Oakspear

The "Law of Believing" could probably be found in multiple sources. I have a book by Florence Scovell Shinn, who lived in the early decades of the twentieth century, and taught a version of the "law". When I read a book by her last year I was surprised at how similar it was to what Wierwille taught. What really got me was a phrase that was very similar to "the greatest cargoes of life come in on quiet seas".

I no little or nothing about dancing...I always cringed at the attempts at martial arts moves. :(-->

Well, the bible says that God is no respector of persons, but not everybody gets equal benefits, do they? Not eveybody does get healed, do they?

Yes I am ;)--> - as sure as I can be after not having seen PFAL since 1994.

There was one huge surprise: My son Thomas, who is stationed in Japan on the USS Kitty Hawk, told me that he would not be able to attend. He walked in five minutes before the ceremony.

Tom's vows to Susie: I looked in your eyes Across the dance floor and heard your voice As we stood on future’s thresh hold Your directness, your joy of living Caused me to desire more I promise To love you always And always receive your love To protect and nurture you And accept the same from you You bring me that which I lack As I give to you of my own strengths As long as I draw breath go síoraí mo chroì graim thú Forever, my heart, I love you

When you can't afford a wedding planner, ya gots to do it all yerself ;)-->. Although I did have some invaluable help from my two eldest sons, one who works in a restaurant, and took care of food delivery, prep, and service like the pro that he is.

That was Bullinger he was talking about

I don't think VP ever said that he came up with the idea independently.He said numerous times (and wrote) that he learned from various men of God, scattered across the continent. As far as him saying that God would teach him the Word as it hadn't been known since the first century if he would teach others: God teaching him the Word doesn't have to be direct revelation without human contact. His statement could also mean that God taught him the Word, thru men of God, scattered across the continent, along with his own study and reasoning ability. You're right, he did say that he learned from other men, but he also claimd that HE put it all together - RHST, for example, was put together already by Stiles. He claimed repeatedly that those that he "learned from" were missing it in one area or another - Leonard, for instance, supposedly taught about his experiences, but Wierwille "put it all togther from The Word" - yet large amounts of PFAL were lifted directly, with minimal changes, from Leonard's class. I'm not talking about whether or not the teachings had any worth, just that they were plagiarized, i.e. STOLEN from the people that he supposedly learned from.

"old serpent" is not found in the OT. The phrase is found in revelation. He is referred to as "the serpent" in genesis 5 times.

I thought that about some of what he wrote and taught, but there were large chunks that he claimed, or at least implied, that he came up with on his own, and which he clearly got from others. To bring up Receiving the Holy Spirit Today again: Wierwille mentioned learning from others and studying the "holy sppirit field" for years, but he presented RHST as his own, his masterpiece, so to speak. Maybe I believe that the popes are infallible when speaking on matters of doctrine. There's nothing wrong with me telling other people what a great thing that is, or how much I believe it, as long as I don't claim (overtly or by implication), that I came up with the idea independently, or that God said that he'd teach me all about papal infallibility, as long as I would teach others, complete with snow on the gas pumps!

Word-for-word is definitely plagiarism. No question there. Here's a definition of plagiarism from Georgetown University http://www.georgetown.edu/honor/plagiarism.html It's not just word-for-word. For example, sections of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today are very close to word-for-word. Some words are changed, but it is very obvious that he took Stiles' work and adapted it. Wierwille's teachings on dispensationalism are not plagiarism. For one, he differs from Bullinger on important aspects , and two, dispensationalism is a school of thought, wherein there can be many variations. A theologian or teacher is free to take the idea and put there own spin on it. It would have been plagiarism if Wierwille had copied Bullinger's writings with little or no changes and claimed them for his own. Note that this links indicates that even paraphrse is plagiarism if ciations are not provided.

Spider-Man! :D-->

The MOGs seemed to like to "play dress-up". The stupid clothing choices goes bcak to Wierwille. Remember some of the Liberace-like suits he used to wear to the ROA?

Don't run into too many people who've heard of BB&A, let alone seen 'em in concert...I'm impressed.

I plan ahead, so I don't do anything now

set up is in a half hour...the wedding is in 4 1/2. I got the time :D-->

Time to be pedantic :D-->Islam is most accurately translated as "submission (to God)", not peace. Salam is "peace". You are correct about the major sects being Shi'a and Sunni, but Muslim is not a sect, but what one calls a follower of Islam, it means "one who submits (to God)"

How in the h*ll can you talk about tithing without bringing money into it? --> Or can you tithe soemthing other than money in this day and time?

Yeah, well, this site isn't intended for Wierwille apologists and starry-eyed nostalgia about TWI, but both are allowed here :D-->

Which Weenie wants to be the Marvin guardian?I've got a few pictures of ol' Marv already: one with my turtle collection, one in the bosom of our goddess statue, one each with Oakmom, Reikilady and Donner. I'll be instructing the photographer tomorrow to get more with some guests. We had a get together of family (and Donner) tonight at a local buffet. My parents, my two oldest sons and Reikilady's son and daughter and son's girlfriend.

Yes, put that way, I agree with you Oldies, but that wasn't usually what it was:Wierwille would hold forth on something for which he had no biblical foundation. I'm not saying he did this all the time, but you and I both know that there were plenty of occassions where he would say something along the lines of "we haven't found the text yet, but it's got to be such-and-such". Anyway, someone would ask for an explanation and be brushed off and told that they needed to gain more maturity, or they would get it if they were faithful, or some other dodge. Those weren't situations where no one had the answer, Wierwille taught about it. If he was the great resaerch and teaching whiz, then he HAD the answer. But in reality, he didn't have an anser, he was shooting from the hip, or massaging scripture or concepts to fit one of his other doctrines. He, and his "leaders" had to put people off, because there WAS NO ANSWER. Now, you mentioned that you received written answers to your questions. I did too on a few occassions, especially when I was new to TWI and was asking fairly basic questions. Any complex or deep questions were pushed aside, though. Bad new days too - but many of us believed that that TWI was the place where God's Word lived, and when we saw what we perceived as an error, we didn't want to jump ship when we disagreed, but wanted to either come to an understanding of why we were wrong, or convince "leadership" that the doctrine needed to be changed.

Not everyone who smokes dies young, Oldies. There was also the persistant Way mythology that "believing" would override any health concerns. If he hadn't spent a chunk of his time deriding others who didn't believe, or point out these other people who died young (or would die young, as per his prediction) due to their negative believeing, then it wouldn't be an issue, but he did. It's an issue, and a topic of discussion because he succumbed to what he mocked others for.

Gotta wonder how long these guys lasted...(I`d LOVE to hear that they were alive and well) when ol vp only lasted what...ten years after making this statement? Alla that peace and going with God didn`t really ensure HIM a free pass from an early death did it? Seems to be there might be some flaw in his logic... Are you assuming that these guys he's talking about even existed?

Wierwille seems to portray himself as "good-at-everything": basketball, motorcycle riding (and repair), guitar playing, business ("I was offered a job as Vice-President of AB Dick")...you name it, but that he "gave it all up for The Word" In many ways these "stow-ries" remind me of the class geek who wants to inflate his importance by telling tales of all the great people he knows and the wonderful adventures he has...when no one else is around.