Taxidev

41 minutes ago, Modgellan said:

I believe you have to be FB friends with JAL to see it?

Yes, that was it.  He accepted my friend request today so I could see it all.

2 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Dictor NEVER read ANY of Ernest Martin’s work! He was too dumb, just like his C- performance at Lakeland Mission House College years before. As usual he had to have Walter do everything on it and always had Cummins, Schoenheit, and Crouch to translate and explain anything dic said he wanted to know “more about”. He never even read the final manuscript, and the only thing in the entire book he wrote was the dedication at the beginning. That’s it!! THAT’S also why there won’t be any “VPW’s steps” to trace anywhere on this book. There weren’t any!! LOL!

This is disgusting!  It churns my stomach to read this.  To think I was impressed at all the work VPW put into this book...

On 6/10/2018 at 2:40 PM, DontWorryBeHappy said:

the damn thing is 13 pages long! I think you’ll have much more fun reading the comments!

I read much of one interchange in those comments, particularly between you and Michael.  That was interesting.

I don't know about anyone else here, but when you share history from your first-hand view, I really appreciate it, even though at times I am appalled by it.

8 hours ago, TrustAndObey said:

I'll attach a document I've used at times when discussing this topic (OSAS).

That's quite a list!  It has done NOTHING to help clarify, for me, whether salvation is permanent or not.  It looks, at first look, that it can go either way.  And so...

3 hours ago, WordWolf said:

the verses saying "conditional" are addressing one thing consistently, and the verses saying "unconditional" are addressing something else consistently.

I agree with WordWolf.  Now to try to determine what those different things are.

26 minutes ago, shortfuse said:

Anyone know where the Craigers got this teaching?

I wasn't at HQ, but my understanding was that because Craig was extremely homophobic, he may have determined that himself, as a way of fending off potential homosexuals from entering the ranks - let it be known right up front TWI doesn't accept that stuff.  As many resources as I have looked at over the years, I have never seen even a hint of this interpretation of Gen 3 anywhere.

And what we on the field were told as to why it was removed from the next version of the class was that it was too much for new people to handle.  But I suspect it was because Rosie and her girlfriend didn't want it there.

43 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Just go to John Lynn’s FB Page. You’ll see it.

I'm on his page now, and I don't see it.  I scrolled all the way back to 2016.  Maybe the whole thread was deleted?

11 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Here’s a link to the earth-shattering debate between two Biblical morons that is affecting about a thousand people around the world.

The FB link seems to be broken.

2 hours ago, chockfull said:

It was always a condescending discussion.

More like a condescending preaching.

6 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

That’s how he is aware of both dictor and da forehead.

I actually met Craig once, at a word in business special in Dallas, TX.  He's really tall!  I guess his body needs to be that big to house all that ego.

9 hours ago, WordWolf said:

BTW, anyone who wants the full text of the article and lives in the US, they might be able to get it.

Or if anyone wants to read Martin's work directly, here is the link.

6 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Dictor and Da Forehead!

Could be a comic tragedy.

8 hours ago, Rocky said:

Didn't you just today claim (on another thread) that you had never been exposed to VP?

I meant in person.  Sorry, I left that qualifier out.

But I do understand that all of his collaterals, his other books, and that one class is plenty of exposure.

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

To build churches, fellowships, and a way corpse that would actually be better described without the letter "e" in the title, would have to honor the students with the dignity of allowing them to think... critically. The approach is called, Socratic. The student is actively engaged and CHALLENGES the teacher. But if the teacher cannot cope with that kind of student, you get cults instead.

Perfect.

I was recently doing a study on the tithe, and came across some works by Ernest L Martin.  For anyone who is not acquainted with his work, you can find his name in "JCOPS".  He isn't actually cited there, but at least he's in the bibliography.  I think I've mentioned this somewhere here at GSC before.

But, I just remembered hearing in a class - I can't remember if VP or Craig was the teacher - something to the effect of "through computers and astronomy we have determined the exact date of the birth of Jesus Christ".  Not an actual quote.  I was thinking the phraseology implied that TWI determined this, and that is exactly what I had thought when I first heard this.  Now I find it was actually Ernest Martin who figured this out, and published his findings quite a while before TWI put it in a class.

Does anyone else remember hearing this concept in a class?

5 hours ago, skyrider said:

maybe, these guys truly believe that wierwille had it going on........right doctrine, right practice, right on before God Almighty.  Could it be that these guys are SO INDOCTRINATED and INSTITUTIONALIZED that they've lost all grasp of critical thinking?

5 hours ago, skyrider said:

All in all, I think it's about.....

1. Saving Face
2. Being Unrepentant
3. Establishing a lane to run in during retirement
4. Desiring to be the lead dog

I'm inclined to think it's a combination of these two lines of thought.  Not within a particular individual, but among the individuals, some one way and some the other.  But it's difficult to determine who goes which way.

Either way, to blindly vomit out what VP vomited doesn't do good for others, or themselves.  They have been continuing to hold VP on a pedestal, declaring how they loved this teaching, or that teaching, or how they miss hearing such and such.  I feel fortunate that I wasn't exposed to him.

11 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

MS evidence

What is MS?

13 minutes ago, waysider said:

By reversing the chronology, it puts more weight on the words of Paul than the words of Jesus, which was probably the intent of those establishing the sequencing of the canon.

I would have thought it was to have the life of Jesus presented before the life of Paul, since that was the actual sequence.

Can someone explain this:  Under my user name in my posts, I see the phrase "Thinks Raf is a weatherman" and under that is 4 dots. 

How does that get there?  And what do the dots signify?

The other information I understand.

On 5/27/2018 at 9:01 PM, skyrider said:

Keeping on the railroad tracks of wierwille............Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, and others want to keep the locomotive churning down those tracks.  They can't abandon wierwille or else they lose the indoctrinated-followers that are institutionalized to the cult lifestyle and nostalgia.  Warts, sexual predator and all.......they can't stop riding on his coattails.  Else, they'd have to look in the mirror and SEE WHAT UTTER FAILURES THEY'VE BECOME.

sky, what a crystal clear picture you have drawn with these words.  I believe this paragraph, more than anything else I have seen here at GSC concerning the R&R group founders, explains the response we received to my email of issues from some of you here. 

All I can do is hang my head, shaking it lightly, in utter disappointment.  I have many friends involved with them.  I am not actually involved, but I do listen to the phone teachings.  My interest in them is severely diminished.

"Warts, sexual predator and all.......they can't stop riding on his coattails."  Yes, they all seem to be doing that, including my friends.

2 hours ago, chockfull said:

Let me regale you about the time I forgot to put my knife down while taking a bite.

OMG!!!

8 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Ever consider that twi pushed this "only read the Epistles" thing, and left out a LOT?  The Gospels were not "written aforetime". THE GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN AFTER PENTECOST. ACTS WAS WRITTEN AFTER PENTECOST.

And how is this related to Paul?

1 hour ago, TLC said:

Who thinks or says that the best that anyone ever has or can receive is "the promise" of salvation?

That is a really great catch - I didn't see it.  Thank you!

On 12/15/2016 at 9:51 AM, skyrider said:

If you read these documents.......

WARNING:  The words cannot be unread......the visual imagery cannot be unseen.

I just read most of them.  Insanity on steroids is an appropriate name.  While I did experience the dining room rules when I was at the advanced class, I really didn't think much of it.  But reading it a moment ago I was thinking how completely anal and absurd it all was!  I can't put my napkin on my lap until the table coordinator does?!?!

16 hours ago, WordWolf said:

you're so locked into one or 2 things and only those, and trying to see if the answer is A or if the answer is B, while others are trying to present answers C-E.

So, do you think the answer to the question "Can salvation be lost?" can be something besides yes or no?

16 hours ago, WordWolf said:

The phrase "born again" is in I Peter 1:23, John 3:3  and John 3:7.

Yes, but TLC and I were looking at Paul's writings, which didn't have it.  Only 1 Peter 1:23.  I know, that's not Paul either, but Romans is where I had begun my search, since that is Paul.