Oakspear

The great Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic scholar Wierwille, when holding forth on acrostic psalms, tells us that the first four letters of the Hebrew alphabet are alpha, beta, gamma, delta... ...I shoulda left then :P-->

HerbieJuanDictatorDude: We can use the room that Sudo and I are sharing as the initial meeting spot, since we plan on getting there early and providing coffee and Sudo's better-than-sex stew to the gathering throng. Jim Martin! Hope you can make it!

1977-78: once 1978-79: maybe four times, on the crew each time 1979-80: probably another four times, crew again every time; two of them ran in my house 1980-81: WOW year - one class (we were pitiful) - I think only two of the "new students were "witnessed to" by our WOW family - the other five were duped by the WOWvets and locals before we got there mid-year 1981-82: three - coordinated one 1982-83: once - then took an extended TWI break 1990-91: once - my oldest son was in the class, six out of eight people were children of grads 1991-92: No classes run in Nebraska 1992-93: No classes run in Nebraska 1993-94: Twice. My second oldest son was in the first one, but we had to drive to Omaha for it. The second was run by the WOWs; I had a guy in it that I was "undershepherding", and had to get a dispensation from the Trunk office or maybe the archangel Michael to have him in the class 1994-95: Three times. The last year of PFAL in TWI. Was Assistant Coordiantor twice. The final one ended just days before we all left for the ROA. What's that, twenty?We were usually, if not always, told that there was always more in the class to learn. After a while I figured I must be dense, or unspiritual, or something to be missing the new stuff that I should be seeing. By the tenth or twelfth time I started straining at gnats looking for stuff, and coming up with new slants on things out of the air. Funny, I usually saw the "actual arrors", and other goofs in PFAL, but either convinced myself that there was more to it than I was seeing, or excused them somehow. The three-hour long sessions were rough on most people, but were defended by all as the "best" way to do it; of course until WayAP came along and the sessions were shortned to two hours.

One benefit, albeit learned after decades of stupidity, is that I carefully examine what I am told, and believe nothing without some kind of verification. I don't allow anyone to meddle in my personal affairs. I guess those are lessons learned after negative experiences. As Georgio mentioned, I learned in TWI a level of detail and organization that has served me well.

It was a seires of events and situations. Throughout the early to mid-nineties it was a low-level disgust at the hypocrisy at the local level (wasn't yet aware of the higher levels), people who mouthed "The Word", yet didn't practice it. In the mid to late nineties it was the rising discomfort at the incessant meddling by so-called leadership. When the Allen lawsuit was announced it started a progressive questioning of all TWI's practices, as well as it's core doctrines. Eventually they kicked me out, primarily for posting on Waydale & Grease Spot Cafe.

Ten Days Yeah Sudo, if we don't get some more people I may have to drink some extra pahr juice - speaking of which...what's happening with Hawk...is he comin'? I was going to bring a batch of sausage, peppers and onions for the opening festivities, but don't look like we'll need it with this crowd. How are we fixed for food for the rest of the weekend? Should I bring a batch anyway? (It's vacuum-packed, so it should travel well - just heat and serve) Who's the roomie wwjla? Rascal & and maybe some of the 14th tribe Oakspear Sudo Herbal WWJLA & maybe a room mate BOWTWI & princess

11 days

13 days

Rascal & and maybe some of the 14th tribe Oakspear Sudo Herbal WWJLA BOWTWI & princess 15 days to go

Sudo: Check your private topics please

Well, at least his biographers said it ;)-->

Rascal & family(?) is the whole tribe and dogs goin' rascal? Oakspear - confirmed Sudo - confirmed Herbal - confirmed WWJLA - confirmed :D-->no, you're not fried pork rinds! Just tryin' to get a realistic number. It seems these get togethers attract lots of attention, but since we all have lives the number who actually show up is a lot less than the initial interest. It has been a long time since rock & roll :D-->

Thanks for your well-meaning post jetc57, you certainly seem sincere. You did state a lot of things as facts, however, that I (in my opinion) would classify as opinion. We don't all agree on the value of the PFAL class, the "ministry" (if it even was a mionistry) or on Wierwille himself. That being said you are welcome to your opinion of all of the above. Why pick apart each others' faults? Not to place blame, not to attack, but to continue to place the spotlight on an organization that is still doing harm, even though you or I may have left it and moved on with our lives. Same with living in the past. There are many people still in TWI who don't know a lot of this stuff, if one person leaves TWI because of Grease Spot, then it was all worth it...and more than one has. You don't care what The Way is doing? That's your decision. They're still hurting people...so I care. Thanks for your good intentions, and the road that they pave :D-->

Paragraphs added by me :D-->

Rascal & family(?) Oakspear Sudo Herbal WWJLA come on...speak up

Can youse (or y'all :D-->) who are going post whether you are going for sure and when you plan on arriving? Mainly so the food coordinators know how many mouths are being fed. I'll be arriving 3:00 PM or so. Bringing a coffee pot, plastic stuff and some italian sausage & peppers to supplement the Better'n Sex Stew provided by Sudo.

you da man d!

Heathens? Infidels? How do you view those who believe differently than you do? How do differing beliefs fit into your world-view? (The poll choices are anything but complete!)

Right on Dr. Rascal!

Yeah! What Lindy said!

I remember the article Mike mentioned. I've even taught most of the stuff that's in the CES article. So Jeff, why do you think the article is so great? What did you think about it?

Mark S: I'm referencing RG's post where he said that much of the apocrypha did not fit with the rest of the bible. My argument is that if we assumed that any of these apopcryphal books were god-breathed, as we assume that the canonical books are, we would find a way to make them fit with the canonical books. The other side of the coin is that there are apparent contradictions throughout the bible, we make them fit, because we think that they have to, not because it all self-evidently fits together.

Oldies: I believe that his analogy does relate to the discussion. Not perfectly, but it makes a good point.

Abi: Good point about the names and rituals of the old deities changing. Many people in the pre-Christian era, and even well into it, saw the gods and goddesses as the same across cultural lines. Zeus = Jupiter = Odin = Dagda = et al. The rituals reflected differences in culture, as the names often did also. In fact Jesus = Mithra = Osirus wasn't unheard of either. Longevity doesn't mean as much as some would have it. Sure Christianity has been around for about 2,000 years, and sure it supplanted Norse, Celtic and other beliefs; but what about Buddhism and Hinduism that it did not supplant? Both of those belief systems pre-date Christianity, and are still going strong today. I do agree that no one was ever truly convinced to believe at swordpoint, but mass conversion of entire tribes and nations were the rule rather than the exception after Christianity got the power of the Roman Empire behind it. Ireland is a notable exception to the general rule. The Irish apparently converted willingly, person by person or family by family. After the large scale conversions of the 4th century and following, whether an area converted willingly or not became moot, since it often became illegal to cling to the old religions or start new ones. You were forced to remain a Christian, unless you wanted to be burned.

Sky: I don't know about the ex-TWI "community" at large, but the non-Christians are a minority at GS. Most of us have posted on this thread. It is my observation that if one hooked up with TWI in order to know God or Jesus better, more often than not a separation from TWI would not slow that down, the goal is still there. Most people that I knew got involved with TWI as part of their quest for God, because it seemed to explain the Christianity that they were already involved with. After TWI getting involved in a church or ex-TWI offshoot seemed the most natural thing to do. Look at the most prolific GS posters: Christian or no? excathedra - yes Zixar - yes Dot Matrix - yes Tom Strange - yes Raf - yes dmiller - yes Mister P-Mosh - no me - no Steve! - yes ChattyKathy - yes mj412 - yes vickles - yes Shellon - yes