Oakspear

Galen: Do you have some information that William Samarin is not a linguist or that there was anything wrong with his study? The reason I am asking is that you put quotes around linguist and studied - doing that indicates skepticism about the words enclosed in quotes. How about speaking in tongues for George's son? I'd pay for the phone call.

Use the Doctrinal Forum, it's not being used for doctrinal discussions much these days

As usual, no discussion from the guy who posted the link; kind of reminds me of the recorded political phone calls I find on my answering machine every day.

The fool hath said in his heart "there are no brownies"

Now not everything that Wierwille bakes is necessarily a brownie

And we ceased, saying, the brownies of the Lord are done

...now any brownies that were baked aforetime were for our learning...

Apollos, the great brownie-tongued orator...

The recipe for the brownies is as much the brownies as the brownies are the brownies

Greeeeeeaaaaaaat are the brownies of the Ephesians...greeeeeeaaaaaaat are the brownies of the Ephesians...

That's right, you move your lips, your throat, your tongue...eat the wonderful brownies of God

What was Paul's thorn in the flesh? Why it was brownies peepul...

Maybe because Jesus was sent to Israel while Paul was a minister to the gentiles?

I've gotten to the point that I'm not overflowing with venom every time I discuss Wierwille, Martindale or The Way. I don't plot the destruction of Way HQ or fantasize about assasinating Way leaders. I could probably be civil to any of my former "overseers" if I ran into them at the mall. Is that forgiveness? If so, then I've forgiven. However, I think that the premature deaths of the Wierwilles: Vic, Harry and Don was karma in action, and I'm glad that they didn't enjoy long healthy lives. My primary Way Corps tormenter during the nineties is also dead...and I'm happy about it. He got what he deserved. Would I shed a tear for my former fellowship coordinator who was instrumental in destroying my family if he was the recipient of some form of destruction? Nope. Does this mean that I haven't forgiven? If any one of those who hurt me and mine simply said "I'm sorry, I was wrong", I'd embrace them and put their actions out of my mind.

Hey, I've seen Rascal get emotional...this ain't it :P-->

...it's brownies in you, brownies in you, BROWNIES in you, the hope a' glowry...what chocolate we have...if we only knew it

...this class will be for you a safe brownie in the sea of Krispy Kreme doughnuts...

Sky: I own one side of the brownie and am thinking about buying the other side...I can lick any brownie in town tonight!

thanks dmiller yes ala, he attended something, there was a pic in the Way Mag of Wierwille & his wife as well as the Limb Coordinator of DC and his wife all dressed up standing out on a lawn in DC somewhere.

Why, I've forgotten more about brownies than you ever knew

Thanks for doing my research for me Catcup ;)--> - I let my ex-wife keep all the Way books and publications - including a stash of Way mags and collateral booklets going way back. I decided that I didn't want any of that in my home, although in retrospect I could participate more effectively in some debates here if I had my old books! :D--> I agree with you wholeheatedly about things being presented as "fact" that are not. This does hurt our collective credibility. Denominational smear campaigns full of b.s. and fantasies back in the 70's and 80's only strengthened my resolve when I saw their obvious fabrications. However... Speculation, IMHO, is fine, as long as it doesn't masquerade as fact. None of us know Wierwille's true thoughts or motivations, or what he was trying to do by setting the founding of The Way when he did. However, there appears to be a pattern of self aggrandizment: Famous people who took PFAL after they achieved fame have their success credited to PFAL and TWI; worldwide status is claimed when many countries claimed to have a Way presence have a military couple or one small fellowship; originality is claimed when plagarism is the demonstrable fact; world renowned theologians are name-dropped as if they were drinking buddies...etc. While you provide some insight as to why he might have used the October 1942 date as the founding of "his ministry", the big picture allows flexibility and alternative opinions.

There is no "one" inaugural ball. There are many that go on simultaneously with an average of 5000 people at each. The new President and First Lady visit them all during the course of the evening. Wierwille was not invited to attend an inaugural ball or any other event by President Reagan, nor did he host an event. "Invitations" to inaugural events can be requested from congressional offices. Apparently this is what Wierwille did. He is listed on a database of tens of thousands of others who requested and received invitations that year, including someone who called himself "The King of the Gypsies". Karl Kahler discusses this in his book with quotes by people on the inaugural committee as well as former U.S. Senator Bob Dole. I quoted it somewhere around here but can't find it

There were definitely "celebrities" who took PFAL and were used in a promotional pamphlet, over and above the "TWI Urban Legends" about famous PFAL grads. In addition to Collins, Jim Schoenfeldt, then of hockey's Buffalo Sabres and Bob Donaldson, a rodeo clown were briefly around in the early 80's.

Catcup: Good point about exaggeration; but I think it depends on when he started referring to anniversaries of his "ministry". If he started doing it in 1943, the difference between 1941 and 1942 would be trivial, I agree. There is every indication that his "ministry" was a side project for much of the 40's anyway. If he started celebrating anniversaries in, say, the late sixties, like when he filmed PFAL, or when growth began to accelerate, adding a decade or fifteen years to the "ministry's" longevity would be significant. Another problem for me: if 1942 was so significant as the beginning of what would become The Way, and he accomplished so much "digging the Word", why was he again ready to "chuck it all" in 1953 (or was it '52?) when he went to Tulsa?

I wonder. In no one record is there anything other than three denials, nor 2 others crucified. Sure, there are apparent contradictions among the various records, but is the bible necessarily to be understood as having "mathematical exactness and scientific precision"? The Semitic mind didn't work that way; strict chronology wasn't of paramount importanace. Do you really think God designed the bible to be a puzzle to be solved, or a plain and simple record?