WordWolf

Is this that goofy episode where Data becomes possessed by some moon god (or sun god, I can't remember) and Picard plays the opposite role to free him?

George

It's called "MASKS", and yes it is.

For some reason, I have a lot of trouble keeping interest whenever it airs.

But it's your turn.

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music."

"Music?

Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?"

"Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind...

then give them a form."

"Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today."

"More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week."

"What's this?"

"I have no idea."

"Maybe Will left it here... a little present?"

"It's not quite his style."

"Then maybe you've got a secret admirer."

"They must be changing the snacks around here."

"I don't recognize it. "

"Well, whatever you do, don't put it in your mouth......

....This is terrible."

"I like it."

"Then you can have it.. but it's not what I ordered."

"Let's see what they're trying to 'poison you' with...

Wait a minute... this stuff is bio-organic... there are oxygenated cells... serum electrolytes...

This looks like some kind of... blood."

"You're joking."

"I'm serious."

"I'm gonna have a little talk with the bartender."

"It might not be his fault. We should check out the replicator."

"If this really is an archive from some ancient civilization, we should allow it to do so. But we must be careful..."

"This 'library' seems designed to do far more than simply store information. Who

knows how much we could learn from it?"

"I've seen these things all over the ship. They all look the same... primitive and non-functional."

"Ceremonial... and deceptively primitive. Only an advanced technological culture

could have built that object out there. These artifacts must have played a ritualistic role in their society."

"Masaka is waking."

" I'm not "Masaka", Captain...I am Ihat."

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music."

"Music?

Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?"

"Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind...

then give them a form."

"Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today."

"More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week."

"What's this?"

"I have no idea."

"Maybe Will left it here... a little present?"

"It's not quite his style."

"Then maybe you've got a secret admirer."

"They must be changing the snacks around here."

"I don't recognize it. "

"Well, whatever you do, don't put it in your mouth......

....This is terrible."

"I like it."

"Then you can have it.. but it's not what I ordered."

"Let's see what they're trying to 'poison you' with...

Wait a minute... this stuff is bio-organic... there are oxygenated cells... serum electrolytes...

This looks like some kind of... blood."

"You're joking."

"I'm serious."

"I'm gonna have a little talk with the bartender."

"It might not be his fault. We should check out the replicator."

"If this really is an archive from some ancient civilization, we should allow it to do so. But we must be careful..."

"This 'library' seems designed to do far more than simply store information. Who

knows how much we could learn from it?"

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories....9646&EDATE=

"NEW YORK, March 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Scholastic Inc., the global children's publishing and media company, announced today that all 12 million copies of the U.S. edition of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows will be printed on paper that contains a minimum of 30% post-consumer waste (pcw) fiber. Moreover, 65% of the 16,700 tons of paper used in the U.S. first printing will be certified by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), the global standard-setter for responsible forest management. This historic commitment is the largest purchase of FSC certified paper to be used in the printing of a single book title. In addition, the company announced that the deluxe edition of the book (100,000 copies) will be printed on text paper that is FSC certified and contains 100% post-consumer waste fiber. All jackets will be FSC certified and contain 30% post consumer waste and will be manufactured using energy generated from wind power. For future printings of all books in the Harry Potter series, Scholastic plans to use paper with a minimum content of 30% pcw, and that is FSC certified when available. The vast amount of paper needed to print 12 million copies of the 784-page Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows makes the decision by Scholastic to invest in environmentally preferable paper a significant step in the company's ongoing commitment to responsible environmental stewardship. "

That's 784 pages for Book 7.

Orange Book,

pg-29-31.

=========

"Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness

of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady

who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses

which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the

miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore,

hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus,

wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special

powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day."

So,

we have vpw himself praying for the woman, and she was delivered.

Within 24 hours, there was a crowd looking for healing.

And they were non-believers, Hindus, who all just happened to hear about this,

and believed it such that they showed up in a crowd.

Could have happened.

Presuming he prayed and she was delivered.

"They felt that if I just laid my hands on them, they too would be delivered."

I'm unsure of Hindu beliefs in India enough to know if this is typical.

"Just before the train on which we were traveling moved

out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side,

ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately

added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus." "

Supposing this is true,

there was a crowd, and the majority of the people would have been low-caste.

The high-caste guy was willing to shove his way through a crowd of low-caste people,

and thus being in physical contact with them, to shove through them and get to the

front of the group, on the chance that this guy could help him.

Forgive me, I can't picture this guy having the strength to shove through-unless he could

use both arms.

"What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God

will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him,

"Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in

your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ.

When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both

of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little,

he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said,

"Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ." "

So, God was fine with this healing. And it was instant. And vpw was preaching from the back of

the train. And allowed to stand there-WITH A CROWD SURROUNDING THE BACK OF THE TRAIN-

while the train prepared to move. And he was allowed to be in physical contact with someone

on the ground as the train is moving forward.

I just don't think the trains in India are run that badly.

It's too cinematic.

The only thing we're missing is the train whistle and sunlight breaking out from the clouds.

"At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master

who wanted to come and meet the man of God. He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament

in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment

to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event

that he had ever witnessed- that a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were

Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India,

the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's

Word. "

And a guy in the train was able to see what happened completely in the back of the train, with his own

eyes.

And had influence in ALL OF INDIA.

And gave vpw a standing invitation to come minister and teach in ALL OF INDIA.

And gave him the keys to New Delhi based entirely on an incident NOT in New Delhi.

And vpw remembered all this, but never followed up in India despite having an open door.

This sounds scripted to me. And not scripted WELL, either.

The only hitch is the existence of some photos I've never seen,

which depict an incident I've never heard described well.

Orange Book,

pg-29-31.

=========

Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness

of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady

who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses

which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the

miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore,

hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus,

wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special

powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day. They felt that if I just laid

my hands on them, they too would be delivered. Just before the train on which we were travelling moved

out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side,

ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately

added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus."

What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God

will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him,

"Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in

your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ.

When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both

of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little,

he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said,

"Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ."

At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master

who wanted to come and meet the man of God. He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament

in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment

to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event

that he had ever witnessed- that a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were

Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India,

the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's

Word.

===============

I would swear this was taught at the Advanced Class, but it could have been just TWI grapevine info.

Procter & Gamble wins suit concerning logo

Kudos to P&G.

LooKout

Not a newbie, just don't post much.

Let's see.

What happened now.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/...1601131,00.html

"Procter & Gamble Co. has won a jury award of $19.25 million in a civil

lawsuit filed against four former Amway distributors accused of

spreading false rumors linking the company to Satanism to advance their own business."

etc. (Read either link for the whole story.)

Of course,

the thing was an urban legend from the beginning.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/procter.asp

And a lot of urban legends concerning Satanism, One World Order,

occultism, and all sorts of related things were passed along as part of the

curriculum.

I'm fairly certain twi passed this one along, too.

Why do the posters at the GSC tell the stories they do-

stories about vpw, twi, and so on,

and Momentus, ces/stfi and so on?

I'm not asking "how do we define 'grossly unfit'?"

Suppose we're hearing about a leader in a Christian organization.

He could have embezzled the funds, visited prostitutes, raped and murdered his congregation,

(adults, teens or children)

all of the above, or other things I didn't mention.

Once determining he/she is unfit, what should be done?

Forgive him and leave him in office?

Remove him from office?

What I choose to consider is how Jesus Christ manifests himself in his elect.

that, in no way, renders "insigificant" the consequences of unrighteous behavior.

[You keep saying to give supposed leaders carte blanche to make infinite numbers of

mistakes-which tear down the lives of unregulated numbers of people-

with no consequence other than "pray more for them" and "God will address this

in the future". Sounds like-as long as they're in office- the consequences ARE

"insignificant." NOTHING, according to you, justifies removal of someone from an

office- nor does it justify ANY form of "confrontation."

Please note-as always-there's a RIGHT way and a WRONG way to handle a

"confrontation."

"Face-melting session"- WRONG way.

Ridicule them in public- WRONG way.

What Paul and Samuel and Jeremiah and JESUS CHRIST did- RIGHT way.

However, I don't see you saying ANY method-including the ones JESUS CHRIST used-

as correct.

Couple this along with the concept that a Christian should never have legal action initiated

against them, and you have a PERFECT setup for staying in power no matter what.

Leader engages in a character assassination?

Pray for him-God will take care of it.

Leader wastes the church's money on luxuries- cars, motorcycles, booze?

Pray for him-God will take care of it.

Leader forces himself on women?

Pray for him-God will take care of it.

Leader drugs and sodomizes men in the congregation?

Take no action against him, brother- remain constant in prayer.

Jesus' response to sin is "Bend over and take it, God will avenge....eventually."

You really don't get that this is all of the same cloth, do you?

You really don't get that everyone ELSE considers this hurtful, slothful, wrong,

irresponsible, and yes, SINFUL?]

If you are hearing 'CES BOD -talk', or 'Way Brain-talk",

then meybe you need to stop looking at the flesh and start looking at the spirit of holiness.

The Way and CES really have declared the Truht that lives and abides forever,

in spite of their sinful ways.

If you think I am blind to the egregious acts of unrighteousness perpetrated by those who ought to know better, then you haven't heard me.

[ignoring the actions of the flesh-the fruit- and the effects on the rest of the brethren

in favour of ONLY looking at the spiritual is a Gnostic interpolation.

God works with PEOPLE- people who sweat, weep, bleed, suffer, and die.

God's Word includes ACTIONS to take when Christians step out of line a little,

and out of line a lot.

However, you advocate dismissing ALL those actions.

Sounds like I hear you just fine.

God's Truth abides forever.

Agreed.

God's people are never supposed to correct bad conduct in leaders.

NOT agreed.

I'm getting every word you post.

And disagreeing.

And saying-for all the soft music I hear playing- this is NOT a reflection of Scripture-

including the Epistles and behaviour we are TOLD to perform.

When you and God disagree, whom am I supposed to side with?]

If you don't know what I am saying,

than perhaps you don't yet know Him , for whom I speak.

[i'm getting every word. That I'm not is an ERROR on your part.

I can't be held responsible for that.

And spare me the "I'm speaking for God" stuff-

you're contradicting His Word while "speaking for Him."]

Honestly.

WordWof,

my conversation with you is not at all unlike my last conversations with the CES folks.

[Which says nothing about whether either of us was right.

However, since a number of posters have also said the same thing here, I'd like to give

you some free advice.

When EVERYONE is saying you're wrong, maybe, just maybe, they really ARE right

and you're missing something important.]

Not unlike the dressing downs I got at the hands of the Way Corps.

[And a box of playing cards is not unlike a box of cigarettes.

If one only goes by the vaguest resemblances.

But digging deeper- and not merely watching the rudest shapes-

is not a strong point of some people.]

I've heard the likes of all this before,

but I when I choose to believe the Word,

the shield of Faith estinguishes the firey darts being flung at me.

'Galatians 2:11

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

II Timothy 4:14

Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

I Corinthians 5:11

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

You reject those verses, and retain your doctrine.

Sounds like-when it's inconvenient-

God's Word= "firey darts" and "Shield of Faith"="believing what I want."]

"Vile". "Grab a Bat", " Shame on you for not being Outraged".

Those are all words you introduced, Wolf, not me.

[Of course, taking anything out of context-

like the phrase "there is no God" from Psalms-

can completely change the meaning.

I called doctrines which excuse leadership when they cause the Christians to suffer

vile doctrines. And they are.

I said your response if your own CHILD was raped would be to look for your bat.

And it should be.

And if that was insufficient to move you beyond "pray for the rapist" and you never

advocated "stop him from raping-put him in jail",

then shame on you for not being outraged.

Mind you, I didn't say "I know you would not have this response,"

but your opacity to the idea that such a man would need jail time to deliver the people

from his evil deeds seems to indicate that you would NOT have such a response.

(So shame on you for not being outraged.)

Jesus showed anger when exposed to things worthy of being angry about.

And he TOOK ACTION.

Neither ANGER nor TAKING ACTION are sins.

We know Jesus never sinned, yet he was ANGRY and TOOK ACTION BASED ON IT.

(Review Jesus' response to the moneychangers in the temple, if you're rusty.)

Naturally,

you twisted around my phrases so that they don't reflect their meanings,

and become something objectionable.]

Yet you twist it around to berate me for throwing them back at you.

Actually, you MISUSED them-you misquoted me, you isolated them from

their sentences, you ignored the clear meanings- and just looked for ways

to include them in a response. For all your posting that nobody hears you-

"Can anyone hear me?" and how nobody seems to hear you-

it seems WE HEAR YOU JUST FINE.

WE COMPLETELY DISAGREE.

AND THE BIBLE DISAGREES TOO.

It seems YOU ARE THE ONE THAT HAS A HEARING PROBLEM.]

Those in Indianna also spun my words to make me look ignorant and blind.

[This is a messageboard.

You are free to review what you posted at leisure,

and review what I posted at leisure,

to see the relative merit of what is being said.

This is NOT a closed conversation where the words-once spoken- are lost in the air,

and whoever is the most glib carries the day.

You can review for SUBSTANCE.

If you dared.

Lots of people do exactly that.

And my posts with you have nothing to do with any conversations you had

with anyone in Indiana or anywhere else.

But, of course, with your speed to slap a label on me, finding any similarity with

something you ALREADY labelled is a convenient thing.

Black-and-white thinking is in full use there.

"He posted something I don't like, so all his posts are darkness.

They're just like some dark discussions I had years ago."

That's neither healthy nor mature thinking.

But, don't let me stop you-you're in control of your own mind there and are

responsible.

Ever consider what God will say when you've got to explain dismissing cries for justice?

I have.]

But with more love than what I am getting from you.

[Having seen what you think about Scriptural doctrines you disagree with,

I don't lose any sleep about you confusing my posts with a position of being "unloving."

Any parent who ever had to scold a child knows that sometimes something

doesn't LOOK loving when it IS.

But if the child is engaged in childish, black-and-white thinking,

they of course will despise even the most loving scolding.

Not that I'm your parent, nor you're my child, nor is this a scolding-

in case you were going to cherry-pick that out and distort the meaning again.

However, those who can see the love by a parent doing such can see that there

are times-like now-when being loving doesn't look quite so pristine.]

SO BE IT

[Oooo- I have a "so be it" I'm dealing with.....

*bangs a huge gong to complete the effect*]

Yes.

The problem is how to deal with believers who practice sin.

[Right.

I asked you your method.

I came up with an off-the-cuff answer from my own position.

I said

"Hold them responsible for criminal acts they perform,

and for carrying out their offices properly.

Those who show incompetence in offices should be removed from them

so as to minimize harm to the brethren/humanity,

those who perform criminal acts should face the legal consequences.

Mercy within the legal system is possible, and should be weighed carefully

with the public good, and the specifics of the case."

I then asked you what you would advocate,

without putting any words in your mouth.]

Your method,

or The way Corps Method, or the CES method, or The Momentous method,

or the Anti -Christ's method, or the Way of Cain's method...

( and I am not going all over the place here, I am just hitting the same point )

[The way corps was trained-many of them- to HIDE CRIMES and use the "lockbox."

CES is saying leaders should stay in office.

Momentus said to take people aside and berate them.

Anti-Christ???? He's posted a response to irresponsible office-holders?

Cain advocated ANYTHING?

The way of Cain is to covet money, like Balaam did (says so in Jude.)

I advocated holding people responsible for their actions, and removing

unfit office-holders when they proved unfit.

You said that's the same as all those methods.

That IS going all over the place.

Anyone EXCEPT YOU would see that.][/b]

...

your method is contray to the Way of Life and Peace.

[Not unless Paul was contrary, and Jesus, when they took necessary action.

Unless your "Way of Life and Peace" is a DIFFERENT path than THEY took.

In which case, I can pass on it.]

You find me out of line, so you insult me and berate me

[Actually, I disagreed, and said that what you posted was outrageous.

Your value as a person was untouched.

And you can't tell the difference between someone insulting and berating you

to your face, and a poster disagreeing vociferously with you?

That's sad. And a shame. You can't tell the difference between my posts

and Momentus, even. You just said so.

"Your method,

or The way Corps Method, or the CES method, or The Momentous method,"

Yes, that's what you said.

That's sad. And a shame.]

and do the 'tough love' of tearing me down so that you can build me back up.

[i addressed your posts. I never addressed you as a person, so I didn't tear YOU down.

(Identifying too closely with your posts, however, might make you confuse the two.)

And I never offered to build you back up from anything.

You're confusing me with Momentus again.

Which is sad. And a shame.]

Except the Way Corps never realy learned how to build people back up.

They prefer to leave them beaten into submission.

[i noticed that.

MOST of them were trained POORLY.

A minority, despite their poor training, came out compassionate and beneficial.

Sometimes they post here.

You skipped over that because the Way Corps is labelled "black" and the minority

interferes with sloppy labelling-which is most labelling, really, but especially

what's in use here.]

Would I ever choose to bring my sins to light with the liokes of you?

Hell NO !

[Would I ever ASK YOU TO?

Hell no!

I don't know what you're reading, or hearing at this point- it's not even RESEMBLING

what I wrote....]

[*Achoo!*]

and by the way....God BLess You Too.......

[Thank you.]

The Way of Life and Peace moves in unconditional Love to gently conform a soul to the image of Christ and cleanse it of all unrighteosness.

.

[And when an individual comes in as Lord Over God's Heritage, "vicious wolves not sparing the flock",

(I Peter 5:3, Acts 20:29),

does it advocate leaving him as Lord Over God's Heritage,

and letting him savage the flock?

Your doctrine says "Yes", and has been saying so for several days.

(I was hoping it didn't, but there you go.)]

CES didn't like this approach any more than you.

[if you're advocating THAT, most Christians in history, and most Christians alive today,

would disagree with you.]

They even removed me from their mailing list.

Of course, we're expected to believe that this is the SOLE reason they removed you

from their mailing list, because you responded with unconditional love.

Right.]

Not long after rejecting the Word I spoke to them,

the powers that be determined that Elizabeth was overtaken in a fault.

You know the story well.

They went the Way of Cain to attack their sister in Christ.

[Which, of course, means we let them and DO NOTHING TO STOP THEM,

right? That's the way advocated by Estimated Prophet.]

Here is a Word I shared with them in 1999.

One they even published in their contentious magazine.

One which John Lynn rebutted in the same magazine.

One which I believe John is able to know and understand more clearly today:

( those with eyes to see can see the transformation

in this Apostle and Techer of the Lord Jesus Christ

Glory Be to God in His People)

" For such is the will of God

that by doing right you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men.

Act as free men,

and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil,

but use it as bondslaves of God.

Honor all men,

love the brotherhood,

fear God,

honor the King,

...

for this finds favor,

if for the sake of conscience toward God,

a man bears up under sorrows

when suffering unjustly.

...

For you have been called for this purpose,

since Christ also suffered for you,

leaving you an example to follow in his steps,

who committed no sin,

nor was deceit found in his mouth,

and when being reviled,

he did not revile in return,

while suffering,

He uttered no threats,

but kept entrusting HImself to Him

who judges righteously;

and He Himself

bore our sins in His body

on the cross,

that we might die to sin

and live to righteousness;

by His wounds you were healed

For you were once continually straying like sheep,

but now you have returned

to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls."

IPeter 2:15ff

"Consider what I say,

for the Lord will give you understanding in everything"

IITimothy 2:7

Naturally,

one would ask what relevance it has to this discussion- what to do with unfit leaders-

and what anyone's response to it-which you skipped- had to to with this discussion.

But I WOULD expect JAL to advocate a "let's just put it past us" position now,

since it would benefit him,

when it wasn't HIS ox getting gored last time.

(He was the gorer, not the goree, when he advocated action....)

That's why I try to confine myself to songs released before 1986.

Very few people here have even HEARD songs that rhyme with "umpty."

(They were unable to identify Fiona Apple's hit "Criminal",

so I've adjusted my expectations.)

Please re-select and post again.

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music."

"Music?

Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?"

"Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind...

then give them a form."

"Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today."

"More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week."

"What's this?"

"I have no idea."

"Maybe Will left it here... a little present?"

"It's not quite his style."

"Then maybe you've got a secret admirer."

"They must be changing the snacks around here."

"I don't recognize it. "

"Well, whatever you do, don't put it in your mouth......

....This is terrible."

"I like it."

"Then you can have it.. but it's not what I ordered."

"Let's see what they're trying to 'poison you' with...

Wait a minute... this stuff is bio-organic... there are oxygenated cells... serum electrolytes...

This looks like some kind of... blood."

"You're joking."

"I'm serious."

"I'm gonna have a little talk with the bartender."

"It might not be his fault. We should check out the replicator."

Obviously NG, and the scenes seem familiar,

Correct.

but I have a hunch they don't relate to the main plot.

George

Your hunch is 1/2 right.

I also wonder about Harry`s parents, his grandparents, his aunts uncles and cousins. The grandparents were both alive while his Dad was in school and afterwards because Serius was always welcome to sunday dinner at the potters (sr.)

So in the brief time between them leaving school and their death, not more than a few years....you have the death of both grandparents, at what seems a young age, and while we are at it, serius` horrible mom died too.

Ron doesn`t seem to have a grandparents. Maybe there just isn`t any room for all of the details....but it seems like there are a whole generation of folks that died early.

Harry's family, well,

the tail wagged the dog here.

JKR needed his family gone, so, they died from some normal reason like illness.

James Potter's parents were on a bit in years before he was born,

and he was an only child, so he got all their money.

As to Ron's family, I think you're right about there being not enough time to include

EVERYTHING. Besides, it is not their story. There's a lot that we might want to see

that's not in there. (Like the US. Other than a sentence in Book 4, and a few teams

in "Quidditch Through the Ages", the US is outside the scope of the series.)

I don`t know about Trevor, but I have been thinking about Nevel. You know how great trauma affects the wizards powers, like merope being intimidated by her father, and when Tonks love was unrequitted etc.

I wonder if the trauma of his parents being insane and living with his Gran that intimidates him so, hasn`t been draining him of his natural abilities. That and he was required to use his Dad`s wand for sentimental reasons...Didn`t Olivander make a big deal about the wand needing to chose the wizard? Maybe he isn`t such a blundering, accident prone screw up.

Maybe now that he has his own wand, and his confidence is growing, we will see something extraordinary about him.

On the one hand, yes, Ollivander gave specifics as to the wand and the wizard.

On the other hand, we've seen wands swapped, and the users seemed to do just fine.

The jury's out on that one.

Trevor, though, has been labouring under SOMETHING.

There's been speculations that-like Bertha Jorkins (mentioned in Book 4)

and Percy's boss (in Book 4), he's been fiddled with magickally, and that's why his

memory leaks like a sieve in the early books.

(See also the Muggle who runs the campsite for the Quidditch World Cup,

also in Book 4.)

Like Merope, he has been bullied (by Snape, if no one else.)

He's also had Gran waiting for him to become the next Merlin.

That's enough for "performance anxiety" right there.

He first started to come into his own with the DA's sessions in Book 5.

There's more to be seen from him in Book 7, I'd say...

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music."

"Music?

Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?"

"Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind...

then give them a form."

"Worf said he's going to be teaching us some Mok'bara throwing techniques today."

"More like falling techniques...the last time we did that I was sore for a week."

"What's this?"

"I have no idea."

"Maybe Will left it here... a little present?"

"It's not quite his style."

"Then maybe you've got a secret admirer."

Oh.

THAT one.

I never saw it....

Just how many movies had those two acting in it, BTW?

Here's what I know.

HCW has posted that he's seen photos from the Jubbulpore incident,

and Mrs W herself pointed out that guy. HCW has said he's seen 2 photos,

one with the arm seemingly injured and useless, one with the arm raised, seemingly

healthy and ready for normal use.

As to what Mrs W knows, we can't ask her now. As to what HCW knows,

you will have to ask him. Please note that he has appeared a bit sensitive on

discussing the subject of what the photos show, and what they mean, at one

point. (He may or may not be sensitive on the subject now.) So, I would phrase

my questions a bit carefully.

Now, even if the account HCW was given was correct in every particular,

(that's the man, that's the healing, vpw performed the healing),

it still contradicts vpw's account of the incident, since vpw's account, if

photographed, would require a photographer snapping pictures right next

to vpw, who just happened to snap those right at that moment, and managed

not to get thrown off the back of a train (presuming both are allowed to STAND

on the back of a moving train, movies notwithstanding) while NEITHER hand is

used for support, since they're on the camera.

vpw's account was that he was on the back of the train, and had this exchange

and the prayer seconds before the train pulled out,

and the healing happened just as the engine engaged,

so that the arm was now instantly healed and raised while vpw was pulling

away in the train, making his parting comment.

Oh, so cinematic. Someone mentioned that a scene in the film

"Young Mr Lincoln" looks EXACTLY like this one.

Beyond that, I can't say.

Was there an actual healing under all the bs, less cinematic?

Did Mrs W see a healing there when it happened?

Did the pictures show exactly that?

Maybe.

And unless someone knows more (they saw the pictures, they were there),

that's as far as they can honestly say.

Ok, let's see, a new episode....

Ok, got one....

"I want you to start a new piece... I'd like you to sculpt... music."

"Music?

Counselor. Music is a collection of acoustic vibrations. How can I reproduce a sound with clay?"

"Think of the effects that sounds have on people... the images that music brings to your mind...

then give them a form."

Hm.

This sounds like when the Enterprise was the first ship to find those previous-century Klingons,

who thought the Federation was still at war with the Klingons.

I'm trying to remember the title, but I keep getting it confused with some others.

Funny how some songs just pop up like that.

I never saw "Little House", but I saw a few episodes of the Andy Griffith Show,

and Opie was singing that song once.

Okay, I've been quiet because I've been reading up on your veil theory, which I found interesting...

But I beg to differ...

The veils you mention at Nick's Death Day party are black curtains. There's mention of black tablecloths on the tables, with the rotten haggis. But I wouldn't think of curtains as veils - I imagined the veil of the arch to be wispy, raggy looking, and perhaps a little natty. Curtains I think of as a more solid and not tattered or wispy. In short, I think the curtains were just "trim" and not a clue. I don't think there's a clue in those trends.

Opinions differ on that one.

There's allusions that are not precise forensic matches, and THAT's what I'm claiming that was.

Now, about Trevor's magical nature - I can't find record of that at all... I found where Uncle Algie (sp) had hung Neville out the window by his ankles and dropped him. Neville bounced, which proved his magical abilities. But nothing about Trevor.

Well, obviously he wasn't the HBP.

However, mentions of him and where he keeps hopping off and has to be found keep popping up at

peculiar times and locations. Apparently they really WERE coincidences- but a peculiar SET of

coincidences.

After the "Mark Evans fiasco", we're aware that sometimes there ARE innocent coincidences

in the books that have NO other meaning.

Next, you talked about your disappointments with the 6th book... here's mine:

1) Hagrid & Olympia - I was hoping for more of a romance there or something.

2) Ginny & Harry - too predictable - especially when he broke up with her.

3) Harry - not just in the 6th book but in ALL of them - Harry is the most un-curious person in the world! It about kills me that he doesn't ask more about his family or his past or anything. We know so little about his parents or what they did for work or anything... scheesch!

4) Voldemort - not enough presence - he was mentioned, but never surfaced really. We did learn a lot about him and his past - more than I had imagined we would.

5) Horcruxes - not enough about HOW they work or HOW they are made.

6) Follow-up from the Dept. of Mysteries - no info. I mean, what was up with some of those rooms or like the brains in the tank... what was that all about? We hear about the damage, etc. but nothing more.

That's a few for now... wishing I didn't have so much work so that I could read more - great flights of fancy!

1) Not enough time-I expect we'll hear about that at the end of Book 7, presuming they both survive.

(Remember, the last chapter will be an Epilogue and "whatever happened to...")

2) Eh, whatever. Didn't feel anything either way.

3) The Dursleys, as JKR said, really crushed his curiousity. I would have asked a LOT more questions.

Then again, I'm more like a thoughtful Ravenclaw than a brash Gryffindor.

4) I liked the way Voldy did not appear, but was felt nonetheless.

5) Book 7, of course, will have more to say on this.

6) The Dept of Mysteries studies the great mysteries, the big questions, like Time, the Mind, Space, Death,

and Love. Ron was damaged by a "think-tank", obviously. :)

I personally wanted to hear any reference to the experience later, however. He was exposed to

raw thoughts, and my opinion is that it was a VERY traumatic or watershed experience,

even with that potion being administered as an antidote. Doesn't he still have scars from that,

physical if not mental?

I bring this up because I believe current TWI leadership is using it as part convincing young people to stay with The Way. There is a huge push at the gulag to focus on attracting young people. It's even alluded to in their new "family class". Many of the current leadership came when they were young. There is an obvius infighting about who knew VPW longer or better. They are pushing to go back to VPWs teachings and only VPWs teachings and are trying to convince us gullible young people there were glory days and we just need to go back to how VPW did it.

It will fail miserably.

First of all,

the growth the FIRST time had almost NOTHING to do with vpw.

It had EVERYTHING to do with the Jesus People movement and REAL Christians like

J1m D00p, St3v3 H33fn3r, and the others.

The youth of the time were ready to hear,

and the young leaders of the time demonstrated God's Love and God's Power.

Without those 2 things, 99.5% or more of us never would have heard of vpw or twi.

Second of all,

in the Information Age, it's FAR too easy to find all the problems with twi.

Hiding them can't work anymore.

And the "followers" can communicate freely with each other, moreso than in twi's

heyday. Can't just make people "vanish" anymore.

Third of all,

many modern churches ARE doing their jobs, and BETTER than twi.

twi has little that is more practical, or more resonating, or more useful, or more

ingenious, or otherwise "better" than is already out there.

The people who came in when they were young probably forgot that vpw warmed

himself at fires he didn't build. The people who grew up in twi never had a chance

to learn that.

So, misinformation is welcome at The Way.

Ok, let's see....

As I see it, Estimated Prophet

A) thinks whenever I object to his POSTS, I'm objecting to HIM

B) forgiveness of the brethren equals letting them continue harming people without consequence

C) confronting evil=bad. Exposing wrongs=bad. Dismissing them =good.

The reasons I say this follow, and proceed from the latest post, 3:05pm eastern 3/18.

BTW, he seems to be a fan of the word "vile."

When I said his position was one of lulling the conscience and going about one's own business

rather than act, he referred to that and said

"What justifies your vile words towards me Mr Wordwolf?

How is that different from the motives that justified all the physical and verbal abuse that you are so outraged at CES for inflicting on people?"

There's the "vile" thing, and my words were HARDLY strong ones.

Oddly, he can't distinguish between my posts and the screaming sessions of Momentus

nor the social stigmatizing of people in ces/stfi- the stuff that killed marriages and

humiliated people, in other words, what I'm objecting to.

Most people CAN.

If one's thinking remains black-and-white, distinguishing between the two is harder.

EP also thinks that action NOW-only after a public outcry has FORCED THEIR HAND-

qualifies as saying JAL was on top of things all the time.

When I said

"In other words,

John Lynn himself was well aware of the evils in twi (and is now oblivious to evils in ces/stfi

even when specifics are brought to him by people who know better),

and you consider the evils done by vpw himself, lcm and the trained cadre under vpw

as INSIGNIFICANT."

he responded with

"How can you say John is oblivious when his letter admonished Mark G for missing the mark?"

Well, EP,

it's because he was ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH for several years of this happening,

even to the degree that they interfered to some degree with his own marriage,

and saw no need to take action until FORCED TO.

I call that "being oblivious."

If a traffic cop let traffic zoom past him, running red lights, and there came a public

outcry because there were crashes at his post and people crippled,

and THEN he got tough with traffic,

most people would consider that "BAD."

=====

As to what I consider are more serious issues, we disagree greatly.

When it comes to the public outcry that FORCED CHANGE,

EP would have preferred no one ever spoke up, and no change to have been wrought!

"Also, I never said the evils done were insignificant.

I simply don't care to focus on that crap."

"And you still fail to demonstrate how your attack upon me is any different than the attacks

you are so outraged at CES for doing upon insubordinates."

Well, EP,

I criticized your posts. You put them in public, I disagreed vocally and soundly.

I confined myself to their subject, substance and presentation.

In ces/stfi, people claimed to speak for God, and declared how people were to live

their lives, and savaged the reputations of anyone who didn't fall in line.

Most people can distinguish between the two.

"They also esteem my 'comprehension skills' in low degree.

They've never called me "vile" ."

Neither have I-I've criticized your POSTS, and considered the positions that justify

them as terrible things, but other than your comprehension skills, I've not

criticized YOU. Failing to distinguish between the two justifies my comment

that your "comprehension skills" aren't up to scratch. BTW, I made THAT comment

when I answered your question, and you immediately asked it a second time.

"Would you approve of me reacting to your insults by knocking you on the head with a baseball bat? SHAME on YOU. Is that the instruction in righteosness that your superior comperehension skills have determined?"

See, EP,

that's black-and-white thinking in action again.

You're lumping ALL negative reactions together-

be they valid criticisms, public face-to-face humiliations, and physical violence.

1) You weren't insulted, except by the one comment about reading comprehension-

which seems, BTW, to have been borne out by the evidence.

All the other comments were perfectly valid criticisms, which you are free to discuss

rather than dismiss as "insults" -which of course is easier....

2) You introduced physical violence as a legitimate response to an insult,

then attempted to claim that was MY idea.

That's poor "debating", let alone "discussing".

Then said that was wrong of me to do- "shame on you."

But you put those words in my mouth.

Shame on YOU for doing so.

Can't you face what I REALLY said? Are you only able to address a poor distortion of

it? That's the famous "strawman" of debating, as many here know.

I expected better than that of you, EP, but at least you're capable of SOME

outrage. You don't have a heart of stone.

Now all you have to do is correctly identify what should be WORTHY of outrage

and direct it THERE.

==========

When EP claimed that the evils performed by vpw were not significant,

I responded with a laundry list off the top of my head of evils he performed,

all of which were dismissed by EP with an offhand comment.

I said you considered all of that INSIGNIFICANT.

EP replied

"NO Sir.

But you are now making the bizarre distortions."

Actually, EP, that's hardly a distortion when you yourself said

"All that evil is fairly minimal

when compared to the tremendous Truth that was held forth by Dr W.

Likewise John L."

You said "FAIRLY MINIMAL." I said "INSIGNIFICANT."

That's not "distorting." That's "saying what you didn't want to hear."

You replied "...I am in no way de-valuing anyone's life."

However, when you claim their hurts (and deaths) were "fairly minimal",

you ARE de-valuing them, whether you mean to or not.

"I simply ask that you extend the same courtesy towards John Lynn.

God grants him mercy. Why don't you?"

As I understand it, God's mercy extended towards Jeffrey Dahmer, who sat in

prison. I agree with God's mercy, and I agree that he should have sat in prison.

I consider your position to be one that confuses forgiveness with inaction,

where all possible consequences, all amends, are eliminated,

and those shown incompetent for any office are permitted to retain them

indefinitely, with a pat on the head and an injunction to do right.

I do NOT think Christians are called to do that. Forgive, yes. Permit injustices?

Never.

I even gave Scriptural documentation of my position.

All I'm saying is that lives are saved by

Jesus Christ dieing on the Cross in order to redeem them."

I agree, and consider that a NON-ISSUE as to actually addressing wrongs of

leaders in office. I say God expects us to use our brains and our consciences

while we are here.

When I pointed out that

"you appear remarkably ill-informed as to the proven doctrinal errors in twi at the pen

of vpw, and the practical errors he did and taught were perfectly acceptable

(if you were in the inner cadre)"

you replied

"No, I've never been in the inner cadre except for three years as a Twig Coordinator."

Let me rephrase that.

Those in the inner cadre were taught these performed evils were perfectly acceptable.

As to the proven doctrinal errors,

almost everyone here knows about them, because that information is easy to find.

We've discussed them HERE. Plenty of times.

So, you appear remarkably ill-informed on many subjects concerning the errors

vpw taught, and the many acts he performed which the Bible roundly condemns

(as well as many that it would have had these crimes been current 2000 years

ago, and match the pattern of what it DOES condemn).

======================

Here's our two positions reflected nicely.

I said

"...to the degree that the entire package of twi-

excepting the permissiveness and policies I objected to-

were all ripped off from other Christians.

The entire pfal class was taken straight from the works of other Christians-

Leonard, Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger- with vpw's name added and their names removed.

All the early twi books were taken directly from the books of other Christians-

with vpw's name added and their names removed.

All the later twi books were the work of twi research people-

with vpw's name added and their names never mentioned-

and not even mentioned by category (as in "the research dept worked on this".)"

You replied

"Remarkably, I am aware of most of that.

It is outrageous that VP actaully behaved so poorly.

I simply approve of the ability VPW had to Teach the Word and cause it to live in people's hearts.

And I give God the Glory for that."

Somehow, I see in this pious answer the same response you gave to the evils

vpw did in destroying lives and treating humans like merchandise-because he wanted to.

He gets a free pass because God forgave him, and he taught some good Word,

and so those he crushed should just move on with their lives, it's really not so bad,

suffering now, since we face glory in the future....

Let's ignore the evils he did, since we should be focusing on godly things.

Let's never discuss the lives he crushed, since we look to higher ground.

If your higher ground, your more noble plane of spirituality, requires I turn a blind eye to

the suffering of others, and permit leaders to perform any act with impunity,

then I don't want any part of it. I don't want to live there, I could not live there,

and I don't see Paul the Apostle or JESUS CHRIST living there, either.

Both of them SPOKE UP and MADE CHANGES where they were able.

When I said

"you seem determined to make

THE SAME MISTAKE

and give John L a free pass.

People's lives were ruined? Some had breakdowns? Some were destroyed by

Momentus, "personal prophecies", and ridicule from the pulpit?

Oh, that's not important- he's teaching the Doctrine I respect!

Ignore the lost and damaged lives.

In conclusion, you're reflecting a position of

"I got mine-who cares if you suffer?"

All the pious posting on the internet can't wipe away a callous heart, nor excuse it."

You replied

"And what justifies the insults you continue to slap on me?"

I say none of that was an insult-it reflects accurately your posts and positions.

You WANT JAL to get a free pass. The ruined lives DON'T MATTER when it comes to

his office. The reason IS the Doctrine. The damaged lives ARE to be ignored.

All of that was phrased piously. And it's callous.

You may not LIKE that this is how the average person would see your position,

including the average Christian, but that's how it looks from outside of yourself.

I noticed that you objected to- without addressing it-

my comments that

"Lives are STILL being sacrificed at the whims of leadership,

and other lives are GLOSSING THAT OVER.

I consider that SPIRITUAL DARKNESS.

You may consider that something else- like "excusable" or "crap" or "minimal".

Jesus cares about ALL Christians- not just the leaders-

and would NEVER allow the one lost sheep to be cast aside.

He makes sure the lost sheep is found."

You agreed to the LAST part, but later objected to what I said once divorcing it

from its context.

"So calling my heart "calloused" and my words "vile" and I reflect "spiritual darkness"

is not an exageration ?"

Let's see.

Practical response to wrongs being committed?

Gloss it over, and soundly condemn those objecting to the suffering.

Many would call that "callous" regardless of the context.

Yes, I know, you've said you didn't like what Elizabeth suffered.

Bravo. You can FEEL.

But.......................

.......................what does one do when she's on your doorstep?

Does one simply give a nurturing speech, feel her pain, then send her home and

tell her to do nothing, and leave it to God to handle?

Or does one actually advocate DOING SOMETHING before someone else gets hurt?

Your recommendations-based on all posts and objections- sound like they'd

be the former, while mine would be the latter.

(Not that there's no place for healing for her heart, but I would not leave the

situation with ONLY that done.)

As to claims that what was said was "vile" and "spiritual darkness", well,

I explained those before.

Giving a free pass to vpw- the rapist, thief, and committer of other crimes-

because he can teach a great sermon-

most people would call that "vile".

Burying the problems to protect a sermonizer who's doing great sermons-

most people would call that "dark"- to say the least.

Perhaps you can't see that at all.

Perhaps you can ONLY see a world divided into healing and nurturing

and evil and darkness,

and righteous action doesn't exist in your worldview.

If that's the case, nothing I can say will make a difference to you.

I'm speaking a language to which you don't know the vocabulary.

=========================

We DID agree at one point.

When I said,

"Seems the strength of the meaning of the verses is on the Christian being

responsible for NOT SINNING."

you replied

"I absolutely agree."

Personally, I don't see how we can agree on that, based on the posts

preceeding this, but I'll accept that at face value.

We agree the Christian is supposed to NOT SIN.

Then you asked what's probably the question that lies at the crux of

our disagreements....

"So what shall be done with the people who do sin?"

I think that's worth an entire separate discussion.

For now, I say

"Hold them responsible for criminal acts they perform,

and for carrying out their offices properly.

Those who show incompetence in offices should be removed from them

so as to minimize harm to the brethren/humanity,

those who perform criminal acts should face the legal consequences.

Mercy within the legal system is possible, and should be weighed carefully

with the public good, and the specifics of the case."

It seems you're unlikely to agree with me here.

What would your version of that paragraph look like?

*wild swing*

"DISASTER"?