HCW

Thanks Belle. Hey aren't the fruits of your labor, like, YOUR fruit?

None taken. Actually, I think you're right. I did give song way too much credit... gave Song some benefit of the doubt, undersevedly so. I hope you guys understand, I never experienced much of this "inquisition stuff" during my time in TWI. Plus I'd forgotten or dismissed most of what I did experience, which was mostly just my last year in residence. Not to take anything away from anyone else, I wouldn't have taken it nor put up with anyone doing it to anyone else. This is not to say it wasn't happening then, I'm just saying I wasn't around much of it. Most likely because for the last 10 years I was in, I was a HQ staffer, then WC, then a WC Grad staffer with an eentsy bitsy bit of clout. Since I didn't do any "inquisiting" I didn't see much of it. Whenever I did see something like it I usually nipped it in the bud. Back in the day I saw this stuff more like "normal" ugly office politics than witchhunting. It got progressively worse after VPW died. Using j-wannabe's outline, I'd handle it like this.... "How long have you been a witch?" "What? Who are YOU to call ME a witch?" "I'm the one who saw you swimming like witches do. You witch you, you must be a witch cause I saw you swimming." "Ok. Let's you and ME go ask Bob Winegarner if HE thinks I'm a witch." SNIP! (The oriental sound of a bud being nipped.) Silence... from them. "Oh. Who did you say you were? ... I'm guessing you don't know who I am either, I'M the guy who does all the graphics work for VPW (or the last cover for TW-Magazine or "Heart" or whatever other high visibility project I had going on.). VP doesn't think I'm a witch either." SMACK! "Hey, get yer lips off my butt! You don't know me that well." Whenever that happened I just thought of the person as some gung-ho idiot. Not that I'm a name dropper, its just that I knew that was how "the inquisitors" thought. The political lay of the land was that certain names out-trumped others and I was connected via my job to the biggest names. Our dept. Way Tree went; dept, section, to Rosalie R., Bob Winegarner, Don W. then VP. I could leap-frog all the others because I did exclusive project work for VP that came from him to his secretary directly to me. Sounds sad, but I think it sheds a little light on "the great purge" just prior to "the letter" from LCM. I take great pride in saying how I was the first person fired from HQ staff at the beginning of what we now know became the great purge, which led to the inquisitions. As long as VP was alive, after I graduated from the WC, I was pretty much "inquisition-proof." They had tried to throw me out of the WC about a month before graduation, I went to Donnie W.; he gave JAL a direct order to allow me to stay. VPW, himself, paid the last piece of my Corps tuition when I would have been bounced out for lack of funds. Lots of people on staff used the "my big name is bigger than your big name" thing as "body armour" against the corporate types. LCM had to get rid of anyone and everyone who would have stood against him. With all of us gone, the inquisitons grew to become SOP (standard operating procedure) all throughout the ministry. I guess all that goes to say that I'm not as sensitive to the inquisition stuff as some others are. I see it now though. Reprehensible, what Song did was horrible. No offense Song, but just what were you tryin' to prove? How is anyone ELSE's marriage you business in ANY way? What IS a conventional marriage anyway? Is that like being a "normal" human being?

Thanks for the great observations folks. I can especially relate to the one about having our normal socialization process taken off track. I literally think about this almost daily, especially in my work when i'm interfacing with clients. In fact I make it a point to take second chair to my partner when it comes to negative aspects of customer relations. Even though he is more than ten years younger than me, I don't assume that I'm his "social senior." Part of it is because I have an East Coast mentality and we work in the mid-west where he's from, but I do factor in what I'll call the TWI deficit. Recognizing that "waybrain" tends to surface quickly in mentally volatile situations I really defer to him and "let him handle it" more than I would. A somewhat funny incident on the same topic: As a WOW Family coordinator on my interim WC year, we had an old High School friend (non TWI) of one of my WOWs look him up and come to visit him/us. Since she was from out of state she crashed at our apartment. From her POV I was her friend's roommate, no problem. Her first night in town I wound up riding with her in her car to show her how to get to the apartment. She went to put in a music casette tape, "You like the Police? She asked. What an odd question, I was thinking this strange, stranger from Colorado was asking. Nice person, she must be striking up conversation. I was nice too, so I said, kinda quizzically, "Some times." Not wanting to be too negative I then said, "They can be cool sometimes. Sometimes I really like them, other times, I'm not really into their stuff." "Cool, how about now?" she said. I'm thinking, NOW?? Police?? I don't see any Police.... Then answered, "Well, I guess they might be cool right now...." She said "Cool." Popped the tape in and said, "You're pretty funny, Dave said you were cool." Now I'm thinking this chick is pretty wierd, but she seems to be nice enough. We rode along in silence for a minute or two cause I really didn't know what to say to this strange chick. Then I said, "Cool music, who is this?" "Oh. That's 'The Police.' Its their new album, if you don't like it I'll put in something else!" I felt like such an IDIOT! The Police were only one of THE hot bands of the day. I was so immersed in Way World for the past 2 1/2 years that I had NO idea who they were! How in the WORLD was I ever gonna witness to anybody when I knew nothing about what was up with LIFE on the planet? I sat there kinda stewing, she was sensitive enough to pick up on it & thought I didn't like the music. I really did. I vowed at that moment NEVER to let myself fall that far out of touch again. The moral of the story is yes, I missed a whole part of the 80's while toiling in Way World. I've had to do "double time" work to get caught up socially. Unfortunately that phenomena is not unique to TWI, but it certainly exists there, BIG time.

Yeah. And they say The Way is not dangerous.

I vaguely remember my daughter talking to me about something like that. Part of the end result of it was that NK folks are more sure than ever that TWI folks are crazy. About a year ago, or less, one of the honor student groups at NK school went to some meeting where the speaker was a Holocaust Survivor. Jasmine told me that the way kids derided this frail old lady with ugly "questions" concerning their negative holocaust beliefs so badly that the lady cried. Jasmine told me she had to SCREAM at the way kids who were doing this before they would stop. She started out tactfully saying things to back them off then it escalated to the point where Jasmine pulled rank as their class president and ORDERED them to STOP IT! Jaz was incensed, the lady never finished the presentation. Jaz reported to the school administration what happened. She also gave the speaker an official apology on behalf of the school for the ugly conduct of the students. Yes. Anti-holocaust thinking is a slippery slope to the SAME hatred the NAZI's owned. Idiots.

What gives Holocaust denial such an appeal? Nothing, absolutely nothing. There is no real appeal. Denying the existence of, or reducing the significance of the Holocaust is like saying the 400 years of slavery in North America was an African Study Abroad Work Program. About 18 months ago I stood inside the Elmina Slave Castle in the city of Elmina in Ghana, West Africa. It is the largest of the slave castles on the coast of W. Africa. Over 80% of all of the African captives bound for the Americas left from the shores of Ghana... "and about 70% of them left from here, Elmina Castle..." As our tour guide spoke I drifted off into an indescribable rollercoaster of thoughts, emotions and an almost trancelike state. It was as if the guide's words transported me back into time and I could "see and hear" the events he spoke of happening all around me. When you stand "there" yourself, where it happened and you care, God takes you there - - then. You "experience" it vicariously via the ones who speak to you of it. I "see" shadows on the walls, hear the murmuring of the croud, the angry shouts, the screams of children in different languages calling, "Mommy, Daddy!" when they inevitable got separated in the mass of humanity the guards herded forward through gates and narrow doorways. Looking down I could imagine and "feel" the pain of the scrapes I'd get for falling or scuffing my knees & elbows on the rough brick walls and floors. I could "smell" the blood mixed with the body odor, the stench of urine and excrement along with the sweet, salty ocean air; "feel" the heat of the sun. This place is unimaginably beautiful! Paradise. The contrast of the life giving, awesomely soothing, healing beauty of paradise butted against the hellacious, sheer horror of chained captivity. Combined with the inevitable deaths, injury, murder, rape and humilation of being de-humanized to the point where I was less the most expendable or property.... The walls of my sanity were being breeched. I'm sure Zshot and Sunesis would agree of the overwhelming nature of the experience. Indescribable. "You just had to be there..." is such an understatement. Physically "connecting" with (seeing the tatoo, standing in the spot, etc.) it helps so much to connect with the event, making it an undeniable reality to you. Feeling the heat of the sun, hearing the waves crash on the shore, smelling the salty air, feeling the breeze taking in the awesome beauty outside the walls and contrasting it with the sheer horror of what was happening inside helped me to "pseudo gnosko" the fact that the people who survived that were HEROES. The nature of the experience was that it was UN-survivable . Same goes for Holocaust survivors, the survivors had to be among the strongest, (mentally & physically), healthiest, most fortunate and most blessed of all. They deserve nothing less than our best. Our highest praise and adulation is the LEAST we can do for them. The INTENT of their experience was that NONE of them would survive. I, for the first time in my then 45 years of life, understood the true significance of their survival. They literally "walked through the valley of the shadow of death." The Holocaust survivors don't speak much of their experiences partly because the grace involved with their survival is so incredible they have no words to describe it. There are none. To have the least desire to discredit them in any way shape or form is to own the highest degree of human arrogance and overblown ego available to mankind. The only appeal is to feed one's own arrogance and cultivate one's own ego. Period.

My forehead has a permanent bruise on it from smacking myself with conclusions on what I call "the other side of waybrain." What Belle expressed that could sound like suspicion ("...especially not from a church..." is actually WISDOM. Imo. JL. If I'm there would you say "Duck!" first, Please?

((((((((((((((Lianne!)))))))))))))))) How long has it been since I hugged you? Thanks dear. ;)-->

I was writing my previous post when your post came up Belle, but I think that's a good idea, especially in terms of taking your power back. Back in the day, lots of critics of TWI refused to call him Dr., etc. I remember well-meaning anti-cult types alledging that Vp used titles as a means to elevate himself. I heard one guy speaking saying, "I don't care if he's a Dr. or not, I'M not gonna call him that because it places him in anelevated position I don't think he deserves." Personally, the titles didn't obther me one way or another. I was raised in Western PA where football is King of Sports and we feel we are the best in the country. They breed champions there and teach us all from peewe league up to the NFL to the Super Bowl... Coaches in locker rooms told us, especially when we were playing agains defending champions, or monster who destroyed the rest of the conference, or the whole league for that matter: "Don't be afraid of them, they put on their pants the same as you do one leg at a time. You go out there and deliver the first blow, knock them on their BUTTs." That speech is a figure of speech to express how title means nothing, its what you do on the field that defines you. I'd agree, titles were (or should I saw ARE) a BIG part of waybrain. eg: "I'm Corps, listen to me." is actually a sign of weakness on the part of the one demanding the attention.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program... I understand your thinking Belle. I went through something similar. However. Although I appreciate the respect, there is absolutely nothing disrespectful to me in the decisions you make for your life. Nor is it disrespectful for you to state an opinion to me that may be different, even contradictory to mine. You are absolutely free to express your opinions, make your own decisions in any manner you please. Some things AER disrespectful in their very nature. Some things aren't. If I see disrespect in the thinks a person says that are not "naturally" disrespectful, the problem rests with me. I have never seen you present yourself in anything but the most respectfull manner Belle. And. In this context, according to what you did actually say, any disrespect I may have read INTO the fact that you've chosen to take a break from classes, especially those offered in churches, would be an indicator of waybrain in me. I do understand where you're coming from though. I actually took a break even from reading my BIBLE when I left TWI. I found that when I "read" it I wasn't actually reading it I was projecting, reflecting, and regurgitating TWI teachings INTO what I THOUGHT I was reading. I didn't like that. It disturbed me how much waybrain stuff had crept up on me and leeched itself into my brain. Whereas I had thought I DIDN'T use the lingo, etc. I found the reality was that "maybe I didn't use it as much as some did." I hated the TWI stuff that was lurking in the corners of my brain. I decided that if God WAS real, if His Word IS living and energetic, then at least SOME of it should be living in me after all those years of study and "dedicated service with pureness of heart and singleness of mind...." I figured to put it to the test and see just how much of God lived in me, just how Godly a person I really was. So I put my Bible away, not splinter groups, no fellowships, no church, just living, doing what I felt I wanted to do. Defining my life my way, you know, like Sanatra said. I started out by looking at myself, like, "Hey, what do YOU like? How would YOU say tthis or that? WHat would YOU do? How would YOU handle this or that situation? How you YOU feel HC? About EVERY thing. Like is your favorite color blue because you like blue, or is it because "blue represents God" and you want to be so fricken "Godly." - Why don't you cuss? Is is because "its not Christian? Or is it because YOU don't like to use certain words? OR What? It was a process, I don't actually remember how long it took to go through my entire mental inventory - - years. I'm not sure if I'm even finished now. Or maybe some of the things I like, or don't like have changed. It was very revealing, a very rewarding quest of self discovery. I highly recommend it for everyone X of TWI. Even current innies, maybe ESPECIALLY current innies. Like, if you feel like you'd really like how you look cruisin' down the road in a new Pontiac roadster AND you heve the mony to buy it AND the job to support the 60 month financing - - and you DON'T buy it... OR you can afford a huge house and you live in a small apartment... and you feel "they're no better than me" every time you drive though "one of those" neighborhoods.... Why DON'Y we buy the car? Why DON'T we buy the house? Oh, I know. Its cause we're not really INTO material things. GOD is. When you spec out curtains for a hallway to be sewn with thread made of GOLD, that's pretty materialistic. Hasn't he prepared for us a new city whose streets are made of GOLD? Not asphalt - - GOLD. So. I guess He'd get on your case if you decided to buy a cool, two seater car with money He blessed you with, that you earned by utilizing health He blessed you with, to "labor with your hands the thing which is good" (like He told you to). Not to mention the job he blessed you with, or the design idea He gave to the designer, or the people He blessed with all of the above who built the damn car, roads, etc. so you could drive it and feel the wind He made blow through you hair that He knows how many fell out as you fly through the breeze feeling like a bird He created, looking up at clouds He put in the sky that declare His glory. Sounds really evil to me. I really like some shades of green. The day I realized that I DIDN'T FEEL cool driving an 86 fake wood-paneled station wagon that my car insurance provided when somebody ran a red light and totaled my cool, sporty car set me free. I'm NOT really INTO material things, but they DO have a place in this world and perform a helpful, Godly, function in my life. Sometimes a bowl of ice cream does more for my spiritual well being than a "time of prayer and fasting" EVER could. Each has value but there IS a time for EVERY thing. Freedom from waybrain imo is evidenced by being able to choose, NON-twi thoughts and only using TWI references when appropriate, which really isn't often, especially beyound GSC - at least in my life now. Just live baby. Honestly.

No further argument about God's ability to heal. Of course he can. That point was just worth mentioning, I feel on the topic of controlling Waybrain and what things a person might do. I would also add that one of the greatest failings of TWI is in how they have ALWAYS (no, it wasn't better in the 'good ol' days) always turned a blind eye to the legitimate need people have for theraputic support. "Just go pray about it" is as way-brained as any other way-brained thing. Psycholigists are not "evil" and psychiatrists are NOT of the devil, or possessed. You won't get possessed by sitting down discussing things with a qualified professional. Recognizing you need help to deal with way-brain is smart. I've spent time with therapists, mentors, pastors, good friends & family over the past 17 years; all helping me to deal with way brain. That's part of what I said earlier in spend time with people who you know DON'T suffer from Way-brain. I've been "thumped" into sane thinking over a beer with the fellas just by the "normalcy" of how they thought about some of the simplest stuff. Like, don't jump to conclusions, you jerk. Simple stuff like that.

BRAVO! catcup, bra-VO! Thanks, but I can't be embarrassed by find out something I didn't know. If you're directing that at me that is. At any rate I think it GREAT that you & your husband have the arrangement you do. Frankly it is noone's place to even comment on your relationship. Just shows me more of how mean Song was trying to be. In keeping with my theme for todays posts I might say about: ... that they may be under a PEA-brained assumption.... Geez. That stuff hacks me off. A woman in my small group from church told us last week how a minister told her at work. She works in a Christian Book store, they were having a little problem, he said, "I'm gonna treat you as good as I treat my wife and tell you, I DONT HAVE TO TELL YOU EVERYTHING...." *******. Congrats on your 27 years!

On this one I beg to differ - - a little. It may well be true there is no cure in the medical arts & sciences. I can't argue that point. I do feel however there is a spiritual "cure." David, when he finally came to grips with where his heart had to be concerning his actinons in having his best friend killed so he could have his hot wife, prayed this: "...take away this stony heart and replace it with an heart of flesh...." He recognized that his heart was hardened, hurt injured beyond repair and asked that God take it and replace it. I've "been there" a couple of times in my life. Post TWI, and I just couldn't see my heart healing, etc. Not to go into the details, alone at the "end of my rope" I found the scripture passage almost by accident because I wasn;t looking for it. Didn't really know it was there. I prayed the same, got that "warm feeling" inside and it seemed to be a turning point in my life. How do you control Waybrain? I'd suggest a good "heart healing thing." I know there is a national ministry called "Cleansing Streams" or something like that. They have a wonderful class that's held all over the country, usually in churches. My church does our own version of it regularly. It delves deep into LIFE issues and helps root our all kinds of junk and it DOES help people get healed from, "you name it." Waybrain is part of "you name it."

Three for three! I trust you understand I'm only pickin' out things you said for their conversational value to the thread. I'm in no way saying you didn't handle him well. There are, however some folks out there who would be helped to understand that there IS a TWI knee-jerk reaction to any series of questions, or even one uncomfortable question where they cry out, "INQUISITION!" Its a conditioned reflex for some. Well deserved. So much so, we've developed defense mechanisms to protect ourselves from the TRUE waybrain, which is the process of the emotional rape. My central point on the fondation of Waybrain is how "we" accept their ludicrous and rediculous and wholly innane, assinine, far-fetched (anybody got any more words alone this line? help a brutha out, whyDON-cha!) assertions of what reality is. There IS a very high profile church in Tipp City. So high profile that thousands of people see it from the highway EVERY day. Its not CFF. I had them send me their packet of info. When I looked at it, I heard Twighlight Zone, zone... z o n e.... music playing in my head. Talk about yer Waybrain.... WHY didn't they take the AWESOME opportunity to utilize their FAITH in GOD to come up with something actually NEW in terms of ministry? Don't they know the the ministry model they came from FAILED, miserably? There is ONE key to the success of the first century church that EVERY ministry in the world glazes right over. I believe that if a ministry truly wants the hand and blessing of God totally they would do it. Nobody is.

Again true. The manipulator already knows that. After all, THEY are the inquisitor, right? Sometimes all the inquisitor is shooting for is your response. They feel they "hook" you and have you hooked just by the fact that you respond and acknowledge what they know THEY're doing. I didn't put the 2 + 2 together that "Geek" was your X. It is even more clear to me now that Song was being REALLY mean to you. It may not be in your manner to "flame" somebody, and I'm not suggesting you should have... BUT Had he come at me like that concerning an X of "mine." I may have flamed him to a crisp. He actually came at me in a similar fashion the other day on the "VPW's Spirituality" thread. Not nearly so MEAN though (Song!) I also said, as you did, "No, I DON'T know what you mean.' he didn't tell me what he meant either. I mean, I might have said something like; SONG. GET OFF CATCUP'S CASE! ...something like that maybe... I mean, like , you have a right to explore this subject like anyone else. That no reason for ANYBODY to take pot-shots at you. I'm just conversatin' with you about this stuff. Not tryin' to "confront" (uh-oh, "waybrain" strikes again) you or anybody else. Good thread catcup baby!

Thanks Oaksie; Besides. There is NO SUCH THING as a high profile TWI splinter group. I'm saying, don't let TWI define ANYthing. Any definition they use will be too grandiose, too "everything" beyond reality. This reminds me of a concept I adopted when dealing with the divorce from my first "wife." I always tell people, "I wouldn't believe her if she told me my name was HC!" I give her NO credence, no quarter, no NOTHING beyond her specific spot in the universe. In other words if she happens to be right about something, cool. I'm just not giving her any place in my life. Give no place to Waybrain.

True. However, I was speaking of the response. He continued to push buttons purposefully. What sounded like, "it might be waybrain" was the "sounds like an inquisition" remark. IMO a TOTALLY "waybrain free" response would be NO response. The reality was Yes. You did answer is question, quite succinctly I might add. Your response to me goes right along with my position on Waybrain. In a way, in a manner of speaking, "waybrain" doesn't exist. When waybrain DOES come up, don't pay it the tribute if pronouncing it to be "There goes that ol' waybrain again..." No. I'm being annoyed by someone acting like a jerk towards me. Then IF you choose to re-act.... DON'T react in a manner consistent with how wafers would act. React how "normal" people would act. It would be very normal to say, "Leave me alone, I already answered you, you jerk! You're just yankin' my chain." The KEY is to react however YOU, catcup, would react. Not like a "Christian," or like a "lady," or like "anything" but you. If there's a reality to waybrain its rests in what psychologist talk about as being negative aspects of people feeling obligated to fulfil "roles" in society. I.e: an off duty police officer feeling he must act like a hero in every situation, at times ignores a more appropriate course of action that HE might take in a situation. When he thinks of what HE, the PERSON would do, he rejects his true self in favor of the role he lives as "police officer." That's "waybrain" too but we just don't call it that. What you spoke of in your initial example, IMO is the result of emotional injury - - a sort of PTSS. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. I have grown to believe that TWI systematically rapes the brains of its followers as much as they can. That results in all types of injuries. That being said, your initial example to start this thread "has nothing to do with waybrain" either. I think it has more to do with how much you were hurt by the fact that those bastards went to such lengths to become so great at speaking and presenting - - just so they could USE people. I believe it incenses you that they wanted you to join their ranks and use & hurt others with those "techniques." I think that we all were hurt to varying degrees by our time in TWI and we all heal at different rates. I believe "controlling waybrain" is more a matter of rahabilitation of an injury than mental discipline. I SO totally aggree with what diazbro said. I avoided spending time with good friends from TWI for just the reason he stated. The catch phrases, terminology, etc. DO trigger people. The accepting the good ol' days can blind folks to the reality that there was NEVER a time in the history of TWI that threre weren't disputes and power struggles going on. Ever hear of Peter Wade? Dealing with waybrain, again IMO must be handled like rehabbing a physical injury. I'm in the 7th month of rehabbing a pretty severe knee injury. For a time I couldn't walk without crutches. I had to stay away from activities utilizing that knee. I had to make some very specific changes in my life to avoid reinjuring it, more changes to specifically attempt to strengthen it. Now I'm constantly aware that it is weaker and have to adjust my entire life accordingly. Its healing and is much better than it was but it is not what it once was. I must proactively work on it. Waybrain is similar.

I too am glad catcup posts here. This is one of the most important topics an x-Wafer faces, would we all agree? I'm thinking that if there was no Waybrain to control there would be no reason for a person to leave TWI, except for, "I just don't like what they do." We do agree that "the only good wafer is an X-wafer" so to speak. Basically every one has every good reason to leave TWI because we feel TWI is damaging. Waybrain is the centerpiece of the damage they do to individuals. That being said. I feel that a big part of controlling waybrain is ignoring it. What??? Better communicated, perhaps, what I'm saying is give it NO place in your brain. Redefine it. The biggest part of waybrain is how twi redefines "all of life." I.E.: - WC gards are not Graduates of a Bible college - - They're CORPS. As a WC, somehow TWI retains the right to throw you out of "the WC household" and declare you as DFAC, "Dropped From Active Corps. Huh? My Diploma from The Ivy School of Professional Art which hangs on my wall above my computer & desk in my office at home states the following: It has the typed date and the handwritten signiture of the president of the school. That format makes it a LEGAL document, confirming its declaration. Co-inky-denteally.... My diploma from the Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus (I designed the diplomas, your diploma, if you have one, BTW) says: The principles are listed and it includes the paragraph, "Given under the seal of The Way Colle of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus, this certificate of graduation carries with it all the honors, privileges and responsibilities thereunto appertaining." Quite similar, huh? In fact pretty much any and every college in the country does the same thing as there are standards that accredidation boards require adherance to. AFTER you get the certification, you have it for life. The Way Corps Program is no different than the program of art I studied in art school. It is a course of education once you go through it it becomes a part of you. Knowledge changes you, hopefully for the better. The biggest part of Waybrain is "willing suspension of disbelief." The same principle that allows us to actually FEEL fear when George Remero dresses up a bunch of actor in makeup & yells, "OK Roll camera!" The biggest part of waybrain is accepting their designations. Hmmm. Since I refused to KISS LCM's foot and bow down to worship him... (oh YES you DID bow down to worship him if you stayed IN the the coprs when he sent you "the letter")... I guess HE has the POWER to declare that I somehow DIDN'T do "the successful completion of The Way Corps training..." ??? Just what in the world IS active - - anyways? Was I no long alive, moving, ACTIVE? Was I no longer performing "the function" of a WC grad? Just what in the world IS that function? Is the Harvard graduate who works selling cars, eligible to be DFA H????? Is the Psychology major who graduated from Duke University who decided to buy a McDonalds franchise and is now making mid six figures DFA-SHINK? WHo in the hell gave THEM the right to define what the function of a graduate of their college is? What the funct? I'm using the way corps as an example because its pretty easy and one of the most BLATANT examples of TWI's overbearing and overreaching ARROGANCE - stepping into areas they have now moral or even LEGAL standing to to. Let's see. We hereby declare and DEMAND that YOU FORGETEVERYTHING YOU WERE TAUGHT OR EXPOSED TO BECAUSE WE DON'T like YOU ANYMORE. Better yet, because YOU don't like US anymore. IMO. a BIG part of controlling Waybrain is to STOP accepting their designations. ALL of them. Take the time to reclaim youe life. Spend time with people who speak & act "normally." Spend time with people who know NOTHING of TWI & DON'T "witness" to them. Have confidence that GOD is in control. Believe that HE does, in fact, take take of YOU the way he takes care of birds who have no job, yet He provides them with food, shelter, etc. Bottom line principle about time in TWI: Proove ALL things hold fast to the GOOD. The non Waybrain reality that I saw in you example Catcup is that YOU are a potential world class speaker just like the excellent speaker you spoke of who was speaking to you. Farbeit from you or any of the rest od us to miss out on future messages from other excellent speakers because we detest the motives of some of our teachers and contemporaries and colleagues.

... sounds like waybrain to me. With all due love & respect catcup. I do understand where you're coming from. I'm also coming to understand (I think ;)-->) our friend TheSongRemains... Part of Song's tendency is to ask pointed, probing questions. The response, even the lack therof to Song questions is always very revealing, insomuch as he tends to pull things out of people. In this thread about "Controlling Waybrain" Song pulled some waybrain out. A more traditional way to discuss it is that Song "pushes your buttons." He pushed some of your buttons catcup.

To be clear. I meant to say the volumes it speaks are not good.

Amen Groucho. Is it just me or are all of the volumes it speaks not good? When I got a job in a Fortune 100 company and got to work around REAL corporate executive types... I WISH LCM would be given the reins of a $20 mil business unit or a real corporation revenue size of TWI when he took over. In his own words, he'd be a greasespot by midnite before the end of the first week. I mean really, a REAL CEO has C.E.O. written all over him. They have REAL, tangible track record before even being considered for the job. Craig had never held a real JOB. Maybe VP thought Donnie would run the company and Craig would teach?

I think not Song. BTW, I prefer HC to HCW. We're among friends here, right? I'm not ignoring you, just left the computer to take my boys to our martial arts class. I'm really not sure if I follow your drift Song. Maybe its because I never really went for that "Father in the Word" stuff. I always thought it was more than a little bit pretentious & presumptuous for LCM to refer to VP as his Father in the word themn pass that designation on to all of us. Maybe its because I'm more than a little numb to marketing messages cause I craft them "everyday" in my work. Maybe its because I've always carried more than a little resentment about Craig's presumptuousness. Like what is it about playing tight end in college that means you should ALWAYS play steady QUARTERBACK in the local pickup game with the guys. After all when the Apostle Paul was spoken of as "fathering" the believers in the first Century in the gospel of Christ. He actually WAS the leader of the group one of the FIRST to bring the word to the people that GOD, himself ordained as HIS word. I mean like Paul's letters became the fricken Bible, right? It was just more than presumptuous to align one'self in spiritual significance with Paul. So. I could never really get with the Father in the word stuff beyound a figure of speech seeing as all VPW "fathered" us in was his OWN words. VPW didn't bring me the Bible. The Gideons did that. ? All I ever expected of him was that he'd teach some stuff from the Bible that modern churches didn't teach (the word as it hadn't been taught for centuries). Could it be that I communicated more in that "adopted grandfather" comment than I intended? Terms like teacher, coach, father, mentor are all more intimate to me than Adopted Grandfather. I also intended to communicate that it was he who more adopted me that I adopted him as "grandfather." He did the mentoring more than I requested to be mentored. So no. I don't think I get what you're saying Song. What ARE you saying?

Duh. I dunno. The short answer is yes. If CG had not dropped that POP bomb I think things would have been worse than they actually turned out to be. It was "healthy" in that same sense that a good butt whoopin' can be healthy for your kid. It was kinda wierd to me that I had "just decided" to go to Corps Night that night when I had stopped going regularly to CN's years ago. I was gald to be able to see & hear it for myself. Seeing and hearing the BOT respond to it, tears & all was really something. My thinking about it at the time was almost like the end justifies the means. I really didn't see any other way to do it. It was shocking, to say the least but only some of the details were surprising. In his opening remarks CG mentioned how he had taken the Biblically prescribed route to confront the trustees in what VP had described to him to be the potential last will & testament of TWI. I mean like, if we're all focused on turning the ship around back in the direction towards God... then POP was a good thing. Right? It was good in the sense that it vindicated those of us who POP referred to as "malcontents at HQ." During the 80's prior to POP HQ had become a "spiritual mess." What was once a close knit family had become a very cold and divided place. If I have my numbers correct, there were about 150 people on staff in 1979 when I came to work there and over 500 when I came back during my last year in residence in 82 and around 800 by 1985. After VP died in 86 things accellerated in the bad direction. Depending on which side of the fence you were on... people were defecting from stafe like - - "I can't take this any more." Others were like "Goodbye and good riddance, you were in the way of progress." How healthy was it? It basically put the brakes on "everything" that was going on at HQ. Everything turned towards "turning HQ around." There were a few "camps;" basically, the oldtimers vs. new, corporate types. The old ways was Vp's position that he would rather have a person who was willing to work with a good heart for God do a job than the most highly trained professional. The goal was to have "God-inspired professionals" in every position @ HQ. They began hiring people right out of PFAL and filling positions or taking new Corps grads who said they had "done it" or had a degree, or some work experience doing certain functions and plugging them in. In a lot of way the newby's didn't know their butt from a hole in the ground about HQ. Lots of the new hires felt there was something "spiritually superior" about them (why else would God have called them to HQ?) and "everybody had a psalm or a doctrine" about how things should be done. There was lots of arguing. Less & less work got done. Whereas we were once statistically more productive than similar corporations doing similar things, we became very unproductive. We used to win corporate awards, like we turned TWI's print dept fron a basic one color duplication shop to a fully functioning 4+ color printing facility on less than one year. The next year we won an award for being one of the top 100 in-house printing facilites in the US. TWI's computer folks developed one of the first computerized Bible in the world it was called "Wordworker - The Computerized New testament" Our motorcoaches won awards for having some of the best interior designs in coach technology at the time. Ambassador one was the first Convair 580 in the world to get the jet assist engine retrofit to become a "Super Convair," an award winning undertaking. The improvements made to NK Airport to accomodate Ambassador One also made it the best rural airport in Ohio and one of the best in the US. NK airport was considered an "international" ariport whn Amb1 flew from there. Twi (Al Grumelot) people invented a snow crawler people transport vehicle beyond the capabilities of those currently in service. It was called "The Snow Way." The plan was to use it at Camp Gunnison for winter tours up though the mountains, and sell it commercially for use at ski resorts, etc.... People were doing outstanding things in the arts, translations (like we republished William Jennings Syriac New Testament Lexicon, we [they] were working on an Aramaic Interlinear Bible) and all kinda of stuff. Things like developing some work on color-music harmony to be able to design architecture and interior design that could be done in visual "keys" that correspond with music. We had plans on the table for a Way Healing Arts Center that would focus on holistic healing practices and be designed with colors, themes etc. that were spititually "right-on" that would promote physical healing. VPW was involved w/ and spearheaded all of that stuff and more with his last few years of vitality. Ken McCaw had already won an international competition to write an anthem for the Olympics. We had done two 13 week seasons of "High Country Caravan - Entertainment For All People By Christians." That was well recieved in and Broadcast in TV markets all around the country. VP had been writing a column in the local News papers called "By The Way" - it was kind of an "out of the horse's mouth" perspective on the Way; editorials by VPW type of thing. They were a sort of apologetic explanatory educational thing about TWI. Each editorial ended with his personal tag line, "You are welcome at The Way." All of that stuff wound down and stopped right along w/VPW. When he died, the in-fighting escalated. Athletes of the Spirit was supposedly one of the key ventures in a spiritual/cultural revolution TWI was supposedly involved with. LCM made sure we basicallt turned all of ther esources of TWI towards AOS. It turned out to be crap. (Just in case you wondered how so many talented people could put out such a big load of crap.... Each area was happening simultaneously, LCM was approving (or disapproving everything) independantly of everything else. There was noone with any creative abilities overseeing the whole thing. I remember it was this big tadoo about the first wholescalre rehearsal. Very dissappointing.) When POP hit it became possible for some of us to say, "I told you so..." About things we'd been arguing about. There was a time when, "I knew VP's way" had some weight. Then people became "Gartmore-ites." Those who had the personal financial wherewithal to go, or whose job took them there went. The came back & begand speaking at night-owls, hoot-owls & stuff, singing the praises of CG and how Gartmore was what HQ once was. People went there on "returning to God" pilgrimiges (sp?). Then it became like, "If you haven't been to Gartmore, you haven't turned back to God." POP's fall-out turned into, "We've ALL turned from God, not just the trustees." Then. Where it had been that people gave us staffers carte blanc respect. They now looked at us like, "YOU did it, YOU killed VP." Yaaaa!!!!! I didn't kill anybody! From one perspective at first I think in general we felt it didn't matter how we got turned around, it was only important that we were turning. I was like.... "There aint no huge process. If you need to repent, REPENT, dammit! God don't live in Gartmore, he lives in ME. Christ IN you remember?" Geez, I haven't thought about this stuff for so long. My theory on the bottom line of POP is that there was a major power struggle, "everybody" (among the top leadership) wanted to be the next VP. Everybody wanted to have the access he had, invitations to Presidential inaugurations, the airplanes, motorcoaches, everything it seems. People forgot anything about having a personal place in the body of Christ where God had placed them. Pretty much any hop of TWI died w/ VPW. Not that he was so great, but he was standing in the way of other folks having the power. If it wasn't Chris W/ POP it would have happened later. Can you imagine what thigngs would have been like if JAL, Ralph, Vince, Etc. Were still arouond with LCM ranting like he did? There would have been a major mutiny anyway. POP. and it's fall-out saved a lot of folks a LOT of grief.

Man, this thread is so deep it makes me wanna use words like "wax." Know what I mean? Its like, when you look at someone's wedding photos, you "look back" at an event. You get out your old high school yearbook and "remenisce" about old times. This stuff we're talking about makes me want to "wax" nostalgic and "ponder" stuff about what was the haps back then. Catch my drift? I dunno, maybe I'm just bein my crazy, right-brained self. First. Sunesis. I'd never refer to you as "throw away." I do get your point though. Excie. You have a very unique experiential perspective to most of the rest of ours on this topic. I knew you back in the day at HQ. Always wanted to get to know you better - - it just never happened for some reason. You perspective gives great insight. Thanks honey. Song. Piecing together all these perspectives, the "simpleton explanation" theory on VP just can't be swept from the table, can it? From my singular perspective, that is, my body of experiences w/VPW... I mean, he was like an adopted Grandfather to me. I was a trusted friend of "the family." He even personally paid the last couple hundred bucks of my Way Corps tuition. That was THE single factor that enabled me to graduate from the corps. I saw that at the time as a big endorsement. I kept it to myself, basically because I felt it could easily become an elephant around my neck. I can't reasonably say, "I knew him pretty well" and he just wasn't what I call, "The Brain" as in 'Pinky & the The Brain' (the cartoon). I have the same questions.... Especially now that I'm a father, I could NEVER have forced my wife (Mrs. VPW told me of how she REALLY didn't want to...) sell all her stuff from our (HER) household to go on a trip to India. I wanted my wife to be breast-feeding our (HER) babies still at six months - - for the future health and well being OF THE CHILD. Mrs. told me/us on more than one occasion when we were heving twig in their basement that she & Vp fought about the India trip - as in argued loudly. I'm sure Donnie heard and participated in some of the arguments. To quote Donnie, "I hated Dad for what he put Mom through concerning that India trip...." My understanding of Donnies position was that he didn't feel God would have his dad do that to his Mom. Mrs. also told us of how people came forward to "buy" some of their/her most prized stuff surreptitiously under the guise of paying for it but in fact they donated to the trip, took the stuff for safe keeping while they were gone and showed up at the house after they got back & gave the stuff back. Now, as a veteran of two bitter divorces, I look back on the events prior and the story if the fabled India trip from a different perspective than I has as a 21 year old. WeWUZscammed.... "Hmmm.... I can get away with this." ... is the voice of temptation. The little red devil that appears over your left shoulder whispers that into the ear of EVERY pastor and leader of God's flock - - "all the time." Since were being so honest. I was tempted with the PRECISE same thing - - on more than one occasion, many times over. Perhaps the most shocking thing to me concerning spiritual leadership is the frequency and regularity of how many women feel it is "only natural" to repay a man who has blesed them "spiritually" by giving of themselves, physically. The reason I singled out women in this phenomena is because the basic anatural state of any adolescent male is that when it comes to any woman he feels is the LEAST bit attractive, he would just as soon f#@& her as talk to her .... for ANY (or NO) reason at all. He'd probably do ones he felt was ugly, if he had the time.... Guys are gross like that. We all have had to fight that off - - some more successfully than others. (What do YOU think they're thinking about when they "talk to your boobs?) SO. I KNOW he was confronted with that; the feeling that "I WON'T get away with it" is, in my opinion, the ONLY true deterrent to any crime of any kind. God's grace WAS sufficient. Not to toot my own horn, but I had one of the "hottest chick's imaginable" in my car alone, in the dark, on a deserted road, late at night, with her shirt off, headlights on high beam, ready to roll. (I was in a more appropriate age category with her.) I told her whoa, wait a minute. I'm a man of God, I CAN'T do this with you. God KNOWS I wanted to. I am a red -blooded American male, you know? I was alone. The only thing stopping me was my personal integrity. She WANTED me. NO ONE would have found out if I had any more than no one found out that I didn't. There was something different in VPW. I went on to attempt to actually help her. I tried to find out why she was so willing to "hook up with me." VPW had that same opportunity to REALLY help people. he "helped himself" to da booty. I'm not trying to demean or devaluize any victim. Reality demand that he couldn't have seen any victim as anything other than "booty." If he actually believed he was like "sexual healing" people, he DID scam himself.

Ok. This is the last one.... Many may feel that (overly simplified version) LCM came along and "ruined" the good ol' days of TWI. I don't. Craig was up front, he certainly contributed, but my theory is that it was a fractured relationship between DON Wierwille and VP that led to the downfall. Dysfunctional elements in his own nuclear family effected VP negatively. The thing with Don was major. VP was very hurt when Don REFUSED for years to work at HQ. Daughter Karen didn't go WOW or WC & moved away to a normal life with husband & family. Sara & JP WOULDN'T go corps for the LONGEST time. They HATED how "everyone" assumed they would "walk on water" and be so "spiritually great" because they were VP's children. My job put me in proximity and I became a friend of the family and got tho know them all well enough to know there was a LOT to their private family relationships that "nobody" knew. The information is "out there" and can be put together to show that VP, who was always, admittedly, a loose cannon DID, "middle finger" the NK community with his education and desire NOT to follow tradition and work the family farm. There are things you "just don't do" in New Knoxville and deeding your family farm over to a world renouned cult, bringing in all those outsiders is chief among them. Not to mention the other stuff like riding through town on the seat of your motorcycle and posting your argument on the door of "the big church" in town as being "completely unheard of." I can see him retreating into the trappings and lacivious "perks" of power & position for some sort of relief, maybe even comfort. He was devastated by his brother Harry's death. He often referred to "Uncle Harry" as his conscious. He was really unprepared to lose him and was in many ways "lost" without Harry. The old folks knew that Harry was the only person in the world who could "control" VP. VP knew he was extremely high strung a classic, extreme A1- Type 1 wild-foot entreprenuerial personality prone to getting "crazy ideas." He wanted and needed people around him who would stand up to him and tell him "NO. We can't do THAT." After Harry died few people would. I know in my relationship with him there were more than a few times he'd tell me about ideas he wanted to do and I'd just shake my head with bulging eyes, like "Noooo..... we can't do thaaaat..." Lots of people couldn't and didn't want to handle his high strung outbursts. He'd give you a really terse, "Well WHY NOT!" when you'd tell him no. Lots of folks thought he was trying to intimidate with his countenance when he challenged your ideas. I wasn't intimidated and told him more than once, "... because it just WON'T work." Or I'd say, "... because that outfit looks crazy on you!" He'd hesitate for a very uncomfortable, eternally long, second or two and then slap his thigh, the table, clap his hands once & shake them with that goofy hand thing he'd do. Then laugh. He got a kick out of people who were confident enough in what they did to not allow him to steamroller them. He also rolled over more than a few people because he was more high strung than considerate. In certain situations he could be VERY impatient. There were more than a few situations where I had to really grab my kehones and go face to face with him. He HATED it if I would back down from my ideas. "You're the professional, YOU tell ME what to do, don't ask me how to do what YOU do." ...is one of the major things I took from my relationship with him. I also learned from him how to manage "upwards" and "manage my managers." Don't get me wrong. I'm not excusing VP, just in some ways, explaning him. I did know him. I did work with him on many projects through the years. I count him among those who mentored me and some of the things he taught me are extremely valuable to me and make up strong pieces of who I am. I don't agree with MUCH of what he did - - although I can sorta see maybe why he did it. I've always felt that during the P.O.P. time it wasn't totally like the then current TRUSTEES who had turned away from God; as in THEY did but HE didn't. I felt it was more like He turned, they turned the rest of the way and now HE was trying to get THEM to turn back cause he saw how much HE had F'd up (like literally). So. In conclusion. My theory on VPW is that he didn't sit down at his desk & say... "Hmmm... let me see, I wanna be rich & powerful... what can I do...??? OK. I'll start a cult! I can fake some credentials, rip off some materials, put together some bogus class materials and attract bunches of young hot chicks to have sex with me. Yeah that'll work! I can SCAM th WHOLE world!" I think it was more like along the way to a genuine goal of moving God's word over the world he ran into some, perhaps anticipated stuff. And he felt, "Hmmm.... I can get away with this." I just see a lot of the stuff above as highly incongrous with the evil, let's take over the world mentality. "I'll make things SEEM really good when they're not, so I can keep people around & attract more people (as in hot chicks [or even luke warm ones]) to have sex with and live off their money." That just doesn't fit for me. Sorry this is so long but it makes references that cover at least 40, maybe 50 years. Hope this perspective helps.