WordWolf

Traveling salesman walks up to a house and knocks on the door.

When it opens, he sees a 12-year-old boy holding a half-consumed bottle of whiskey in one hand and a lit cigar in the other.

"Excuse me, young man, but are your parents home?" the salesman asks.

The kid responds: "Does it f-ing look like it?"

In the version I heard, the door was opened by a 12-year old boy.

He's wearing a fedora, and a towel is tied around his neck like a cape.

He has a cigar in his mouth, a snifter of brandy in his left hand, and a tv remote control in his right.

(This kid was really maximizing his time...)

Facts are facts opinion is opinion

How true!

Several posters said this is what they were told PERSONALLY.

That is a fact.

WD claims they are lying.

That is an opinion.

This is not difficult for most people to track.

I don't know why... maybe it's the "Great One" reference...

Wayne Gretsky's in this movie????

Thanks for the link.

For those wondering, I scanned the link, and it came up clean. (Can't be too careful nowadays...)

I downloaded the zip file and extracted it, too.

Amazing how much text can fit when it's left as a simple txt file rather than bloated into a doc or something.

Funny thing-

I know a song that begins ALMOST with this line, so it's probably a completely DIFFERENT song.

I've posted-and post-on boards with LOTS of Trinitarians who are loving.

Except when there's certain doctrinal discussions, things tend to go very smoothly-

and I've yet to see any board where SOMETHING wasn't controversial.

Mr Hammeroni did as well.

Oh yeah.. and the "counselling" advice given to some people..

"take your kid out in the wilderness, where no one can hear his/her screams as you beat the *^#@ out of them.."

No, "they" won't give you an autographed copy of their book of "sound advice" either.

I agreed with Ham...

Of course,

if it's not in writing, nobody was ever told it, no matter how many GSC'ers insist they were told EXACTLY THAT

by corps, LC and so on.

Nobody was "ugly" with you. Mild sarcasm, at best, is what I said, which is what you quoted.

It RESPONDED to what you ALREADY posted, and had nothing to do with your imaginary

"baiting". Someone gave personal testimony. You said "liar." We contested your response.

That's not "baiting."

The claim, however, looks like someone ELSE was given bad doctrine from twi, suffered by trying to carry

it out, and YOU'RE claiming to be the suffering one because you heard later that some people were taught

some stuff you didn't like or agree with.

How about a drop of sympathy for the ones who actually had to try to LIVE it?

Rascal I have been to my share of couples advances as well ,so did my wife attend womens advances,marrying into the Corps I went through the grill as well. I never once heard such a doctrine propounded. I don't dismiss this as a isolated instance, I do notice in all of the people I know from all over the country the only place this seems to be the opinion - is here. Interesting other women do not share that opinion I find that telling coming from people that only want to post dailly of some complaint about The Way.

This may come as a shock, but the people who are SPEAKING UP about twi are here.

Those who wish to remain silent, or refuse to remember, or insist it was all sweetness and light,

DON'T come here.

And "here", we have people from all over the country (and countries), and across twi's decades,

including recent evacuees. Different people, who were in different places at different times,

have come forth and said it was taught to them.

The logical approach is to admit they probably WERE taught that-even if you weren't.

Nero replied again:

You do realize that different regions did have different things they said to different people? I find other people's accounts are often not like mine - but I don't doubt they were told such things.

There were a bunch of people coming in from different walks of life and different religions... so they brought their crap with them.

Some of us got the "if your husband beats you - it's your fault" lecture. I didn't get this one.

Some of us got the "you have to be submissive lecture - but your husband should be nice" lecture. I got this one.

And your wife and friends probably got the "good/decent" lecture were they weren't told your husband is the god in your life.

For example:

I was told by some people that abortion was okay - here are some scriptures.

I was told by another fellowship coordinator that abortion was bad.

Just depends on the person... and the person teaching.

As did Watered Garden.

I was taught by a woman who was a graduate of the WC and a BC who was a graduate of the WC that if ANYTHING untoward happened to my husband, my son, or myself, it was because I was not submitting myself sufficiently to my husband. This included dismissal from the FWC due to our son being a rebellious child, husband having a hard time finding work, and my being diagnosed as an insulin dependent diabetic. All of this, without exception, was my fault because I was not sufficiently meek, humble, submissive and obedient. I'm sure some of you will strongly agree with this scenario; however, guess who strongly DISAGREED? MY HUSBAND, THAT'S WHO!!! He thought it was the stupidest thing he'd ever heard. I was and have been and still am doing my best to be the wife Prov. 31:10-31 describes. (That description, incidentally, was twisted by TWI into unrecognizable legalism.) I mean, WHY is the wife doing these things? Because she loves God, loves her husband, loves her kids, loves her home. If it's not out of love and respect it's not worth it. And it is a given that the husband is a wonderful man. One "good clocking" and the deal's off.

And I will tell you something else. I never got to know the BC very well, but the 6th WC grad ran her household and her husband's life with a sweet, submissive smile and an iron fist. This guy actually told me privately some things that indicated he wasn't very happy.

None of the posters who are in favor of a man beating the crap out of a woman have shown me book, chapter, and verse. I think any man who would do so is seriously lacking in coping skills, self-esteem, and the milk of human kindness.

A while back something was bothering me and I was upset and very talkative and persistent about it; some might even call it nagging. My husband was not happy about this after a few days/weeks of my distress, and heartily wished I would stop talking about it. I did, of my own free will, so he would be at peace. Looking back, I realize this was the kind of situation JohnIam describes, in which he would believe I needed and deserved a good clocking, maybe a couple black eyes, a broken nose, and some smashed teeth?

But my husband didn't do that. He just patiently waiting for me to get ahold of myself. Wonder why? Could it be because he loves God, he loves me, and he loves himself?

Oh, PS: The timeline for the submissive stuff I was taught was 1993-96. It was a big whoopty-do at the time and even earlier, when LCM was blaming wives for taking their husbands out of the ministry.

WG

As did rascal.

Dove,

Couples advances were very different than the womens advances. I have attended both. Corpes women and wives were different even more so...I don`t believe you were corpes or a womn, so for you to atte,pt to speak authoritatively about either is silly.

You say that only here at grease spot have you read of people portraying a different image of the twi than you personally viewed.

Could it be that God is introducing you to a whole different set of people with different experiences than you have had prior contact with? Could it be he is working in people to present a different side of the story? A different pov that gives a more complete picture of what happened in twi and why?

Could it be an opportunity to be moved by compassion for those who suffered...rather than further recriminations and nastiness?

Dove, I am as real as any other person that you have talked to. No we have not met in the flesh...but we have spoken on the phone. We know and love the same people. They would be more than willing to vouch for my veracity , IF< IF< IF, if you REALLY cared.

The thing is...you don`t WANT what I say to be true...it is too damaging to your beliefs. You have to then some how invalidate what I say in order to live with your perceptions...in order to hold to your current belief....I have to be invalidated...I am a liar or I exaggerate or it never happened.

Do you know that God probably cares JUST as much for me as he does those that you talk to in the flesh? That he works in my life?

How do you think it makes folks feel when you call us liars? When you insist that our accounts never happened?

It sucks Dove, yet somehow you seem to think because I am typing words with my fingers instead of speaking them out of my mouth in a face to face situation....that it is ok to be mean....to lead the gang banging.

Your words whether typed or spoken hurt, yet by the doctrine that you hold as truth....these actions are ok and justifiable.

Love God and love your neighbor friend, if what you do is not lining up with that then it is time to examine ourselves as Christians :(

Your continuing to dismiss accounts of different people from different places and different times as all being part of some singular

imaginary "Greasespot region" was responded to by Tom, and I think he has the right of it.

ummm... could that be because this is the most prominent ex-way site? ...could that be because others are still bound by fear of reprisal should they speak up?

It's 'of no profit' to waste time with you and the other veepee worshipers!

Oh, WD, want to change the subject and draw some heat off of John? Ok, I'll bite.

I guessed you missed the ugly part I responded to. Let me remind you

"Oh, that's right, I forgot....

if it wasn't in a class or in print, it never happened in twi, how silly of me....

I love this new posting style here bait the poster then when they respond they are the bad one.

An old bull fighter once said if you don't want the bull then don't wave the red flag for him to come.

Don't pretend to be an injured party, it's a poor fit.

Here's a quick recap to what happened:

rascal said

I remember being taught in twi, that if my husband ever hit me ...it was my fault....that if it ever occured, I should have never pushed him that far.

I remember being taught that if he ever committed adultery, it would have been my fault for not being sexy enough, appealing enough, inventive enough to hold his attention.

I remember believing this stuff....that it was up to me to be sharp enough to ward this stuff off.

If there was alcohol or abuse issues, squandered money issues....it was up to me to love him more, to pray for him more, but other than that I had no say so, no recourse, was not permitted any input.

This was taught as standard marriage conduct. This was what I was taught was required of a virtuous woman.

I wanted to be a virtuous woman, so I accepted whatever mistreatment was administered by tc, spouse, anyone...meekly and with humility, no matter how unwarranted, how unfair with the determination that I would try my hardest to do better.

We were taught this in twi, and it became part of our thinking process, to the point that I never ever questioned it`s validity.

YOU used the OLD posting style-from all the way back to waydale, even, to say

I was just wondering just when and where this was taught. I seem to have missed that class

Which was used, as of old, to take someone's personal testimony, and, instead of saying

"I wasn't in the room when it was taught," you said "I wasn't taught this-therefore it wasn't taught and you're a liar".

OLD posting style. Don't pretend it's not what you were saying.

I replied to YOUR post with

A number of places, this came up here and there, usually NOT during the teachings, but during other activities and "down-time."

Usually, it came up TO A WOMAN, since it was about what they expected HER to do. Since you're a guy, it's less likely you

would get this lecture. The lecture you would get would be about making sure your wife knew who was boss, and about

making all the decisions.

Oh, that's right, I forgot....

if it wasn't in a class or in print, it never happened in twi, how silly of me.... <_<

That was a reminder that-as has come up a lot-different people were told different things in twi, and not everyone's

experience was identical. Just as some things you were taught were supposedly close to perfect, others have

reported things they were taught that were far from perfect. There's room for both of you to tell the truth and say

different things.

Your reply?

Right, Another undocumented doctrine Of course how convenient, I should have known...........

Repeating you're calling it a lie-without saying the WORD "lie", of course...

potato spoke up, as someone ELSE who heard this....

the women's sessions at couples advances consisted of those types of teachings, invariably. they were usually subtle, but always soul-stealing. wow training was another place I heard it, from B. Gr**n himself, a special confrontation just for me, but in front of a small group of outgoing wows. and strangely enough, the wow field was the first place my ex raised his fist to me.

when I left my ex, it was because of lying and violence, and M@rk W@11@ce still tried to talk me into staying married because I'd "regret it".

And rascal replied

Dove, that was kind of ugly.

I was taught this during different womens advances in different states. Some of this was covered during pre marriage counceling with our lc.

I do not know if the teachings were more intense because I was marrying corpes and was only app myself....that I took it more seriously because of that.

I know that my spouse was under tremendous pressure to *keep me in line* so to speak...because in marrying me...he was putting his reputation on the line.

Not that he cared....I was the one terrified of bringing him shame, of reflecting badly on his spirituality. I never wanted him to be sorry that he chose me instead of a corpes woman.\

Now Dove, think about it....you not being a woman, and not being corpes, is it really any suprise that you wouldn`t be aware of what was taught at womens advances or in one on one private marriage sessions between individual couples and lc`s....or when a woman was being groomed to be a corpes man`s wife....???

It would be tempting to dismiss my account as exaggerated or as an isolated instance....except there seems to be others here who were held to the same rediculous standard.

Please don`t close your ears and heart to the horror that this standard created for women who were required to submit to horrible abuse with no recourse because we were taught that God gave that man ultimate and total authority over every decision in our lives.

To leave....for any reason would be to lose God`s hand of protection and blessing over ourselves and our children. Most of us could not face life without God.

Funny enough....it was this teaching....it was this standard that kept me at mark`s side when exiting twi....I was bitterly disapointed and angry that he would leave the ministry that taught us God`s word, and had I thought that there was any way for me to leave him and remain in God`s will, I would have done it in a heart beat and stayed with the ministry.

As did Nero.

I don't remember ever remember getting pamphlets or note pages handed to me about how to treat my husband. I think if anyone sent out an official document stating literally all of the junk they ever taught us there would be more eyebrows raised.

A few things I was taught:

Guys - treat your wives well and they'll be good for you. They didn't go into detail about what they should do to be nice. They said to listen to your wife - but you had the final say.

Chicks - God > Your Husband > Your kids > You. Be submissive to your husband. And I quote: "Some women never are submissive enough to be married. If you cannot submit to a husband, then you shouldn't get married ever." Yes... taught that. I was pretty blinded by twi - but that never jived with me. Which was why I never wanted to marry anyone who was taught such things. Ugh.

All - Don't get married to anyone outside TWI - it just makes things harder if you don't agree on everything.

They usually had informal sex/family classes were speakers would talk about their marriages or how to have a good marriage. No leaflets or anything. You must take notes. I have them buried around here somewhere.

Since you can't take our word for it. What kind of documentation do you need? Notes with a date in a sealed envelope? Or a laundry list of wifey doctrine with the TWI president's signature on it? I'm not MA so I might be able to get it. XP

It's one of my favourites! Yes, let's see who else chimes in.

Ah, I see.

However, I DID post a first line this time... :)

Turns out the repairman hates Norton and always replaces it with AVG!

This was an improvement.

And always replaces IE 7.0 with 6.0!

Microsoft frequently fixes security problems very, very late.

IE 7 has better security than 6.0, and has more functionality for websites, some of which won't render

as well under 6.0 as they do under 7.0.

Up to you as to whether you want to upgrade or not, but why aren't you using Firefox?

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/

I appreciate initiative, but I would like to have been consulted.

They would, of course, restore my system free of charge, but I think I'll stick with AVG for a while. My Norton would have had to been renewed in a couple of weeks, anyway. And I'm fine with IE 6.0, though I didn't have any problems with 7.0, either. Assuming my Windows firewall is any good, this should work out OK.

George

Ah, you're just using the Windows internal firewall?

You're trusting MICROSOFT for your system security?

:blink:

I've always wondered where do the CES people go to air greevences or to complain? Is there a Ces or ex-ces web forum somewhere?

Actually, ces HAD a messageboard, but they SHUT IT DOWN.

It was upon request of ces-people that this subforum's info arrived.

So, if ces people go anywhere to have OPEN COMMUNICATION, it seems the GSC is the only game in town!

Robin Williams

Good Morning, Vietnam

Robert Wuhl

Is this "South Park"?

I'm supposing waysider was right.

Although we're not RESTRICTED to OPENING lines to songs, a few of those are rather recognizable:

"Please allow me to introduce myself- I'm a man of wealth and taste."

Oh yeah.. and the "counselling" advice given to some people..

"take your kid out in the wilderness, where no one can hear his/her screams as you beat the *^#@ out of them.."

No, "they" won't give you an autographed copy of their book of "sound advice" either.

Of course,

if it's not in writing, nobody was ever told it, no matter how many GSC'ers insist they were told EXACTLY THAT

by corps, LC and so on.

She's done stand-up, and "Mystery Men", and a few other things.

What's that one she called something like "Cyrano"?

Oh, right!

the Truth about Cats and Dogs

Uma Thurman

Batman & Robin

I was just wondering just when and where this was taught.

A number of places, this came up here and there, usually NOT during the teachings, but during other activities and "down-time."

Usually, it came up TO A WOMAN, since it was about what they expected HER to do. Since you're a guy, it's less likely you

would get this lecture. The lecture you would get would be about making sure your wife knew who was boss, and about

making all the decisions.

I seem to have missed that class

Oh, that's right, I forgot....

if it wasn't in a class or in print, it never happened in twi, how silly of me.... <_<

I think we could have gotten it just from the first line you posted...

Would the correct "pew" be the episode where Garak is revealed to have had an implant in his brain to help him resist torture? I think it started to fail, causing him all sorts of pain.

George

Yes, that's the episode called "the Wire."

I was just about to post some easier-to-identify quotes.

Bashir's all over this episode as he tries to fix Garak.

The problem was, Garak had been using the thing as a sort of narcotic, since he hated living on the station.

Eventually, he left it on, and when it started to break down and it was shut off, his body was dependent upon

its effects. Garak also spun Bashir a number of stories of what he did that got him fired from the

Obsidian Order- he killed innocents, no-he let innocents go, no-he had a falling out with his friend Elim, and

Elim framed him before he finished framing Elim, and so on.....

...then Bashir finds out Elim's Garak's first name!

Go, George.

For those who missed it the first time, I thought I'd bring this one back.

Is this the DS9 episode where Kira's boyfriend is dying, and Bashir keeps him alive with computerized nono-whatzits, until there's basically nothing of the original Bajoran left? Kira finally tells him to "pull the plug."

George

No.

"Right church, wrong pew."

(snip)

I just don't believe that the proper response to biting words (from either gender) is a fist.

I agree. What I'd do is try to calmly reason with the person first, one on one. If that didn't work, I start yelling back. If that didn't work, I'd seek marriage counselling. If that didn't work, I'd leave. By that time, one would probably be thankful to leave anyway.

I agree with Oldiesman.

"I can't believe I'm eating lunch with a man who thinks The Never- Ending Sacrifice is dull."

"I just thought it got a little redundant after a while.

I mean... the author is supposed to be chronicling seven generations of a single family... but he tells the same story over and over again... All the characters live lives of selfless duty to the state... get old... and die. And then the next generation comes along and does it all over again."

"That's the whole point, Doctor."

"I'm a doctor, not a botanist."

"Try not to yell at any more admirals for a while."

"I wasn't yelling. I was expressing my feelings.

Loudly."

"Don't you think you've had enough?"

"On the contrary. Anyone who talks about the numbing effects of liquor is severely overstating the case."

"He did ask for the specifications. Maybe he's trying to find a way to take it out."

"Either way, I think I'd like to have a talk with him when he wakes up."

"You'll have to get in line."

"I'm a doctor. You're my patient. That's all I need to know."

"Wrong again. You need to know who you're trying to save."

"I think you'll find that I'm experiencing some slight deterioration of my cranial nerve cluster."

"Not so slight, I'm afraid. We've got to get you to the Infirmary."

"I don't understand it. I shut down the implant. It can't be affecting his blood chemistry anymore, but toxins are accumulating in his lymphatic tissues."