WordWolf

If it was really Don's idea, I see there as being exactly three possible reasons

for him thinking of it:

A) As the only man left alive whom vpw ripped off, he wanted the chance for any one of

them to attend, thinking that they were entitled to attend, for some noble reason.

B) lcm was already drifting into his fog, and Don concluded that the fastest way to get

him out was to introduce another Christian leader, and let lcm's jealousy, envy,

possessiveness and pettiness drag him out of his lethargy.

Unless lcm was ALREADY in his fog, this isn't likely.

Was lcm ALREADY in his fog in August 1985?

C) Don KNEW that Leonard was the real deal. Don KNEW who really taught the class

vpw passed off as his own. Don KNEW that Leonard was the man he knew himself

to be. Don KNEW that Leonard was the real deal.

Don ALSO knew that lcm's main claims to leadership were a history of embracing anything

vpw said, and an ability to shout like some high school coach.

Compare the two side-by-side, and it's obvious which Christian any OBJECTIVE Christian

would call a "teacher" and which they would call a "student."

So Don may have brought him in as "the man who could save the ministry" by being the

man everyone looked to-which would lead sooner or later into him being the official

leader by acclamation.

Anyone see any other possibilities?

Someone asked about this subject yesterday....

I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of.

Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings? I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective".

Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms. Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.

I heard mr.wierwille say those very same things as well...

It was my best friend to whom VP informed her "Hitler had the right idea" about the jews - i.e., get rid of them. She was stunned.<BR><BR>

VP was a white supremist. He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington D.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines." <BR><BR>

Where do you think all of VP's inside info on the illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Rothschild banking, Council of Foreign Affairs - all the "secret" conspiracy stuff VP shared at the advanced class came from? Right from the Liberty Lobby.

I still have my "Secret Constitution" he passed out to all of us 7th corps. On the inside of the back page is a form to subscribe to the Spotlight, which is their magazine.

Remember in '76 we saved the country from a crisis? He was listening to the hotline.

Remember he had the "inside" info on the Jim Jones Koolaid suicide - that it was really a CIA plot - that too came from his hotline.

Remember when Bob Richardson, the olympic champion and Wheatie box star came and spent and afternoon and talked to the WC at corps week? Normally if someone well known went to fellowship, we were all made aware. Here comes this famous guy out of the blue to talk. Well, Bob was the Populist Party candidate for US president that year (the Populist Party is the Liberty Lobby's party). Kind of bold having the white supremist candidate come talk to us. He had to have some pull, or financial clout to get Bob out into a cornfield.

Have you ever seen the outline of Hitler's Nazi Youth program - how to train the young master race? I have. The WC was incredibly similar.

VP would have made a wonderful, loyal nazi, had he lived in another place and time.

I discussed this also with R.D. He told me VP had him almost believing all jews were "Zionist pigs." VP, as Danny pointed out, did sell those books, I read them. They were on sale in the bookstore for all to read. By the way, guess who publishes them? Again, the Liberty Lobby press. I forget what name it goes by. there's only one place you can get those particular books.

Whether you agree or not, VP was an admirer of Hitler. Whether you agree or not, VP thought Hitler had the right idea concerning the jews. Whether you agree or not, he was a white supremist.

One of his top right hand motorcoach driver aides told me he used the "hotline" quite a bit. So did another staffer close to him. I think Liberty Lobby updated the hotline weekly.

Hi Captain Spiritual. I know, its sad. I know, in Revelation, at the end of the wrath, when Christ comes back and mankind is about to enter the millenial era, the nations are divided. This division is all based on how they treated the Jews during the tribulation. Those nations who treated them well, enter into the 1000 years of peace where the earth will give forth abundantly. Those who hated and persecuted them, enter into the abyss to await the final, great resurrection and judgment.

'Sunesis' are you saying that all true History ALL history centers around the Nation of Isarel? throughout the many Biblical Adminstrations?

No, she said the answer to YOUR QUESTION was related to that.

(If she does think all true history reflects that, she hasn't posted it.)

Its hard for me to believe that Dr.Wierwille was geting info from those groups(hate groups)

A number of people on-site were well aware he was on their mailing lists,

and had a hotline he would call periodically for information, and so on.

That's where "revelation" like the 1976 takeover of the US came from,

and twi's Y2K PANIC, and the "the Pope has an aircraft carrier" garbage

under lcm and on and on....

Did not God promise Dr.Wierwille that he (GOD) would teach him the Word? not like or since 1st Cent Church?

If God Commssion him why would a man of such ability open up to Hate Groups? or believe senses ethnic bs base on hate?

Correct-

God did not promise vpw.

First of all, vpw's report of what happened that day in 1943 was never spoken until the early 1970s.

NEVER to anyone else.

Not even the Mrs the day it happened.

Second of all, his accounts of what happened that day kept changing-

what he said to God, whether or not he demanded proof,

how it looked when he saw snow.... all those changed in different accounts.

Third of all, the claim was that God would teach vpw God's Word like it hadn't been known

since the First Century", which is a claim that is dependent upon the hearer being as

ignorant of "First Century" history as vpw was and presumed his hearers to be.

In the First Century AD- before Gutenberg invented his printing press-

God's Word as known was the Torah- the Old Testament.

It wasn't until the SECOND Century AD that enough handwritten copies of the

New Testament Gospels, Letters, Acts and Revelation were distributed for Christians

to "know" them. What vpw taught didn't reflect their lack of copies of the New

Testament. Either he invented that claim, or the promise came from an ignorant god.

Fourth of all, vpw didn't teach the First Century church in ACTION.

REALLY look at Acts sometime.

They were SHORT on documentation. REALLY short on books.

There was a lot of prayer, considerable deliverance, and a level of NORMAL miracles

everyday such that the SPECIAL miracles with Paul went beyond them.

Authority was de-centralized, money was distributed among the poor as they

had need, everything was local, nothing was official, the few "leaders" travelled,

dealt with things in a "hands-on" fashion, and lived simply.

Compare that to twi.

HEAVY on reading, reading, reading. Deliverance levels painfully shy of Acts.

Authority was all concentrated to vpw, money funnelled to vpw- even when he had

to trash the Way East and Way West and stop local use of cash to do it.

LITTLE was local, EVERYTHING was official, the "leaders" stay in one spot

and enjoy their luxuries as you travel to them on your dime, and their

involvement is anything but personal- just a handful of verses, and some

micro-management.

Fifth of all,

the supposed promise was predicated on the concept that there was information

that was UNKNOWN from 101 AD- 1943, and God Almighty would supply

that information to vpw.

Few people who've been at the GSC awhile can't trace the sources of vpw's

information. Some came from BG Leonard and his class, some came from

JE Stiles, his book and his direct teaching, some came from EW Bullinger's

books, some came from EW Kenyon and his books.

(If you used your initials, vpw would plagiarize freely from you.)

EVERYTHING HE TAUGHT WAS ALREADY KNOWN AS OF 1943.

So, this supposed "god" who promised him this should have known better.

The supposed 1943 promise was a complete fabrication,

composed of lie upon lie, predicated upon error, and propounded by the

ignorance and high degree of trust of his naive listeners.

(Those who want proof, SCROLL UP AND READ THE LAST SEVERAL

PARAGRAPHS.)

Last question has God turned his back on these Groups ... The WAY,CES,CFF etc etc ...?

Do you think the Church Age is coming to an end?

The dismanlting of these group is it a result of God's disapproval of how people were abused over the decades?

that God works with ANY "GROUP" as such. If there's Christians IN a group, God works

with the Christians in that group.

I don't think God's approached any Christian organization like he approached the nation

of Israel and made a solemn covenant which he will honor (despite their rebellion)

for His own names' sake.

IS the Church Age coming to an end?

It's ALWAYS been coming to an end.

God will end it in his own time- be that in 20 minutes, 20 months, or 20 millenia.

But every minute, we are closer to the end of that age, and to the Apocalypse.

This affects nothing- you should be doing the same no matter which timeframe God's

got in the works.

"Jesus is coming- look busy."

Capt. S.

That whole scenario about God teaching Wierwille The Word like it hadn't been known for 2,000 years is a lengthy and disheartening path to explore. He took these "new" truths ( in some cases "word for word") from the likes of B.G. Leonard, Stiles,Bullinger,etc.,etc. The PFAL class, the Holy Spirit book, the figures of speech study,even the characters of Maggie Muggins and Henry Bulloco were "lifted" from the works of others who came before him. Hence, "Like it hadn't been known" was an outright fabrication. There is a ton of information here related to that very subject. I am not very proficient at helping someone navigate this site. If there is something in particular you would like to find, I'm sure you only need ask directions.

Waysider

It is hard to believe that there could be more than a few hundred people left.

Actually, it's shocking that there is anyone left at all.

Well, they progressively ran off all the people who WANT to think for

themselves every few years, intentionally or no.

Those they have left are the "diehards" the ones that won't escape even with a

ropeladder lowered from a flying chariot being driven by Jesus Christ himself.

They're either convinced they're gaining benefits worth the hassle,

which won't vanish in the wind,

or they're afraid the world outside twi is worse than the world INSIDE twi.

I know someone who is still in... they keep telling me its a MUCH friendlier and more relaxed atmosphere. What kind of endorsement is that? "It's a lot better than it used to be." That's the best you can give me?

Okay, so now you are allowed to schedule your own time, own your own house, and plan your own vacation. As far as I can tell, they never admitted restricting all those things was bad in the first place, so what has really changed?

For people who will stay no matter what happens, I guess the changes are a good thing. But I'm not buying it. It's all surface and no substance. I mean, you can cover horse turds with chocolate but it doesn't make them good to eat.

Yes, it's approaching all the freedoms the rest of the Christian world enjoys.

But supposedly, it's still better than all the rest.

Here, have some Kool-Aid.

Preacher,

are you part of some religious order or something that requires you to cut-and-paste the

EXACT SAME WORDS FOR SEVERAL PARAGRAPHS for the first 1/2 of

EVERY SINGLE POST you make here?

You can shove all that into your profile, or in a "my story" thread,

and post a link to it for the curious.

Otherwise, you're discouraging people from reading the whole post,

especially since they've read it before.

Since you thought it was important enough to post, I expect you'd consider it important

enough to read. Posting it the way you're doing now is interfering with that.

And whether or not I agree with you on anything, I don't want anything interfering

with whether or not I can read your posts properly.

Yes – I see your point, Oak…VPW acted like a Christian publicly…privately he schemed and behaved like a sexual predator.

If I read Oak's observation correctly, Pagans behaved a lot better than vic..

:)

Well, the ones I've known do....

Both in internal consistency, and in not committing felonies and just

trying not to get caught.

Lone Wolf, I agree with you.

In fact, I was thinking about Cyrus in regard to VPW just the other day as well. It's been 20 years since I left TWI. I've thought more about it in the past week or two since joining GS cafe than I have in quite a while. (I was in for 13 years, Corps, married to clergy etc.) I feel like the passage of time and God's gracious faithfulness to heal has put a perspective on my experiences in TWI. If God can use a pagan king (BTW I believe that if you study Persian history Cyrus was just as bloodthirsty and ruthless as the rest of the Persian rulers) or Balaam's donkey, He can use anyone and anything for His purposes. I'm not trying to defend VPW here or say whether or not he was a true believer, I'll let God judge him on that score. I can and do pray for mercy.

I'll agree with all of that.

Anyway, I was genuinely born-again during PFAL. I confessed Romans 10:9, 10 and spoke in tongues during the class. I was raised Catholic, but by the time I took the class at age 16 in 1974, I was a professing atheist. I was not born again until I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Saviour in PFAL. I consider most of the rest of what was taught in that class highly suspect but I have to give it credit. My life changed and no I longer spent my time partying but genuinely started seeking God. I had a new sense of adventure. Many of the experiences I had on the WOW field and in res WC were just plain great adventures and I think I'm a better person for them. I never would have had those experiences if not for TWI. All in all I have to say that my life is better for having been in. Again, I'm not trying to minimize the bad experiences many have had and I did have some bad ones too. But I can't imagine that my life would have been better without them.

You received benefit, and acknowledge not everyone did.

That matches my own experience in both respects.

Again, I'm not trying to defend the sin and deception that ran deep in TWI. When I became aware of the fact of VP's and Martindale's sexual and control habits I left. It was traumatic to find out something that you had thought was so good was not. But God is bigger than any man or organization. I do believe that God touched my life and called me serve Him. When I went into the Way Corps I made a solemn vow to God to serve Him with my life, I gave it to Him completely and I was devastated when I thought that I had made a worthless vow. Then by God's grace He showed me that He wasn't done with me and He allowed me to continue to serve Him. I'm sure there are many of my fellow TWI brothers and sisters with a similar perspective.

A number of ex-corps have said much the same, and it's comparable to what

many of us non-corps have said.

I also met my dear husband of 25 years in the Way Corps and many lifelong friends. I feel a connection to all who were in TWI whether I knew them or not and it's great to reconnect with some old friends and acquaintances here and make some new ones.

So thanks Lone Wolf for a great observation!

I agree about the acquaintances, and I agree it's of benefit to discuss new ideas,

even when I disagree with the conclusion.

Therefore, I find this thread of merit either way.

Since I'm a guy, I didn't meet a husband anywhere, so I can't match your

experience on that one.

Hi Lone Wolf,

Societal approved sex can be a god to some people,

For those arriving late, the standard in God's Word that advocates things like NO SEX IF YOU'RE NOT

MARRIED TO THE PERSON, and ONLY MARRY ONE SPOUSE,

which 99.999999% of the Christian world has no difficulty understanding

(whether or not they actually OBEY this, they understand they're acting against Scripture)

has been transformed in Mikean theology.

There, the injunctions which were even given in the CFS class by vpw HIMSELF

are morphed into a "societal-cultural" set of rules rather than Biblical ones.

Why do they suddenly lose their authoritative status?

Well,

Mikean theology is all about elevating books with vpw's name on them, and tapes with

vpw teaching on them- and downgrading any actual BIBLES in comparison.

The word of vpw is the NEW word of God, and the word of the creating thing has

replaced the Word of the Creator, and labelled accordingly as the word of that

Creator.

In the process, vpw gets elevated to the status of a demigod, someone who strides

the earth and shapes destiny, someone, who, to quote Mike directly, was

"born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", someone "overgifted",

someone who "when he walked, the earth shook."

(Those are direct quotes, mind you, not ironic paraphrases.)

So, vpw has to be ABSOLVED or EXONERATED of all evil deeds he performed.

So, when vpw did something, and the Bible disapproved, according to Mikean theology,

THEN THE BIBLE IS WRONG AND VPW IS RIGHT.

Having been unable to wish away all the accounts of the witness and victims,

and unable to justify the rapes, questionably-consensual sex initiated by vpw,

and the drugged rapes as "attempts to toughen up the corps spiritually",

Mike has labelled them as perfectly-acceptable behaviour,

which means vpw was right, which makes the Bible WRONG.

Therefore, when God says "don't have sex with your brother's wife",

Mike labels that a societal rule, not a rule from God,

and the injunctions get downgraded to "societal-approved sex".

Since some people keep claiming things like

"vpw never did it", "the women all wanted it", "it was for their own good",

the more conscientious GSC posters feel it is necessary to wade into the

same tired-old discussions and point out, once again,

that vpw's actions were sinful.

It gets tiresome to have to keep reposting on the same subject-

but some people are determined to whitewash the truth,

and rewrite both the past and the present,

sacrificing truth to salve their own conscience.

In the case of the Mikean belief system,

"societal-approved sex" is not a god, but vpw-worship IS.

Thus the need to turn God's instructions into a society-based set of rules

and removing God Almighty from the picture.

and other people can embrace a god of societal recognition that copyrights entail. Some people love BOTH of these false gods.

vpw's criminal actions-including the felonies of multiple plagiarisms-

perfectly acceptable activities.

After attempts to say vpw never plagiarized, and that it was acceptable for scholars

to do so went flat, he went on to "God told him to plagiarize", which is where he's at now.

Since some people-like Mike-keep insisting either that vpw didn't plagiarize, or that

it's perfectly acceptable or persist in perpetuating completely false meanings of

plagiarism,

it becomes necessary for the more conscience-driven GSC posters to repost and

set the record straight, over and over and over...

monotonous, but with posters (often the SAME posters) keep acting to popularize

falsehoods, it becomes necessary to repost to keep things honest.

vpw went out of his way to violate copyrights AND to plagiarize on a grand scale,

while making sure all "his" books had copyright notices on them.

That's illegal AND hypocritical.

However, since vpw did it, Mike has to "anoint" it as holy and sacred-

so long as vpw did it.

Mike thinks it's idolatry to report the truth about vpw's plagiarism,

but that it's NOT idolatry to consider vpw's "writings" sacred, and his actions

sacrosanct. Thus, his claim that OTHERS have made false gods-

of reporting rapes and reporting plagiarism-

fall a little flat in the ears of many people even slightly familiar with

Mikean theology.

For those who operate under the umbrella of these gods, their regard for what is a sin against these gods (and what these gods represent) is that such sin is totally unforgivable.

For Mike, who operates under the umbrella of vpw reverencing and devotion,

his regard for what is any criticism of vpw, no matter what the evidence and the

backing of Holy Scripture-

is that such criticism is a sin and totally unforgiveable.

LoneWolf, these people cannot be reached with your reasonable appeal. Their gods won't allow it.

(ignoring all the historical/archeological data of the last CENTURY), and vpw's "books"

as a new Bible, Mke will consider you unreachable with any "reasonable appeal."

His gods won't allow any other position.

I see some value in civilized, loving, and thoughtful sexual practices and customs, and I also see some value in academic and marketplace copyrights.

In other words, if vpw did it, it was ok. If it contradicted what vpw did,

it's not civilized, loving or thoughtful.

Oh, and vpw stamps a copyright on plagiarized materials, that's fine.

vpw plagiarizes materials of others, that's fine.

Plagiarizing vpw, now THAT'S wrong.

And it's time for the commercial...

However, I see GREAT value in masterfully absorbing the final product, written PFAL, that God produced for us grads by the hand of VPW along with his accomplished team of editors.

We could add Balaam, Saul, David, Solomon to the list of sinners with whom God worked, as I have here often.

VPW admitted to have not risen up to the fullness of what the PFAL revelations teach, but that doesn’t mean WE can’t manifest that fullness, as we drop our false gods, and as we seriously look at that written final product of VPW’s legacy.

The books:

"The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", by Arthur R. Butz,

"The Myth of the Six Million," by David L. Hoggan,

"The Thirteenth Tribe, " by Arthur Koestler.

I was being taught something like this not long ago at the gulag, it was phrased differently, and they said it came from a book by Colin Powell.

I call "shenanigans" on that.

They were saying that back when nobody'd ever HEARD of Colin Powell.

And a search for this saying or anything like it came up blank.

The copyright on his only book is 1996.

Which means vpw, who died in 1985, was quoting a book that came out

11 years after he died.

Neat trick.

Bushwah, I say.

Greetings to you in the name of Jesus Christ my lord.

I have recently taken the Way International's new foundational class entitled, "The way of abundance and power". If it was available our father in the word, Dr Victor Paul Wierwille would have turned over in his grave.

I was born again of God's spirit October,10th 1979,spoke in tougues 3 months later, took Power for Abundant living in 1983, and was in the way corps, but failed to graduate .Then left the Way, but failed to reinstate my felloship with God.

Recently, as I was watching a minister on tv, it was clear that God was calling me back home,then in Febuary I contacted the Way thinking that it was home to Gods people, I was wrong.

My web search turned up the greasespot, and I thought I'd add a bit.

If you stick around, maybe review some of the past threads, and ask some questions

politely (some people are willing to ask questions, but only in nasty, accusatory tones,

then get surprised when people don't fall all over themselves trying to help),

you can learn a lot.

There's a sticky with a welcome and advice for new arrivals. I recommend it.]

For those of us operating the 9 manifetsations of the spirit it is clear as a bell how headquarters has turned from the living God to idols and opened the door for devil spirits to enter in and take control.

During the class which I graduated I almost got up and walked out when Da$id Cha$isty began to teach at the 8th session, but I decided to give the people there the benefit of the doubt and sit through the 8th-12th sessions by basically ignoring the teaching and reading my Bible.

I prayed to God to contine to protect me from the doctrines of devils and open my eyes to see the picture being presented, and He did.

During my 3 years in the way corps, I was out of fellowship with God, and none of my leaders had the ability to get me back there!

Reverend M$rt$dale got busted screwing other women a number of years ago, and the media got wind of the last one when he was still president and threatened to expose the Way as a fake. The Way then "payed off" the people suing them for defamation of character, in order to keep the sin of Cr$$g quiet. This is bribery in the basic biblical sense and opens the door for the host of heaven to enter in to rack and ruin Gods precious people.

My fellowship coordinater had definate spiritual problems and I dont want to continue with these spiritual whores.

there WERE problems, so it might not be the total shock it is for a lot of people.

(It was a total shock for ME, for one...)

Also, ironically, Dr. Wierwilles book, "Power for Abundant Living " is no longer available at the WAY and they left out 4 crucified in the class; amongst many other things. They cut the time from the 68 class of 36 hours down to 24 hours using scripture of course for the change, the good old brevity of time reason, lol. And the reason or as I put it "the excuse to slap God and his son Jesus Christ in the face", is that they have "new research"!!!! You tell me, what is wrong with Dr. Wierwilles class of 1967-68?

If you REALLY want an answer to that last question,

kindly make a NEW thread and make that the subject.

Giving it the answer it warrants would derail this thread-

and it's serving its OWN purpose.

The God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ honors believing, and I believe.

Make no mistake about it! I am what I am, I have what I have and I will be what I will be NOT by what I have done or will do, but by what Jesus did for me by his torture and death, by the ultimate price that he payed. He loved life and really didnt want to go through what he did.

But God raised him from the dead!

We have been given not only this awesome time of the ages to live in, the age of grace, but the New testament in printed form before us, and because of Dr. wierwille, the understanding of the powerfull word of God.

all available in this forum and across this board.

I recommend looking some of it over.

There's a LOT of surprises.

Yup I went LEAD too, wasnt as bad as yours, I just starved during my duo because I ate the designated food during the hiking previous to the "duo"

Continue to read the book.

Thank you all for your posts. I thought I was the only one for a minute there. I am very glad to be out of TWI.

I think for the first time I see the benefit of this forum in helping people to deal with the repercussions of being in a cult.

I used to think people were here only to bitch about their problems. I was mistaken.

Lone Wolf

We are a versatile community!

We can accomplish BOTH, and more besides!

For example, some of us are also playing games,

and we have a lot of information compiled as well...

:)

Too easy, I suppose....

Well, while we're waiting....

"You're both humble and lovable."

"Bless you, sir."

In NYC, all those worth appointing as leaders took off by the '89 split if not sooner.

Those that remained were relatively few in number,

and were mediocre at best.

"Mediocre at best" is how I categorize twi after '89.

A number of the remaining wits took off before ROA '90,

and I have to wonder if they remained before then as some part of a

long-term exit strategy,

i.e., "get everyone's contact info before leaving" or something.

(snip)

"Military technique----What form?"

Well, we once had a weekend "lockdown" in Fellowlaborers that was designed to break your spirit of individuality via a boot camp like tear down session complete with screaming and public degradation. One person actually "snapped". They considered her outcome a SUCCESS! Of course, in the military, the next step is to build you back up. They seemed to have missed that point.

And there was plenty of isolationism and sleep deprivation. Sound military enough?

Imagine being hauled out of your bed at 2AM and being told to report to a location 30 minutes away within the next 20 minutes.Impossible, of course, but at least you gave it a try. Once there, you are informed you have failed to meet a directive and the entire program you had sold out to has been cancelled because you(as a group) are failures.

But wait there's more. Next morning at sunrise you are informed you are being given another chance. Don't blow it.

I could go on but I think you get the gist of it.

Again, this was during VPW's time but it certainly didn't stop when he died.

I have to point out one extremely significant difference between military training and TWI training. The military values the people it trains. Any military leader that subjected his people to the abuse those LEAD poeple suffered would have been court-martialed. Even lowly boot camp trainees get 6 hours of sleep and 3 hot, hearty meals during most of their training.

I just don't understand where these TWI training programs came from. The training seemed to either scar or make nazis.

nyunknown.....you might want to keep reading.

Just to point out a few things:

Wierwille set up the cult structure and arrogant know-it-all mentality that permeated twi.

Wierwille endorsed "all women belong to the king" and mentored craiggers.

Wierwille set the example of a plagairist, a drunkard, a sexual predator, an unaccountable abuser, etc.

Wierwille corraled the corps program with isolationism, intimidation, fear tactics and death threats.

Wierwille and his inner circle kept the facade of his spirituality from public view.

Men like Peter J. W@de abandoned wierwille in the late 60's.

Wierwille died wishing he'd lived a higher standard.

Need I go on?

I feel the need for a little reminder.

vpw had no background in the military whatsoever.

He claimed he wanted a program patterned after the military, but he had no exposure to the

military, so any training in the corps was not based on any training IN the military.

In fact, in TW:LiL, he said one corps student-who had been in the military-

didn't know how to work, so he considered his program SUPERIOR to the military.

So, what did he use for his military comparison?

He gleaned some things from a handful of movies,

and he liked the ceremonial aspects, the saluting, the obeying orders,

the "yes, sir" to higher-ups.

He came out with "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command",

which never came out of any general's mouth.

So, the so-called "military" aspects of twi came from a handful of fictional sources,

style over substance, demands for loyalty, and a truckload of bs.

This hardly should come as a surprise by now.

vpw cherry-picked anything for an idea he liked, then troweled it into his

structure with lots of manure for a fixative.

THAT's why the corps was woefully inadequate compared even to basic training.

vpw could hardly be bothered to learn the details- he was only interested in

"his" results, which centered around loyalty and ceremony.

Frankly, I think the only reason he never had a uniform issued was because

he would have had to pay for it.

(snip)

Ockham's Razor is a great critical thinking principle – but in my opinion seems to stall out on this topic for several reasons – nothing wrong with the principle…

maybe it's the way we apply it…what data are we plugging in and what data are we ignoring? Much of the relevant biblical data is ambiguous. More specific scriptural evidence can pivot on a viewpoint…

Are we asking the wrong questions? Is this something God has deemed inscrutable?

(snip)

That's pretty much where my thinking's reached so far.

I'm not asking the right questions, and I'm not applying the right data to get the answer.

I'm not obsessed with this, but I'm still looking for a better QUESTION if not a better ANSWER.

And Sudo, apology accepted.

It didn't sound like your normal posts, anyway. (IMO.)

Here's how the quotes broke down:

"What is it?"

"The sound of treachery."

Nemo, in response to Gray's actions.

"We'll be at this all day."

Dorian Gray, immortal, to Mina Harker, vampire, as they dueled, cut each other,

and both healed instantly.

I still keep picturing Johnny Depp as Dorian Gray.

"Empires crumble. There are no exceptions."

Gray, refusing the Fantom's offer to join his regime.

"You're sweet... and you're young. Neither are traits that I hold in high regard."

Mina Harker to Agent Sawyer.

""The empire is in peril."

"You're probably too young to know, but the empire is always in some kind of peril."

Alan Quatermain, responding to a panicked recruiting agent.

"My dear girl, I've buried two wives- and many lovers- and I'm in no mood for more of either."

Alan Quatermain, telling Mina Harker he wasn't flirting with her.

(Nor wanting her as a teammate.)

"They told me European women had funny ways."

Sawyer, after Mina Harker takes out her attacker.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Only slightly better than Traxx.

CORRECT!

About the title, at least.

Starting to sound familiar, but I'm not connecting an episode yet.

"What is it?"

"The sound of treachery."

"We'll be at this all day."

"Empires crumble. There are no exceptions."

"You're sweet... and you're young. Neither are traits that I hold in high regard."

""The empire is in peril."

"You're probably too young to know, but the empire is always in some kind of peril."

"My dear girl, I've buried two wives- and many lovers- and I'm in no mood for more of either."

"They told me European women had funny ways."

"The Count of Monte Cristo"?

George

No.

This movie was in the theaters more recently than that, whenever that was.

Can you share of other experiences wi key personnel

Did other people shared there concerns wi you

What year did this incident take place

Would you consider in going back if not why not?

Mc Quade,

here, have some butter and lemon.

A proper "grilling" just isn't complete without some marinade or something,

and you're definitely getting grilled....

Are there other cases at this website that I can go to and study no no i mean read?

Be prepared to look around.

This site is more "organic" than "mechanical" so you can't just pull casefiles

in seconds.

Is this a close Chapter for you concerning this incident or do you feel you need to confront Mr. Matindale

Was Craig ever a loving and tender Minister ?

Do you think he might have been dealing with a mental sickness?

Why was he so abusive to you guys at hqs? Do you or have you foriven him for that abuse?

Why didnt the people in the Corps confront the evil that was there

What do you think of Christianity Now!

*gets out the A-1 Steak Sauce*

And people in the Corps "confronted the evil that was there" on a number of occassions.

That's why lcm had 4 goons with him to "dialogue" with this guy.

Standard policy at twi: crush dissent utterly, using fear and other methods.

But.. <B><I><font color=maroon>"Some of the evidence I'm working with, you don't have access to."</font></I></B>

I was once where you are now. Give it some time.. LOTS of thought and weigh the evidence that I don't have "access to". But undoubtedly this <B>*is*</B> evidence that every Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu etc.. scholar <B><I>DOES</I></B> have access to? OR perhaps you've got secret documents? <sigh>

<center>sudo</center>

I did you the courtesy of volunteering what I did. I'm not extending it any further.

You were NOT where I am now.

And I'm not sharing my biography online, so you may conclude whatever you wish,

but consider this a closed subject.