Nathan_Jr

What is the Word that replaces the absent Christ? Apparently this is a very difficult and complex question! (The Logos of the opening chapter in John is complex, esoteric, but that's not the Word I'm asking about. Unless it is, and I just don't know it yet.)

Right. So, I let you cut through the ambiguity of "the Bible" and establish a definition when I asked, simply: What is the Word? My response to your answer: "I'm really trying to get down to it. I feel like I've been asking some simple questions. Some open, but many closed. I'm really trying to be direct. I'm sure you'll correct me, if I get this wrong. Please do. So, the Word is NOT the Bible, nor in the Bible. The Word is NOT PFAL, collaterals, critical texts, etc., nor in those. The Word is NOT something there automatically. The Word is created in the mind - a product of thought. Very simply: The Word is the content of a conditioned mind? The content built by programming through research of the Bible, which is not itself the Word? The Word is built in the mind through quasi-academic research? It doesn't exist on its own. It's something constructed in the mind? So, when victor says, "The word, the word, and nothing but the word," he could have just as accurately said, "The contents of your indoctrinated mind, the contents of your indoctrinated mind, and nothing but the contents of your indoctrinated mind!" Or, "The word of god is the will of god." = "Your conditioned mind trained according to these research principles is the will of god." Or, "Study the word much." = "Study your conditioned mind much." Simple. Keep it simple. Direct. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is the above what you mean?" ======== THEN you clarified. It sounds like the Word is scripture. But not the Bible? Where do I find the Word to study it? Didn't victor open PFAL with something like: The greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible is the Word of God? I'm paraphrasing.

Please answer my questions about the Word.

Word salad? It sounds like the Word that replaces the absent Christ is an opinion formulated in the mind through "research." A pretty flimsy replacement for Christ.

I'm really trying to get down to it. I feel like I've been asking some simple questions. Some open, but many closed. I'm really trying to be direct. I'm sure you'll correct me, if I get this wrong. Please do. So, the Word is NOT the Bible, nor in the Bible. The Word is NOT PFAL, collaterals, critical texts, etc., nor in those. The Word is NOT something there automatically. The Word is created in the mind - a product of thought. Very simply: The Word is the content of a conditioned mind? The content built by programming through research of the Bible, which is not itself the Word? The Word is built in the mind through quasi-academic research? It doesn't exist on its own. It's something constructed in the mind? So, when victor says, "The word, the word, and nothing but the word," he could have just as accurately said, "The contents of your indoctrinated mind, the contents of your indoctrinated mind, and nothing but the contents of your indoctrinated mind!" Or, "The word of god is the will of god." = "Your conditioned mind trained according to these research principles is the will of god." Or, "Study the word much." = "Study your conditioned mind much." Simple. Keep it simple. Direct. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is the above what you mean?

What is the Word?

Todd Snider is so underrated.

So, the Word of God is the Bible as interpreted and corrected back to the original, according to victor? This Word is what Jesus had in his mind before he met John the baptizer? And later, the contents of his mind were accurately revealed in PFAL, collaterals, etc.? This is what replaces Jesus the Christ, who is absent? The contents of his mind, which is the Bible, corrected accurately by victor?

OMG! ROTFLMAO!

So the Word is not the written word. It's not the Bible, it's not a theological commentary, it's not PFAL? It's something in the mind? Something different from the Christ within, the holy spirit.

Waysider, I've learned that if you are pretty sure, I can be pretty sure. HOWEVER, doesn't the Hayflick limit contradict victor's claim that no one dies until one stops believing, and the cessation of believing only comes when one gets too tired to believe anymore?

Allegedly, according to his tombstone, his last narcissistic "poor me" plea, he couldn't be honest, even if he knew to be honest. He could only wish to be honest. I wonder why God didn't reveal to the Christ within victor to reveal to his mind to motivate his walk to be honest?

He did the same thing when Dr. Higgins called him out for preaching like Bullinger wrote. So embarrassed and afraid of being found out as a plagiarizing fraud, he played dumb and presented it all as a REMARKABLE COINCIDENCE, one that independently validated his teaching. (Error verified by error?) This is a textbook narcissistic cop out ruse. If anyone believes any of these REMARKABLE COINCIDENCES, please reach out. I've got some property to sell you.

"The Word takes the place of the absent Christ." So, Christ isn't absent at all. Christ is within. I brought this up very early in this thread. HOWEVER, Jesus, the Nazarene, the anointed, the perfect human being, God's only begotten is obviously absent in the sense that no one could expect to run into him at Starbucks. Sure. I don't think this is the issue. What seems to be missing from this parsing is the subtle nuance of the implications of the proposition: The Word take the place of the absent Christ. (Maybe this should have been phrased more accurately according to mathematical usage: The Word takes the place of Jesus, the Nazarene.) MOREOVER, what is this Word that replaces God's only begotten? Is it the Bible? God's perfect only begotten is replaced with... the Bible? A book put together hundreds of years later by hundreds of editors, redactors, interpolators, scribes? And not rightly divided for another 1000 years when Darby, Bullinger, and victor showed up? victor said the word is the ministry and the ministry is the word. What is this ministry? Obviously, it is The Way International, Inc. Or, is this not obvious?

John Prine?

What kind of man did he know to be? Why couldn't he be this man? Was it his lack of believing faith? Did he spit in the face of revelation when he got it? Or did he just not know how (H-O-W) to get revelation to be the man he knew to be? Or was he too afraid, too full of fear to be that man, whatever that man would be? Why couldn't he just renew his mind to be that man? Did he not know how (H-O-W) to renew his mind?

Thanks, Word Wolf. The KJV is what I was raised on, and I find many of the Elizabethan phrasings spine-shivering in their beauty. Some passages just can't be rendered so exquisitely in any other English idiom. Just knee-bucklingly beautiful! MOREOVER, as an English major, I have a special affinity for that version. With that being said, it is the absolute WORST study Bible, in my opinion. One can use it to study, but one should have a subscription to the OED - extremely useful! So many words in Elizabethan English don't mean today what they did then. Like the word STUDY! I studied French, Spanish and Latin in high school; Latin, Italian and Spanish in college. I'm no expert. Ive forgotten more Latin than most will ever know. I know just enough to know how much I don't know. So, I know something about translation and interpretation of foreign languages. I know that most idioms cannot be translated literally without corrupting the original, intended meaning - hence, the italics. Really, to understand how (H-O-W) the KJV committee made translation decisions and used italics, read the preface. Translation and interpretation is an art and science. I never studied Greek until I took the class. And I still know very little, but I probably know more than victor ever did. And what I don't know, I know how (H-O-W) to find out.

The NASB and RSV utilize the oldest and best manuscripts. What's your problem with those versions?

I'm buying dinner to make it easy on you boys - it was my idea to come here instead of Chili's. Somehow, I arrived at this song via Human's Kris Kristofferson reference. "Well, when you're sitting there in your silk upholstered chair Talking to some rich folk that you know I hope you won't see me in my ragged company Cause you know I could never be alone Take me down little Susie take me down Cause I know you think you're the Queen of the Underground You can send me dead flowers every morning Send me dead flowers by the mail Send me dead flowers to my wedding And I won't forget to put roses on your grave Well, when you're sitting back in your rose pink Cadillac Making bets on your Kentucky derby days I'll be in my basement room with a needle and a spoon With another girl to take my pain away Take me down little Susie take me down Cause I know you think you're the Queen of the Underground Send me dead flowers every morning Send me dead flowers by the mail Send me dead flowers to my wedding And I won't forget to put roses on your grave Take me down little Susie take me down Cause I know you think you're the Queen of the Underground You can send me dead flowers every morning Send me dead flowers by the mail Send me dead flowers to my wedding And I won't forget to put roses on your grave"

What about the NASB and RSV? FYI. Paul wasn't accurate about EVERYTHING. But he sure thought he was.

But you aren't. I don't know what you were taught. That's why I'm asking the questions. What do you think the Bible says about it? The absent paradise? Go ahead.

I've asked multiple times. If you don't know or they are rhetorical questions, just say so.

Can YOU? victor hated questions, too. My fellowship/PFAL leader hated questions, also. He probably couldn't hear my questions over his own "mmmmmphs!" Why do those who pretend to know how (H-O-W) to teach, those who fetishize teaching, those who fetishize leading, hate questions?

It seems "Christ" has multiple meanings. I can accept this. Three meanings. A TRINITY of meanings. A trinity of Christs, in a way. Some concepts are just too complex or deep or esoteric that they require nuanced, paradoxical models to illustrate meaning. "The Word" has many more than three meanings.

What did victor believe the answers to be?