WordWolf

Are you saying the movie "THE GODFATHER"

is not the only movie with the line "Leave the gun, take the cannoli" in it?

Hm.

What other movie had gangsters shooting it out and

"going to the mattresses"?....

You know,

most quotes from "THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW"

would have gotten me stuck,

but that one's about the only one that would have worked.

I once saw that episode,

AND wondered-as a kid- about supper ending and dinner being on the way.

Which was enough to make me remember the line.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=181062007

===========

Finish or bust - JK Rowling's unlikely message in an Edinburgh hotel room

TIM CORNWELL ARTS CORRESPONDENT (tcornwell@scotsman.com)

SHE began her journey to literary fame by scribbling in cafés with a baby in a pram at her elbow, while living on benefits.

Twelve years and £600 million later, JK Rowling finished her Harry Potter series in a luxury room at one of Scotland's most famous hotels.

Click to learn more...

And the writer celebrated the completion of the seventh and final novel, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, in bizarre fashion, by signing a marble bust in her room.

"JK Rowling finished writing Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows in this room (652) on 11th Jan 2007," she wrote.

In the stroke of a marker pen she may have created the most valuable item of Potter memorabilia next to a signed copy of a first edition of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

The bust was yesterday in the care of Debbie Taylor, general manager, of the Balmoral in Edinburgh.

The memorable image of Rowling's first steps on the road to fame is of an impoverished single mother escaping her freezing flat to write for hours in the warmth of a cafe with her baby in a pram beside her. Finding shelter in Edinburgh from a former husband, she would nurse one cup of coffee because she couldn't afford more.

Two famous and well-marked venues include Nicolson's restaurant, owned at the time by her brother-in-law and now replaced by a Chinese restaurant. Legend has it that much of the Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was written there.

She was also a regular at the Elephant House café, on George IV Bridge, writing in long-hand and typing up the work at home on a manual typewriter.

The pressures on JK Rowling are very different now. Ten years after she published her first book, her baby daughter, Jessica, is now a teenager, and the concern is to keep a normal life with two other young children and her husband, Dr Neil Murray.

There are other Edinburgh cafés where she has written, well after her worldwide fame, keeping their names quiet to discourage tourist traffic. "She has just got into the habit of writing in places other than the house. Writers do need locations other than a bedroom," said a friend.

But while Edinburgh residents may respect her privacy, book collectors are not so polite. It has become increasingly difficult for her to be anywhere in public.

It remained a mystery yesterday why JK Rowling chose to scrawl on a statue in black marker pen, in an incident that had some hallmarks of a publicity stunt.

Her note was reportedly spotted by hotel staff.

A spokeswoman for the 188-room Balmoral, where rates run from £290 to £1,575 a night, said: "We can confirm that the author signed a bust, following a recent visit to the hotel."

But there are no plans, apparently, to turn the room into a tourist shrine.

"It was hotel property. We have many different antique artefacts within the hotel," said the spokeswoman. The bust was believed to be of the Greek god Hermes, not Emperor Hadrian as first thought.

A spokesman for the author said: "We can confirm that JK Rowling did write some of the book at the Balmoral last month and did complete the book at that hotel."

Rowling announced on Thursday that the seventh and final instalment in the series, which will follow Harry during his final year at Hogwarts, will be published on 21 July.

• MANY writers work from home, but regularly go in search of inspiration or escape from the pressures of family life. Sir Walter Scott began his early career as a writer in a summer cottage in Lasswade. Ernest Hemingway wrote anywhere he could.

Writer's retreats are always in demand. In the United States, the austere setting of the MacDowell writers' colony in New Hampshire, with 32 its cabin studios, has drawn the likes of Alice Sebold, writer of The Lovely Bones. Author Michel Chabon and his novelist wife Ayelet Waldman are also regular visitors.

In Scotland, one well-known writers' retreat is Hawthornden Castle near Roslin, owned by Drue Heinz. Scottish writers who win the Robert Louis Stevenson Award earn two months near the Forest of Foutainebleau, France, where writers and artists from across Europe converge to work.

The Isle of Jura whisky distiller, meanwhile, is now offering a month-long fellowship for an established writer to travel to Scotland and write and live on the island at the distillery lodge at Craighouse."

===========

Well....yeah, but wasn`t that Jesus? Do you not think he may have had a bit more on the ball then the people that we are discussing in these groups, as I think is evidenced in the widely differing impact of their actions?

I have to wonder if these folks, placing themselves on par with Jesus, isn`t what has been wrong with twi/ces/momentus all along.

Ahem.

Jesus was a Rabbi.

He had all the qualifications of the job, which meant he did the work, and had the equivalent of

Certification at the time.

So, he had the professional qualifications at the time.

We know, for example, he had understanding, even at age 12- he REASONED with the scholars

at the temple, asking questions, AND ANSWERING.

At age 12, he impressed the people present with his skill at both.

(Compare that to full adults, whose idea of dialogue isn't "reasoning", it's "we're right and buy our book".)

At age 30, he found a precise verse in Isaiah without chapter and verse headings,

which means he spent a LOT of time in the Scriptures. We know he UNDERSTOOD them because this

is what he did at age 12, and he'd had more than another decade of study since then.

So it wasn't just using verses to justify his theology.

I've never heard anything reputed to be his very last words.

However, someone reported that, as his days turned to his final hours,

that he claimed (or genuinely asserted) that he was thinking over and over,

puzzled and trying to figure out where he missed the mark...

as in what action he'd taken or skipped taking, such that he was unable

to use his magickal believing power to achieve a miracle of healing,

thus preventing his own death.

If that's true, he either bought into his own myth- and genuinely thought he could

do that AND didn't think any of the big sins he committed were wrong,

or

he was lying to the end.

Me, I think it was the former.

Since he'd been to Gartmore by then, it's possible cg refilled his head with that stuff

before he came home.

Was it the episode where Picard comes back from some conference on a shuttlecraft to find what appears to be the Enterprise and a Romulan ship frozen in mid-battle? (As I recall, the Enterprise crew was actually helping the Romulans.)

George

Picard, Troi, LaForge, & Data came back from a conference.

Yes, it's TIMESCAPE.

Your turn.

I have spent the last few days reading the threads about TWI origins “Way Living in Wonderland” and others. WOW!!!

For those wondering,

that's this thread here....

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=7363&st=0

Personally,

I find this other thread useful for a different look,

one from inside, when the cameras weren't rolling...

"vp and me in wonderland"

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=8019&st=0

Estimated Prophet, What is it about wolfs post that offends you precisely? The fact that John Lynn is too good to address me here, that we are considered perpetually whining victims or back biters and hard hearted frankly, offends me too.

As far as what happened in twi as *minimal evil* that is extremely offensive when people litterally lost their lives.

Please re read the post, I think you may have misjudged and charged him falsely. Wolf makes some excellent points if you can read him without becoming irrationally angry. I think that there are some salient points to consider if you can set aside your frustration long enough to consider friend.

In your address to sprawled out...do you think that vpw was not a liar and thief? You must not have known him very well. Can you set aside his public persona ...the face that he wanted everyone to see and honestly view what he was in his private life?

I take it from your post that you were never personally close and are unaware of much of what he did.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey undone, why are you offended with folks here? Is it because we talk about what these people did to us?

It sometimes feels like folks get more angry at us for telling what happened than the perpetrators who assaulted us.

I don`t understand why the people who merely report the abuse are treated with such venom and and accusations, while love and respect are reserved for the perpetrators of the evil....sigh

Your mad at the wrong guys people.

"[i'm going to spend some time here because I find this an especially vile post]"

WordWolf

You've a right to your opinions everyone.

I suppose if you don't believe in an accounting for disobedience before the righteous judge at the Bema, then you'll need to get your ball bat or sharpen your pen and take matters into your own hands. That's the way of Iniquity and lawlwssness as I see it , but go ahead and have at it.

[i suppose so.

Of course, that's a bizarre distortion of what you THINK I believe based on a single off-hand comment made which

also suggested opening discussion on the subject, but whatever you need to salve your own conscience,

I suppose. It's far easier just to lull the conscience, rationalize the hurts of others, and go about

your own business. To actually follow ALL God's injunctions takes work, sometimes hurts-a lot,

and involves actually caring about other people. I imagine that's not for everyone.

(Not that I hold myself as an exemplar of this either.)]

What justifies your vile words towards me Mr Wordwolf?

How is that different from the motives that justified all the physical and verbal abuse that you are so outraged at CES for inflicting on people?

[Well, I already posted it, but it seems your comprehension skills didn't seem up to the task, earlier up the page or

so.

You said

"I recall discussing VPW with John Lynn 15 or so years ago,

and John wanting me to see how much "evil" was involved in the Way.

He didn't think I was seeing it for some reason.

I did, but

I still don't care to focus on that crap."

and I replied

"[in other words,

John Lynn himself was well aware of the evils in twi (and is now oblivious to evils in ces/stfi

even when specifics are brought to him by people who know better),

and you consider the evils done by vpw himself, lcm and the trained cadre under vpw

as INSIGNIFICANT.

Women were raped, women were drugged, THEN raped, children were beaten 1/2 to

unconsciousness, some developing long-term psychological damage,

some children were molested and twi'ers did a breakin to steal evidence against the

"minister" who did it, and relocated him-more than once,

one man blew his brains out because lcm insisted on repeatedly having sex with that man's wife,

vast coverups of all the above were done,

women were raped as the result of mandatory hitchhiking to LEAD-and vpw himself blew off

the accounts and did nothing to change the program,

one corps participant was crippled from injuries caused by an accident in an unsafe vehicle

used by the corps- then was kicked out of the corps and committed suicide,

people leaving twi were told it would be better if they just killed themselves,

the corps were treated like slave labour for life-by vpw himself,

and the doctrine of "the lockbox"-all these things were PERMISSABLE for the top echelon

and anyone else should remain silent-

besides other evils that escape me at the moment-

and you considered all of that INSIGNIFICANT.]

You said

""All that evil is fairly minimal

when compared to the tremendous Truth that was held forth by Dr W.

Likewise John L."

and I replied

"[First of all, lives were ENDED, lives were LOST, lives were RUINED,

and you consider those "fairly minimal."

I thank God you are not in charge of determining the value of MY OWN LIFE.

I consider each person worth more than that-

even when they utter such callous, despicable things.

To you, lives are EXPENDABLE

so long as the organization and its programs are reflecting the doctrines

you want.

That's what you just said.

Second of all,

you appear remarkably ill-informed as to the proven doctrinal errors in twi at the pen

of vpw, and the practical errors he did and taught were perfectly acceptable

(if you were in the inner cadre)

and are remarkably ill-informed to the degree that the entire package of twi-

excepting the permissiveness and policies I objected to-

were all ripped off from other Christians.

The entire pfal class was taken straight from the works of other Christians-

Leonard, Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger- with vpw's name added and their names removed.

All the early twi books were taken directly from the books of other Christians-

with vpw's name added and their names removed.

All the later twi books were the work of twi research people-

with vpw's name added and their names never mentioned-

and not even mentioned by category (as in "the research dept worked on this".)

Third of all,

you seem determined to make

THE SAME MISTAKE

and give John L a free pass.

People's lives were ruined? Some had breakdowns? Some were destroyed by

Momentus, "personal prophecies", and ridicule from the pulpit?

Oh, that's not important- he's teaching the Doctrine I respect!

Ignore the lost and damaged lives.

In conclusion, you're reflecting a position of

"I got mine-who cares if you suffer?"

All the pious posting on the internet can't wipe away a callous heart, nor excuse it.]

You said

""it's the same old story, the same old spiritual battle,"

and I replied

"[it is indeed.

Lives are STILL being sacrificed at the whims of leadership,

and other lives are GLOSSING THAT OVER.

I consider that SPIRITUAL DARKNESS.

You may consider that something else- like "excusable" or "crap" or "minimal".

Jesus cares about ALL Christians- not just the leaders-

and would NEVER allow the one lost sheep to be cast aside.

He makes sure the lost sheep is found.

How do you think he'd address the attitude that suffering Christians are "minimal"?]"

You said

"That is the truth I care about.

In the world, we are all guilty as sin.

In Christ we are cleansed from all impurities."

and I replied

"[And all the OTHER truths are those you care NOTHING about-

like the ongoing performance of evil-so long as you approve of the performer's doctrine

and delivery-

and it's not YOU or YOURS that are being victimized.

I bet your pious posturing tune would change in an INSTANT if one of those

so-called servants of God drugged and raped your wife or daughter.

Would it be "Oh, turn to Jesus, sweet one, he will deliver you from your suffering?"

NO-

it would be "He did WHAT? I'll take care of this-where'd I leave my pistol and baseball bat?"

And if your response would NOT be outrage,

then SHAME ON YOU.

SHAME ON YOU for having such a callous, atrophied heart that you can't see the need

to avenge the suffering of the innocent.]"

I consider the systematic excusing of evil as justification-

the vileness of your OWN words, the relabelling of "evil" as "good."

Isaiah 5:20

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

The injunctions to CEASE using our senses to discern good and evil,

contrary to God's instructions.

Hebrews 5:14

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

So, call my words "vile" all you wish, if it salves your conscience.

It's just another example of swapping the labels.

And if you can't tell the difference between a warning OF evil-

which I've done and JAL and ces ONCE did-

and the inflicting of harm by inventing spiders up the nose and other things to savage a reputation,

then nothing else I say can show it to you.]

If you would simply forgive, you could let go of all that baggage.

["1 Peter 5:8

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

I can try it God's method,

or I can try it your method,

and use "a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep" (Proverbs)

when my fellow Christians are harmed and suffer.

Your method's a LOT less work.]

Sounds like you are still following the letter of Way Corps training rather than the Prince of Peace.

We are all so quick to seize the error and magnify it way beyond proportion.

[Then you need your hearing checked.

Being a Christian is SOMETIMES about Peace- Shalom Shalom-

and sometimes about that peace motivating ACTION.

And speak for yourself when "magnifying error way beyond proportion."

I've confined my discussions to the letter of what's been documented-

both on this and other threads.]

'John Lynn insulted us because he won't post here"

Outrageous!!!

[Now that's a fine example of "magnifying way beyond proportion."

Kindly cite where I made such an outrageous claim.

I claimed JAL insulted us when he made a insults and attempted to

poison the well and claimed we'd only "take potshots" at him,

and say we "lack love and courage."

Forget already?

Check out the first post of this thread- the ending is where he said each of those.

I made no claims that refusing to post here, in and of itself, was an insult.

Kindly cite the post where such a claim was made by me.

I say it indicates certain things, but not that it's an insult.]

and who is he that would lay anything to the charge of God's elect?

Evil is as Evil does.

["Galatians 2:11.

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

That Paul must have been soooo Evil, according to your measure.

"II Timothy 2:14

Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:"

There he goes again.

If Paul's a bad Christian by your lights, then I'd GLADLY join him and suffer your label, your stigma,

for actually daring to call good "good", evil "evil" and hold Christians-especially leaders-

accountable for their actions.]

Shall we overcome evil with evil?

or overcome evil with good?

[Overcome evil with good.

"Overcome" is a verb, and denotes ACTION.]

Sin and Death?

Life and Peace?

Your choice.

"Liar and Theif"? or

" Holy and Without Blame"?

[This "black and white" thinking has hobbled men of conscience for millenia.

"Liar" when a man lies,

"thief" when a man steals,

and "holy and without blame" when justified by God.

"Ephesians 4:28

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth."

Seems God can tell the difference, and expects us to NOT lie, and NOT steal.

"Romans 6:11-16

11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Seems God does, at that.]

One can make a case for either side.

[seems the strength of the meaning of the verses is on the Christian being

responsible for NOT SINNING.]

I choose to believe the Word.

and I will reprove rebuke and admonish In season and Out of season when called upon.

( like right at this moment )

I am preacing the power of the Cross.

Foolish to some. ( rationalizing?)

A stumbilng block to others.

But to those who are being saved it is the power of God.

[And, naturally, skipping those parts of The Word that seem "too harsh" and are

inconvenient to one's conscience.]

Can anybody hear me? !!

My picture is of a skeleton in a jester's costume. (holding the harp unstrung)

It is a reflection of my my foolish preaching out of a broken and corrupted body.

See Gal 2:20 and I Cor 1-4, Eph 2

The Cross represents the ultimate of cruelty and abuse anyone ever inflicted upon another.

It represents the depravity of the unredeemed soul.

It represents the consequences of evil actions.

It also represents the ultimate expresion of Love,

that our Savior would take that sort of punishment on our behalf,

and then forgive the ones who killed him.

It represents the lamb of God

that takes away the sins of VPW and John Lynn and You and Me...

[And according to God's Word,

this is not an excuse to sin any further.

Romans 6:1

"1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

God forbid.

This means that JAL and WordWolf and Estimated Prophet are all

RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS, for good or ill,

for help or harm.

This includes actions and words.

Matthew 12:36

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."

I suggest you spend some time at the Cross Mr. Wordwolf,

and let its wonder working power soak in.

This is the same truth I spoke to John Lynn,

and he responded in much the same manner as you Mr. WordWolf.

Lets make sure everybody knows all the rotten things that were done.

[Let a wise man build his house on solid ground, and discern the face

of the seasons, and be warned against danger.

Ezekiel 33:1-11

"1Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

7So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

8When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

9Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

10Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Warning people is in God's repertoire and in his instructions.]

Really.

Is that the wisdom from above ? Hmmmmm

Now, after 15 years of attacking and being attacked, what has this method amounted to?

[if that's ALL you've gleaned from the past 15 years of JAL's life,

I'd recommend looking more closely.

I hold him responsible for a LOT more than you do, and I'm aware that he's spent a

considerable amount of time TRYING to do good.]

And I will fight for you too WordWolf,

just like I will fight for John Lynn,

and for the honor of Jesus Christ whom we like to think we are serving.

[Consider Ezekiel 33:13, and ask if you're really using ALL the proper tools....

"13When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it."]

Interesting EP, I always wondered what the leonards thought about vp/twi. I`d say though, that I believe that the problems began with vp long before that. I`ll bet they didn`t know that vp was thrown out of the church he pastored for sexual improprieties. From all accounts he was immoral from the very beginning. His research and quest to me seemed geared more towards finding scriptural and doctrinal support for doing what he damned well pleased...shrug

You mean like when he told JD how God was ok with orgies, and used Scripture to rationalize it?

I bet EP missed each time we discussed it so far...

wordwolf,

I never heard anyone say that this program is above reproach. To put any program on

such a pedestal seems foolish. I reserve the "above reproach" label for God and for Jesus.

[That's the net result of dismissing all problems WITH this program, its execution,

and the "aggressive marketing" categorically-that the program is NEVER to blame, but some

OTHER source (the victims conned into taking it) are ALWAYS to blame.

(Again, not all people who took it feel they were damaged. Bully for them- I'm addressing

the victims.)]

There is potential for harm in many many activities in life, including Momentus/Vision Quest.

Blindfolding yourself and running around on the highway contains risks.

It's amazing I need to spell this out-again- but the issue is

"DO THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE RISKS, and CAN WE ACHEIVE THE BENEFITS WITH FEWER RISKS?"]

Nobody is happy when "perfectly healthy" people are harmed by a program that is looking to do

good. To hear that some have been harmed is not by itself reason to throw the program in the

dumpster.

[However, the response so far has been to sweep the claims of harm under the rug-

or just to try to remove any legal responsibility for the harm inflicted from the program that

inflicted the harm.

If those are my ONLY two choices- and any HEALTHY group would at least CONSIDER the THIRD

option of a COMPLETE OVERHAUL-

then I'd rather "throw the PROGRAM in the dumpster"

than the current ces/stfi approach-

which is to throw the PEOPLE in the dumpster.]

The point I am trying to make is that growth often/usually takes risk, though sometimes

the immediate results of risks taken don't seem positive. It seems that perspective and attitude

seem to be the biggest factors in where we go in life.

And relabelling damage into "growth" in no way makes it growth.

Then again, some will argue ALL experiences = growth, and that means that digging your

way out of the rubble of the World Trade Center, or surviving rocket attacks in Iraq as part

of a convoy both produce growth. Under that model, Momentus always produces growth.

However, in each case, does the growth justify the risks involved?]

Wordwolf, I am permanently leaving this GS topic, which has run its course for me. It

has been nice chatting with you.

Regards,

CS

[What's that behind me? Feels like smoke being blown.

I almost miss when people who found me frustrating and a trial actually ADMITTED it

and didn't pretend they existed on some more profound spiritual plateau...]

I think it's an indication of wrong direction when churches become habitual seekers of alternative methods to the simple and powerful reality of "the risen Christ", that is, when Christian life isn't what people think it should amount to and they feel the need to dismantle and reassemble the components in ways that will bring them satisfaction and fulfillment.

"Success" in Christianity can't be artificially manufactured. Well, it can be, but it's not Christianity. The essence and core message of Christianity is a risen savior, Jesus Christ, leading and filling the life of His followers in the here and now in a real tangible way that leads the people to an ever growing and appreciated relationship with God. Applying that to life in general is what Christianity and Christian pursuits is all about.

Encouraging people in that direction does not require what Momentous is described as offering. It would be childish and silly if it wasn't for the damage reported that it does.

Dick Van Patten

Spaceballs

John Hurt

Looks like we need another clue or something.

"You can't keep playing Parises Squares like you're twenty-one years old.

One of these days you're going to fall and break your neck... and I won't be able to heal that so easily."

"Actually... I wasn't playing Parises Squares..."

"Mmm... Worf's calisthenic program again..."

"No..."

"Oh? What were you doing?"

"I was trying to feed Spot."

"Data's cat?"

"I told Data I'd feed it while he was away.

All I remember is setting down the food... and then a hissing ball of fur came out of nowhere.

I hate cats."

"So just as I'm leaving the reception, a Ktarian walks up to me and says...

'...So Diane... I understand you're an empath. I'm a very...sensitive man myself.

I'm doing a thesis on interspecies mating rituals.

Would you care to join me in some empirical research?"

"Don't tell me -- Doctor Mizan."

"That's right."

"He's notorious. But he really is an expert on interspecies mating practices."

"Did you help him with his research, Counselor?"

"Absolutely not."

"But I thought that topic interested you."

"Yes... but..."

"I'll explain it to you later, Data."

"It wasn't any better at the physiognomy workshop. Doctor Vassbinder gave an hour long dissertation on the

ionization effect of warp nacelles -- before he realized the topic was supposed to be psychology."

"Why didn't somebody tell him?"

"There was never an opportunity, never a pause.

He just kept talk-ing like he was speak-ing in one in-credibly long, run-on sen-tence...

.....It was almost hypnotic."

"Geordi -- I believe I have an explanation. According to the plasma conversion sensor, the starboard engine has been in continuous operation for over forty-seven days."

"Forty-seven days? Let's take a look at that sensor -- it must be malfunctioning."

"I'll check the fuel consumption logs..."

"My internal chronometer and the ship's computer are perfectly synchronized. There does not appear to be a temporal discrepancy."

"Captain -- I believe his species mistook the artificial singularity, which the Romulans use in their engine, for a natural one...

a black hole. They tried to use it as a nest. "

"In much the same way that deep sea divers can experience nitrogen narcosis -- you experienced

a form of temporal narcosis."

"I have boiled the same amount of water in this kettle sixty-two times. In some cases, I ignored the kettle.

In others, I watched it intently. In every instance, the water reached its boiling point in precisely fifty-one point seven seconds."

"Maury, I am out of control. Yeah, I use drugs. I can do what I waunt, biatch! Yeah, I have sex, and I don't use protection!"

Cartman getting on the Maury Povich show.

" Don't worry. There are no stupid answers, just stupid people. "

Mr Garrison's typical snarkiness.

"Do your impersonation of David Caruso's career!"

An often-quoted line from the first episode--when Kyle needed Ike to drop into the snow.

"You know what? I've learned something today..."

Stan at the end of many episodes.

Respect my authorit-ay!"

Cartman, with one of his most famous lines.

"But, I'm a psychic."

"No, dude. You're a douche."

"I'm not a douche. What if I really believed dead people talk to me?"

"Then, you're a STUPID douche."

Stan and John Edwards. We discussed this episode on the GSC before.

"TIMAH! And the Lords of the Underworld!"

Timmy's famous "TIMAH!" and "his" rock-band.

"But, ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk.

But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!"

"Dammit!"

"What?"

"He's using the Chewbacca Defense!"

"Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?

That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case?

Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me.

I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense?

Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember,

when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation,

does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, it does not make sense!

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

Johnny Cochran and the famous Chewbacca Defense.

If you've never seen it, you should catch it off YouTube at some point.

It's cited online as a tactic of distraction.

"But what if when I'm putting on the nose, the snowman comes to life and tries to kill me?!"

"Tweek, when has that ever happened except for that one time?"

A reference to one of the aborted pilot episodes, and Tweek is mentioned here.

That's the jumpy kid whose dad runs a coffee shop, and drinks loads of coffee.

"We have to return the 'Lord of the Rings' to the Two Towers."

Their LotR spoof episode, where they took the tape of LotR back to the Two Towers video store.

"You want some Cheesy Poofs, too?"

"Yeah, I want Cheesy Poofs!"

C'mon, where else have you heard of Cheesy Poofs?

"You know who I am, don't you?"

"Well, you ain't Fiona Apple, and if you ain't Fiona Apple, I don't give a rat's a@$$."

I mentioned this once.

This is what Officer BarBrady said to Barbra Streisand.

"Step one: Steal underpants, Step two: (silence), Step Three: Profit!!!"

This was the grand plan of the underwear-stealing gnomes, who only lacked a way to

get to the profit stage. It's a catch-phrase in some circles.

Go, Raf!

Nope.

I haven't checked in on this thread. If I had, I'd have said South Park after the first clue.

Unmistakeably.

counting people at HQ and Gunnison I would put the number at ~3000 in the U.S. There are still 5000+ in Africa. Factor in any other internationals and I would put the number at ~8500. There are no published figures as has been noted, but that's a best estimate.

And that's ~3000 in the US, at most-including the children.

And there are still adults leaving.

And there are still kids leaving when they're of age.

And new people are almost impossible to bring in, or especially RETAIN.

Small wonder twi's been hiding their numbers.

Oh, and the way corps has been graduating classes as big as FIVE MEMBERS lately.

And some of them are people forced to retake stuff as a show of loyalty.

Sooner or later, each frog eventually notices that the water in the pot is approaching a boil,

and some continue to jump ship.

Some, of course, will proudly boil rather than leave "God's pot".

For one of the real problems about running an organization by people who lack credentials.. look at Der Vey.

A guy who worked in a LUMBERYARD was chosen to head up the finances..

A second-rate JOCK was chosen as PRESIDENT.

(notice I didn't say "athlete" )

A Beretta-bearing THUG was chosen to run the work in a COUNTRY.

Holy smokes..

And there was no talking to these guys, no common sense.. neither SPIRITUAL sense, which they falsly ascribed to themselves.

They were better, in their own eyes, than those who had valid qualifications.

Ole doc had a valid Masters, there was no excuse for him as such..

But I remember him complaining, "wa, wa wa.. I can't do what I wanna, all you smart guys are trying to run this thing by your senses.." when those who qualified were RIGHT.

"Well, we know da verd.. " or "Father told me.." "end of 'discussion', THUS SAYETH THE LORD"

loy did that with the full time ministers debacle, when he was practicing the morals and sexual abstinence of a Guinea Pig.

To this day, anybody in power in that place won't admit it was a mistake.

CES is suffering the same fate.

Those on top are.. untouchable.

Until the lawyers get involved..

I thought that was worth repeating.

Well, you can ask..

but I think that's fairly valid, Pond. Look at the response people got about the prophecy thingy-

"READ MY BOOK".

One thing your thought suggests to me.. with all of the "prophecies", "counter-prophecies", blaming, maneuvering.. the past middle age wolves have no place left to go. They lack the stamina and charisma to really work up a following anymore. So what do they do? They turn on themselves.

I'm glad I'm not directly in the middle of all this.

I feel sad for those who are.

Apparently there is no "honor among thieves", or thugs for that matter, anymore..[/i]

This was worth repeating, also...

Shields UP !!!

( Hi Sprawled Out )

Dr W was a liar and a thief?

That is what I call a direct evil accusation.

[sounds like you're calling the speaker "evil" for exposing a liar and a thief.

Or did you mean that differently?

That's fascinating- all the prophets of old would likewise be considered "evil" for performing

their assigned function. Many people in power claimed that, and inflicted suffering on them

for that. Remember what they did to Jeremiah? And he wasn't one of the one who was killed

outright for speaking up for God. You place yourself in the same camp as their afflicters when

you claim those who speak up are automatically "evil."

(I suppose the lookout on the Titanic-who spotted an iceberg- he was also "speaking evil" or some

other renamed foolishness.)

vpw performed direct evil.

He lied, he plagiarized, he stole, he deceived, he raped, he drugged, he exposed himself to

females, he played a pornographic bestiality video for some of the corps, he screamed at

people who failed to prostrate themselves sufficiently for him,

and other things.

All of those have been documented, in detail. By eyewitnesses and victims, and

sometimes official documents of twi. They're NOT hard to find.]

As I said before,

there is a thing called the bondage of corruption that is in the world through Lust.

and there is only one way to escape it.

Jesus.

[ultimately, yes. This does not dismiss the functions of RIGHT ACTION and

ABSTAINING from even the APPEARANCE of evil, let alone the PERFORMANCE of evil.]

That is the truth I care about.

In the world, we are all guilty as sin.

In Christ we are cleansed from all impurities.

[And all the OTHER truths are those you care NOTHING about-

like the ongoing performance of evil-so long as you approve of the performer's doctrine

and delivery-

and it's not YOU or YOURS that are being victimized.

I bet your pious posturing tune would change in an INSTANT if one of those

so-called servants of God drugged and raped your wife or daughter.

Would it be "Oh, turn to Jesus, sweet one, he will deliver you from your suffering?"

NO-

it would be "He did WHAT? I'll take care of this-where'd I leave my pistol and baseball bat?"

And if your response would NOT be outrage,

then SHAME ON YOU.

SHAME ON YOU for having such a callous, atrophied heart that you can't see the need

to avenge the suffering of the innocent.]

I have observed a ton of good fruit over the years.

Great friendships, healed marriages (mine being one) , inspired teachings and prophecies that energize genuine Faith and Love.

John Lynn, in particular, taught me to follow the Lord Jesus,

so that I don't have to be mislead by men.

[With the one hand, and taught you to follow him with the other-as this post indicates to me...]

So that I can have a genuine relationship with Jesus,

"...who picks up the threads of a broken heart

and weaves them together again..."

My Lord Jesus leads me to extend mercy, love, goodness, and wisdom

towards people who have not totally escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I'm one of those people too.

how did it go, Living Victoriously in Peace?

'Do you want to be frustrated?

Look at others

Do You wnat to be miserable?

Look at yourself

Do you want to have Peace?

Look at Jesus Christ'

[Never confuse a slogan for a policy, doctrine OR spiritual walk.]

and let me add,

while you're looking at Jesus,

he will show you how he looks at others and yourself,

and he will show you how you can serve him in working to heal and restore our hearts.

It is the most wonderful thing.

[Which has little to do with this discussion, actually.

Now, back to the topic of discussion...]

I recall discussing VPW with John Lynn 15 or so years ago,

and John wanting me to see how much "evil" was involved in the Way.

He didn't think I was seeing it for some reason.

I did, but

I still don't care to focus on that crap.

All that evil is fairly minimal

when compared to the tremendous Truth that was held forth by Dr W.

Likewise John L.

it's the same old story, the same old spiritual battle,

the same " strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow..."

[i'm going to spend some time here because I find this an especially vile post]

"I recall discussing VPW with John Lynn 15 or so years ago,

and John wanting me to see how much "evil" was involved in the Way.

He didn't think I was seeing it for some reason.

I did, but

I still don't care to focus on that crap."

[in other words,

John Lynn himself was well aware of the evils in twi (and is now oblivious to evils in ces/stfi

even when specifics are brought to him by people who know better),

and you consider the evils done by vpw himself, lcm and the trained cadre under vpw

as INSIGNIFICANT.

Women were raped, women were drugged, THEN raped, children were beaten 1/2 to

unconsciousness, some developing long-term psychological damage,

some children were molested and twi'ers did a breakin to steal evidence against the

"minister" who did it, and relocated him-more than once,

one man blew his brains out because lcm insisted on repeatedly having sex with that man's wife,

vast coverups of all the above were done,

women were raped as the result of mandatory hitchhiking to LEAD-and vpw himself blew off

the accounts and did nothing to change the program,

one corps participant was crippled from injuries caused by an accident in an unsafe vehicle

used by the corps- then was kicked out of the corps and committed suicide,

people leaving twi were told it would be better if they just killed themselves,

the corps were treated like slave labour for life-by vpw himself,

and the doctrine of "the lockbox"-all these things were PERMISSABLE for the top echelon

and anyone else should remain silent-

besides other evils that escape me at the moment-

and you considered all of that INSIGNIFICANT.][

"All that evil is fairly minimal

when compared to the tremendous Truth that was held forth by Dr W.

Likewise John L."

[First of all, lives were ENDED, lives were LOST, lives were RUINED,

and you consider those "fairly minimal."

I thank God you are not in charge of determining the value of MY OWN LIFE.

I consider each person worth more than that-

even when they utter such callous, despicable things.

To you, lives are EXPENDABLE

so long as the organization and its programs are reflecting the doctrines

you want.

That's what you just said.

Second of all,

you appear remarkably ill-informed as to the proven doctrinal errors in twi at the pen

of vpw, and the practical errors he did and taught were perfectly acceptable

(if you were in the inner cadre)

and are remarkably ill-informed to the degree that the entire package of twi-

excepting the permissiveness and policies I objected to-

were all ripped off from other Christians.

The entire pfal class was taken straight from the works of other Christians-

Leonard, Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger- with vpw's name added and their names removed.

All the early twi books were taken directly from the books of other Christians-

with vpw's name added and their names removed.

All the later twi books were the work of twi research people-

with vpw's name added and their names never mentioned-

and not even mentioned by category (as in "the research dept worked on this".)

Third of all,

you seem determined to make

THE SAME MISTAKE

and give John L a free pass.

People's lives were ruined? Some had breakdowns? Some were destroyed by

Momentus, "personal prophecies", and ridicule from the pulpit?

Oh, that's not important- he's teaching the Doctrine I respect!

Ignore the lost and damaged lives.

In conclusion, you're reflecting a position of

"I got mine-who cares if you suffer?"

All the pious posting on the internet can't wipe away a callous heart, nor excuse it.]

"it's the same old story, the same old spiritual battle,"

[it is indeed.

Lives are STILL being sacrificed at the whims of leadership,

and other lives are GLOSSING THAT OVER.

I consider that SPIRITUAL DARKNESS.

You may consider that something else- like "excusable" or "crap" or "minimal".

Jesus cares about ALL Christians- not just the leaders-

and would NEVER allow the one lost sheep to be cast aside.

He makes sure the lost sheep is found.

How do you think he'd address the attitude that suffering Christians are "minimal"?]

"You can't keep playing Parises Squares like you're twenty-one years old.

One of these days you're going to fall and break your neck... and I won't be able to heal that so easily."

"Actually... I wasn't playing Parises Squares..."

"Mmm... Worf's calisthenic program again..."

"No..."

"Oh? What were you doing?"

"I was trying to feed Spot."

"Data's cat?"

"I told Data I'd feed it while he was away.

All I remember is setting down the food... and then a hissing ball of fur came out of nowhere.

I hate cats."

"So just as I'm leaving the reception, a Ktarian walks up to me and says...

'...So Diane... I understand you're an empath. I'm a very...sensitive man myself.

I'm doing a thesis on interspecies mating rituals.

Would you care to join me in some empirical research?"

"Don't tell me -- Doctor Mizan."

"That's right."

"He's notorious. But he really is an expert on interspecies mating practices."

"Did you help him with his research, Counselor?"

"Absolutely not."

"But I thought that topic interested you."

"Yes... but..."

"I'll explain it to you later, Data."

"It wasn't any better at the physiognomy workshop. Doctor Vassbinder gave an hour long dissertation on the

ionization effect of warp nacelles -- before he realized the topic was supposed to be psychology."

"Why didn't somebody tell him?"

"There was never an opportunity, never a pause.

He just kept talk-ing like he was speak-ing in one in-credibly long, run-on sen-tence...

.....It was almost hypnotic."

"Geordi -- I believe I have an explanation. According to the plasma conversion sensor, the starboard engine has been in continuous operation for over forty-seven days."

"Forty-seven days? Let's take a look at that sensor -- it must be malfunctioning."

"I'll check the fuel consumption logs..."

"Is anyone else having problems concentrating on this? I just can't seem to concentrate."

"Maybe we should send you to a concentration camp."

"Maury, I am out of control. Yeah, I use drugs. I can do what I waunt, biatch! Yeah, I have sex, and I don't use protection!"

" Don't worry. There are no stupid answers, just stupid people. "

"Do your impersonation of David Caruso's career!"

"You know what? I've learned something today..."

"Well, that about does it. If you have any questions, I'll leave information packets up front."

"Oh that's good, we need some more toilet paper."

Respect my authorit-ay!"

"But, I'm a psychic."

"No, dude. You're a douche."

"I'm not a douche. What if I really believed dead people talk to me?"

"Then, you're a STUPID douche."

"Umm, Mom..."

"Yes, honey?"

"Um, can I got to the Special Olympics and beat all the special children?"

"No, honey, I believe that is for special children."

"You mean, I'm not special? I thought you said I was special!"

"Okay, children. Let's all gather around and bob for stupid apples now. You go first, Bebe.

That's good. Just use those mouth muscles like the girls in Beijing."

"TIMAH! And the Lords of the Underworld!"

"But, ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk.

But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!"

"Dammit!"

"What?"

"He's using the Chewbacca Defense!"

"Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?

That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case?

Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me.

I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense?

Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember,

when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation,

does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this SUPPOSED jury, it does not make sense!

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

"But what if when I'm putting on the nose, the snowman comes to life and tries to kill me?!"

"Tweek, when has that ever happened except for that one time?"

"We have to return the 'Lord of the Rings' to the Two Towers."

"You want some Cheesy Poofs, too?"

"Yeah, I want Cheesy Poofs!"

"You know who I am, don't you?"

"Well, you ain't Fiona Apple, and if you ain't Fiona Apple, I don't give a rat's a@$$."

"Step one: Steal underpants, Step two: (silence), Step Three: Profit!!!"

One in a million you...

Larry Graham

*looks it up* Correct! Your turn.

I remember these scenes, and Deanna doing impersonations of the speakers, but I think they were all incidental to the plot of the episode, which still escapes me.

George

The last one wasn't Deanna doing an impersonation, it was Picard.

You are trying far too hard....