WordWolf

wow I SO remember giving our computer to a limb coordinator and having him so thankful for our sharing of our abundance.......

lcm said that was forbidden.

and putting money in the pot for LCM when he would come teach and acts class or something ...

That was EXPECTED for lcm. See the difference?

One is giving something to someone (who is not lcm) that they will use for the furtherance

of God's Word.

The other is cash given directly to lcm-tax-free, untraceable- for whatever he wanted.

The first one was evil and forbidden,

the second one was expected and required.

In Pfal there was that little section on VP leaarning how to SIT, the minister that lead him into tongues put his wife in her place--and VP respected him for that.

But did the wife really do something terrible? Seems to me she wanted to know how long he would be...Really did she deserve to be smacked down?

"the Way, Living in Love". vpw is telling, in his own words, some stories.

==================

pg-199.

"Then a woman came over to me, and said, 'I think God sent a man here to meet your need.

Meet me at 9am.' I thought,

'Women never tell the truth.' "

pg-200.

"At lunchtime Stiles came in with his wife and the pianist. I just remember thinking to myself,

'There aren't going to be any women around when I get the holy spirit.'

I was just watching and waiting. Lunch was kind of light talk- we talked about Oral

Roberts, the Holy Spirit, lots of stuff. When we were done, I picked up the check, and

then Stiles turned to his wife and said, 'Honey, I'm going with VP.' She said something

to him like, 'How long will you be?' And he said,

'That's none of your business.'

That was it, and my opinion of him as a man went up 99 percent.

His stature increased in my eyes. just from the way he handled her."

=======

As I read Greg Hill's description of Chris Geer, I feel my dinner coming back up my throat...His posts are a testamony of GreaseSpot's tolerance of free speech and free thought...if we let THIS guy post what he's posting...then anybody can say just about anything.

In all honesty, Groucho, what he's posting not *THAT* bad.

He's not calling anyone with experiences contrary to his own "liars" or going after

them for disagreeing with him. He's avoiding posting in an abusive manner.

(From what I've seen.) So I've seen worse here, and can name worse posters

in the past who did those things.

I think the free speech here is emphasized when one allows someone with his

limited experiences the right to post about them, without FORCING him

to conform. He can change on his own schedule, or not at all, on his own schedule.

Mr Hill...I honestly feel sorry for you. Chris Geer has been a meanspirited lowlife for his entire adult life...He knows God in the same way that I know Derek Jeter...in other words...he doesn't...he's a fake and a conman, just like his "father in the word" VP.

Wormville

I saw the same things, and it took me a while to examine the experiences of others

and properly contextualize my experiences in light of a WHOLE life,

and not just the window into it I had. That doesn't happen overnight.

...Most of the twi "leaders" were puffed up jerks who enjoyed stroking their own egos...Geer, on the other hand, was a dangerous man...his self righteousness and false humility were astounding...From the things you have said about him, I would highly suggest that you seek professional councilling ASAP...

I'd just suggest he dig deeper.

He saw cg put on the full act of humility and spiritual maturity.

So did I-and I was actively looking for spiritual mistakes at the time.

I didn't see what he wasn't showing me, either.

Then again, I didn't get a "face-melting session" either.

I don't think he's unsound-just limited in his exposure.

Perhaps that will change for him-it certainly did for you and me...

In his defense, he worked the night shift for 8 years. That'll make anyone cranky and zombie-like.

Not the night-shift people I know....

I find myself again in the company of George.... 84%

Me too.

Since we didn't study for this test, I think that's pretty good.

Sorry, but I'm apparently not at the top of my game lately.

I even missed the Bob Dylan one a page back....

Seven days away from The Big Day.

Tonight: The Bachelor and Bachelorette parties.

Tomorrow: We attend another friend's wedding.

Sunday: We celebrate her Grandma's birthday.

Monday: Complete the wedding program.

Tuesday: Panic because the wedding program isn't done yet. Finish it up and get thee to a Kinko's!

Wednesday: Independence Day! Where WILL we celebrate?

Thursday: The rehearsal, and the rehearsal dinner.

Friday: The Wedding, the reception, etc.

Check here for updates, pics, etc, etc, etc.

And no, no pics from the bachelor party!

I take it that means video is out as well?

*ducks*

Hey, big congrats.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/forums.html

"These forums are meant to be a place of discussion, where ideas and debates are encouraged. We welcome your opinion.

In that light, please be courteous to fellow posters. Disagree all you want, but respect the fact that someone else may feel as strongly about their ideas as you do about your own. Please don't make it personal. A lively discussions of ideas is both more polite and more relevant.

Our forums cover many topics from religious to political. While we are not a religious site, we do embrace discussions in this area.

All are welcome here. However, harassing behavior will result in being banned from the forums. There is no need for personal attacks. If you have a specific problem with a poster, settle it outside of the forum. Threads of that nature will be deleted or sent to the Soap Opera Forum."

[Thanks a lot for replying.

There's no consensus among posters-we have Christians, non-Christians,

and the Christians cover a wide spectrum of beliefs now.

Speaking for myself, I prefer posters-whether I agree with them or not-

who can document their claims and discuss them,

and can allow for others disagreeing with them respectfully.

Without cheapshots mixed in.

I don't speak for everyone, but that's more common than some people would portray

about the majority of posters.]

OK, here's one example of what I considered different. WordWolf asked for one example. There are many. But remember WordWolf asked for one.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

In PFAL - we were taught that Paul's thorn in the flesh was - "People".

In WIGP - we were taught that Paul's thorn in the flesh was - "A Messenger of Satan."

You have to draw your own conclusions here. A messenger can be translated as angel. So we have People vs. an Angel of Satan. Chris doesn't come out and say it. But it's quite different. I also know that Dr. KC Fred Price has taught the same thing later, he saw it as well. Satan had assigned one of his angels to buffet Paul. Evidently Paul was causing such havoc - he needed special attention - So Satan assigned specifically to him one of his angels. Quite different.

For centuries people have wrestled with a thorn in the flesh and what it meant. It became quite clear what it meant in WIGP.

[Technically, this is not identically-taught as pfal. The conclusions are different, and the direction to

get there is different (which is why the conclusion is different.)

However,

the claim before you walked in was how the SUBJECTS of WIGP were all taken from pfal-

how WIGP was DERIVATIVE of pfal and owes its existence and its syllabus to pfal.

WD challenged this claim, and said the SUBJECTS were different.

I asked him to give an example so we could evaluate that and come to our own conclusions,

supporting HIS claim.

You said WD was right, so I asked the same of you, and to support YOUR claim.

Which you did. Which I for one appreciate, and I expect others do as well.

(This isn't unusual behaviour-the request and the support- since all over cyberspace,

messageboards have discussions where claims are supported, discussed, or refuted,

all the time.)

Your support does indeed show that the material is not identical-at least this subject is covered

differently. HOWEVER, the claim was that the subjects are different- and this was indeed a subject

covered in pfal, then covered in WIGP, and that as a direct result of it being in pfal.

Therefore, Juedes' claim is CORRECT as stated, at least as reflected by the evidence presented.

(Pending further evidence.)

However, this doesn't mean the WIGP class is completely identical to pfal.

Rather, it joins the family of pfal clones that began as photocopies of pfal, completely plagiarized

for 90% or more of their contents, which were then later modified with "unique" turns of their own,

based on the doctrine or style of the presenter.

I for one now know a little more on WIGP- that it presented the "thorn in the flesh" as a different

thing than vpw said it was. Which, if either, is correct is a matter of Doctrinal discussion, but that they

are different is on-topic for this discussion, and that much is correct- they are different there.]

As far as the other stuff about Chris - I don't even know what years he was the coach driver. Heck, I was probably hangin' with the ORU crowd back then. Still just a teen in school. Heck I may have been still in grade school. I know that people can grow and change over time. And Chris was cool when I was around him.

different occasion, which he didn't do to me. Then again, I only saw him a few weeks, under controlled

circumstances. I acknowledge I hardly had a chance to see him under a variety of conditions,

where he could not control the circumstances. Therefore, I have observations-I was watching him

closely when I could-but they are limited observations.]

Now I thought I could come and just post my thoughts here. I didn't know I would be grilled and cross examined. You guys are tough. Now can I come and post or not? Is this a free forum where people can just post what they think or not?

[This is the internet. Welcome to the internet! If you're new to the internet, I recommend catching up on it.

Here's one Flash that explains a little. http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

As for this messageboard, anyone is welcome to come and just post their thoughts here,

and the only times the staff interferes (they're a VERY permissive staff) is if a post is overtly ABUSIVE,

or releases information about people who have not consented to be public figures,

or is overtly advertising, pornographic, or otherwise inappropriate for messageboards.

So, you can just post your thoughts here. (Please post them to the appropriate forum- Politics go in the

Political forums, and so on.)

This is the internet. Most messageboards (and all the ones I post at), whenever you post,

your posts are subject to being agreed-with, disagreed-with, discussed, dissected, sneered at,

sneezed at, applauded, lauded, jeered, respected, and otherwise replied-to.

Even the board owner is subject to that- and HIS posts have been agreed-to and disagreed-with,

and he doesn't censor those (except as I explained above). A LOT of boards-including all boards

run by current twi members- if you disagree strenuously or even mildly, your posts may or will be edited

or deleted, and you may be banned.

If you think THIS board is tough, there's a lot of boards where you'd be subject to a lot "freer" speech-

where replies may be-and are-ABUSIVE. We are NOT tough as the internet goes- we're fairly mild,

or middling at worst. There's a balance to strike between "allow everything to be posted with no

restrictions" and "make a harmonious environment even if that means deleting most of the posts

and banning most of the users" that all boards must strike, as determined by their staff, and responded

to by the posters. This board, IMHO, strikes a healthy balance.

You have posted already. You are free to continue to post. Likewise, those who disagree with you are

free to continue to post. You were free to disagree with Juedes, me and others, and nobody pushed for

you to be censored or banned. Likewise, we are free to disagree with you, WD or others, without being

censored or banned. The treatment is even-handed. ]

You tell me ok? If it is not a place where I can freely post I will not come back. OK?

Peace.

[You've freely posted before. You freely posted now. You can continue to freely post.

You've contributed to the discussions already, and added to the aggregate knowledge here,

even when there's disagreement.

If "freely post" means "I post and others are not allowed to disagree",

then, no, this is not that kind of board.

You are free to set up your own board and make it against the rules to disagree with you there.

Plenty of people do that.

Don't ask me where they are- even when I'm on board-staff, people can disagree with me all they want

so long as they don't get abusive- and vice versa.

But if that's REALLY what you want, hey, more power to you, go right ahead, it's easy to set one up,

and you can invite whoever you want to it.

Me, I think it would be a shame, and you and we could benefit from you continuing to read and post

here, but my opinion is hardly binding on you or anyone.]

Language

Social

Musical

I don't think this should come as a shock to anyone, really....

Daniel Stern

Very Bad Things

Jeremy Piven

(Even I can link from Piven, so I'm sure someone else can...)

Sometimes I can be too hard on people.

WordWolf - Just look at the headline of JJ article. PFAL Piracy - gets attention, that's it. Dirt sales. No Piracy involved whatsoever. But what an attention getting headline.

That's open to debate.

Feel free to open the debate.

First, in order to show examples, I would need to show comparisons of sectons of PFAL and WIGP side by side - bad news - violation of copyright.

and this would qualify as a review.

So long as you cited the sources of the material, it would be completely legal.

But I congratulate you for having a concern for copyright laws-

that's not a mindset that some people display.

Second, it would require more working of these materials, sorry to me it's not a worthy endeavor. Been there - done that. We're moving forward.

But you made an accusation about someone else, claiming that there's original subjects not found in

pfal, which are found in WIGP. When asked to SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM, you're saying that

proving that you yourself are neither mistaken nor lying, you're claiming

"it's not a worthy endeavour."

Me, I consider the integrity of my word worth more than that.

Of course, you're not me, and I'm not you.

However, we will probably be putting our WIGP foundational class books up for sale on EBAY pretty soon - one has presenter #1 one's personal stamp and signature. Wow - maybe we'll get into the big money then? Cha Ching! Doubt it. Perhaps then we can up sell the Intermediate class books as well. Cha Ching! Doubt it. Anyway if you get them - perhaps you can do the work yourself. How's that for a proposition WordWolf? You do the work dude! Doesn't that make you excited?

If I claimed the world was flat, and when you asked me to support my claim,

I responded with telling YOU to do the work,

would that make YOU excited?

The one making the claim is the one to "do the work" and SUPPORT THEIR CLAIM.

My personal experiences with Chris were in 1994-1997. I didn't know much about him before or after that except via GWTs and the newletters. But when I was there - I saw a wonderful example. I worked as volunteer staff for several months in 1995 and I never once heard him raise his voice. And the teachings and services were incredible. He was personally very, very patient and kind and helpful. Something I will never forget.

Those other things you speak of - well I have only heard them second hand via anonymous posters. I never implied that anyone was lying. Seems to me you are overly suspicious and perhaps too critical. A brilliant analytical mind has one great weakness - being too critical. I heard Chris say once that for some people the more they knew the less loving they become. And I have no motive for lying.

I've gotten used to people saying "Reverend X is a wonderful person and all the people who claim

they had negative personal experiences are all liars!"

That's happened A LOT around here. Thus my question.

"Overly suspicious?" No, just not wasting any time, and asking outright.

If you saw this happen all the time, you'd expect it again, too.

And I never asked if YOU were lying, nor suggested it.

However, you're saying you've only heard them "second-hand via anonymous posters".

So, do you think they're lying, or not? Seems like you didn't say one way or the other.

You may have MEANT to be clear one way or the other, but your response was ambiguous,

intentionally or no.

I have put my real name on what I have written.

Your third question doesn't make sense. There was no "corps" programs training at Gartmore House from 1994-1995. No one to address except those near. He was very hands off. Teach people the Word and let them make their own decisions. Chris' behavior was exemplary during that time.

It is curious, though, that he spoke up about it at one point, but remained silent at another point.

Perhaps he reconsidered over the years.

Finally, I have also been an object of the wrath of Chris. But that would open a whole new can of worms. Suffice it to say that in 1997, my wife were made officially persona non grata. Excommunication. Removed from the list! The treachery, the accusations, the allegations and treatment by others that followed was most cruel. I heard one of my favorite teachers once say that the two cruelest things he knew of were politics and religion.

I have yet to decide which one it was.

Still, that doesn't invalidate what I saw with my own eyes and what I heard with my own ears during those wonderful years at Gartmore House in 1994-1995.

Gregory A. Hill

North Tulsa County

Summer 2007

So,

you've ALSO seen him capable of kindness and temperance,

AND ALSO capable of meanness and pettiness.

Neither experience erases the existence of the other.

Doesn't it argue FOR the similar experiences of those who've seen him berate someone

until they were reduced to tears?

I just wanted to respond to some of the posts here on this topic and perhaps tell a real story.

First, I concur with White Dove that certain statements written by JJ are in fact erroneous. Having sit through PFAL and WIGP numerous times, one will find that there are many differences. Perhaps PFAL and WIGP are similar in structure, but there are many differences. After reading the article that White Dove refers to years ago, I really couldn’t trust much of what JJ has written about anything. That’s what happens if you publish erroneous material. You lose credibility.

Again, I ask for ONE EXAMPLE.

Or, are we supposed to believe you without support that what you're saying is true?

(I asked WD for ONE EXAMPLE as well, and I'm still waiting for one. Maybe he'll have the time

to post one soon...)

Second, I have heard from others that Chris and Barbara live in Maine. I do know his home address and know he’s probably got a great view overlooking Lake Sebago. Good for him and Barbara – they deserve the best.

If Chris is doing what I personally witnessed him doing at Gartmore House in 1994 and 1995, then you can be assured that he’s doing everything he knows to do to love God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength. He’s doing all he can to help others by performing the genuine labor of love that is required. No wasted time or motion. I have never seen another “man” work so hard in my life. I suspect that he was and still may be greatly underappreciated. Now he may not like me saying this because he has made it clear that he wants people to know Christ – not Chris.

Chris, your welcome to kick my butt anytime. I miss you and the way you taught God’s Word.

Furthermore, I have never met a teacher of God’s Word come close to the manner and content of what Chris taught at Gartmore House. It was some of the most profound, healing and delivering stuff I have ever heard or witnessed or experienced. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t burp occasionally though. He is human after all. But what an example. What a thing to have witnessed first hand.

of witnesses. I had a positive experience with him myself, but I consider all information, not just

my own experience.

Do you conclude that all personal accounts of negative experiences with him are all lies?

I'm suspicious you do, but won't know until you say one way or the other...

Finally, Coolchef – I am sorry that you D. A. interfered. DA tried to interfere with my marriage to a staff member at Gartmore before we were married. It occurred while eating lunch in the dining area at Gartmore House in the summer 1995. To me, he was out of line. Just one stupid comment after another and it began to grate on me. (Now there’s a real story behind the story that I have never shared with anyone but that isn’t the point. If DA would have approached the situation differently well then …) And perhaps he’s grown more in that category. I hope so.

But anyway, the conversation deteriorated until DA finally popped the real question to my fiancé and me. “Do you want me to give you marriage counseling?” Now this ticked me off. My fiancé responded with - “Well – we’re not married yet.” Who was DA to offer us counseling? I didn’t know him and my wife didn’t know him that well either. Even though DA said they went “Way Way Back,” it was just plain puffed up arrogant BS.

I think the conversation must have become a little loud because Chris Geer, who was sitting a few tables away, then stood up and asked the question for everyone to hear.

What makes us think we’re qualified to counsel people?

The room went silent.

Chris then went on to explain many things that are involved with counseling. But still the question rang in my ears. What makes us think we are so qualified to counsel others?

So, cg WAS aware that corps considered themselves qualified to counsel people,

and considered that objectionable enough to say something,

but not to try to address it with those running the program, to actually try to

put a stop to it as a policy.

Interesting.

DA didn’t bother us anymore after that and I am sure perhaps he learned something. Now if he had approached the situation differently … I certainly didn’t understand the ramifications though.

I repeated the story without naming DA to a married couple after our return to Oklahoma and was responded to with much treachery later on. I had no idea that that particular couple was being counseled by a certain what I would call, “arrogant incompetent boob” that Ste*e Arm*trong had “ordained“ to be in spiritual charge of the state Oklahoma after he left OK. Another one of them stated that he wanted me to start sending my fellowship’s ABS from Tulsa to him shortly after he was “ordained.” I didn’t appreciate the request! WHY was someone in OKC/Norman asking me for all of our ABS? He wasn’t feeding us. My good food was coming from elsewhere.

I suspect that multiple 15 page grievous letters and numerous grievous telephone calls were made behind the scenes to Chris Geer after my conversation with this certain married couple. DA and SA and certain others turn out to be part of what I would call a network of “Way Way Back” types. I am not politically astute and it didn’t really matter to me how far you go “Way Way Back .”

I have learned much since leaving Gartmore House in 1995 and my wife and I are still happily married. But I don’t allow the incompetent boobs in our home anymore and the treachery has ceased. We don’t visit their "sickening fellowships" anymore either. You could go to one feeling great - and then leave feeling ill. A bunch of junk. Thanks a lot Steve.

So, I am sorry Coolchef for what happened – perhaps DA has become a better at counseling now?

Finally, as far as Chris Geer goes, if I died tonight I have seen with my own eyes healing and deliverance from God via his magnificent example, teachings and service. If I died tonight, I have seen with my own eyes what God can do if people will listen and do what God wants them to do. If I died tonight, I have personally seen a man that walked like the men we read about “in the Bible.”

I could write much more but .....

God’s best to you all.

Gregory A. Hill

North Tulsa County

Summer 2007

In my opinion, twi has a corporate secret: No one on the field will truly "remain standing with twi" throughout their lifetime in the eyes of twi's contempt. Why do I say this? Because, as twi defines "standing" or "committed".....it embodies the concept of faithfully witnessing, abundant sharing, attending fellowships and classes, constantly keeping step with the present truth (cough, cough) and embracing an adulation of youthful bliss. So, unless one dies suddenly and thus, prematurely it's quite certain that twi's bod will scoff at their "commitment" in their elderly years.

The policy of people as DISPOSABLE was begun with vpw, and has continued to this day.

Most of the people don't see THEMSELVES as disposable, which means when the FIND THAT OUT,

it causes conflict.

Further, the "present truth" is a continually-moving-goalpost, and twi drones have to keep moving continually

to keep hitting it, and that means they have to just embrace EVERY thing that comes out of twi

even if it contradicts what came out of twi YESTERDAY. Eventually, most people either notice it and

get tired of it, or get sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Finally, getting older and not being on the bod is frowned-upon by twi, which means that eventually

twi will disapprove of you for the sin of getting older, and for doing ANYTHING OTHER THAN JUST

FOLLOW THEM BLINDLY AND SEND IN ALL THEIR MONEY.

As the years quickly pass by, it seems more and more apparent that twi is grasping at the wind in its attempts to hold onto its followers. Their desire to exploit their followers as merchandise is CONSTANT CONVERSATION on the internet i.e. Greasespot Cafe. And, without a charismatic leader, twi has NO appeal. It's policies and mundane teachings are transparent to the aging followers.

which means the blindingly obvious is still not visible to them even if transparent.

Everyone else, the information is at their fingertips.

For which I will be among the many that will take a bow.

The love of God does NOT abide at the trustee/director level in twi. A competitive and manipulative environment is fostered by twi's leadership and is core to way corps teachings. The marching orders of the day are to keep step with the directors' policies.....of which, they themselves do NOT live.

True, UNChristian, and nonsensical.

Small wonder that those who CAN think eventually "jump ship."

In reading through the Friend Tracker Forum.......ANOTHER region/limb coordinator (and wife) walks away from this gluttenous cult and strikes out on his own in a brave move. Yep, even in this "kinder and gentler ministry" H@yward and N@ncy Ch@ppell (sp?) are disassociating themselves from their "embrace."

Where have I seen this pattern before???........from Region coordinator........to Limb coordinator........to Branch coordinator....... to secular career..........to NO twi involvement!

Yeah, Twi's corporate secret: No one on the field will truly "remain standing with twi" a lifetime. But, in actuality I tend to think that MANY of the corps leadership are busy planning their LIFETIME without twi.

Thank you Paw.......Greasespot continues to awaken those in cultic slumber.

And that's one thing that gives me a warm feeling, even in winter.

(That and chili.)

I'm not a moderator or staff, but I know a few answers here.

wow that Ghost busters thing really jarred some memories.. we were mini corps F11, albeit that was Christmas story and Electric Boogaloo (how I remember the years) in rez,.. but I think I remember something about the screening of exorcist, and the firestorm afterwards... I still shudder at the thought of popcorn in a brown paper bag, can't stomach carob or raisins. 3 x 5 cards, the word retimories (sp? eh i don't believe this is even a real word) ,

It is a "real word" in that language is organic and that word was used, and dictionary

appearances don't determine whether that's so, the recognize existing usage.

If not, we'd never get new words like "fax" or "email" or even "internet."

This word WAS, however, made up in twi as a portmanteau of the words

"retain" and "memorize". So, before twi, this wasn't a real word, and it's only used by

people who picked it up IN twi or FROM twi.

stop signs remind me of SIT, I sat up last night and watched the first 2 1/2 seasons of transformers last night finally realizing I missed out on that.. the "rover" stories hit too close to home.. I too got grounded or rather beat cause I couldn't SIT and my interpretation was the same pre-scripted schtick every time.. and of course I caught the occasional bad one for not witnessing accordingly, but rather going through the motions.. the hedge of protection was my curfew/boundary line in later parts of high school..

I did however have a few fond memories, break dancing in the hallway making due with way approved music, and whatever tapes other kids could smuggle through.. snow days, capture the flag on harry man hill, I did make some great friends who I still remember to this day.. So even though we were ostracized, wore mostly hand me downs or GIVEAWAY clothes to school, missed out on some of the most important pieces of pop culture to a 8 yr old, emotionally abandoned by our parents and basically shunned by the junior corps .. we collectively stuck together and made the best of what we could..

It's extremely difficult to attempt to discount such aspects of your life for the sake of beginning anew when, really that is all you knew.. It would be great if I could get that "child abuse of twi" forum link from someone

BTW Thank you for the welcoming, unfortunately I'm more of a lurker than a poster, if anything a quick reply kinda guy.. but if I see something that perhaps I can contribute to.. I'll definitely add a voice..

<< also I'm not sure if there's protocol for name-tossing here, or if everyone would rather keep up a good sense of anonymity >>

Occasional posters are completely welcome here.

Feel free to post whenever you want.

As for the protocol for name-tossing, the usual policy here is:

the people at the top of twi, on the actual BOARD, are fair game to mention.

Thus, you can type "victor paul wierwille, ermal owens, harry ernst wierwille, loy craig martindale,

rosemary fox rivenbark" and so on through the current and past board members.

If you want to give YOUR OWN name, you can. However, anyplace you post it will be searchable

online for as long as the board exists, and thus it's not recommended you include any information

you don't want the entire internet to have.

(So I don't post my name, address, phone#, birth date, Social Security#, and so on.)

If you want to name someone other than yourself or a member of twi's board, or the tiny handful

who were up at the very top of twi, there's policies for that.

For example, if you want to discuss the Bob who, along with his wife ensured that a lot of vpw's

PERSONAL victims were not going to press charges, you can substitute characters, so that the

names don't show up in internet searches.

Thus, B*b M*yn1han is one way to render it, and we know who he is.

Or B*b Mo****an (which is harder to recognize.)

Or just initials (which is handier when discussing less-famous people like you or me.)

Then again, some people-like my example- have gotten nicknames like "Moneyhands" which

are recognizable AND seem to fit all on their own.

My favorite? Bob Nelson, hands down!

"Football is my life. If I did not play football, I would not be playin' football today......"

That's one of the few comedy routines that have reduced me to considerable hysterics the

first time I saw it- as in "unable to see the screen because I'm laughing so hard."

I can also DO that routine- but not NEARLY as well as Nelson.

George Carlin...

But it sorta freaks me out that he also narrates stories for Thomas the Tank Engine videos that my kids watch...

George Carlin's material in the 70s and 80s ranks among my favourite all-time comedy.

Carlin's material in the early 90s, not so much so, and I feel he's lost what made him

such a hysterically funny comedian since then.

Hands down...Lewis Black.

About the guy suing McDonalds because he didn't know it wasn't health food.

"WHAT?

You didn't know

that FAT

fried in FAT

makes you FAT????"

The Blue Collar Comedy Tour actors in general, I find pretty funny.

Including Ron White, who often doesn't travel with it.

I can't even pick one or two favourites.

However, the late Mitch Hedberg is one of the more cerebrally funny comedians, IMHO.

Krys....I agree, if you change to anything, make it a bigger, more colorful butterfly (cuz we gals seem to grow and get more colorful as we get older)

Now, THAT I can get behind.

Preserve the symbolism, but feel free to alter the specifics.

The most encouraging thing of all is to hear of people who've left TWI largely behind and have established a healthy spiritual and emotional life outside TWI. I hope that's not as rare as it sometimes seems to me, since TWI seems to have left very deep, lasting scars in a lot of people.

Actually, a LOT of posters have announced they got everything they needed from here,

thanked everyone, and said they were getting on with their lives.

I count each one a success story.

Ditto a lot of posters who check in rarely.

Although I've written most of the 100 or so articles on abouttheway.org there are probably over a dozen people who have written articles. While I haven't kept track of details, I'm sure that the testimonies of ex-wayers are heavily read. In that sense the site is a team effort. And even my own articles are due in large part to people who have sent me material, shared their experiences with me, or asked questions. Many people have been helpful in many ways, and I am sort of a "front man" for them.

Gee, a front-man who acknowledges that others do a lot of the work, and doesn't take all the credit

for their work! How refreshing!

I just wish I could find another S.P.E.W. button....

In other news, the W.O.M.B.A.T. grades are in!

Click on the WOMBAT card on the desktop, enter your Student ID Code,

then click on the envelope to open it and get your grade....

Here's the breakdown of the quotes.

"No yelling."

"I DO NOT YELL."

"Then you should have no trouble with that part."

Deanna Troi mediating between Worf and Alexander. Worf wanted Alexander to do his

chores, and Alexander wanted Worf to not yell, which Deanna pointed out-since he said

he DIDN'T, should be an easy agreement to make.

"But mostly, a true friend is a person you can always tell the truth to without worrying about it."

Lwaxana to Alexander.

"Do you ever drop one?"

"No, no, no.

They are my worlds, and I protect them. I am a master of worlds, and they fly only as I wish."

Alexander and the juggler in the holodeck program, of the colony of free spirits.

"I'll bet you've never been to the colony of free spirits."

"What do they do there?"

"Whatever they want. Artists, philosophers, free-thinkers... .. people who don't quite fit other people's rules."

"Hold! What is the lesson for today!?"

"Damned if we know. We're just here for some fun and a mudbath."

"Every moment requires a purpose."

"No, it doesn't."

"Every purpose requires a plan."

"He does this every day; usually while everybody's food gets cold."

"The higher, the fewer!"

"Well, that's a conversation-stopper if I ever heard one."

I thought the philosopher who kept expounding his philosophy was very memorable.

Especially since Alexander kept saying "The higher, the fewer" whenever he wanted

to stop a conversation.

"To all the creatures within us!"

"All the creatures within us?"

"Of course. Every one of us has a thousand different kinds of tiny people inside us. Some of them want to get out and be wild; some want to be sad, or happy, or inventive or even go dancing. That's why we have different urges at different times."

"Are we ready for the entertainment?"

"Ready! Yes! Absolutely!"

"And all those different little people inside us? We must never be afraid to take them with us wherever we go. Who knows when we might need one of them to pop up and rescue us from ourselves."

"The great secret is not the variety of life; but the variety of us!"

Lwaxana explaining to Alexander in the holodeck program.

"So, my little warrior wants to see more in life than just fighting.

Ah, the mind opens, and in creeps wisdom.

Onward, to the laughing!"

Alexander stopped the couple that loved to argue by telling them

"The higher, the fewer!" and confusing them.

"I wanted to say I'm sorry if I got you in trouble."

"That's very sweet, dear. But I really wasn't in any trouble... until I saw this dress. Come sit down."

"Ugly, isn't it?

What's it for?"

"I'm getting married."

"Why?"

Lwaxana was sent this antique wedding dress, since she wasn't going to get married

in a traditional Betazed wedding.

Alexander apologized, and asked the obvious question, which Lwaxana needed a friend

to ask, anyway.

"Protocol master?"

"He is nonetheless welcome."

"Campio, dear, personally I adore every ounce of ostentation I can get, but... a protocol master?"

"I would not do you nor our benevolent hosts the disservice of failing to ensure that priorities are observed."

"Oh, well that's... very thoughtful."

"After all, it would be unpardonable to simply abandon ourselves to the moment, would it not?"

".......Unpardonable."

Lwaxana met the stuffed-shirt Campio, who brought a professional killjoy to prepare for the wedding.

Your turn, George!

Alexander was having trouble with Worf, and Lwaxanna was having misgivings about her wedding. so she took him to a bizarre world (I think it was a holodeck simulation) where they could have fun. Worf was not amused. I'm sure there was also a main plot involving some dire threat to the Enterprise, but I can't remember it.

George

That about covers it.

Worf had trouble with Alexander ducking responsibility, and Lwaxanna Troi was there to get married

to Campio-whom she never met. Lwaxana made things difficult by teaching Alexander to be

carefree to the point of frivolity, and brought Alexander to a holodeck program where people

did whatever. The irony was that Campio was much more rigid than Worf, and Alexander

pretty much taught Lwaxana that she had to keep from choking her sense of self for the sake

of a marriage that was totally wrong for her except on paper.

The episode was called "Cost of Living", and the Enterprise also had a

crisis-of-the-week which involved a meteorite infecting the ship with space parasites

that needed to be lured off the ship.

I was getting ready to use that line.

Can you give me just a LITTLE more information from this episode?

"No yelling."

"I DO NOT YELL."

"Then you should have no trouble with that part."

"But mostly, a true friend is a person you can always tell the truth to without worrying about it."

"Do you ever drop one?"

"No, no, no.

They are my worlds, and I protect them. I am a master of worlds, and they fly only as I wish."

"I'll bet you've never been to the colony of free spirits."

"What do they do there?"

"Whatever they want. Artists, philosophers, free-thinkers... .. people who don't quite fit other people's rules."

"Hold! What is the lesson for today!?"

"Damned if we know. We're just here for some fun and a mudbath."

"Every moment requires a purpose."

"No, it doesn't."

"Every purpose requires a plan."

"He does this every day; usually while everybody's food gets cold."

"The higher, the fewer!"

"Well, that's a conversation-stopper if I ever heard one."

"To all the creatures within us!"

"All the creatures within us?"

"Of course. Every one of us has a thousand different kinds of tiny people inside us. Some of them want to get out and be wild; some want to be sad, or happy, or inventive or even go dancing. That's why we have different urges at different times."

"Are we ready for the entertainment?"

"Ready! Yes! Absolutely!"

"And all those different little people inside us? We must never be afraid to take them with us wherever we go. Who knows when we might need one of them to pop up and rescue us from ourselves."

"The great secret is not the variety of life; but the variety of us!"

"So, my little warrior wants to see more in life than just fighting.

Ah, the mind opens, and in creeps wisdom.

Onward, to the laughing!"

"I wanted to say I'm sorry if I got you in trouble."

"That's very sweet, dear. But I really wasn't in any trouble... until I saw this dress. Come sit down."

"Ugly, isn't it?

What's it for?"

"I'm getting married."

"Why?"

"Protocol master?"

"He is nonetheless welcome."

"Campio, dear, personally I adore every ounce of ostentation I can get, but... a protocol master?"

"I would not do you nor our benevolent hosts the disservice of failing to ensure that priorities are observed."

"Oh, well that's... very thoughtful."

"After all, it would be unpardonable to simply abandon ourselves to the moment, would it not?"

".......Unpardonable."

A) Please give one example (feel free to give more than one) of a topic in WIGP that-in your

estimation-does not come from pfal.

Never having taken it, I have no way to know if any exist,

nor if things I don't consider a "topic" are being considered as such.

I don't consider off-hand comments made in passing between subjects that are the focus

of a class to be "topics",

and I don't know if that's what you're referring to.

So please give an example and then we'll all know.

B) Juedes' site's materials were not written last week, nor are they updated daily

with a continuous newsfeed.

The articles were written with the perspective of the time they were written,

and reflect that-

or reflect the perspective of their most recent update, whenever that was.

If the answers at ONE TIME are accurately recorded, and events change,

the non-changing of an article is not proof of an agenda, it's proof the

article needs updating.

That becomes more the case when it's based on a subject that keeps a low profile.

One need not presuppose a conspiracy where scarcity of news is present.

You don't presuppose a conspiracy and agenda about cg lacking an online presence

of any kind, do you? Please be even-handed and fair when making accusations.

If you find something that needs correcting, you can just say

"I think this needs correcting."

As it is, I think that sentence DOES need correcting, and the words "to his followers"

is better left off no matter how the sentence will read with an adjustment.

I'm making a wild guess here, but I suspect Juedes appreciates being able to correct

his articles to make them more accurate, and thus appreciates the notice.

(Whether or not he appreciates the lecture tacked-on to it.)

"No yelling."

"I DO NOT YELL."

"Then you should have no trouble with that part."

"But mostly, a true friend is a person you can always tell the truth to without worrying about it."

"Do you ever drop one?"

"No, no, no.

They are my worlds, and I protect them. I am a master of worlds, and they fly only as I wish."

"I'll bet you've never been to the colony of free spirits."

"What do they do there?"

"Whatever they want. Artists, philosophers, free-thinkers... .. people who don't quite fit other people's rules."

"Every moment requires a purpose."

"No, it doesn't."

"Every purpose requires a plan."

"He does this every day; usually while everybody's food gets cold."

"The higher, the fewer!"

"Well, that's a conversation-stopper if I ever heard one."

"To all the creatures within us!"

"All the creatures within us?"

"Of course. Every one of us has a thousand different kinds of tiny people inside us. Some of them want to get out and be wild; some want to be sad, or happy, or inventive or even go dancing. That's why we have different urges at different times."

"Are we ready for the entertainment?"

"Ready! Yes! Absolutely!"

"And all those different little people inside us? We must never be afraid to take them with us wherever we go. Who knows when we might need one of them to pop up and rescue us from ourselves."

"The great secret is not the variety of life; but the variety of us!"

"I wanted to say I'm sorry if I got you in trouble."

"That's very sweet, dear. But I really wasn't in any trouble... until I saw this dress. Come sit down."

"Ugly, isn't it?

What's it for?"

"I'm getting married."

"Why?"