Oakspear

Mike, you may be right, you may be wrong...I'm sure there are many "elements" to whatever you want to talk about...but no, I can't read your mind and figure out what exactly you are talking about. You crack me up. You contiinue to define the rules as you go along. When you make up the rules, don't tell anyone what they are, and decide who is worthy to debate you based on those secret rules, of course, in your own mind, you always win. Nice racket

I disagree with your conclusion here. He implied quite strongly that he was a prophet by defining a prophet as one who spoke for God, then making it clear that he was speaking for God. I also disagree with you that his failure to overtly claim prophethood disqualifies him from being a false prophet. My logical powers are failing me just now, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

No, I am comparing fresh air with the stink of sewage.

An urban legend is always believable on some level. IMHO this story was floating a round even before PFAL, and Wierwille latched onto it for teaching purposes.

If my memory serves me correctly, the only biblical title Wierwille overtly claimed was "teacher", in fact "THE Teacher". However he implied that he was due some of the other titles. His definition of apostle was tailored to apply primarily to him, and even prophet, "one who speaks for God", could arguably be defined to apply to him as well. Absence of his claim to prophethood does not invalidate calling him a false prophet, although false teacher may be closer to the mark for those of us who believe that he was indeed "false".

But in TWI there were no "tokens", everybody had to "speak the same thing". Your Mormonism, which is outside the GS "mainstream", is sometimes the object of attack, but there is absolutely nothing that stoips you from posting. In TWI, there was no debate, there was no meaningful discussion, if you didn't believe what the top dogs said to believe: see ya!

The big question is: Did he get a secret decoder ring with that doctorate?

Despite my southern neighbor's complaining about an unlevel playing field, Grease Spot has posters who hold a variety of opinions. Despite this site being primarily to expose the "other side" to TWI's claims, PFAL fans and Wierwille fans of all stripes post freely. True, the "majority" often "gangs up" on the minority voices, but they continue to type away, unedited, if unheeded. We even get the occassional "innie" singing the praises of their fellowship and the wisdom of TWI "leadership". What kind of freedom existed or exists in TWI? Would Mark O'Malley or Templelady be free to discuss Catholocism or Mormonism? Would I be able to talk about my wife's tarot reading business? Would Raf be able to discuss actual errors in PFAL? Or for that matter would Mike be able to hold forth on the god-breathed nature of PFAL, or would Oldiesman be free to claim that abundant sharing as taught in Christians Should Be Prosperous is unbiblical? For each of you "innies" or Wierwille fans who think that there is too much negative said about your heroes, what would have happened if Wierwille or Martindale were told that they were being too negative about the Pope, or Jews, or Teddy Kennedy? Grease Spot is a messy, sometimes rude and uncouth forum that sometimes seems like a bar room brawl in progress or maybe a grade school playground spat. I'll take it any day over the enforced "likemindedness" of TWI.

No...we don't hear enough. Oh, and btw, does your "leadership" know that you're posting here? Posting here is part of why I was booted out of TWI

Part of the definition of an urban legend is a story that always happens to someone else, no one claims to have seen it, or experienced it, or seen documentation. It's always "I talked to soemone who..." or 'I know someone who..." - never first person.

White Dove: Whether Wierwille "compiled" works from other authors, or "stole" them has little to do with whether he was a false prophet, IMHO. Futhermore, the truth or "accuracy" of these teachings was but a part of what went into the genuineness of his "ministry". In my mind, what made Wierwille a false prophet was using what he taught to take advantage of and control others.

Dude, it was mail order doctorate

While the answer of "I stand with God" is the right one for a Christian who doesn't want to blindly follow a man, we were all part of an organization that expected just that from us, if not from day one, then from very early on. Wierwille demanded it as well, but was smart enough to (usually) cloak it in more diplomatic tones. Attempting to remain within TWI without agreeing to blindly follow its head ignored the way things were. Trying to "stand with God" could best be accomplished with TWI by ignoring its true nature. Martindale screwed himself by not reigning in his true nature, by believing his own press clippings, and demanding what Wierwille was able to get from us with honey, rather than vinegar.

what I want to know is: where is that champagne that got uncorked after we found all those actual arrors?

...and the non sequiter society is heard from again <_< Despite the supposed unlevel playing field, dissenting opinions still abound.

If the shoe fits, White Dove...

Soooooo.... ...what does the term "Wierwillite" mean to you?

That is most un-Christian thing to say and you can be a better man if you forgive them Couldn't resist...

The term "Wierwillite" gets tossed around here a lot. For those who use it, just what do you mean by it? Me, when I use it, I am talking about someone who uncritically accepts Wierwille's teachings. I do believe that some of what Wierwille taught could be justified biblically, but that due to the tangled web of plagiarism, lying, poor scholarship, and yes, his personal immorality, PFAL and his other teachings cannot be used as a starting point for finding the truth or biblical understanding.

Thanks Mark...well said...bless your mackeral-snapping heart ;)

Sure, Mark. Maybe this isn't true for you, but based on past performance, there are some posters whose posts I accept more readily than others. If I catch someone making a false statement, I'm less likely to take what they say at face value in the future. I see your point...to a point - I guess other posters' imaginary friends aren't my business

posting in big yellow letters doesn't make it so

Or maybe daddy "Ken" wasn't posting at all. Would someone who who graduated from the Way Corps in 1985 say that 'I went to the Way and graduated in 1985'? The little credibility that ckmkeon had has vanished.

Yeah, that's what I want to know, as well as what does "I went to The Way" mean? It was in the second posted that allegedly was by ckmkeon's father, Ken, before it was edited, I caught it before he edited it.

So, ckmkeon, what did your "dad" mean by that before "he" edited it out?