Zixar

Adios/Steve: Some days my tolerance for other people's crap isn't as high as on others. Ginger jumped all over me for something that was ancillary to the topic at best, so I responded in kind. Then, true to form, off she went on some scatterbrained (flighty? ditzy? unfocused? irrelevant? Pick your favorite synonym.) tangent about the Tombstone movie. As for "noise", here's the definition of that: "A disturbance, especially a random and persistent disturbance, that obscures or reduces the clarity of a signal." I stand by my description. Ginger's a big girl and can start and finish her own fights. Even if not, there's plenty of people around here who'll rush up to her with a cookie and a "Pay no attention to the nasty man, Gin-gin!" or somesuch. I doubt she's half as fragile as folks make her out to be. Now, are we going to continue to heap noise on the signal, or squelch it and return to the topic?

satori: Not very original, I'm afraid. The Church of the Sub-Genius offers most of what you do, as well as "Eternal Salvation or TRIPLE Your Money Back!!!" Good try, though.

Long gone: Well said. CFF can be thought of as sort of a test case for "Way-like beliefs", for want of a better term. What better test to see if there actually was a baby in all that bathwater we threw out when we left TWI? With no Wierwille, Martindale, or Tree structure, a policy of openness, and keeping finances at the twig level, who knows what could have become of TWI? I think it's worth finding out, one way or the other. (No pun intended.) Peace, Zix

This is Greasespot Cafe, after all, where right or wrong doesn't matter. All you need to do is find a bunch of cronies to lend your rants some validation, and you're in like Flynn. Topics aren't relevant, and any wrong done you in the past totally justifies any wrong you do in the future. What WAS I thinking? Now where were we? Tombstone? "Are you going to do something, or you just gonna stand there and bleed?" Or was it a beer-up so we could all go p1ss on Wierwille's grave? No, wait, or was it more feel-good psychobabble and fortune-cookie platitudes? Damn, I've lost my place again...

Then in your response to Ginger you said: Zixar, to me these words mean that you want Exxie to just get over it. I can see how one might think that. It's not what I meant, though. Can you imagine how hard it is to get over such a thing. I can only begin to guess. My point was not that the abused should just "get over it", for I believe that recovery is a process that takes time. My point was that a victim has control over his or her own further exposure to the abusive influence. Yes, he is dead but like I said before so is Hitler. Am I comparing VP to Hitler, maybe I am. The point is I am trying to get to a point where you can understand what it is like to be a victim. I think you can have compassion for someone who was victimized by Hitler and the anger they might feel even though he has been dead for many many years. I agree with you. The problem is that, under your analogy, Hitler's victims are spreading their entirely rightful hatred for Hitler to an undeserved hatred of all Germans, in this case. That's neither fair, nor supported by the evidence. That's why I posted the other question. Since we can obviously establish that NOT everything Wierwille was responsible for is evil, we show that the idea that says otherwise is false on its face. How insensitive you would seem to them if you told them "The length of time you allow dead people to abuse you is entirely up to you" Displacing the blame on whom Zixar? As I said above, anyone or anything even remotely related to VPW, when it was VPW who was responsible.

For all of you who think that any thing that has anything to do with Wierwille is sheer, unadulterated evil, let me ask you this: I was standing not 3 feet away from VPW's grandson and namesake on Friday evening. Should I have shot him to stem the "evil"?

What color is the sky in your world Zixar? You have said some bizarre stuff but hey you are entitled to believe what you want. As far as Gingie being willfully ignorant and a scatterbrain, you obviously do not know her! I do and she is a very smart person. I have more to say, but first I have to go count to a billion! AMC: People disagree. That's normal. What I object to is people blasting me for things they only THINK I said. I've never condoned VPWs abuses. Not once. For GingerTea to infer that I was doing so indicates your perception of her intelligence may not be quite so high as you'd think.

Originally posted by Ginger Tea: >>>~ Like, do you have a short memory, or what? >>>'Those who re-live the past, are doomed to repeat it' Would it actually have been that much trouble to look it up? Here's the actual Santayana quote: "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Thse who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." >>>AND >>>'Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me' * * * >>>I forget where these pearls of wisdom come from, right now, because I'm seething at the lousy, poor, thoughtless remark made to Excathedra ~ It's no fault of mine if you took offense. >>>Who are you to judge what anothers' crimes are, in effect, to other people, that they should be forgiven or forgotten because someone Dead now!!! I said nothing of the sort, but would it be too much trouble for you to actually READ what I wrote? Apparently so. >>>>Many lousy people, S.O.B.'s, and downright evil people are dead, yet, their legacy lives on...in the hearts and minds of their victims, or in others' collaborating and in agreement with the evil doers lifestyles... The length of time you allow dead people to abuse you is entirely up to you. Displacing the blame only serves to make the vicitmization linger. >>>You just need to feel loved, and follow a group, don't you? Irrelevant. I posted what I actually SAW, not what I wished to believe. You might try it some time. >>>If that's what you want to do, continue to take the same medicine, go right ahead But, I wouldn't tell someone else to get over anything, to make your ~ how can I put this ~ transition, or consideration, any easier ~ Straw men are always easy to knock down. It's the effort involved in your building one that strikes me as a waste. * * * >>>>Everyone should just stop talking about their mindful experiences and education, their information about 'cults' because Zix got a fix!!!All the books are wrong now too, I guess! (wonder why these authors aren't sued?) Heaven only knows what THAT little rant was about. * * * >>>Cheat yourself all you want, but you don't have a right to tell victims...to cheat themselves from the growth and processes that go along with surviving 'cultists', perverts, liars, plagarists, leachers, cruel abusers, or anyone else who put one in harm's way! Dead or Alive!! Ginger Tea Wow. What color is the sky in your world, anyway? I mean, doesn't it physically HURT to be that willfully ignorant? I usually tolerate your scatterbrained derailings with a due sense of exhaustion and dread, but my buffer is finally full. Let me put this in very simple terms: You weren't there. You don't know how every individual inside CFF feels about VPW. You obviously don't know how I feel about VPW. I do not advocate CFF. I do not condemn CFF. I went to see for myself, which is more than most of the posters on this thread did. The world is not as black and white as you want it to be. My email address is posted. The next time you get your panties in a wad over something you thought I meant, use it. I might read it, or I might killfile it. Either way, it will keep this kind of noise off the forum.

Who is dead, after all. What point is there in letting him stress you any more from beyond the grave? The example I referred to was Rev. Splinter telling Dot Matrix that she "couldn't wipe her *** if it wasn't for PFAL." [shrug] Let every man be fully persuaded. Nobody held a gun to my head when I went. Nobody knew who I was, so it's not like they put on a show just for me. At least I now have firsthand experience of CFF and not just a bunch of hot air from those whose only knowledge of the group is from the internet. Take the torches and pitchforks down to the next house--I'm not joining any "cult" witch hunts today.

I did have my laptop, but no modem, so I couldn't report from the field. I'll skip the description of the grounds, save to say that it's quite a nice place, nestled in the Ohio cornfields. I was very happy to meet InDebtSaysWho and his charming wife NapkinLady, Igotout, and ResearchGeek and Catcup. As fine a group of folks as you're likely to meet anywhere, genuinely friendly and likeable. I think what struck me the most about the weekend was the complete sense of freedom. If you didn't want to go to one of the teachings (or if you slept through the morning session), no one said anything to you. No one tried to rope you into "volunteering" to "bless" people. Yet if you did need some help, or want some company, it was available in great supply. You know, it reminded me of the good times I did have while I was in TWI. When it was about grace instead of condemnation, that sort of thing. I understand how people who got a really bad taste from TWI might be extremely wary of CFF, but remember, there was something about TWI that kept us there in the first place. (I can only speak about my times of course, right after VPW died. Those who suffered through the worst of the Craig years may not even know what I'm talking about.) It was also nice not to be guilted into "abundantly sharing". Apparently CFF is not at all hurting for money, although they do charge for their five-part Living in God's Power class, $30 per part, and other tape/CD teaching series. I did sense a bit of variation in beliefs from some of the other folks I spoke with, some talking straight 1960-vintage TWI, others looking to burn LCM at the stake. In other words, your local fellowship may vary from those in another state. That's good and bad, in that there is no central dictator like TWI, but it may also result in inconsistency among the public fellowships. Some might get ResearchGeek, others might get "Rev. Splinter". From what I saw this weekend though, the top leadership leans towards compassion and grace rather than whitewashed TWI legalism and VPW worship. Revs. Clapp and Shroyer didn't set off my "jackfoot detector" like so many of the TWI clergy used to. Your experience may vary, but the honest thing to do is see for yourself, and not base your judgement on one really bad example, or on the word of someone who's trying to brand CFF a cult to further their own purposes. All I can say is, I'd go again next year, if circumstances permitted. I'm not running right out to toe the CFF line, but I'm certainly not "mark and avoid"ing them either. God bless! Zix

"Zixar" was a mistake, actually. When I first discovered Waydale, their forums were hosted by ezBoard, which stores your login ID in a cookie in your browser, and a global ezBoard ID is good for all ezBoard forums. I had picked the Zixar ID for some other site that apparently had an ezBoard forum too, so when I posted the first time at Waydale, it automatically logged me in as Zixar. The name came from an old Dungeons & Dragons character I used to play. It was a bit of a lazy choice, the character previous who got killed was Fyvar, (5R), so 6R or Zixar followed. Yes, there was a Sevenar, too. But by that time I got involved with this cult thing, and, well... Anyway, the name stuck and was easy to type, so that's the story. Well, it beats the heck out of "Reece", anyway... The dive bomber icon is a new choice because fasteel duplicated my old one. Not that it particularly meant anything, I just figured it would be easier for me to change to avoid confusion. God bless! Zixar the Accidental (Apparently "zixar" actually means something in Polish, because if you Google it, the word appears in a lot of sites with a ".pl" extension. Go figure.)

Dot: I think it's difficult to say what's causing your problems. I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. It may very well be some sort of adverse reaction to an environmental toxin, but if the mercury leached out of your fillings that fast, the amalgam would weaken and fall out by its own. You know, there is another possibility. Stomach ulcer repair surgery used to be the #1 performed procedure in the US, until the true culprit was discovered. A bacterium, Helicobacter pylori, was discovered quite by accident, since it's so difficult to culture outside of the body. Now, ulcers can be treated with a course of cheap antibiotics, a little Pepto-Bismol (works wonders against H. pylori), and a few months on acid reducing drugs like Prilosec. Kill the bacteria, and the stomach heals itself rather quickly. Who knows what other little buggers are swimming around inside us that we just haven't found yet? Heck, you might even have a case of worms, for that matter. Take two happy pills and call me in the morning. That'll be $120. Cash. God bless! Zix

As I've said before, the human body is pretty good at removing or neutralizing small amounts of toxic materials without harm. The mercury-containing preservative Thimerosal has been used to preserve vaccines and eye drops for almost 70 years. There are some individuals who are allergic to mercury compounds who do have mild reactions to thimerosal, but these are the exception rather than the rule. If you wish to limit your exposure to mercury, that's a sensible thing to do. All I ask is that you don't overreact to the risks. There are nutbars who want to do away with using sodium nitrite in processed meat, thinking increased botulism death is a small price to pay to attack a small increase in cancer rates. Or the hoo-hah over NutraSweet because it uses methanol as a binder. The amount of methanol in aspartame is tiny and the liver is well-equipped to detoxify it.

While selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants like Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, etc. are fairly benign drugs, there are common side effects and withdrawal problems. Effexor, and especially Paxil, can interfere with or inhibit orgasm in the male. If this is of concern to you, you may wish to ask for Welbutrin instead. You have a slightly higher risk of seizures on Welbutrin, so you have to weigh the risk yourself. Antidepressants aren't "happy pills", but they do work. After the first week, you notice that little things just don't bother you as much as they did before. They don't make you high, they don't dull your mind, they just make you feel "better", even though you may not have realized how bad you felt in the first place. I started Effexor to combat carbohydrate cravings (which worked only minimally) but the mood-lifting properties took a lot of stress away. Once you're on them though, you cannot just quit cold turkey. Even though they are non-addicitive, you have to taper off of them gradually. When switching from Effexor to Welbutrin, I had debilitating bouts of dizziness for nearly 2 weeks. This was coming off of a very low dose, 75mg/day. Those on the more common dose of 150-300mg/day report much more severe withdrawal effects. Your mileage may vary. God bless! Zixar

I'm sure Sudo can explain this much better than I, but the benefits of dental health cannot be underestimated. I've been fortunate with my teeth, save for 4 fillings and a crown. Oh, and losing the wisdom teeth, too. So this story is actually about our cat, Sunny. She rules the roost at our house, even though she was the smallest, physically. Sunny was losing weight and had problems with almost daily vomiting, which the vet could find no good cause for. No food allergies, no GI blockage. It was just put down as a finicky stomach, but Sunny was getting down to skin and bones. Turns out it was her TEETH that were the problem. She had so much tartar build up that it was causing great pain to her gums whenever she chewed anything. So, she was swallowing her food whole and naturally vomiting it back up. The vet anesthetized her and gave her a thorough dental cleaning, and voila'--problem cured. Sunny went from a sickly 9 lbs. to a healthy 12 lbs. in 3 months. Anybody who has ever cracked a tooth or otherwise had a dental nerve exposed knows how mind-shatteringly painful it can be. Sodium fluoride and dental amalgams have minimal risk for a huge quality-of-life boost. Our bodies have remarkable tolerance to seemingly-nasty environmental pollutants. Last year, the doctors shot poisonous, radioactive thallium-201 into my veins to do a heart test, but I suffered no ill effects. Every atom of thallium-201 decayed within a few days...into an atom of mercury-201. God bless! Zix

Eagle: If you can, try to resize the picture down to around 400x300 or so. It might be small enough to attach then.

Naaah, hit don't look like y'all cotton to book larnin' round hyah. I haveta see if that thar Publisher's Clearing House'll switch out mah subskritchin to Sinetiffic 'Merkin fer the Weekly World News.

Cathy: Glad we have that sorted out, then! Actually, this is an excellent (and fortunately, ultimately benign) example of why we have to be careful of online interactions. We each build up a picture in our minds of the individual posters we talk with, but all we have to base those pictures on is our understanding of the words they posted. One little mistake can have disastrous consequences, and 80% of the time (or more) the fault is in OUR minds, not the poster's! When we post, we each KNOW what we really mean. When we read another's posts, we're GUESSING what they really meant. If we guess wrong, we put ideas into the heads of our "pictures" that the real people may not ever espouse! Even if the post seems unambiguous to the writer, it may still be perceived in an entirely different way, unambiguously-seeming, by a reader. End result? Hard feelings and flame wars over a MISTAKE. Sometimes these mistakes can be corrected, but sometimes the misunderstanding is carried too far. We all have to make an extra effort in our online affairs to separate the real people from their 'Net personas, especially our perceptions of their personas. Guilty as anyone, Zix

Oh, come on, Cathy! That wasn't snide at all. (At least it was never intended to be!) Would a smiley have helped? Since when does my opinion carry more weight than anyone else's, anyway? The fact that *I* think this alien conspiracy stuff is B-movie material shouldn't have any bearing on those who believe it as gospel, should it? Truce? Zix

Happy Anniversary!! May God bless your lives richly on this happy occasion, as you have both blessed so many others. Hope to see you soon! Zix

If the pic is on your computer instead of somewhere on the internet, you have to make it an attachment to a post. If you scroll down below the text box where you type in a post, the 2nd blue heading area, labeled "Options", has the first check box as "Post Attachment". Click that, then type your message. When you post it, you'll get the thank-you message, then a new screen will pop up and let you browse to the file on your computer you wish to post. As long as it's smaller than 75kb, it'll get uploaded to the board. Pawtucket has to approve all attachments though, so it might take a day or so to show up. God bless! Zix

I don't think it would be possible here, as the board limits attachments to 75KB max. Unless you did some major compression (worse than AM radio), you wouldn't be able to fit much into 75k.

Well, it looks like I'm going to be there after all. I'll be sure to wear my GreaseSpot T-shirt! Looking forwards to meeting any of my fellow Spotters! God bless! Zix

And about the Dogon tribe, that was Sirius B, a white dwarf star companion to the main star, not a planet, and it doesn't take all that powerful a telescope to see it.

Well, that's nothing. I heard that this guy actually found the Ark of the Covenant in 1938, but the government took it away from him and locked it up in Warehouse 23 with the alienses from Roswell and Amelia Earhart's living brain in a jar. Same guy later found the Holy Grail, too, but dropped it down a chasm and lost it.