Raf

We were having a discussion on the LES site about cross posting. To have a meaningful conversation about it, an example was used. I was asked privately whether this was appropriate and decided that it was: no names were used, the example cited was an illustration, and the topic is entirely appropriate.

I don't recall anyone using the word "enemies" on my site. It could have. I've lost track of who has said what on which site. I know that I bristled immediately here on this site when the word "enemies" was used.

I am now posting on all three sites.

I think JAL is getting a bad rap on the "victim" line. He's not talking about whether or not anyone was victimized. He was talking about "what are you going to do from this point forward?"

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I am more aware than most of the grievous abuses laid upon many of God’s precious people when they were in The Way . Perhaps you are one who was so abused. The point is that now the choice is yours as to how you see your past involvement in The Way...

In regard to your involvement in The Way , you could choose to be a victim, but may I suggest that is not the best perspective. Frederick Douglas, a former slave and then an abolitionist in the time of the Civil War, once said, "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by those whom they oppress." I like to look at my time in The Way in a more positive sense. I want to "eat the fish and spit out the bones."

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He's not talking about the past. He's not talking about your "complicity" in being victimized. He's talking about the future, and in my opinion, what he's saying about it (as a generality, individual experiences may vary) is healthy.

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Originally posted by Cynic:

Although I do not embrace as an inerrant eschatological statement the pieces at the following URLs (I would characterize myself eschatologically as generally clueless rather than as an amillennialist), this stuff appears biblically well-grounded in its recognition that an eschatological in-breaking of the Kingdom of God was occurring in Christ's incarnation, death, resurrection and ascension, and that the Kingdom of God is now "Already" and "Not-Yet."

In what appears faithful to biblical indications, but which could incinerate the circuits of a Bullingerite's brain, these pieces maintain that there is an overlap of the present age and the age to come.

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I am deeply concerned with the CES teaching on the fallibility of Jesus' words. Either he spoke the words given him by God or not. If he did not, he spoke presumptuously, a HUGE OT no-no that in and of itself disqualifies him as Messiah. If he did speak the words given him by God, then he was right and our understanding is wrong. I am "generally clueless" about what Jesus meant in those verses. I've been wondering about it. But I would sooner eat my Bible than print an article saying I'm right and Jesus was wrong.

And by the way, Cynic, thanks to your "generally clueless" line, my respect for you just quadrupled. :)-->

Happy birthday, George.

Zeus bless you in the name of Perseus.

I don't know where to post this, but this seems as good a place as any (I've chosen two threads: mods, please forgive the cross-posting).

I set up the LES message board as a place Christians can go to with the presumption that the other posters are Christian and/or expressing Christian principles. It was never intended to be an "either/or" proposition. I do not ask or expect anyone to leave Greasespot in order to come to the LES board. Individual decisions to do one or the other are just that, individual decisions.

My individual decision is to be active on both boards.

I don't know where to post this, but this seems as good a place as any (I've chosen two threads: mods, please forgive the cross-posting).

I set up the LES message board as a place Christians can go to with the presumption that the other posters are Christian and/or expressing Christian principles. It was never intended to be an "either/or" proposition. I do not ask or expect anyone to leave Greasespot in order to come to the LES board. Individual decisions to do one or the other are just that, individual decisions.

My individual decision is to be active on both boards.

Please leave me out of this. I tried to clear up what might be a misunderstanding concerning my site. That's all.

A couple of other notes, just so that a few things are clear:

1. Mr. P is quoting comments that are addressed directly to pawtucket. One of the foundational principles of interpretation is "get 'to whom' correct." If you did not laugh at the preceding statement, I cannot help you.

2. Mr. P-Mosh is not banned from the site. No one is banned. The forum's rules specifically ask atheists and agnostics to give us our space, and I think it is kind of them to respectfully comply with that request. The fact that their compliance left them with no outlet to respond to what is said about them no doubt led Mr. P to post his comments here: appropriate since we are all members here.

3. In my itty bitty little insignificant opinion, this is not a derail (sirguess can tell me if he disagrees). The thread is addressed to Christians who want to leave GSC. Some of the people who fit that description are now registered on LES. We (I use the term broardly) are being quoted to show (accuse?) that we are not adhering to the standards expressed by sirguess in his very well-written opening post, or by the standards of our faith. I could be wrong, I could be right, but I don't think that's a derail.

4. I have a no GS-bashing rule on the LES site. However, I recognize (and I hope Paw understands) that there will be occasions of venting. In this particular case, the comments were specifically directed at Paw.

I'm going to refrain from saying anything else unless asked, but I want to be perfectly clear that I support Paw, I support GSCafe, I have not urged anyone to LEAVE here, and I expect to continue posting here until I am no longer welcome or able. Paw is the sole relevant judge of whether I am welcome, though, of course, tons and tons of factors can make me unable.

For example, badmouthing sea monkeys.

But that would be a derail.

Carry on.

This is part of what I posted over there in response to that first quote (with emphases here in bold)

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It's no secret that I got quite upset with Refiner because he said things about Greasespot posters on a board where they were not members. I don't think that's right. As a matter of principle, I think it's wrong to discuss posters who are not members of the board on which you're posting.

With the understanding of the context of the above message, and without the desire to squelch honest discussion and debate, I would ask that in the future we do not discuss posters who are not members of this board. In our forum rules, I ask them to give us (Christian posters) our space. Thus far, they have complied (and I have every reason to believe that their compliance is respectful). I'm not passing judgment on the above post. It's in a context and the context makes sense. I simply think I would be a hypocrite if I did not raise an objection to discussing posters who are not members of this site.

How do I say this without violating my own principle? I don't know, but I'll try:

I'm not at all happy with what I've read on the JWO site. But if we were to do here what we criticize them for doing there, we would be no better than the things we criticize.

The Christians are welcome here. All are welcome at Greasespot (moderated) and all are welcome at JWO (unmoderated).

Just something to think about.

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People can read the thread for themselves to see if they agree with what I said about the context of that statement. Also, I was posting as me, not as admin or moderator.

As for the second quote, I ask that everyone allow LES to be a Christian site.

There's also Christian Biblical Counsel, founded by Vince Finnegan. And a bunch of smaller ones.

Searcher, TWI is now at the stage the Jehovah's Witnesses were at in the 1920s and 30s, after Charles Russell died. At that time, the majority of people who left did so not because they no longer believed in religion, but because they disagreed with the direction taken by the organization's second president. A great number of "Ex-Watchtower Society" members at that time would very likely be participants in offshoots (many of which are still in existence).

Hmm... should he get a free cup of coffee, or should he buy a round?

Is that a threat? It's the RULES OF WAR ™ for you!

And yet, THE and the Amzing Sea Monkeys remain in the Open Forum.

Sometimes, I tell ya. :)-->

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Originally posted by searcher:

Now I have a HUGE confession to make to you Raf

I ………….erm……………

Don’t like coffee, probably because I am English, I drink LOTS of tea,

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Danged Brit interlopers.

Here. Invite a couple of friends.

Searcher,

Stick around, please.

In fact, I don't recall if you got your coffee or not, but if you did, here's another cup.

On me.

Doug,

I think I can honestly say that I know as well as anyone the similarities betweem the JW experience and the TWI experience, having been through both. When Refiner and Priscilla showed up, I was eager to welcome both of them. I am sorry that our personalities have so obvously clashed. It was truly not my desire. But sometimes that happens. I expect at some point that will be resolved.

But I, for one, do take your statement at face value and I look forward to your contributions to this site, as I look forward to Priscilla's. Not only that, but I hope I've misjudged Refiner and that our little tiff was just that: a personality clash we can both get over quickly (as I've done before with a number of folks who can testify to that).

Welcome aboard.

Oh, and you're at a cafe. It's only polite to order some coffee.

First cup's on me.

Long Gone,

Thanks for posting that. I see what you're saying. I disagree, but explaining why would require the extension of an argument I'm no longer interested in having. I'll leave it this way: I appreciate your point, but stand by my comment.

Why I Reject Feline Sports Networks

Terrific flick. Those fights were excellent, and despite the fact that you can see it coming a mile away, that scene where MJ first sees Spidey AFTER the climactic fight was still stunning.

The church I attend, Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, is HUGE. It has its own cafeteria.

When you go into that church cafeteria, it makes sense to assume that everyone else there is a Christian. You cannot make the same assumption at IHOP. Or the Greasespot Cafe.

But you can still order some good coffee here. And have some good conversation with some wonderful people.

A tiny little cult.

My site does seem to have benefitted somewhat.

But I don't encourage anyone to leave GS.

It's like this: I go to a bar. And I go to church. I don't expect people who attend the same church as me to show up at the same bar, too. And I don't expect everyone at the bar to show up at church. But anyone's free to do both.

I guess this is a coffee bar. :)-->

Of course I don't mind you looking at the articles or reading the threads. That's why they're posted.

I'll relay your message to Dot, with your permission.

Sorry. I have a large monitor. Didn't occur to me that it would bug other people.

Of course, it didn't occur to me that a thread whose reason for existence was a computer burp would still be running four years later!

Actually, I think Herbert Armstrong taught the British-Israel thing. Ever read The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy? Makes the 13th Tribe look like the Torah.