WordWolf

Maverick

James Coburn

Hudson Hawk

ROTFLMAO...

"Fluffy, please meow in tongues and interpret...."

"Woof woof tweet tweet baa!"

So, Chas,

did you take the WOMBAT?

Honestly couldn't say, there's no posted time and apparently it went up Thursday.

I'd take it tonight. Make sure you have about 45 minutes of uninterrupted time.

It's a TIMED test.

It's also amazingly difficult.

The last one was hard-this one is harder.

If I get the same score this time as I did last time, I'll be impressed.

Oh, and the entry code:

by one ON the other, that doesn't mean stacked in a pile,

it means each superimposed on the last, into one symbol.

No, you're trying to get scores.

What you want to do is sneak in and take the next test.

First, click on the eraser on the desk- it is a Portkey.

It takes you to the door to take the (TIMED) test.

You can spend time working it out yourself, but last time, I wasted a lot of time

on that. So, per Mugglenet, here's the access:

1. Click on the fly (on the window). It turns into a key.

2. Drag this to the keyhole.

3. Stack the shapes on top of each other: Triangle on line, circle on triangle.

4. Click this shape, then click the exam paper to begin.

Expect it to be hard.

Part II was.

A standing Way Corpse working in The Way of the USA Dept. says there are 7000 standing in the U.S.

Forgive me for considering him either A) mistaken, or B) a liar, or C) both.

It's been a long time since they could claim 5000, and they've been hemorrhaging members

since then for years.

Granted, the more people leave, the more hardcore the remaining handful are, and are

less likely to leave, but they still lose numbers from

1) adults leaving

2) kids growing up and leaving

3) deaths of innies for any reason (happens everywhere)

Even if they stopped actively KICKING people out, that's still true.

Meanwhile, the only ways to increase membership #s are to either:

1) attract new people, or

2) increase #s of births.

twi was officially anti-births for a very long time. What other Christian organization ever had

a top leader encourage abortions? Kids were-AND STILL ARE-seen as INCONVENIENCES

since they can't be controlled like an adult can, and don't produce income.

That's more people that can't give twi 10% of their income, and money spent to raise them

doesn't get sent to twi.

If they suddenly changed polices and did a 180 and recommended EVERYONE have kids,

they'd really end up in a jam. They'd lose more control over parents, and have less to offer

FAMILIES, REAL families with REAL lives than they do singles or married "singles".

As for attracting new people, don't make me laugh. twi has nothing to attract them.

Older folk are set in their ways, and younger folk would see twi as quaint, outdated,

and lacking anything to offer.

So, less than 3000 people, including children, in the US. I can't speak for other countries.

As for 7000 in the US, I say, "Bushwah."

On another note, does anyone else remember hearing it said that LCM was not really VP's first choice? I can't remember where I heard it (POP, perhaps?) but it was implied that the other trustees and top leaders were pushing for LCM, but VP wasn't sure he was the best choice. Yet he supposedly went along with it because he was old and tired and didn't think the leadership heeded his advice anymore anyway. Anybody else remember hearing anything like that?

I've read the opposite here-

that those asked pointed to Walter or someone else, and never lcm,

but that vpw picked him over everyone's objections.

BTW, back then, there was some SERIOUS disinformation going around.

I had been told lcm had been chosen the same way Matthias was chosen-

by prayer and a vote, and not by vpw's fiat. Over time, I started hearing

contradictory information on that...and top innies, even, said vpw chose lcm.

The supposed reason vpw picked lcm was that he thought the corps would follow

where the former corps director led. It's also been reported that someone asked

vpw, and he said lcm never questioned him, but did whatever vpw required of him.

If that's true, then the POP comment about vpw considering lcm and cg his top men

makes more sense, since they were the 2 men most likely to follow vpw off a cliff.

If there is a camera for emergency vehicles located on top by the RGY light, if you flash you high beams about 200ft ahead, it will change to green..that was the only way I got to classes and twi on time, since it was mandatory for me to go to fellowship 3x a week(1 1/2 hrs one way) it was a great aide..

How confident are you, looking back, that this is EXACTLY what happened?

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/strobe.asp

I don't normally do this, but I'm bumping the thread so readers can see it in time...

"CSI-Miami?"

Is this the one with the 21st century humans cryogenically frozen and now unfrozen,

and the Klingons from some time ago before the Federation/Klingon treaty?

Is this the one with the 21st century humans cryogenically frozen and now unfrozen,

and the Klingons from some time ago before the Federation/Klingon treaty?

No, it's HEART OF GLORY, isn't it?

When the 3 Klingons show up on the Enterprise.

Fans of the Harry Potter books,

THE THIRD WOMBAT TEST IS OPEN!

That's on JKR's website.

It will be only open for a short time, so don't wait forever!

Just from where I'm sitting,

avoiding social contact is probably a COPING MECHANISM for someone beginning to come down

with Alzheimer's.

If you only deal with people you've known a long time, then the effects can appear to be

minimized. If you continue to deal casually with more people, then the effects of a drifting

or vanishing memory become more prominent- you can't hide that you forgot their names,

who they are, etc.

Further, sheer frustration can cause you to not bother with people, which means to the

outsider that you're anti-social.

So, I don't think it's a symptom OR a behaviour that leads to it, just a response TO symptoms.

Here's where the quotes were:

"The problem is, I feel responsible for her self-nullifying behavior."

Wayne, speaking in Cantonese, to Cassandra. He was a beginner, but somehow he was able

to put together sentences like that one.

""Turn it off, man! Turn it off! It's sucking my will to live!"

Garth, trying to get free of the invention, the Suck-Cut.

(Ever notice the Flowbee was the same invention, and that was sold to people?)

"I mean, Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes that everyone liked. They left that to the Bee Gees."

Wayne talking about selling out.

""Guys! Wait up! I fell on my keys!"

Garth, when they were sneaking, and Garth slipped.

"I'd never done a crazy thing in my life before that night.

Why is it that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic,

yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion it's called murder?"

Ed O'Neill plays this great role as the manager of that donut shop and hangout.

"...marriage is punishment for shoplifting in some countries."

Garth asked if Wayne was going to marry Cassandra.

" Well, I'm a regular visitor here, but Milwaukee has certainly had its share of visitors.

The French missionaries and explorers began visiting here in the late 16th century."

Rocker Alice Cooper in his dressing room after the show in Milwaukee.

"I'm not evil-I'm just good looking."

Alice Cooper, the opening line to his song, "Feed My Frankenstein."

"Anything wrong, Davy?"

"Yeah, I got paid today."

"Yeah, I know what that's like."

"No. You don't understand. They laid me off. I got one of these."

"Yeah, I know how that feels."

"Know what I'd like to do?"

"Yeah I know what you'd like to do. You'd like to find the guy who did it,

rip his still beating heart out of his chest and hold it in front of his face so he can see how black it is before he dies."

"Actually, I was thinking of filing a grievance with the union."

"Well, the world's a twisted place."

Ed O'Neill's character again.

"Did you know that if you stab a man in the dead of winter you can see steam rising out of him?

The Indians though it was his soul escaping from his body."

And again.

My next quote was going to be

"Benjamin is no one's friend.

If Benjamin were an ice cream flavour,

he would be 'Pralines and D**k.' "

Your turn.

"Wayne's World"?

George

Right!

(Yet more from the forbidden posts)

======================

"I admire your research Jr. I have been Digging it to. You attacking my faith. But i still see no threat, regardless of what you have been taught by "mens traditions". think about it Jr. if Christ is God how can he be tempted.

In Heb.4:15 "was in all points tempted as us yet without sin",

but in James 1:13 "God cannot be tempted" See Dr.Wierwille was making the word fit like a hand in a glove. This is one of the problems, you can not make it fit like that because here is a counterdiction in The Christ God thing.

======================

Well Let's Get into the " Accuracy of the rightly divided "

RECEIVE with meekness

RETAIN with Confidence.

RELEASE with boldness

Let us see if we can "dialegatol"(reason). like Paul did with the Jews Acts 17

You bring up a good point glad you did. again I say to you The "Greek" has the answers here too. I know this is taught by Ex-Wayer's but there not hungry for it, or meek to receive. or "they" would have found it by now.

But I think you will move up to the "accuracy".

Let us look at two Greek words translated "Tempted"

Quote:

Apeirastos

This is the word for

Quote:

cannot be tempted

in James 1:13

It is from the Prep. (prefix). "apo" and it is in the Gen. case here.

"apo" here in Gen. is "governing this word "peirazo"

so this is a compound word in Greek. translated "tempt" in Eng.

"Apo" in Gen= the instrument of means, the cause of action, by way of, through, by. It works something like "Ek"= "out of" When in the Gen.

James 1:13

Let no man say when he is tempted, he is tempted of God: for "God "cannot be tempted" with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

"God cannot be "aperrastos" with evil,"

"aperrastos" is a driv. of "peirazo"

now the Eng. Kjv will throw you off track here. Because you do not see "apo" carried over correctly to our understanding here.

does this make any sense if we translate with "apo" in the Eng ?

"Let no man say when he is "peirazo", he is "peirazo" of God: for "God "aperrastos" with evil, neither "peirazo" he any man."

So ask yourself how do we Transl. it ?

See how "accurate God's-Breathed Word" is in Koine GK. The "pnuma hagion" knew that this would delete "MEN AND THERE TRADITION"

the usage of this word cluster ,"aperrastos" here, tells us temptation does not come "by means" of God.

Theos, Elohim, YHWH, Pnuma, can be "peirazo"

Heb. 415 what Greek word do we see here?

"Was in all points "peirazo" like as without sin"

Applied to "Thee Holy Spirit":

Acts 5:9

Then Peter said unto her, how is it that you have agreed to "peirazo"

"ho pnuma Kurios". notice the order of Greek words

("ho" same as "0").

God Bless

============================

Now I would like to take the time here, to tell you of a lot of "Ex-Wayer's"

have started a lot of offshoots of the "Way Intl." They will tell you "We are not in" the Way" or we do not fellowship with them. they are very careful in hiding "The Way International" from young converts, because there is a thing called "the Internet".

Not long ago I was at a PFAL class and I said "the way is not correct in this" I noticed the reaction "sssshhhhh" the leader said in a low voice looking at me, with his back turned toward the Young Potential Convert (which was a 50-60 year old man)

Here I want to say that the term "Ex-wayer" does not mean there "now Christian" and seen the "light". But they do not Fellowship regularly with the "Way International", And still hold to the Dr. VP. Wierwille's "butchering" of the Word.

Now here is "some" Ex-Wayer Web sites

...........WARNING THESE GROUPS ARE A DANGEROUS NON CHRISTIAN CULT'S

If you are Not stable in Christian Teaching you should Stay Out of these links

If you belong to a Cult Awareness Group add these to the "DANGER" List

Off Shoots of the Way International

Akribos Theological Fellowship.

Quote:

http://www.akribos.org/

Christian Family Fellowship.

Quote:

http://www.cffm.org/

Ryburn Christian Clarion.

Quote:

http://www.godslivingroom.com/

The Way International.

Quote:

http://www.theway.org/

Try-God.

Quote:

http://www.try-god.com/

Word Centered Productions.

Quote:

http://wordcentered.com/index.html

Cortright Fellowship.

Quote:

http://www.cortright.org/

Another Way Ministry.

Quote:

http://www.awm.org.au/

Christian Family Fellowship Mid. Michigan.

Quote:

http://www.cffmm.org/

Positive Word Ministry.

Quote:

http://www.posword.org/

Ministry of Reconciliation

Quote:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mor2/

Powerfilled Ministering

Quote:

http://www.powerfilledministering.com/

Jamie & Debb's Place

Quote:

.http://www.hairys.demon.co.uk/

Ray and Donna's web Site and Bible studie's

Quote:

http://members.iquest.net/%7Eszkotak/

More from the forbidden public posts.....

"*Let us Refresh our memory On Dr's Wierwille's

"Literal Translation according to usage". *Jesus Christ not God Pg.91

"In the beginning (before the creation) God was the word, and the revealed word was in God's foreknowledge (witch was later communicated to man in spoken words, written word and incarnate word) This Word absolutely was in the beginning before the foundation of the world together with the one true God in his foreknowledge yet distinctly independent of him." The Way Intl.

I wanted to post so we will not forget to look it up. and give them a chance to defend there case Some of the Way or ex-wayer's do not know Dr. Wierwille went so far to "Literally" add so many words to just 1 verse.

1) Where is the word support for "Foreknowledge" ?

*Did not Wierwille tell us, when the Translators add to the word we no

longer have a Translation but Mens Tradition ?

(Power for Abundant living )

* Wierwille also told us in PFAL

HOW THE WORD INTERPRETS ITSELF

All scripture interprets itself:

!. In the verse

2. In the context

3. used before

1) Where is the word support for "Foreknowledge" In the Verse?

2) Where is the word support for "Foreknowledge" In the context ?

3) According to Wierwille's own Theology

this is a bunch of Mens Traditions,

because there adding to the Word.

and here he is guilty.

So are we going to move up to the accuracy of the Rightly Divided Word ?

God Bless !

===================

Now you got my att. It has to fit Jr. how does that fit with Heb. 1:2

"God created the world For(Dia in Acc.) Christ..." ?????

IT HAS TO FIT LIKE A HAND IN A GLOVE You remember that jr.

That does not fit, What about the Aramaic????? Jr. you will see Dr. had the accuracy, look at Est. Aramaic and at Psh.text

====================

It is nice that you came forward John. Can you tell us something about yourself? If not that is ok.

Let us get into the Word

v-1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.

v-2) Hath in these last days spoked unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, "dia" whom he also made the worlds.

* "Dia" needs to be "accurately divided" here .

Is Dia in Acc. Case ?

according to Wierwille in JCNG 1st Ed. when dealing with Heb.1:2. "dia' is.

If this is correct then the Father made the world on account of His Son. And his Son did not Create the world.

So let us use Wierwills rule of grammar in trying to divide Heb.1:2

"Dia"-=On account of, The aim of purpose "For".

*Let us use Dr. Wierwilles definition of "dia", in another context, and flip the grammar to Acc. when it is in Gen., see if it makes any sense to you

2 COR.1:14,15

And in this confidence I was minded to come unto you before that, you might have a second benefit; And to pass "for" you into Macedonia, and to come out of Macedonia unto you To be Brought on my way toward Judea.

* It is clear this "dia" is not in Accusative here. Because the Context forbids it for one thing (also the accuracy of Greek grammar). So we are "Forced" into saying this"dia" is in Genitive.

So now look at Dr. Wierwills definition for "Dia" In 1st JCNG when he accurately divides "dia" in JN 1:3

"All things were made "dia" him and without him was not anything made that was made."

Wierwille accurately divides here and taught. " dia" is in Gen. Case. "through, by way of, by means of, the cause of action."

because he feels no threat here prying with the English grammar, so that when he gets here,(following Pronouns) he can apply it to the Father. But he ignores the Subject of the Context "O Logos".

So if we use Greek grammar in V3 to try prove the case, and again in Heb.1:2 we use Greek grammar to divided it. We "must" accept Greek all the way baby lock, stock, and barrel. And we clearly see, that in the opening of this thread. "o logos" is a" hutos' in the Greek.

Remember Dr. taught in order to, "accurately divide" 'lambano, dechomai You must look at them only in the "holy spirit field".

Notice how "dia" is used in creation accounts what do we see?

We seen how it is used in Heb 1:2,And in JN 1:3.

Look at it in Col.1:16

For in(en) him were all things created that are in the heaven, and that are in the earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, principalities, or powers: all things were created "dia" him and "eis" him.

* Now notice the Greek words here, (cf.Kjv.)

"dia" is in a creation account again " WHO IS THE CONTEXT". Regardless if this a figure of speech here in Col. or not, the Context around this Prep. "dia " proves the case again, "dia" is in Gen.case in Heb1:2 and leads us back to the accuracy, that "all things were made by means of Christ"

because there is ample evidence, that the accuracy in the Greek teaches,

"all things were made by means of Christ Jesus"

So that still leaves with another Question, What about the Aramaic ?

The next thread we will Look at it

=========================

You have something else in mind ? Or did you see problems with the way it was divided ? if so you will need a good "Greek" Concordance.

But you are still stuck with the fact "you must accept" The Koine Greek "NT". is inspired " by instrument of means " of The "Father", to get the rightly divided " Word of God. "

See I want you to know I believe that " it has to fit ",

and you are Just as concerned as me. about the "accuracy of the Scriptures".

And we both agree "the Word of God is the will God"

Let us look at this, Wierwille taught that the New Test was inspired in Aramaic but he tries to prove his "case" in "Greek" many times. Either it is "Greek" or "Aramaic" ?

Notice how Loy Craig Martindale, And Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille, John D. Hendricks, taught how. "the Churches got their Trinity",

" From Council of Nica 325 Ad." (this ia a Watchtower Teaching).

Many Ex-Way followers go on about how:

There is no manuscript support for "Koine Greek" Until after The Council of Nica in 3:25 AD. and the Catholic Church was merging with the Pagan's, and the translators Deliberately "forged the Word" This is how "I" see it MT 28:19 is a "Forgery" Because of men and there "Foul Mouth", "there evil to the bone" ( Father and Son Saviors by Hendricks ).

Now let us keep this in mind and say:

where is the Text support for the Eastrungelo Aramaic "before the Council of Nica" ? (Eastrungelo Aramaic 4th Cent. Check it out I did)

So "aaaaannnnttt" (as the sound from the game show sounds as you miss).

*But Rick Heeter President of "The Ryburn Christian Clarion" A Cult News letter in Every Montgomery County Library. This Ex-Wayer, claims "they just have not found them yet"

(he is saying in short koine Greek is a "counter fit")

So if you still accept the theory "no Greek Text before Nica".

Research it, see if that statement is true. But I will tell you one thing you will not be able to do it unless you, are hungry, and meek to receive , and able to retain with confidence, " You cannot release with boldness "

This is too easy for a Person as your self:

Are a researcher ? If so how can you be let down by

"Inaccuracy of Men"

Not caring about

The "accuracy" in " God's-Breathed Word "

So now we will look at Dr. Lamsa the "Aramaic Scholar" and we know what DR Wierwille Sad about him now don,t we

Did you Know Dr. Lamsa And Dr. Wierwille had a fall out. You know what about "misuse of Aramaic, "Customs", "Manners", "Phrases". Like in Phil.2, Well any way. Let us Get in to

Dr. Lamsa's Translation of the "Pedangta" Text

John 1:1:1-2

"THE Word was in The beginning, and that very Word was with God, and God was that Word The same was in the beginning with God."

*Notice the order of the words here how Dr. Lamsa uses his superior knowlege in the "Pedangta Airamaic "

(In this area) that he seen "God was that Word". And places the Words "accurately in order". Dr. Lamsa Was honest with this, and put the order of words "correctly" in his Translation of the Pedangta. Let us look at this part so you see what I am looking at here. This Translation Is Way more "accurate" in the "order" of the word's than most.

..."And God was that "Word the same" was in the beginning with God.

(Emph. added)

Look at "Dr. Lamsa's" Lit. from Pedangta Aramaic.

Heb. 1:1-2

'FROM out of old God spoke to our Fathers by the Prophets in all manner in all ways: and in his latter days he has spoken to by his Son.

v-2) Whom he had appointed hear of all things, and by ( the instrument of means) whom he also made the worlds. (Emph. added)

*Notice the use of the word "by" here Again, Dr. Lamsa uses his superior knowledge in the "Pedangta Airamaic "

Now what problems ?

===================

Let's see, what WAS on the thread that they considered too controversial to let exist once we were

aware of it?

(Google cache, I choose you!)

==================

Could not find A thread on "The Way" But would like to say I live around Dayton Ohio and the Ways Splinter Groups is Very large and growing every day. If there is another thread on the Way here please contact me asap.

This Sect is very very DANGEROUS, They appear to be Christians, but in turn they are a Satanic Cult, going against almost every thing The Bible Teaches. Brainwashing people out of the truth. They use Koine Greek, Aramaic texts, Textural critizeism.

If you or someone you know has been effected by The Way, I want to tell you there is people that do believe

"The Word of God is The Will of God"

and can help. There is life outside of Vp Wierwille's teachings.

Contact me we can have Fellowship, I do Care about the accuracy of the Word. I will spent time with you on any topic you feel comfortable with. Maybe you are stuck with some of the old WAY teachings ? Post a question.

I have sat under PFAL, Researched "Jesus Christ is not God 1971:72 Ed ", 'God's Magnafied Word", " Jesus Christ our Passover, " Are the Dead Alive Now", "Also'(Ew Bullanger), Many more.

Let me say Wayers or Ex-Wayers offten say

"They Cannot Defend there Case"

Well let me say that is a lie. You will find more detail outside the Way than in. If you take the time to see what the other side has to say you will cash in your chips if you are Meek to Receive James 1:21. Remember: Receive, Retain, Release? Are you ready to receive ?

There is a very detailed teacher in Koine/Mod. Greek Today And published his book in 1967 "WAS CHRIST GOD" (Dr. Spiros Zodhiates) , Wierwille book "Jesus Christ Is Not God" 1971:72. (Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille)

I have a audio copy of "Was Christ God" this is a tool of correction, you can hear the words pronounced properly and would love to let you hear and see what you think. I am Contacting AMG Intl About the Sharing of this audio on the Web so any one who has been effected by VP. Wierwille you can hear and see what Wierwill hid from you. And you will see Wierwille Did not even Know Greek Whatsoever. It is good to know a little Greek and his name is Spiros Zodhiates.

Maybe you want A one on one discussion, Cool Drop me a e-mail. Or post on this thread.

===================================

Well like to put this on the thread so it can be viewed by others that may have the same question.

"kia Theos een o Logos"

*Notice the order in Greek. not the same as in Eng.

"and God was the Word" Kjv.

*Now look at v2

"Hutos een en archee pros tou Theou

In Kjv

"The same was in beginning with God.

Now together

"and the Word was God the Same was in beginning with God"

*Wierwille showed us to follow the pronouns to the Noun.

"The Same" in Eng. grammar Is applied to "God"

Now this is 100% correct in Eng.

Now let us see what Wierwille hid from us or maybe he did not know?

The Greek word "hutos" is a personal Adjective in 1st person sing. Form.

"and God was the Word "This Person" was in beginning with God"

Lit Trans. ( from the Greek)

This makes "the Word" a person, not an Idea or speech. if Wierwille was right in his clams we would see "Touto" (impersonal Adjective.)- not "Hutos"(personal Adj.)

See this is how we get to the Rightly Divided Word of God, The accuracy of the Scriptures. "Study to show yourself approved unto God"... Yo should know that Verse.

Email me for Questions your identity will be confidential.

================================

*What does The accuracy, the Rightly Divided Word (logos) of God

Teach, that "HE" in V-3 is " Who "

*Was Dr. Wierwille accurate or did he poorly Divide John 1

(see JCNG Book and Dr's Transl. according to usage.)

*Logos is a Big Word now is it not? Now we see the Logos is a person in Jn 1:-v2). We must look at him (Logos) in Context.

A) In the beginning was" thee Word"

B) and "thee Word" was with God

C) and God was "thee Word'

v-2) "He" was in the beginning with God

* Now clearly the subject is "thee Word" in all 3 clauses.

v-3) All things were made by "him": and without "him"

was not anything made that was made.

*Now who is subject in the entire context ?

* Remember Dr. Wierwille Said the Immediate context must flow with

the remote context.

V 4) In "him" was (Had Been) Life:

* in "him" had always been the life see "een"(was) in the Imperfect Tense. (we do not have this in Eng. so it would be hard to Translate this word in Eng.) "een" is an Eternal Verb in this Context.

V5) And "the light" shineth in darkness:

* Now who is THE LIGHT ?

God bless you all

=====================================

This might be way out there but could it be where their intentions were being generated from. The Pharisees from a earthly dark place and Jesus from a heavenly light place? Thus above and beneath.

Easily possible. I don't even see it as "either/or" with what I posted.

Both could be meant- after all, he said it twice...

Another spot, I've been reading and re-reading the verses you cited and the one that keeps standing out for me is verse 23

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

When Jesus said they (the Pharisees) were "from beneath" surely that had to be a figure of speech rather than a literal fact. If this is true -- that saying they were "from beneath" wasn't literally true, then why wouldn't it follow that, when he said "I am from above" would likewise be a figure of speech rather than a literal fact?

I don't think that's such a sure thing.

Look at the contrasts right there in the verse

"you are from beneath" versus "I am from above"

"you are of this world" versus "I am not of this world"

Consider this set of non-figures.

"You are from there" versus "I am from here"

"You are not of this town" versus "I am of this town".

Going back to the original example,

if Jesus is contrasting "this world" (i.e. EARTH) with not of this world (i.e. HEAVEN),

then those from beneath are of this world (i.e. EARTH),

while those from above are not of this world (i.e. HEAVEN.)

They were of Earth and minded earthly things, he was of heaven and minded heavenly things.

Heaven is "above" earth by everyone's measure, whether you mean the atmosphere,

or space, or God's Throneroom.

=========

An entirely separate can of worms is the flexibility of the prepositions in Greek.

We might say "from this", "for this world", "in this world", "of this world."

A born-again Christian may be considered "from" this world, for he was born here,

or "from" God if he was sent to a place by an order from God.

He would be "for this world" in a sense of helping it, but "not for this world" in his preferences

and his destination.

He would be "in this world" for that is where he walks, but not "of this world" for he is

God's and thus "of heaven."

In Greek, however, with the same preposition translated ALL of those things at different times,

it is difficult to draw a conclusion affected by a preposition.

THERE I see PLENTY of room for disagreement.

"The problem is, I feel responsible for her self-nullifying behavior."

""Turn it off, man! Turn it off! It's sucking my will to live!"

"I mean, Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes that everyone liked. They left that to the Bee Gees."

""Guys! Wait up! I fell on my keys!"

"I'd never done a crazy thing in my life before that night.

Why is it that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic,

yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion it's called murder?"

"...marriage is punishment for shoplifting in some countries."

" Well, I'm a regular visitor here, but Milwaukee has certainly had its share of visitors.

The French missionaries and explorers began visiting here in the late 16th century."

"I'm not evil-I'm just good looking."

"Anything wrong, Davy?"

"Yeah, I got paid today."

"Yeah, I know what that's like."

"No. You don't understand. They laid me off. I got one of these."

"Yeah, I know how that feels."

"Know what I'd like to do?"

"Yeah I know what you'd like to do. You'd like to find the guy who did it,

rip his still beating heart out of his chest and hold it in front of his face so he can see how black it is before he dies."

"Actually, I was thinking of filing a grievance with the union."

"Well, the world's a twisted place."

"Did you know that if you stab a man in the dead of winter you can see steam rising out of him?

The Indians though it was his soul escaping from his body."

Still sounds like "Law and Order."

Is it one of the flavours of CSI?

What draws me back here again and again?

I can answer why I return, but not why you return...

Have we really left if our thoughts are tied up with our old group?

In my case, my thoughts are LESS tied up with twi since posting and reading here.

Although I do not disagree categorically with EVERYTHING they taught and teach,

we've examined quite a few things, both in print and on tape and in classes

that twi covered, and shown that they don't reflect sound doctrine.

Sometimes they're major things -like the so-called "law" of believing.

Sometimes they're minor things-like "were Samson and Jesus molested".

Either way, the process of thinking and examining what they taught, each time,

makes me a little freer of the choices of blindly accept their docrtrine because they said so,

or blindly reject their doctrine because they said to accept it.

(Not that I began as wildly embracing every utterance, but every little bit counts.)

========

BTW,

on the internet,

there are interest groups for EVERYTHING,

including ex-members of religious organizations.

Here, we can learn what we didn't know, tell others what we do know,

discuss what we thought we knew or know,

or just socialize.

I like to do all of the above, in turns.

Some of us are still playing forum games in the Reading Room forum,

and I think those who think this place is cheerless really ought to join in a

game for a while.

I don't see anything new there... Dr. Wierwille said decades ago that we were labelled a cult because we didn't believe in the trinity.

Can you imagine that there are some folks who actually think we were a satanic cult? It is mind boggling what some of these people actually believe.

I consider the trinity outrage to be a ridiculous diversion that drew attention from the

REAL talking-points.

Quite a few Christians are quite levelheaded and won't label their fellow Christians as Satanic

for disagreeing with them-even if it's for being on "the wrong side" in discussions on the

Trinity.

All it takes, however, is a few extremists, and they get all the attention.

You are aware that there were at LEAST a few nuts in twi down the years, right?

I've heard amazing accounts here about some fellow corps members from some of

the corps grads. One guy prepared to go assassinate someone because vpw or lcm

said someone should kill him. (The suggestion of a leader, in his mind, was tantamount

to a command, after all, which IS what vpw taught. The leader suggested it, so

it was commanded.)

Another guy, when needing to take a bathroom break during a long lcm teaching,

elected to stay seated on a bench instead, relieving himself in his pants rather than

get up.

Others thought it was ok to beat kids with sticks (wooden spoons) until they were 1/2

unconscious, or until they drew blood, or for 1/2 an hour.

Even if those were all the nuts in twi, there were quite a few of those.

Now, if a normal person sees THEM and thinks they're REPRESENTATIVE of the AVERAGE

twi-er, then it would be small wonder they thought twi'ers were nuts.

On the other hand,

if your impression of other Christians is based on some of the people who claim that

twi was satanic, that Dungeons and Dragons is satanic, that Harry Potter is satanic,

that rock and roll is satanic, etc, etc.

then your impression would naturally be that THEY were nuts.

=========

Me, I agree with those that say vpw LIKED that people like that were outspoken and

existed. It made him look better that he could contrast himself with that,

and he could pretend they were the AVERAGE Christian,

and thus that the choices were between people like THAT and twi,

with twi being the only sane ones.

Or, to borrow a phrase, if nuts like that didn't exist, vpw would have had to invent

them to make himself look better by contrast.

Anyone notice-when it was up-that among the twi offshoots, they listed twi?