David Anderson

Hello Kit. The easiest way to make distilled water is to go to Sears and buy a Kenmore Water Purifier. They cost $130-$150. Actually the term "water purifier", while technically correct, is easily confused with lots of porducts that are no more than water filters. The Kenmore actually is a distiller and is about the size of many coffee pots that sit on the kitchen counter. It makes a little less than a gallon a batch and runs off regular house current. A batch takes 4-6 hours to make and so will make enough in 24 hours to fill a corny keg. It's a perfect solution for use in winter time since the heat generated goes into the room and basically one gets the distilled water for nothing since he has to heat the room anyway. So all one has to do is fill the first container with tap water, push the button, and come back four hours later to empty the second container that is filled with distilled water. The unit shuts off automatically when all the water is boiled out of the first container. Of course there are a million different ways to boil water and condense it, but the Sears unit is the cheepest solution I know of. The interesting thing to me after I got mine was when reading the instruction booklet it said that if the water didn't taste good to shake it up a little and get some air in it. At the time I thought, "Why Sears knows that oxygen in water makes it taste better!" Too bad they didn't take the next step and tell folks to saturate it with oxygen and then it will taste better than any other water on the planet. Anyway, I don't own any stock in Sears either, in fact I don't particularly like them. But it is a relatively inexpensive, no hastle way to make distilled water. In fact, if a person had one of those oxygen generators that people on oxygen use in their homes, he probably could get close to 70 ppm oxygenated water by just sticking the tube into the distilled water carafe after it was put in the refrigerator a while to cool down to almost freezing. The trick would be to get the tube from the oxygen generator into the refrigerator or else just put ice cubes of distilled water in the carafe and let it bubble for an hour or so with the lid closed to prevent nitrogen from getting back in. As they say, where there's a will there's a way. Learning enough to become convinced that this is a powerful, simple solution to lots of problems is the only way I know of to develope that will so as to make drinking oxygenated water a habitual process for the rest of ones life. Sure beats health insurance, hospital bills, pills, and an early death.

Hello Kit. I've noticed myself that my tolerance for cold has increased since drinking the water. My working theory on why this is so is as follows. As we age everything in our bodies becomes less efficient. The oxygen partial pressure in the blood stream is 90% of max when we are 20, 80% of max by the time we're 40, 70% of max by the time we're 50-60, and 60% of max when we're 70. That means that our normal metabolism follows the same road down since the objective of breathing is to get oxygen to the mitochondria, or "Power Plant", within each cell. The less oxygen delivered, the less food that is metabolized. As the oxygen delivery trucks suffer more and more roadblocks on the way to the Power Plant, the Power Plant is forced to keep cutting back the number of boilers and turbines in operation and consequently the city that depends on it suffers brown-outs from time to time, with all the attendant damage brown-outs cause. These happen more and more frequently until finally there is a blackout, the Power Plant is shut down and the city dies. So we do our best to prevent brown-outs by eating right, exercising, maintaining a happy outlook, smiling instead of frowning (which takes far less muscles to do), study and apply the Word of God, and so to a certain extent slow the aging process down. But because the metabolism process isn't what it used to be, even if we eat the same things, they don't get burned as well in those boilers and so we gain weight- which requires more energy just to carry it around. So we tire more easily, don't breathe as well, and the brown-outs increase in frequency. But lets say we add to the water we drink all the oxygen it will carry. It's like carrying it to the cells in a C5 Cargo plane! It avoids all the roadblocks, traffic jams, etc. and gets right to the Power Plants. But it's jet fuel instead of mere fuel oil or coal, or I should say pure oxygen rather than air. All those little brown-outs start going away, there is plenty of light in the city, people in it are happy again, have more energy, and as everyone knows who ever built a steam power plant, the heat thrown away in the process of running it keeps the body warmer for longer. And so one feels like he's thirty rather than sixty when out in the snow. (Well, maybe forty or fifty instead of thirty!) I heard today on the news that the recent Tsunami will require six months of food to be supplied by the rest of the world for two million people before their lives can get back to some semblence of normality. One C5 Transport won't do the job. So it is with drinking highly oxygenated water. Those that are twenty, in good shape, and fit as a fiddle probably don't need it. But then again maybe they could well use it anyway- in case of emergency. But if any are not feeling like they're twenty, developing the habit of drinking a third of a gallon a day of the stuff, will insure that the C5 transports keep arriving systematically to all those Power Plants huffing and puffing around the body. Anyway, that's my take on the matter.

Hello Oldiesman. My experience was different than Krys's because I've enjoyed good health my entire life and also am not very self-observant. As mentioned somewhere above, I noticed the following morning, after drinking a glass or two the previous day, that my urine was colorless, something that probably hasn't happened since i took Grace Bliss's class "Lessons in Living" back in the 60's. I made the water primarily because of my cousin Russ, who'd had lymphatic leukemia for five or more years and had fainted and collapsed to the floor on his way back from the water fountain at the Cleveland Clinic while we were waiting for him to be called for chemotherapy. And so I made it for him but drank it myself in sympathy for him- sort of a laying on of hands kind of thing from a distance. And so, when I discovered my urine was clear I called him to see if he'd noticed anything after drinking the water. He said his urine was colorless and added that it had been a dark brown due to all the pills he was taking and the chemotherapy. That told me there was indeed something happening but I didn't know what. Most of what I've posted on this thread I've learned since that time. All I really knew was that it was the best tasting water I'd ever consumed. That was in June, 2003. That summer I drank a lot of it because I was working outside building a walkway along the river here. It seemed that i had lots more energy, but I couldn't prove it. It was maybe September or October before I noticed that all those joint aches in knees, hips, shoulders and elbows that come with being 60 years old were gone and I could turn my head to a significantly greater degree as well. But the thing that got my attention the most was discovering that my cigarette consumption had gone down from three packs a day to one pack a day. That made the water a personal profit center, what with the high cost of cigarettes these days! So now that I've been drinking the water for a year and a half, I can truthfully say that I'm stronger than I've been in perhaps 15 years or more, many of the liver spots on my arms have either gone completely or else faded in color dramatically, my fingernails are almost smoothe again (they were like minature washboards before), I'm much less forgetful, and drinking a glass of it while waiting for the coffee to brew in the morning has me firing on all cylinders before the coffee is finished. And above all else, to go along with various doctors telling me that there was no known medical downside to drinking it, I now have a year and a half of personal evidence that there is no downside to drinking it period. That's a long way from the first batch I made, and drank a glass before taking it over to Russ, figuring there was a possibility it might kill me, even if very slight. So with all upside and no downside, it's a no-brainer to me. I'd recommend it to anybody, anywhere, at any time. Hope this helps.

Hey Krys, I listen to every word you say, and weigh, evaluate, ponder, consider it- and am thankful for all of them. I just lack the ability to comment on everything here, much as I'd like to. For example, Galyn's problem with confusing data on atm or ATA I thought I had an answer for as I figured maybe ATA was "apparent" atmospheres. But it seems it also means atmospheres absolute. Oops, another good idea that went bust. I don't think I've ever come across a designation of "atmospheres guage" so don't know how to answer that yet. But I just had to tell you that part of the "black box" trick is to be able to shrink and expand the black boxes and so I've gotten down to the mitochondria, the cells "Power Plant" in the cytoplasm, but not into the neucleous yet. I don't have the foggiest notion about that, other than that the carrier of energy to it must be ATP, produced by the mitochondria, as I would be surprised if it used oxygen directly. On the other hand, I've expanded the box to include the universe and find amazing resemblence between how things work on a light year scale and an angstrom scale. I never was able to get God in the box that some claim to have Him in, but then I'm just a servant of His, not his master. Far be it from me to try to put Him in a box! Anyway, I'm currently stuck on the black box surrounding myoglobin and trying to get a picture of how much of each muscle and heart cell is myoglobin. Seems that myoglobin is the first protein to have it's structure figured out forty or so years ago, but it's surprizing how little i've been able to find out about myoglobin research on the internet. I'd like to assume it was 70% of the weight of a muscle cell like hemoglobin is in red blood cells because that would imply a far larger oxygen storage capacity in the body than is commonly supposed. It would also explain why people that are fit have less health problems than those who aren't since the ratio of muscle mass to body weight would be higher. Oxygen storage capacity would have far reaching implications as regards muscle exercise before hitting the anaerobic threshhold (ie. the race horse that hits that threshhold last wins!) Not that many horse trainers would listen to me, but then I hold out hope that one day I'll have my own race horse and whip them all in races and take all their money! Anyway, in the process of trying to find out about myoglobin it was suggested that it's major role is to help transport oxygen from the cell wall to the mitochondria- as if mere diffusion down the pressure gradient wasn't sufficient. But it seems that oxygen, like carbon dioxide, is mildly hydrophobic and so goes through cell walls easily (doesn't need aquaporin like water does, or active transport like most everything else does) to get into a cell. So I rather expect that the latest research is just more smoke and mirrors by the medical profession to belittle the role of oxygen since they can't make any money on it. I mean, how are they going to make money by simply telling folks how to breathe properly or to drink highly oxygenated water? As for me "discovering" this great and simple thing, it has been a great discovery to me, but I doubt I'll ever make it into the history books as the discoveror, for surely there have been many before me that already knew what I've recently learned. I always laugh when I read about Mr X discovering something in England or whereever and Mr Y discovering it "independently" in Russia or somewhere else. Seems to me that good news travels just as fast as bad news, contrary to what The Man in Black sang. It's just that it travels in totally different circles and the bad news folks have all the money and control all the media and so can convince far more people that bad news is worthy of attention and good news is not! "Here, look at me, I'm bad news!"- and we're not even talking about the Really Good News of a man named Jesus raising from the dead because there was no sin in him. Then there are the old prospectors that found the Mother Lode and covered it right back up and headed down the trail with their burro for fear they'd be killed or that exploiting such a find might change their whole lifestyle. No doubt there have been many of those since gold first got people's attention and interest. Fact is that this "find" is so low grade to those in commerce that it hardly merits mention. If it gets shut down it will be because millions of noncommerce people have read about it and the drug companies and medical profession are beginning to feel the pain. Anyway, I'm glad to hear you had such an immediate benifit from drinking Penta Water. Best wishes, Dave

You and I are on the same page, David, just in different paragraphs! Hello Krys. I'd like to believe that, but which page are we on anyway. The other day I printed out the entire thread so I could try to see what I'd forgotten to answer or stated wrongly. To my amazement my printer gobbled up 70 pages to do the job while this thread says it's only five pages long! You are right, there was a lot of stuff going on when we were in high school. Warburg got the Nobel Prize for showing the central role of oxygen (or more precisely the lack of it) in cancer formation and I think only a few years later the structure of DNA was worked out as well as the structure of the myoglobin molecule. During that time they were using hyperbarics on premature babies and although I don't know to what pressures or in what kind of chambers that were put, the bad rap on hyperbarics causing retenal failure set back the field of hyperbarics maybe thirty years- until someone showed it wasn't the pressure causing the problem but the rate of change of the pressure, and that reintroducing the pressure and then more slowly causing it to drop showed the damage was reversable. (and every engineer loves reversable things!) I think the same thing applies to damage to the nervous system- it's reversable if the pressure is taken off slower. But just because lots of work has been done since the 50's doesn't mean that folks are one wit smarter than they were then. We may have discovered new and novel devices but the over-all education level has actually decreased, not increased- at least in Cleveland, Ohio it has! By the way, I also disagree with the concept that great inventions are started by technicians and then given form by scientists, or a comment something like that. It reminded me of a conversation I had with the chairman of the chemistry department at Wright State years ago. He was a polymer chemist and admitted that most significant discoveries were because someone threw the wrong ingredients into a vat and totally ruined the batch. But while looking at the mess they'd made they noticed some interesting properties of the mess. And so polymers were discovered. But the professor then added that after lots of new and novel devices were made using polymers, finally a university research department would get funded so they could find out HOW polymers worked- and thereby expand the usefulness (and profitableness) of them. Teflon was like that. A recent graduate in chemical engineering, working for DuPont back in the 30's, hooked up a new bottle of some liquid under pressure that he needed for the tests he was doing. But nothing came out of the bottle. Normally one would just get another bottle to replace it. But it bothered him and so he cut the bottle in half (at the risk of it exploding in his face) and found the slippriest solid known to man- later to be called Teflon. Anyway, what this all has to do with highly oxygenated water is that some doctor in Germany thirty years ago thought to add oxygen to water and do a test with his cancer patients (he evidently was a cancer surgeon). Within six minutes of giving the test group the water (Pakdaman's Water- distilled water with 50 ppm oxygen in it) their plasma oxygen partial pressure went from 20 to 30 mmHg, and stayed there for at least an hour. When the test was done he reported that all in the test group improved and all in the control group continued to deteriorate as expected. And so he wondered why everybody didn't drink distilled, then oxygenated, water and concluded that it was either too costly to make commercially or too difficult to sell. If I'm not mistaken, he dealt with the gastro-intestinal tract, which goes right along with your comments about the friendly bacteria getting healthy rather than all the anaerobic bacteria having a field day on the road to producing cancers. Actually, those of you that remember Grace Bliss will recall her position that all disease starts from an impacted colon. My experience with drinking Pneuma Water is that it "unimpacts" the colon- not by causing dysentery but merely by loosening up the stool somewhat. If Grace was right, or even close to being right, that is recomendation enough to drink highly oxygenated water. Sure beats coffee enemas and the like. By the way, if thee are any of you who would like to make highly oxygenated water yourself but don't trust your own skills in doing so or lack the stuff needed, I have a half dozen extra corny kegs to sell and can get the rest of the stuff needed and send it all to you so that all you need is an oxygen bottle from your local welding supply store and a crescent wrench. I should add that I can't do it for nothing, but if you will tell me what you think you can afford or you think it's worth in potential benifit, I think you'll find that I'm not hard to get along with. I know the scripture that says we are to work with our hands the thing that is good so we may have to give to him that needeth, but this is not a paying job that I'm in these days so I have no money to give- or things that cost money to buy either! Information is freely given but "stuff" costs money. My email is anders@en.com.

Hello Krys. I sure wish everyone thought like an engineer because maybe then I'd be able to talk to them. I'm a firm believer in "See it Big, Keep it Simple" and have all too much experience with those who see it small and then complicate the hell out of what little they see. For example, engineers use a "black box" to solve lots of problems. In other words, they draw a box around what they are investigating and begin by admitting that they know nothing about what is inside the box. It's irrelivant to the problem at hand. They then look at what goes into the box and what comes out of the box rather than the myriad of things that are possible inside the box. It's simple, but I assure you it is not simplistic. It's usually those who are investigating very small parts inside the box that call the method simplistic. So I began my investigation by not giving a damn about people, due to the hell I went through over the past 14 years trying to defend the right to liberty of an 81 year old woman. All I got from people was excuses why they couldn't help, wouldn't help, didn't care- or thought the concept was simplistic (ie. 81 years old women aught to die so that others could take their money and their space). So I took up horses as much more interesting than people and far more thankful when you did them a favor. Simple solution but not simplistic at all. And it has led to some profound, yet simple discoveries- like the value of highly oxygenated water to one's health. All it takes to understand is maybe a high school chemistry and physics course, although I've tried to make the subject even simpler than that- for we all understand that we need oxygen and water to live as well as food. And food is the least of these, not the greatest- at least we can live far longer without food than we can without oxygen or water. My guess is that there are a million studies done on food (and drugs as a subset of food) for every one study done on water and/or oxygen. And we now must suffer through advertisements for pills to a greater extent than we used to suffer through ads for coke and Pepsi on the tv. So please excuse me for daring to have contempt for them all, and to think poorly of comments that would dismiss the subject of oxygen and water as "simplistic", worthy only of "private topic" status, or more lethal yet, those who would say "You'll only burp" or "it's as silly as anything I've come across"- as the medical doctor wrote about Millenium Coolers above. Fact is that someone could discover a pill that contained the fountain of youth in it and still very few would take it- until everyone else did first that is. Then they would merely lie and tell everybody they'd been taking it for years. So let's talk about a race horse for a minute. There "blood" volume is 72 cc per kilogram of weight. If they are very fit, this can go up to 100 cc per kilogram of weight, as they grow more capillaries as well as more muscle mass. That's a fact that speaks loudly to an engineer like me. It means that by proper exercise one can increase the size of the circulatory system in the horse's body from 7.2% to 10% of his body size, or(2.8/7.2= .389) almost a 40% increase in "horse" (assuming the circulatory system is a measure of how much horse one has at the beginning of the day- ie. how much work he can do). That fact doesn't say a thing about how much hemoglobin is in the circulatory system, how much oxygen is in the plasma, how healthy the red blood cells are that make up about 18% of the "Blood", or how healthy the hemoglobin molecules are inside the red blood cells. They are all things inside the "black box" called the circulatory system. The whole system increases by 40%. So an engineer would say that if you put in exercise of the correct amount and at the correct rate, to the black box, out will come increased speed and increased endurance- ie, the amount of work the black box can do will increase. It increase in the circulatory system is an aside- even if a remarkable one! But let's look a little into the black box called the circulatory system. Let's say it comprises 7.2% of the normal human body as it does the normal horses body. Inside that black box one finds that 82% of it is water, leaving the rest to swim in the water and comprise only 18% of it, or 1.3% of the total body weight (7.2 x .18 = 1.296). Further, evidently the maximum amount of hemoglobin in a red blood cell is 70% of it's mass. So we're left with hemoglobin comprising only a fraction of one percent of the body's weight (.9% if one excludes the white blood cells, platlets, and other solids in the blood stream and figures it's all red blood cells). Yet everybody knows all about hemoglobin and nothing at all about water. (actually, the average person also knows nothing about hemoglobin, but thinks he does because he's heard the word used lots of times in place of "blood" and thinks they are synonomous.) And this is what I pressume you are talking about when you say that the "blood" carrying less than 90% of the oxygen it should is a problem. You're talking about hemoglobin saturation, not total "blood" capacity. The medical profession would have us believe that the amount of oxygen carried in the plasma is insignificant and only that carried by the hemoglobin in red blood cells is significant. But that is because they are too lazy to calculate out how much water there is in the body, or in the blood stream, let alone want to maximize the oxygen in it! Hell, they'd lose business and their "profit center" if they focused on good health rather than on quick fixes and come-back-in-two-weeks methodology. So they take an artificial measurement by clipping on a clothes-pin-like divice to a finger, then measuring the relative concentration of light waves going through the finger, see that converted to another artificial number, SaO2, on the read-out, and then tell us that since it is over 90% that oxygen is not our problem. Talk about simplistic!!! The measurement doesn't tell how many red blood cells are alive and well in the blood stream, it doesn't tell how much hemoglobin is inside each red blood cell, it doesn't tell whether those hemoglobin molecules are alive or dead as a door nail. In short, it is a quick demonstration that they "care", when, in fact, most don't care at all- no more than most lawyers care, most politicians care, most preachers care or most businessmen care about you or me. They care about money, and to most folks money is the measure of all things. A very bad measurement in my view- in fact it will kill you if you're not careful! And so, the body is 60% water and less than 1% hemoglobin, and every oxygen molecule carried by hemoglobin has to get dumped off into water (the plasma) before it can do any good. I tried to show in a previous post how drinking oxygen saturated water gets oxygen right next to the cells of the body without having to suffer the pressure loss inherent in the circulatory system. It goes right into the start of the lymph system (called Chyle) at the small intestine- and the lymph system is twice the size of the circulatory system! Hemoglobin can only deliver it back into the plasma at a pressure of 39 millimeters of Mercury. And it must then get through the capillary wall before it can get into the intersticial fluid (the lymph system). Oxygen saturated water can get it beyond the capillary system and right into the intersticial water, and get it there at close to 760 millimeters of Mercury (assuming the person isn't so low on overall oxygen that it all gets consumed by the teeth, gums, etc. on it's way down to the small intestine.) So, to use a baseball analogy, hemoglobin lays down lots of bunts and some of them might even get the oxygen to first base. The oxygen in oxygen saturated water is a home run. Most of the ten trillion cells in the body are happy with a lot of bunts, but those that are sick need a home run to make them happy again. A few home runs and they're ready to be happy with bunts again! Without the home runs they're dead in the water! Then there's the take-out-the-trash guys (the immune system- 90% of which are evidently located right around the small intestines) and they aren't really up to their full strength at running or weightlifting unless the oxygen partial pressure in the lymph is up to 50-80 mm Hg- beyond what hemoglobin itself can deliver. So you can either eat lots of fruits or juices (provided they're not homoginized and therefore devoid of any oxygen) or you can drink highly oxygenated water. The latter is much less taxing on the wallet. And, if one developes the habit of drinking highly oxygenated water as a daily routine, he's likely to not even notice the trash being taken out, let alone lie in bed because of it- when the muscles are too weak to do any good due to the immune system demanding all the oxygen just to take out the huge volume of trash that caught up to all those 90 pound weaklings lazing around and calling themselves trash collectors. All of a sudden they are huffing and puffing and stealing the muscles oxygen just to take out the trash. Why, with all the pill stuff around that claims to "improve the immune system" one would think the medical profession would pay a little more attention to the lymph system. In the US they evidently don't although in Europe they evidently do. And, it's Mister Simplistic to you! (just kidding).

"I also know that there are time when there is too much oxygen and it acts like a poison because it causes damage...i.e. premature infants....if they are too young in gestational age, and require too much oxygen via their lungs (which cannot yet efficiently obtain it for curculation)...they are prone to blindness." Hello again Krys. I think the above was the common reason given since the fifties by some in the scientific community to justify discarding the use of hyperbaric chambers- or at least severely limit their use out of fear that untold damage could occur by it's use. But evidently the problem was the rate of decompression (like the bends) and subsequently the hyperbaric people found that if the premature baby was placed back in a hyperbaric chamber, pressurized and then depressurized slowly, that the blindness was reversable. I forget now exactly where I read that, but it was a result of punching in "hyperbaric physiology" into my search engine- and is how I found that Dr. Philip James, in England, is one of the principal players in the hyperbaric game. He's the one I wrote to that said oxygenated water could cause no negative physiological effects. (or rather, there were no known negatives to drinking it). I also found it interesting that he was on (or chaired) the UN Commission on Obesity which I found interesting since it brought to mind that their might be a relationship between this huge worldwide problem and a lack of oxygen in drinking water around the world. Thanks for the BOD explaination. I take it then that BOD is basically the difference in the rate at which oxygen from the air is added to bodies of water and the rate at which it is used by the cridders in the water. In other words, if the Great Lakes (which contain one fifth of all the fresh water in the world) were composed only of distilled water, the Biological Oxygen Demand would be zero, regardless of the temperature of the water. As an aside, dissolved oxygen meters commonly go up to only 20 parts per million. One of the companies that makes them, OxyGuard, has a portable one that now goes up to 50 ppm and their web site says that the sales of them have gone up dramatically in recent years due to the interest in oxygenated drinking water. As of a year or so ago they cost $700 new, but that might now be much higher since the Euro has gone up 60% relative to the dollar- thanks to Greenie and Bush and all their associates. They are to the economic world what the AMA is to the health world- sometimes inflation is the problem and then they say they need to inflate the money supply to solve the problem. How can one thing, inflation, be both the problem and the solution ? When I was visiting Rich in the hospital, the doctor said that oxygen was not his problem- but he was laying in bed with an oxygen tube up his nose at the time and so the doctors words were belied by his actions. Anyway, I know about oxyguard because the guy I flew out to see in Portland in November, 2003 (he wanted to set up a company to make oxygenated water for horses) welshed on his promise to give me his Oxyguard so that I could do further testing, in exchange for flying out and showing him how to simply and economically make highly oxygenated water. Since I didn't have the $700 to just go buy one, I made my own, and in the process met the North American Sales Manager for Sensorex, the company that makes most of the probes for all the d.o. meters around the world. (a $125 probe and a $3 multimeter does roughly the same thing as a fancy d.o. meter) He told me the reason that most meters go up only to 20 ppm is because fish hatcheries oxygenated water to 20 ppm prior to shipping fish from hatcheries to the lakes or rivers where they are places. They do this to prevent the fish from dying of shock when introduced to a new habitat. So at least the fish people know that adding oxygen to water is a good thing and not a bad thing. But I doubt that a fish hatchery is going to fund an AMA approved double blind, placibo, cross-over study to prove it, complete with p numbers so that everyone can know how good their guess of a guess of a guess is. (or their estimate that the probability of their assumption being true is). When all is said and done, the AMA and the National Institute of Health deal in no more than antidotal evidence- it just costs millions of dollars to get their evidence. I have also yet to find anything on the internet that specifically deals with oxygen being a poison. Molecular oxygen gets confused with "oxygen free radicals", "reactive oxygen speces", and all kinds of innuendo. But it is not ozone, it is not hydrogen peroxide- which do form free radicals, it is not a free radical at all. Seems amazing to me that something that the body needs every minute of the day could also be considered a poison. But then I heard of a person years ago that killed herself drinking too much water. She'd evidently heard that drinking lots of water was good and so she literally drowned herself drinking too much water. Surely that was much more than the three pounds a day (about a third of a gallon) the average person needs. Best wishes, Dave

Ah, back at my favorite mom and pop resataurant these days. Looks like the conversation here has been quite lively as 2004 ran out of gas (and oxygen). Since it's Sunday morning I'm reminded that I'm suposed to minister grace to the hearers (something I'm accused of not doing most of the time). So, to put the matter of oxygenated water in perspective, "it's not that which goeth into the mouth that defiles a man but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defiles a man", "a merry heart works like a medicine", "be not weary in well doing", "the Word of God is life to those who find it and health to all their flesh", "out of their bellies shall flow rivers of living waters", "knowledge puffs up but love builds up" and such come to mind and deflate my natural arrogance. In a lot of respects, coming across the matter of oxygen in water is like coming across PFAL back in 1964-65 (whenever it was that my cousin John wanted to marry one of VP's daughters and found he had to take his class before he could get his approval!) In the former case, it took the best part of two years from the time I first heard about PFAL until I actually sat through it the first time- and a trip through a windshield at 70 miles an hour (the car stopped I didn't) probably helped get my attention along the way. In the latter case, seeing my best friend (and cousin, and godfather, and mom's best friend) collapse from lack of oxygen put the study and practice of adding oxygen to water on the front burner of my life. In both cases, after due dilligence to investigate and apply what I'd learned, I figured everybody in the world would want to know this information- especially everyone I knew- and use it in their lives. Oops, I sure was wrong about that! In the first case, I got a room at my former high school and soon had twenty of my high school and church friends say they would show up to take the class. When only four showed up I was so angry I couldn't help those present for anger at all the "goats" that didn't show up- a valuable lesson for me to learn how to handle (I'm still trying to learn that lesson), but very tough on those who "in good faith" showed up to learn something. It seems that not much has changed in the intervening forty years, except that I know quite a bit more than I did then of the nefarious ways and means used to hide a good thing- usually it boils down to the opponents having lots more money than I do and having a vested interest in protecting their power base against encroachment by the potential of lots of folks not buying their products any more. Nothing new under the sun. My experience over the years I was involved with twi, was that 9 out of 10 who took PFAL were never heard from again. Sure wish I had a crystal ball and could see how the information helped them over the last thirty years or so. I'm thinking they fared better than those who hopped on the band wagon and helped turn twi into a monster. The reason I say that is because this was VPW's stated purpose. ie, "I don't want to control peoples lives or own property, I just think people should know what the word of God says so they can decide if they believe it or not." Those that took PFAL and headed down the road without looking back comply with that purpose to a tee. We all know what happened to those who stayed on, and on, and on. Anyway, it's just been a month since I started this thread and I have no idea how many, if any, people actually made some oxygenated water for themselves and satisfied themselves it was a good thing to do on a continuing basis- like reading the Bible. Sure would be nice to see some confirmation that it actually was a good thing in practice. So, since it is Sunday morning, maybe it's testimony time. I started making and drinking "Pneuma Water" in June, 2003. That was before it was even given a name, just water saturated with oxygen as close to freezing as I could get it. I've mentioned the urine turning colorless, but other than that I didn't investigate how it might have helped me. I haven't needed to see a doctor my entire life except for broken bones, cuts and the like. I only drank the water in support of cousin Russ (under the nebulous assumption that if I drank it regularly he would as well.) As summer went buy I drank a lot of it because I shoveled dirt and hauled it for a walkway we were making along the river bank here all summer long. I called it "working out at Ernie's gym". To me there is nothing in the world that tastes better than cold, highly oxygenated water- and I'd never been a water drinker in my life except when there was no coke or coffee around to drink. By August or September I noticed one day while driving that I could turn my neck much farther than before, as one intersection at which I stopped frequently (that came into a road at a 45 degree angle) had previously required me to turn the car so as to increase the angle before making a right hand turn. Otherwise it was difficult for me to see the oncoming traffic. I'd forgotten to turn the car toward the center and marvelled that I could see the oncoming traffic without having done so. By October it dawned on me that my cigarette stash was lasting far longer than normal (I get them from an Indian Reservation) and so discovered that whereas I'd smoked about three packs a day most of my adult life, I was down to one pack a day on average- and all without giving it a single thought or the slightest effort. I say that because I'm one of those recalcitrant smokers that is as likely to point out that many of the doo-gooders that warned me about dying of cancer over the past 50 years are now dead and I'm not, as I am to being kind to them. But, it was a major discovery for me none-the-less, since the savings in cigarette expendatures more than offset the cost of oxygen for my oxygen bottle and the cost of distilling water- a bonifide profit center! Sometime last winter I went over to a friends house that I hadn't seen in a year and after discussing oxygenated water he commented that all the liver spots on my forehead were gone. I'm not a very vain person (closer to a slob as far as personal appearance is concerned), and so was interested in his observation. When I got home and looked at my wrists and arms, sure enough many of the same kind of liver spots had either faded or vanished entirely. It impressed me because I'd listened to "Dead Doctor's Don't Lie" and learned that some 70 or more minerals were needed by the body and one or more of them, if missing in the diet, cause liver spots- inside and outside the body. Hmmm, I thought, if that is true then the systematic use of oxygenated water must help the body recover these minerals for reuse rather than dumping them out with the trash and the deficeit showing up as liver spots as we age. I also noticed that my finger nails and toe nails, that had become like very rough wash boards (or riffles to any who might be inclined to panning gold), had smoothed out significantly- almost now to the point that I have to look hard to see them and can hardly feel them at all. Also, they are far less brittle as are my teeth. So it's sort of like miracles, that one sees looking back over one's shoulder and never sees any looking straight ahead. I've probably forgotten the most dramatic effects on my life because the biggest miracles are usually the last seen even when one is looking for them. All I really know is that I feel better, and stronger, and more alert, and less tired, than I have in years, and I take no pills- vitimins or otherwise, have no restricted diet (other than what the lack of money imposes on me) and still smoke. Oops, I monopolized all the testimony time this morning! Sure hope some that have read this thread are willing to show up and tell us they've actually made some and are drinking it on a regular basis. If so, a month is probably to short a time to see much difference, but who knows.

Hello Todd and Galen. Todd, your experience of being able to breath in 3 minute cycles amazes me. Sure wish I would have known how to do that when I was a kid. I would have won every one of our Hold Your Breath contests! I haven't seen the Matrix and so don't know what the red pill is. I suspect it's a bad thing rather than a good thing and so it's probably good that I didn't know about a 3 minute breathing cycle when I was a kid or i'd be dead. Galen, I think the problem is the same one I had early on in college. When doing exam problems I'd forget that I had to use absolute pressures and temperatures rather than gauge pressures and Farenheit or Centigrade temperatures, and so got more than one problem wrong on account of it. So when I read 1 ATA I assume it means one atmosphere absolute. But the authors could well have confused absolute pressure with gauge pressure. Not saying they did, but it's one possibility. For example, a tire pressure gauge (Borden tube type) reads zero when sitting on the work bench. That's zero gauge pressure. But it is actually measuring one atmosphere of pressure or 14.7 psia (pounds per square inch absolute) because that's the pressure of the atmosphere. So zero psig = 14.7 psia = 1 ATA (atmosphere absolute). I don't know as i've seen a designation in hyperbaric literature of ATG (for atmosphere guage) and so suspect that it's a serious confusion issue with lots of folks. So let's take my tire gauge example a little further. The gauge reads zero sitting on the bench because it is calibrated to read zero when the outside pressure pushing on the coiled tube (the guts of the guage- the Borden tube) is the same as the inside pressure of the tube. You then put the gauge on the tire and now the inside pressure is the same as the pressure inside the tire instead of the same as atmospheric pressure. Let's say it reads 32 psi. That's 32 psi greater than the pressure outside the gauge and the tire, which, if at sea level, will be 14.7 psia. So the absolute pressure of the air in the tire is 32 +14.7 =46.7 psia. To prove it, just put the tire and gage into a Saturn Rocket and read the gauge when it is miles above the earth, where the atmospheric pressure is zero. It will read 46.7 and not 32 (zero pressure outside the tube and 32 psi plus 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure on the inside- the number of gas molecules didn't change inside the tire. Likewise, if you take the tire, with gauge attached, and submerse it in water to a depth of about 34 feet, now the guage will read 32 - 14.7 = 17.3 psig because you are one atmospheres worth of pressure above that which exists at sea level. A 34 foot column of water is now pressing down on you, the tire and the outside of the gauge, in addition to the pressure of the atmosphere, but the number of molecules inside the tire and gauge hasn't changed. And so the pressure on the outside of the gauge is 14.7 psi higher than it was at sea level and so the hollow coil that straightens as the pressure inside the coil increases, will now want to coil up again due to the increased pressure outside of it. If you were to take the tire and gauge down to about 80 feet deep in water, the gauge will read zero and after that you'll ruin the gauge because it will start to collapse. But I'm talking about simple gauges that are commonly found on boilers or pressure cookers, or oxygen tanks- round dial ones, not the myriad of other types that work on a different principle. Anyway, hope that wasn't clear as mud! But a second possibility is that 100% oxygen isn't generally used in hyperbaric chambers. Evidently the lungs have a specialized tissue in them not found elsewhere in the body and pure oxygen can do damage to them if exposed to it for 24 hours straight (or maybe 12 hours straight- depending on who you read). I assume medical grade oxygen is only 95% oxygen and 5% water for this very reason. (and therefore they can charge much more money for it and it generally requires a doctors prescription- same oxygen, different packaging and marketing). So this problem is solved by using an oxygen generator rather than a welding grade oxygen bottle for the portable home chambers that are on the market these days. These chambers only go up to 4 psig or .27 atmospheres guage (1.27 atmospheres absolute) and are pressurized using air from the room so that the person in the chamber has air around him but oxygen going up his nose. The oxygen generator only produces 90% oxygen, although I'm told they can go up to 95% oxygen for the high priced models. So the tube that pressurizes the chamber comes from an oilless air compressor and a much smaller tube delivers the oxygen to the nose from the oxygen generator outside the chamber. There's another advantage to using an oxygen generator as opposed to an oxygen bottle. If an oxygen bottle is left in the room- say someone's living room, and the valve is not tightly turned off when not in use, over time the room will fill with oxygen. So far, no problem. Anybody in the room will just feel better because they are getting more oxygen. But let's say the person in the room is reading the newspaper while smoking a cigarette and some hot ash falls on the newspaper. Normally that's not a problem, just a burn hole in the newspaper. But with 100% oxygen in the room(five times the normal amount) the newspaper now says, "I'll get you, you dirty rat, for daring to burn a hole in me", and it bursts into flame in a hurry and the person panics, throws the newspaper on the floor, which also now has five times as much oxygen as normal to help it burn, and before long the house goes up in flames and everything in it, including the person reading the newspaper. That's why it's a fire hazzard. It doesn't burn itself, but it sure supports combustion. (Which is why I figure they aught to put oxygen generators on cars- except that the amount of oxygen used in a car might require an oxygen generator as big as the car and as costly. But it sure would increase gas milage and eliminate NOx gasses and carbon monoxide gasses). On the other hand, if you leave an oxygen generator on when not in use, it will merely take oxygen from the air and put it right back into the air and so there is no oxygen buildup in the room. Other than that, I have no answers for you Galen. But I'll surely keep it in mind until I have a better answer. I do know, from Dr. James at the Wolfson hyperbaric medical unit at the University of Dundee, in Stonewall, England, that hyperbaric chambers do take people up to 3 atmospheres or more absolute and can keep them alive even though they have no hemoglobin function- provided they can get the plasma oxygen level up to 30 ppm. But you bring up an excellent point about varying pressures, oxygen concentrations and time in a chamber. No doubt the navy's of the world know what is best for what set of conditions, but I am still way to much a novice to know those fine points of hyperbaric treatment. I'm still getting over the fact that FEDGOV has hid from us it's evedently effective use for stroke victims simply because they'd live longer and therefore collect social security longer. By the way, I read today that adult seals can stay under water for 30 minutes without coming up for air, and the Weddell Seal can dive in excess of 1000 feet in search of food. That's a pressure of almost 30 atmospheres. I guess Dr. Barrett, MD, the guy who thought oxygenated water was silly and figured people would have to have gills to get any good from it, didn't consider seals and like warm blooded creatures that live in water a lot. Seems that they have lots of myoglobin everywhere in their bodies and therefore can store up to 5 times as much oxygen as we can. It's myoglobin that gives red meat it's color- and red meat is muscle. I'd say there was a good chance that horses would run better if all their myoglobin sites were filled with oxygen- which probably doesn't happen without highly oxygenated water or hyperbaric "oxygen doping". It may happen in very well trained race horses but "state of the art" in that "profession" is back in the dark ages and so $500 to put a horse in a hyperbaric chamber before a race is probably a good investment. In fact, the guy I talked with in Atlanta, Lance Brubaker, figured we could make a lot of money building hyperbaric chambers for horses, provided we could get some investors to get the project off the ground. There are only a few such chambers in existance today and there are a lot of race tracks. But try to convince a horse trainer of anything. Cnances are he or she is back in the dark ages somewhere and will merely parrot Dr. Barrett's "won't work" dismissal. The Weddell Seal sure knows it works! In fact, seems that the majority of seals live were it's very cold- which means the water is maxed with oxygen. But horse trainers in general will only take maybe five or ten years to act on the information discussed here, once they figure out that horses given "oxygen doping" are winning most all the purses- at which point they'll try to convince their owners that they are the first to discover this "new" thing. One other piece of information for Krys if she's still reading. I measured the oxygen concentration of Rich and Marry Ann's water and it was as close to zero as my meter would read. In fact it was the lowest of any water I've tested. I've been meaning to read up on BOD- biological oxygen demand, that is a major number of interest to EPA. Perhaps you could amplify what it means and how the measurement is taken.

On a program called Frontline tonight there was a documentary about alternative medicine vs. the National Institute of Health and the politics of the health care industry. Seems Congress funded the NIH ten or twelve years ago to investigate alternative medicine and predictably they did little or nothing. But then they did a survey of how many people used alternative therapy of one sort or another without telling their doctors and they were amazed to find it was at least a third of the population. Oops, looks like their monopoly is going to hell in a handbasket! Anyway, it was interesting and hopefully some others that visit here can give their input. The fact remains that the average person needs three pounds of food a day, three pounds of water, and six pounds of oxygen. We can investigate foods, drugs, pills, vitimins, herbs, etc. until we are blue in the face- there are no end of them. I have nothing against them except for the impossibility of even investigating all of them, let alone trying to categorize, rank, and prioritize them. I can't tell you how many times people have come by proportedly to find out about oxygenated water when in fact they want to sell me some natural food, some juice, some schedule for coffee enemas, some dietary supliment, etc. and think that oxygenated water is just one more in a long line of stuff you'll find at your "food" store. But water is not food and oxygen is not food. They are the other two of the Big Three! Then we have the "food and drug" distinction, as if drugs are not food, when in fact they are- unknown, black box, kind of food that you take "on faith"- not faith in God but faith in your doctor. And because they've made a distinction between food and drugs, artficial as it is, they can charge outrageous prices and get away with it. 3 pounds of food, 3 pounds of water, 6 pounds of oxygen. That's what you need each day. I'll let the millions of other folks that are into foods and drugs tell you about food. It's way to complicated a subject for me. But all those foods and drugs have to react with one thing, oxygen- and they have to do so in a water solution. Just like the hundreds of grades and trade names of gasoline, there's not one food or drug that will do you any good unless it has some oxygen around to combine with and so release energy. O2 and H2O are pretty simple molecules. Food and drug molecules are hundreds and thousands of times bigger, not to mention that they come in helixes, coils, long chains, short chains, amine groups, sulfa groups, phosphate groups, acids, bases, aromatics, you name it. But by far the major constituent of them all is carbon atoms and hydrogen atoms. And so the simple reaction of hydrocarbon + oxygen yields carbon dioxide + water + energy applies. Starve that equation of oxygen and you die. Maybe you get cancer first and then die, but die you surely will. No oxygen, no life! And if you don't get rid of the water and carbon dioxide produced by that reaction you will also die. Granted that if you don't eat any food for long enough you will also die, but that is not likely for most. I can't remember when the last person was in America that was reported to have died of starvation. Most have store up enough in their bodies to not only save for a rainy day, but save for a rainly year. But outside the heart and the skelital muscles, the body has no capacity to store up significant oxygen for a rainy day- or a rainy minute. I have it on good authority that after coming out of a hyperbaric chamber a person can hold their breath for 6 minutes and can be kept alive in a hyperbaric chamber with no hemoglobin function at all. But absent a hyperbaric chamber, we're lucky if we can hold our breath for even one minute. But alas, highly oxygenated water was not one of the alternative therapies mentioned on the show tonight. Maybe they were saving the best for last and ran out of time- like preachers that never quite get to the scripture on Sunday morning.

And here we go again. This is quite a place you have here Paw. I thought by now you would surely have kicked me out for belaboring a suject that most folks don't even think exists let alone have an interest in. Far easier to dismiss it with a "you'll only burp" or maybe some comment from quackwatch.com or taking your doctors word for it that low plasma oxygen is not your problem. But I see that the viewer number keeps going up each day so apparently some folks are reading this stuff. Maybe they're all looking to catch me in a lie, but if that's so, that's a good thing too! If nothing else, their silence ratifies what i've said. Anyway, after a year and a half of being intreagued with the subject of highly oxygenated water, I have about eight notebooks full of notes on the subject that are just crying to be put into some kind of order and I don't know how to do that other than to talk about it and see if anything rings a bell with anyone other than me or it I've made any glaring errors. Along the way a good number of articles, published in medical journals, have been absorbed and it is one of the reasons why I have absolutely no doubt that most of the medical profession is filled with people who aren't scientists at all. They are merely pretenders to being objective observers of scientific laws and principles. Instead of citing Newton's laws, or Boyle's law, or Charles' law or Henry's law, or the laws governing diffusion, chemical reaction, and various energy transformation laws, they settle for double blind, cross-over tests and then use statistical analysis to "prove" their case. The trouble is that statistical analysis can never show cause and effect by it's very nature. It was invented to examine games of chance and determine the probability of winning or losing money on the flip of a coin or the roll of the dice. Ah, but along comes medicine and refines the process with "p numbers". And for those of you that don't know what p numbers are, you'll usually see them in double blind, crossover tests as p.05, etc. I ventured to object to the use of p numbers on Horsescience and, as you can imagine, I was roundly criticized for daring to object. One vet went so far as to publish a link to a site that defined p numbers as "an estimate that the probability of a hypothesis being true was correct." I replied, after looking up the link, "Yep, a guess of a guess of a guess- third order guesswork." Oh, the vets, MD's and "owner" of the site hated that one! (probably the underlying reason the "owner" had to dispatch with me sooner or later- that and, horror of horrors, I thought evolution was also mostly nonsense and had no problem with Genesis whatsoever. So these medical "researchers" give an appearance of validity to their work by, in essence, saying, "We're more than 95% sure that what we've come up with is true." If an engineer or archetect tryed to pass off a building with "I'm 95% sure this building will not explode or collapse" you can imagine what the people that put up the money to build the building would do! And yet we put pills in our mouth and swallow them merely because a doctor told us to, based on nothing other than p number pseudoscience. And the devotees of this kind of sloppiness insist that double blind, crossover tests be done on anything and everything before they will admit it has any validity at all. To them all other evidence is worthless and worthy only of contempt, including personal testimony of something good but not approved by the AMA. I'm the first to admit there are fine, knowledgable, honorable medical doctors in the world. But my guess is that they folow my ten percent rule (ie. only 10% of any given populaton is firing on all cylinders at any given time- the rest are along for the ride.) In fact, for a long time I've bemoaned having been taught by my mother that 99 out of 100 folks are decent folks. That's not my experience over the past 61 years. And so I've been constantly dissapointed. Now had she taught me that I'd be lucky to find one in a hundred that was honorable, why I would have been much more suspicious but far less dissapointed. In fact I would have been downright tickled because not only would I have found one out of a hundred, I'd have found ten! (sometimes maybe even twenty if I was really lucky! p>.05)) Anyway, the post about an oxygen molecule getting into the body and traveling around is not dependent on p numbers. It depends only on known laws, namely that things will go from a high pressure to a lower pressure if left to their own devices, and such known things as gas solubilites in water, how pumps work, and how diffusion works. Ah, and now back out into the subzero temperatures around here.

"oh yes you do" Thanks Excathy. It's good to know someone cares because I'm definately not getting any respect from the weather around here these days. My neighbor thought he'd plow the parking lot out front for me yesterday but the snow was to deep and heavy, and his four wheel drive pickup was no match for it. So he flagged down a big snowplow (a buddy of his was driving it) to make a couple of passes and so maybe we'll do better today. The ominous thing was he told me the former owner used to shovel off the roof of the shop and attached pavilion when the snow got this deep. Imagine that, at 61 I'm considering shoveling off a roof!!! When I was a kid, I used to look forward to snow because I could make a killing with a snow shovel. The shovel cost two bucks, was taller than I was, and there wasn't a little old lady in the neighborhood that wouldn't let me at least shovel her walk with my new shovel (which brought in fifty cents). And if she wanted me to shovel the whole drive, why my pockets were taxed just trying to stuff all that money in them! But shoveling roofs? That's a concept I'd never heard before yesterday. I don't even want to do mine, let alone entertain the idea that I could make money at it walking up and down the street in search of...little young ladies in need of a hand with a shovel (all the little old ladies are gone because I'm now the little old man!) Sometimes I just don't like it that God is no respector of persons and the rain falls on the just and the unjust- as does the snow. Just once I'd like it to snow everywhere else but on my place this Winter. Hey, that would be a Wierwillian "snow in July" in reverse! Why everyone would send me their gasoline credit cards to get me to Florida. I'd be a bonifide MOG! Ah, but then I wouldn't need to get to Florida would I? Merry Christmas- ho, ho, ho! Maybe some reindeer will plow my snow.

Hello Song. Yes, it is a cryptic message. Decyphered it reads, "Please send me your gasoline credit card and an invite to stay the winter at your place in Florida". (assuming you're rich if not famous to boot). Actually, your hometown location, A1A Florida, must be some kind of cryptic message as well since, when I looked it up in my Atlas, those coordinates seem to be near Donalsonville, Georgia and not even in Florida! Ah, this might qualify for a look by Homeland Security! Who knows, Osama might be one of those oxygen molecules floating around- at least he's about 2/3's oxygen like the rest of us- the perfect disguise!

Eccl.1:7, "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." That's what the Preacher said circa 1000 BC. And since that Preacher was also a King in Jerusalem and a son of David, why it's fair to say he was none other than King Solomon. Imagine that, a King and also a Preacher! So this preacher knew (as did everyone else) that all the rivers run to the sea. They probably also had a suspicion that the sea was not filling up- at least they never saw it rise much in their lifetimes. But they'd probably never thought about the very water in the rivers somehow returning to the rivers again until Solomon suggested they think about it. For all I know, Solomon might have been well trained in higher mathmatics, physics, chemistry, and even had a Keenan & Keyes, "Thermodynamic Properties of Steam", on his desk (that's the engineers "Bible" for all matters related to ice, water and steam; boiling points, melting points, vapor pressures, heats of vaporization and heats of fusion, enthalpy, entropy, etc.) Anyway, it's a very obvious fact that water runs down hill if left to it's own devices. Always has, always will. If you want it to go up hill you're going to have to pay for the privilege, one way or another. There is no guesswork about it, only a dickering over the price you are willing to pay for the privilege. Or, you can wait for the sun to heat up the sea, vaporize some water, let the vapor float high enough until it freezes and floats back down as snow on the mountain tops, or gets cold enough to gather around the campfire of a dust particle and become a rain drop, and so enter the river at a lower point than otherwise. But other than that, you are going to have to pay, one way or another, to get water from a lower level to a higher level. The same principle applies to pressure and applies to heat. Pressure is going to flow from a higher pressure to a lower pressure and heat is going to flow from a higher temperature to a lower temperature- unless you put some energy into the system to make it do the opposite. That means you have to pay. There is no free lunch when it comes to the laws that govern the physical world. You play, you pay. So let's assume you did your homework and are now an oxygen atom, and have had enough experience to know that it's not always fun being an oxygen atom. Sometimes you float around in the air with 8 nitrogen bullies around to hastle you for every kindred spirit that comes along (another oxygen atom) to talk to. You soon learn to team up with another oxygen atom to better defend yourselves. You also learn that two's company, three's a crowd and so it's unlikely you stay as ozone, O3, very long. You also learn not to join up with a another oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms and become H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) because it also is no fun, struggling with your buddy over too few hydrogens to go around properly. Both O3 and H2O2 are toxic, although the latter works great to disinfect wounds. So you become an O2 molecule. But then you find that all those dirty, rotten nitrogen atoms also teamed up to do you in. Actually they did so because you had become the bully and they were just protecting themselves- and maybe wanting a little social life of their own. So it ends up a Mexican Stand-off between oxygen molecules and nitrogen molecules- one against four. Four cheep bullies against one very desirable, brilliant, beautiful, healthy you. Then one day you get too close to a person's mouth or nose. Nature abhors a vacuum and so you're sucked into the vortex of a veritable wind tunnel. You see, man cannot live without you for much more than a minute and so his predator capacities are quite astounding. He's willing to expend the energy to expand his diaphram and create a negative pressure and allow in four of those rotten nitrogen molecules just to get to you! So down the hatch you go. If you were at sea level before being caught, you enjoyed a partial pressure of (21% of 760 mm Hg=160 mm Hg) 160 millimeters of mercury (or 21% of 14.7 psia=3.09 psia; same thing, different units of measure). But you got sucked into that vortex and by the time you see all that water in the lungs (the lungs are 90% water) the pressure around you has gone down to 105 mm Hg- if you're lucky! So you've already lost about a third of the pressure you enjoyed outside and you haven't even begun the torturous journey you're about to go on. So you get grabbed by the water, swim around a little, squeeze through the water/blood membrane, swim around a little more, squeeze your way through the membrane of a red blood cell, swim around a little more and finally get gobbled up by the biggest molecule you've ever seen, a hemoglobin molecule (molecular weight about 80,000- compared to your molecular weight of 32- you are no match for that monster!) So you are trapped inside this PacMan like critter and can't get out. And you find that the pressure around you has gone to hell in a handbasket. Unknown to you, the red blood cell has meanwhile traveled through the artery system to some unknown place in the little toe where it, and you, expereince a great squeezing going on as this big fat pig called a Red Blood Cell tries to get through a tiny tube called a capillary. The pressure causes the hemoglobin molecule (itself a big pig inside an even bigger pig) to open up and so you make your escape, back into the water inside Big Red, through Big Red's skin, and now you find the oxygen pressure around you (all your buddies that you'd given up hope of ever seeing again) is now only 39 mmHg. Hemoglobin can't do better than that! So you keep swimming, squeeze through the capillary's "skin" and into the intercellular fluid (called interstitial fluid by those who care). The water you're in now is part of the lymph system that surrounds each cell, and it, along with all the water you've been in up to this point in your travels, is only 1/3 of the water in the body. The other two thirds is inside all those cells that are just waiting for you to arrive. So finally you arrive at a bonifide "breathing" cell (it's called cellular respiration in case you didn't know) and it's looking for you just as badly as the nose and mouth was- which started this whole trip to begin with! Only now, the oxygen pressure around you is down to around 30 mmHg, and by the time you get through the cell wall, swim (or get carried by myoglobin- the cells counter part of hemoglobin in the blood system) to the power plant that is drawing you in, why the oxygen partial pressure is going to be only 5 mmHg. But that's enough to get you there and keep the cell alive at the same time. If the oxygen partial pressure at the enterance to the mitochondria power plant is zero, that cell doesn't need you any more because it's dead. Bye, bye cell, hello recycling plant! (that's all the goodies in the lymph system that tear down the house, save the lumber, the copper plumbing and wiring, and anything else that isn't so old and decreped that the body says, "get rid of it!") So now you're invited into the power plant and before you know it some hydrocarbon comes along, you both explode together, and you find yourself inextricably tied to some stinking carbon atom and are now called carbon dioxide, or if you're lucky, you get saddled with a couple of hydrogen atoms and become a Mickey Mouse character and live happily ever after. Suffice it to say that weither you're CO2 or H2O, the cell wants to get rid of you. So one way or another you ultimately find yourself back in the atmosphere and ready for another trip, maybe to a tree or some corn, or a leaf, or something, so you can get back to being a happy camper again as a bonifide oxygen molecule. But here's the punch line to all this. If you're an oxygen molecule that gets into highly oxygenated water because someone went to the trouble, and cost, to put you there, now you and your buddies can get right next to that cell that is dying because nobody took care of it and the red blood cells aren't as young as they used to be, and the lungs don't function like they used to, and the heart doesn't function like it used to, and so you bypass all that and go directly into the lymph system from the small intestine and arrive at the cell wall close to 760 mmHg instead of 30 mmHg. All those cells are going to love you for showing up with so much energy. All of a sudden those power plants that were spewing out untold trash on their way to being shut down by the EPA, have their alarms go off so everyone knows "Oxygen has arrived, Oxygen has arrived! Everyone to your stations, Oxygen has arrived." And the oxygenated water that gets into the Portal vein rather than the lymph system (about a third of it) will set off similar alarms and all the cells in the circulatory system, red blood cells, white blood cells, lungs, heart muscle, etc. will rejoice to no longer be starved for oxygen. Maybe to help out the critics a little, who say it's preposterous that so little oxygen as contained in water could make any difference at all, I should compare Oxygenated water to starter fluid for a car on a cold winter's day. The starter fluid doesn't get you very far down the road, but it sure beats waiting for the tow truck!

Last night on the sports news there was a report of Terrill Owens, wide receiver for the Philidelphia Eagles, getting smashed up badly on Sunday and they said he would probably be out for most of the playoffs. They continued by saying that he had assured his teammates he would do everything he could to be ready as soon as possible and to that end was going to install a hyperbaric chamber in his living room so he would heal up faster. So I guess that HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen therapy)is a cat fairly out of the bag these days. Actually, I think that the field of sports medicine has pushed the envelope of treatments that work far beyond where they would have gone if left to the AMA and traditional doctors. As a case in point, this past September I was helping my neighbor, an engineer like myself, put a new bridge across the river to his house and he slipped while carrying a 2 by 6 and smashed the tip of his finger, almost cutting it completely off. I drove him to the hospital and it turned out the guy who stitched him up was a former engineering student who tripped over a few courses and so went into medicine. Anyway, we all had engineering in common and so the conversation turned to oxygenated water. The doctor said, "Now if only we could find something so simple to take away pain" and I replied that I thought all pain was probably no more than that part of the body screaming at us was saying "give me more oxygen!" An amazed look came across his face as he said, "My God, you could be right!" As he gave my neighbor instructions on how to care for the finger he finally said, "And drink some of Dave's water." After he left my neighbor said something to the effect that his estimation of what I'd been trying to tell him for a year had taken a quantum leap due to the doctors response to my information. Let's see, neither he nor the doctor had made it all the way through engineering school and I did. But the guy had a blue frock on and stitched up his finger and so obviously he knew much more than I did! Ah, I just get no respect! Anyway, a week later he had an appointment with his regular doctor and I suggested he ask him if hyperbaric treatment could be had for his throbbing finger. So he did. But his doctor dismissed the idea as ludicrous for such a trivial problem and said it would cost far too much. Easy for him to say, he wasn't the one with the painful finger! Had I known about the Get Well Center in Mansfield and the hyperbaric chamber there at the time, no doubt my neighbor would have driven down there in a heartbeat and paid out of his own pocket the $150 they charge for a treatment. He's the plant engineer at a local plant and so, unlike me, he has a job. And so the average doctor sends you home with pills to ease the pain and figures "Mother Nature" will do her thing. But sports doctors are into anything and everything that will help speed up the process of healing- because elete athletes these days are paid great deals of money to preform and the folks that pay them sure don't want them sitting on the sidelines waiting on Mother Nature if they can help it. Now if only they knew that oxygen saturated water was hyperbarics in a bottle, there wouldn't be a Mellenium Cooler left to be bought for $1600! All you millionares reading this, please think about me this Christmas and send me some Mellenium Cooler stock. I do need to start thinking about my retirement fund one of these days. Right now all my wealth is stored where moths can't corrupt nor thieves break through and steal. I'm OK with that, but sometimes, like now, it's difficult for me to get there and make a withdrawal. But then I'm in as good a health as I've ever been so who's thinking about retiring? (But a job would be nice for a change- especially if it was on a farm with thoroughbred runners in some nice warm climate. I don't ride, but the horses seem to like me and I think they're about as fine an animal as ever was created. I even have a hydrotherapy unit for horses that I built that I can bring with me, and, of course, oxygenated water.) And next time we'll talk about PRESSURE as oxygen goes in the body, travels down the pressure gradient and finally gets used by those little power plants in each cell called mitochondria.

Hello again Krys. I hope by now your little exhaust fan problem has been fixed. If not, I'd fix it myself if you happened to live close by (NEOhio). Anyway, no, Rich's doctor doesn't have him on oxygen. But I told him what you said about getting another doctor and he has an appointment with his doctor today and so plans to bring up the subject. His wife, Mary Ann, just got news that she has a malignant tumor that has to be removed as soon as the holidays are over and so they both went from good health to poor health in a six month period- while they moved from their home of many years (which they sold to one of their sons) to their retirement home (a nice mobile home but still a mobile home) fifty miles away. So they are going through "these are the times that try men's souls" and if they make it to the other side of it they could live to be a hundred. Rich thinks that the real problem is the change in the water they have at their new location- which could very well be. Add to that, moving stuff from it's home of twenty years to a much smaller place, building a very nice garage/shop to store it all, throw in a couple of week vacation which Mary Ann calls "the vacation from hell", a new car that has broken down four times on the road out in the middle of nowhere, (to which the Lemon Laws apply) and insensitive doctors that say their problems are not related to running out of oxygen, and you have a very ugly situation for some wonderfully humble folks to overcome- and overcome in a hurry before time runs out. They both spent a week in the hospital a month ago, Rich with an oxygen tube up his nose and Mary Ann under observation for "stress", which insulted her no end. They even wanted to give her a chemical stress test, but I advised against that since my girl friend underwent that horror on her way to carroted artery surgery a couple of years ago and said it was by far the worst thing she had experienced in her lfe- and she is no stranger to pain in her life. So now they say Mary Ann has a malignant tumor and want to take it out- all in the short period of one month! So, with what I now know about the brain consuming 20% of the body's oxygen (even though it consists of only 3% of the body's weight), no doubt the stress they've been under has chewed up lots of oxygen. And since they are both over weight (not that much but could easily be carrying around an extra twenty or thirty pounds of water in a clogged up lymph system), it's no wonder their energy level is low and their skeletal muscles, and heart muscle are starting to go on strike and refusing to show up for work. All this to say that Rich may be right with his theory that the change in water might be the culprit. And it doesn't even have to necessarily be "bad" water, just different water. Lord knows there is plenty of evidence of people getting sick while away from home just because they're drinking different water. Sure wish I knew the oxygen concentration in all those waters that made people sick. I wouldn't want to bet on it at this point, but my guess is that they all had very low oxygen levels and so were ripe for killing off all the good bacteria or whatever in water and allowing all those anaerobic devils to flourish. Come to think of it, I'm going to take my home made dissolved oxygen probe out to his place today and test his water for oxygen concentration. Since you've taught biology for twenty years you'll understand that my main motivation for starting this thread was to try to sift through eight notebooks worth of notes taken over the last year and a half on the subject of oxygen and water and try to bring some order to them- nothing like trying to teach something for clarifying the foggy notions and bringing some measure of simplicity to one's understanding- provided one doesn't lose all the students along the way! One final thought on distilled water. I use it because, if I do, the oxygenated water I make doesn't have anything but water and oxygen in it and so the issue of how it works, how well it works, etc. is unclouded by the possibility that a little this or that might be responsible for the effect seen rather than "mere" water or "mere" oxygen. And it seems that the various ions in solution in spring water or other commercial waters can't be used by the body anyway. But that someone else will have to comment or instruct us on because I'm no expert on that subject either. The only thing I know comes from a tape sent to me a few years ago by someone who had read my book, called, "Dead Doctors Don't Lie", done by an MD who previously was a vet who previous to that was raised on a farm. His premise was that since the average life span of medical doctors is much shorter than that of people in general, why would we trust what they had to say regarding our health and longevity? But, it seems one can even overdo it with distilling water, since double distilled water can evidently chew silica out of glassware in a laboratory and so ruin the glassware. Seems that at the margin of anything good there lurks the threat of something bad happening. That doesn't mean that Henry Thoreau was wrong when he said, "we need to witness our limits transgressed, and some life wandering in a pasture where we've never been before". It just means we aught to do so prayerfully and at least attempt to walk by the spirit while venturing into the unknown. We all know there are no experts in the area of walking by the spirit, at least V.P.W. showed us all that he wasn't nearly as expert as he thought he was, but to suggest that we shouldn't even try, is like a doctor telling us we shouldn't even try to understand how our body works or our mind.

Hello again Krys. Thanks again for bringing up the subject of lymph and lymphatic massage. My friend Rich- the one with congestive heart disease- evidently has serious water build up around his lungs which his doctor is worried about. So I've been trying to get him into a hyperbaric chamber somewhere and as a result of that effort went down to The Get Well Clinic in Mansfield, Ohio last week as they had been referred to me by Lance Brubaker down in Atlanta. They have one of those portable Vitaeris 320 chambers and after looking at it I've little doubt I can make one for cheep with a cattle watering trough, a piece of plexiglas for the top, a couple of Gast air compressors and an oxygen concentrator. But they are a very nice unit and I certainly don't begrudge them a profit for making them commercially available for around $20,000. Somebody had to put up lots of money to get USDA to sign off on them- which is why it's not likely any imports from China will be imported and sold for ten cents on the dollar any time soon. Anyway, the gal that runs the Get Well Center was concerned with Rich's lung congestion and though he aught to have lymph therapy done before going into the hyperbaric chamber for fear he'd drown from his own overfilled lymph system. It was a state of the art facility located in a new development with other medical type facilities in the development park. Her husband was a medical doctor and built the facility prior to passing away a year ago. There are two other medical doctors on the staff and so it's not located in the slums in the basement of a palm reader or witch doctor and staffed with morons. Anyway, I had four hours to investigate until I had to get back to pick up Pastor Sander's at Death Row in Mansfield Prison (where he generally ministers to prisoners on Fridays) and so was piled up with books and literature and given free reign of the facility by Mrs. Chung. Of particular interest was one of the methods they use for lymph therapy- using a light beam generator. The literature says it works up to four times faster than lymph massage, and is what she recommended for Rich prior to going into the HBOT chamber. Some of the literature explained that as dead cells break up, much of the debris become hydrophillic and therefore grabs on to water molecules to the point that lymph nodes get plugged up and won't let the lymph drain properly into the circulatory system. So the light beam generator (it's end is about the size of a hockey puck, with a hose connected to an oxygen bottle) activates these hydrated debris particles and breaks them up, thereby unplugging the lymph node. In addition, the oxygen flows through the special glass surface of the hockey puck and therefore gets into the skin at the same time. I didn't get a chance to see anyone actually being treated with it (there were perhaps a dozen patients there at the time but they were all being treated with other therapies) but it is totally noninvasive, painless, and the literature says it's as harmless as moon light. I was wondering if you were familiar with it and, if so, what you might be able to add to amplify it's method of action. In addition to being used for such things as chest congestion from colds, congestive heart disease, etc., or to get athletes ready for such things as the 2003 Tour De France, the literature gave one dramatic example of a lady with elephantiasis- generally recognized as a nonrecoverable illness (as is congestive heart disease- at least Rich's doctor has done nothing for it other than prescribing pills and asking him how may pillows he sleeps on to keep his head elevated). In conjunction with other "responsible medicine", treatment with the light beam generator reduced the size of her legs to almost normal (from the before and after pictures it appears that the size of the legs went down to one third their former size). She evidently was given eleven two hour treatments over a period of one year and lost a total of 80 pounds, 41 pounds lost the first three months. 80 pounds works out to almost 10 gallons of water (8.3 pounds per gallon is what water weighs) that she was carrying around due to the lymph system being plugged up. Anyway, sure would appreciate any light you have to shed on the subject.

Oops, I hit the "post now" button before I was finished. Sorry about that. One of the supposedly rediculous things about Mellenium Water Coolers is the outrageously high cost-$1,600. Now I'd love to see them around $5 myself as I'd get one in a heart beat and drink my own Penta Water without having to pay $1.83 for a 16 oz bottle of it. But I'd still have to pay for the distilled water or spring water I put on top of the cooler, and I'd still have to pay for the electricity to run the refrigeration unit and the molecular sieve (or whatever it is) that seperates the nitrogen in the air from the oxygen. So I might as well bitch about the high cost of electricity or the high cost of airconditioners or the high cost of molecular sieves, or even the high cost of "normal" water coolers as to think the Mellenium Cooler is outrageously priced. In other words, it appears that the Mellenium Water Cooler is more than a piece of sheet metal. And if Dr. Barrett is any kind of a medical doctor at all, there are no doubt many pieces of equipment he's used that cost lots more than a Mellenium Water Cooler, and he' s not complaining about the cost of them! Actually, my reference to Penta Water is somewhat unfair because they have a patent on their water, whether they oxygenate it or not. The Patent number is 6,521,248 in case anybody wants to look it up and read the patent. It's billed as the world's only patented water. It's a process patent- not on how they oxygenated their water but on how they process it to get the "mer" as in polymer (a five water molecule cluster)- which may or may not be how the body processes it when it goes into the circulatory system and lymph system in the small intestines. Anyway, when I read the patent I came across a new force that I had never heard of before- London forces. Turns out they are a subset of VanderWaals forces, which are a subset of the forces that hold water molecules together, which themselves a very small forces compared to the forces that hold atoms together to form molecules. And they all are very small compared to what Netwon was thinking about when he came up with F=MA. Neverthe less, the instructions above on how to make your own oxygenated water do not infringe on their patent as there is nothing patentable about puting gas pressure over (or through) water. Suffice it to say that the Nobel Prize in Chemistry last year had nothing to do with Penta Water as the water molecules lining up to get through aquaporin and thereby into the cell. So whether the water in the lymph is a five molecule "mer" or a thousand molecule polymer, I don't know. But it is now clear that the water molecules have to go through the cell wall in single file and do a flip flop half way through. If Penta Water helps this process, why God bless them. I rather think that it's the high oxygen concentration that people notice and therefore go back and buy more. But it could be both. If you punch in PentaWater in your search engine you'll get their web page and if you put your zip code in a box there, they'll tell you the nearest store where you can buy it. Ah the computer age, ain't it wonderful! They also have a page on Edema, which gets into the lymph and Krys's discussions about lymph. Apparently 2/3 of the body's water is carried inside of the cells that make up the body and 1/3 is in the extracellular space, the lymph system, and the blood system. The water in the lymph starts with the small intestine (the Chyle) and ends with the lymph nodes, where it dumps into the circulatory (blood) system and so gets cleaned, filtered, and ultimately discharged as urine and feces. (The brown color of feses is evidently all those dead hemoglobin cells- or what is left of them after their own "digestion"). SIBKIS everyone!

Hey Todd, it worked!

Thanks Todd- or should I say SirGuessalot? Unfortunately, when I go to "Private Topics" my computer gives me a dire warning that it will shut down and never talk to me again if I don't get out immediately. I had the same problem when I tried to respond to Krys's Private Topic. I've been thinking about puting my computer in a hyperbaric chamber at about 100 atmospheres, or maybe give it some hydrotherapy under serious oxygen pressure. But then it's just possible that I should learn the rudiments of how the darn things work first- like how to insert a quote from a previous message into one I'm composing! What caught my attention about your original post was, "The breath is most likely the most diverse and powerful biological biological tools we have." Everything else does depend on it after all. WE can go for at least 40 days without food and suffer no biological damage (ie, Jesus and John the Baptist), we can probably go a week without water if we're not in the Mojave in July, but we can't go more than a few minutes wihtout breathing- even if we're under water and don't want to! And so it seems to me that we could do without the study of foods until long after we study water. And we can do without the study of water until long after we study oxygen. (That presumes that we'd logically want to study what is most important first rather than last- the See It Big, Keep It Simple routine instead of the See It Small And Then Coimplicate The hell Out Of What Little Is Seen routine. Oh, and don't feel like you have to be an expert on any subject just to post here. Actually, I don't think there is any such thing as an expert, other than the common understanding that an expert is a common man away from home. Anyway, thanks again for the posts. I've read them a couple, three, times and will have to go back over them a few more times to let what you said sink in- especially the last suggestion about considering breathing as food and food as medicine. Seems there is a lot of overmedication going on!!

Hello dmiller. Yes, I'm the same guy that wrote "The Two Ways of the First Century Church". It was first published in 1989 and I still get requests for hard copies even though it's been on my web site since I think 1996. For those who would like to read it online (for free!) the link is http://www.en.com/users/anders In a sense, the book of Acts is the focal point of Christianity like oxygen is the focal point of the body. Without understanding Acts, one cannot understand Paul's Epistles because Acts is the setting in which Paul lived and wrote. So also, without understanding oxygen, one cannot hope to understand the body. About two thirds of the entire body is oxygen! In fact, last year the Nobel Prize in chemistry was given to folks at the University of Chicago and the University of California-San Francisco for their work with ..... water! (and almost 90% of water is oxygen- 16 18th's of it to be exact). What these folks did was show how water molecules enter a cell through what is called aquaporin (sort of a Roman aquaduct in miniture). If you consider a water molecule to look like a Mickey Mouse head, then the ears are the hydrogen atoms and the face is the oxygen atom. The top of the ears has a slightly positive charge and the bottom of the face has a slightly negative charge. So they showed that the cell membrane is five water molecules thick and so the aquaporin holds five water molecules. so far not really anything new. But what was new was that they showed that as the water molecules line up single file to pass thru the membrane, they start out with the face of Mickey Mouse going into the aquaporin first and the ears last, but half way through the passage they are turned around so that the ears of Mickey Mouse come out first, causing any stray protons (H+ ions) to be repelled so they don't escape from the cell and cause the cell to die. Until these guys did the world's largest private computer simulation, it was always a big question mark as to what prevented H+ ions from leaking out of a cell. It is one of those preposterously simple things- that never was simple before a couple of years ago when they did the work and then became famous once they got the Nobel Prize. There was another guy back in the fifties that got the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his work showing that all cancer was caused by a lack of oxygen. That finding is being questioned today but I think the guys who are questioning it are straining out gnats and swallowing camels. I think his name was Otto Warburg. By the way, I wish the fellow that talked about proper breathing would amplyfy the subject here. It's another of those things that is never taught because it's too simple. But fact is we don't take care of ourselves, take lots of things for granted, and consequently the hemoglobin in our systems gets weaker aws we age. And, whereas it will release oxygen at a partial pressure of 39 mm Hg when we are young, by the time we're 40 that's down 10% and by the time we're 60 it's down 20%- sort of like a tire slowly going flat. And when we get sick, our immune systems demand all the oxygen it can get so there is none left to think straight or run laps around the gym. Instead, we lay in bed because we don't have the strength to get up. And we don't use our brain either but mostly sleep. Turns out that the immune system works best when the oxygen partial pressure reaches 50-80 mm Hg- which is why hyperbaric chambers are good for so many things. And although oxygen saturated water won't quite get the partial pressure up to 50 mm hg, it will get it about 20% higher after drinking a sixteen ounce glass than it was before doing so. And that increased pressure lasts a good hour or more (according to Dr. Pakdaman and the work he did with cancer patients back in the late sixties, who's oxygen partial pressure at the cell level was 20 mm Hg or below and went up to above 30 mm Hg within five minutes of drinking water oxygenated to 50 ppm- and stayed there for over an hour). So yes, I'm the same guy. And I'm the same guy that promoted V.P. Wierwille's P.F.A.L.class and got him to put it on film and then trapsed around the country with it to show people how to use projectors so the next time I wouldn't have to be there, and they wouldn't wipe out a $10,000 set of films because they didn't know how to run a projector. No doubt lots of others could have done what I did, but at the time I was the only guy around that was willing to quit a good paying engineering job and hit the road at my own expense and not charge anybody a dime for my time. (that's pretty unusual for an engineer, or a doctor, or a lawyer, you'll have to admit.) As time went by lots of others showed up for "work" and I only bemoan the fact that Townsend, the guy who put Avis Rent-a-car on the map, was right ,in his book, he said that the last act of a dying organization was to get out a new and enlarged edition of the rule book. And so my gripe with twi was, and is, with the "corporate insiders" who just had to control the folks doing the work and thereby prevent them from walking by the spirit. Like Jesus said of the lawyers of his time, "You compass land and sea to make one prosylite, and then make him twofold the child of hell as yourself." So this is my third major project in life. Sometimes I sure wish I had the money I passed up doing the other two projects. But some things are just too important to neglect, even if there is no paycheck coming in.

Hello again Krys. Sorry if I led you to believe that heat was a reactant in chemical reactions- organic or inorganic. It certainly isn't, at least not in combustion reactions or metabolic reactions. There may be some endothermic (takes in heat) reactions in the body that I don't know of but I trust most are exothermic (gives off heat). So heat is the result of a biochemical reaction (or series of reactions as you point out) not the cause of them. What I was trying to get across is that as oxygen reacts with glucose, heat is given off along with CO2 and Water and so the first thing that happens is the temperature starts going up, which increses the RATE of the reaction- the speed of the collisions and the energy of impact they have when they smack into each other. I know that all the reactions in the human body are much more orderly and happen much more slowly than those in the combustion chamber of a cylinder in a car because they all happen in aqueous solution around 100 degrees F while those in a car take place at 2000-3000 degrees F in a gasseous state. And so the one is called combustion and the other metabolism but they are the same basic reaction (with lots of side reactions), namely fuel + oxygen yields CO2 plus H2O + heat, if they go to completion. In the case of the human (or animal) the nose takes in the oxygen (air), the mouth takes in the food, and the products of combustion go out the tail pipe, (feces, urine), or the radiator (skin and lungs) with small amounts being clipped away as hair or finger and toe nails. That's about it, pretty simple (and yet so profound). By the way, the horse has a lot smaller surface area to weight ratio than humans do and so staying cool is a problem for them. A human would die long before a horse if our core temperature rose to 115 deegrees F. They commonly go of their feed if not cooled down fast enough or thoroughly enough as the digestive bacteria are killed by the heat build up in the digestive tract. Their normal body temperature is about the same as ours but they are a truly remarkable running machine. Their heart rates can get up to 230 beats per minute at maximum effort, their spleen normally sequesters and then releases up to 50% more hemoglobin when the heart rate goes above 160 bpm, and because of special hair on their bodies they can withstand cold much better than we can- provided they are out of the wind. Anyway, my "preposterously simple" comment was not meant in any way to disparage simplicity. I think Tremendous Jones was spot on with his "see it big, keep it simple" First Law of Leadership. In the case of our own health I think we've allowed the medical profession to convince us that it's not possible for the average man or woman to understand their own body and how it functions and so we need to impoverish ourselves with health insurance and rely on them exclusively when we get sick. I mean, they are all brilliant and the rest of us dummies, and besides, everyone knows that God sent doctors to heal us- far be it for Him to do so himself! But I know of numerous students who couldn't make the grade in engineering school but went on in medicine, but I know of none who flunked out of medical school and went into engineering. So who's kidding who? No doubt there are brilliant doctors, but there are also many who are bringing that profession down to the level of lawyers, which are fast becoming more hated than used car salesmen. I read a telling article the other day written by a guy who'd just come back from China. He pointed out that their politicians were all engineers while ours are all lawyers. I thought, "Yep, they're interested in building a nation and we're interested in stealing and plundering from ours." When I first read the article quoted in my last post to excathy, I was outraged to think that our government has known for the last thirty years or more that hyperbaric therapy is effective in the treatment of stroke and many other health problems and yet I doubt that anyone on this board has ever heard his or her doctor even mention the word hyperbaric let alone suggested it's use for anybody. You asked me last week Krys how I knew Russ was out of oxygen when he grabbed on to the desk and slowly fell to the floor while going to get a drink of water at the Cleveland Clinic. It was a simple conclusion for me to reach as he wasn't malnourished, never missed a doctors appointment, wasn't knocked over by a hammer to the head, and had just had a drink of water and was not dehydrated. His skelital muscles just refused to hold him up- the "oxygen debt" you mentioned in yourlast post got forclosed on! There's lots more to discuss regarding highly oxygenated water and it's therapeutic effect on the body so hopefully I haven't already worn everybody out with my long posts. But since some are sure to figure I'm bragging with the above info on doctors vs engineers, I might as well tell another story. When I was studying to get my masters degree in eduation one of the professors I knew came up to me after he'd learned that I was an engineer. He said, "You know, engineers are the most creative people in the world." It sounded strange to me because we'd always been called "slide rule" or "dipstick" back in the days when I was an undergraduate, by those who were not engineering students. (I now figure they were jealous!) And even since then the field of engineering hasn't enjoyed the same PR success as doctors or lawyers enjoy. Hell, even the garbage man is called a "Sanitary Engineer" these days. I'd always thought of "creative" people as those into art, not science. But in one of my courses I learned about a process of teaching called Synectics, a powerful teaching tool based on the fact that creativity is not inherited but learned- sort of like "emagineering" or the power of positive thinking, except quite structured and real. And I realized that engineers did that all the time without even knowing it was Synectics. So I'll leave you all with an assignment. Imagine yourselves as an oxygen molecule in the body and ask yourselves how you feel as you travel around the intergalactic space with the next oxygen molecule light years away from you. Where will you go, who wants you, how will you handle rejection, how many dead cells do you see, what happens if you get cold or warm, what happens if you marry some carbon atom and become CO2. In other words, try to examine the feeling side of things. I think you'll learn a lot about oxygen and water in the process- no matter your background or educational level. Happy homeworking!

Hello Excathy. If you type in hyperbaric chambers into your search engine you can hopefully find a hyperbaric clinic near wherever it is that your mom's husband lives. There is one in Atlanta that I know about as well as one in Cincinnati and one in Mansfield, Ohio. The one in Cincinnati charges $100 per treatment (takes about an hour and a half) and the one in Atlanta charges $55-$75 per treatment depending on how many treatments are done. I don't know yet what the one in Mansfield charges but will call them tomorrow. But it gives you an idea that the cost is not only bearable by the rich and famous. My guess is that your mom's husband is paying more than that in meds now. I don't know how many treatments it will take but the folks at the clinics should know. Allow me to offer a long quote from another article in Hyperbaric Medicine Today, in the issue mentioned in a previous post here. The article is entitled "Medicare's Noncovered Conditions: a conversation with Dr, George B. Hart", by David Freels. .................. Freels: "Where did the second list come from, the 'Noncovered' list?" Dr. Hart: "It came from me." Freels: "You're kidding. Why?" Dr. hart: "I told Social Security that I didn't want to be on the committee, but they kept asking. So finally I said yes. Under one condition." Freels: "What?" Dr. Hart: "That they let me add the 'Noncovered' list." Freels: "Why?" Dr. hart: "Because one day this guy came to my office. He was a very, very, very senior government official, who's name you would recognize. He came into my office and pointed his finger at me and said, 'you will not, under any circumstances, approve Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy for stroke.' 'Why not', I said, 'It works.' 'I don't care,' he said, 'I'm not going to let you do it.' 'But it works,' I said, 'You know it works.' 'I don't care,' he said, 'it'll break the bank, and I'm not going to let you do it. You're not going to approve this for stroke, and that's an order.' 'An order?' I asked. I was an officer in the United States Navy. Im retired now, I was given an order, and I had to obey it." Freels: "What did he mean by 'break the bank?'" Dr Hart: "He thought the country would go bankrupt if we treated everybody who had a stroke. At that time there were probably less than a hundred chambers in the whole country. Maybe just 30 or 40." Freels: "Who was this who gave you the order?" Dr. Hart: "I can't say, but you'd recognize the name if I told you. Listen, I've treated so many retired Navy officers who've stroked, I've put them in the chamber and they've made a complete recovery." Freels: "So Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy works for stroke?" Dr. Hart: "Of course it works. It works for stroke better than just about anything else, except maybe DCS." Freels: "DCS?" Dr. Hart: Decompression sickness. The bends. It hits scuba divers. Listen, if they made HBO available for everything it works for, three forths of the nursing homes in this country would shut down inside of six months. Everybody would go home. They wouldn't need them. It works for stroke, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's- Alzheimer's, let me tell you. See, there's a very real, very serious disease where the vascular tissue breaks down in the brain with age. Creates dementia, senility. What everybody now calls Alzheimer's." Freels: "Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy works for Alzheimer's?" Dr. hart: "Of course it does. You just can't wait until they are blithering idiots before you give it to them. You've got to give it to them early enough in the disease process. If you wait until their brains are mush it's not going to do them any good at all." Freels: "Do you realize what you're telling me? You're telling me there really was somebody on the grassy knoll in Dallas." Dr. Hart: "Listen, I spent my entire career working for the government. Anybody who works for the government as long as I did can tell you stories like this. I don't care what department or agency they work for. Everybody could tell you something like what I've just told you." ................. That quote is by no means the entire article, but it does give good evidence that hyperbaric treatments work for stroke victims. Since the Medicare regs regarding HBO were first established in 1971, I rather think that the "very, very, very senior government official" was President Nixon because he was in office at the time, was an ex navy guy as I recall, and had flibitus (sp) which probably caused him to stroke. If Dr. Hart was a navy officer of senior enough rank, he might have used "very senior" of an officer considerably above him in the chain of command. He might have used two vary's if talking about the secretary of the Navy, but "very, very, very, senior government official, who's name you would recognize" seems to me that can only be one guy, the Commander-in-Chief! And the fact that there may have been less than a hundred hyperbaric chambers in the country at the time would hardly be a reason for such a man to be concerned that building hundreds or thousands, or even millions more of them might break the bank. These are not CTScan's we're talking about that cost millions of dollars each. An engineer wouldn't even consider them a serious pressure vessel, no more than they would consider a water pipe in the ground at the base of a water tower sticking a hundred feet in the air. An oxygen bottle, filled with oxygen to 2,500 psig, now that's pressure! And no matter how many bells and whistles are put on a chamber for safety, fire hazzard, or simply to raise the price, they cannot be really big ticket items, nor more than a Porshe or Lincoln is. But if stroke victims receiving social security all, or even the majority of them, recovered completely from stroke and lived twenty years longer than they otherwise would, now that would break the back of the social security system. But social security is, and has been since it's inception, one huge Ponza Scheme and is doomed to fail sooner or later and so anyone relying on it to survive is surely "leaning on the arm of man" which Paul cautions against! Oops, maybe they should have read his Epistles with a little more serious intent! My experience is that he wasn't lying! Hope this all helps excathy.

Hello again Krys. Wish I knew how to do the quote thing but I don't and so I'll just have to muck this thing through. Dr. James "remarkable" comment was specifically about the urine being colorless after drinking highly oxygenated water. I suspected he found it remarkable because it's what he finds after people come out of hyperbaric chambers. But i didn't have that confirmed until this week, when I talked for an hour or so with a friend of Dr. James by phone down in Atlanta. The fellows name is Lance Brubaker and he has a hyperbaric clinic (or clinics) down there and also sells hyperbaric chambers- says he has a list of 500 people waiting to buy used ones when they come up for sale. He's an engineer like I am but has spent the past twenty years in biomedical research and sounds like he has a lot of irons in the fire. More about him later, but suffice it to say that colorless urine is "unremarkable" after hyperbaric sessions. It's the norm not the exception to the norm. He knew of Penta Water but had never considered that highly oxygenated water might actually be very low grade hyperbaric treatment. (the difference being that water doesn't care how much oxygen pressure you put on it but people sure do.) I suspect that idea is what triggered Dr. James comment, as highly oxygenated water may have a role in solving the obesity problem he's dealing with as head of the UN Task force on Obesity. But guessing what another is thinking is risky business as you and I both know! Regarding my cousin Russ, he passed away the day before Christmas last year. He'd been in a nursing home since just before Thanksgiving. The nursing home was just down the road from me and so I'd take him a two liter bottle of freshly made water (now called Pneuma Water- thanks to Kit's logo making abilities) each morning and tell the nurses to give it to him when he was thirsty. The next day I'd take him another bottle and removed the previous days- unused. Finally I asked the nurse why they didn't give him the water and she replied, "What's wrong with our water?" I wanted to strangle her but instead replied, "your water doesn't have 75 parts per million oxygen in it." She looked at me as if I were nuts. Maybe if I'd have said 75 milligrams per liter she would have thought I was a geneous. I even set up a meeting with the nursing home doctor and Doris, Russ's wife. We showed up for the meeting but the doctor didn't. So Russ didn't get the water even though I brought it every day. He was in much too weak a condition to get it for himself and a few days before he died he said, "It's just not any fun having no energy." He wanted to get home for Christmas but just didn't make it. By the way, he was the only guy in the world that could make mother laugh no matter how fould her mood might be. I always knew it was him on the phone because within fifteen seconds she'd be laughing her head off and his off colored stories or jokes. Had I known what I know today, I'd have gotten him a portable hyperbaric chamber (they cost $15,000- $20,000) got him out of that godforsaken nursing home and home to his family- who easily could have gotten him into the chamber once or twice a day for an hour to an hour and a half, at a pressure of 1.5 atmospheres absolute or 8 psig, about one third of the pressure in your car tires- not what an engineer would call serious pressure at all. Maybe that's why it's given the fancy name hyperbaric chamber instead of pressure vessel. Like Crocidile Dundee when he looked at the kids switch blade and then pulled out his bowie knife and said, "That ain't no knife, this is a knife!" If you doubt me about the effect a hyperaric chamber would have had on Russ, see if you can get a copy of Hyperbaric Medicine Today, Vol II, Issue II, April-September 2003. In it is an article entitled "Good bye to Dr. Edward Teller" (he was known as the Father of the H Bomb). He received hyperbaric oxygen treatments 6 days a week for a total of 3,000 treatments with no signs of toxicity whatsoever and worked on an underground neucular reactor he had conceptualized up until days before he died at 95 years of age. Brubaker tells me that if I ever want to get a doctor in trouble (at least a health insurance/medicaid paid kind of doctor- which is most of them), all I need to do is call my insurance company and tell them that the doctor has recommended hyperbaric treatments and they'll be on the phone to him within minutes to castigate him for doing so- even if he didn't! I also asked him if the congressional hearings on hyperbaric therapy had been held this past spring and he said that they had and medicaid had added MS victims to the list of "approved conditions" for hyperbaric treatment that medicaid would pay for. Each MS victim evidently costs Medicaid a million dollars so that was a no brainer. He added that they didn't approve stroke victims for addition to the "approved" list since it would bankrupt social security if everyone that had stroked fully recovered and received their social security checks for perhaps twenty years longer than otherwise. As he put it, it's the politics of death. In Russ's case, he had plenty of money to do it without relying on medicaid. The trouble is that the doctors all know about hyperbarics but won't tell patients and won't recommend it, nor can you use the chambers that are in every hospital even if you are willing to pay for it yourself. So like all that water on the grocery shelves these days (a good portion of which are probably just tag alongs with no oxygen added at all) we're faced with private hyperbaric clinics popping up as the cat gets fairly out of the bag regarding the ever growing list of benificial uses for hyperbarics. Football players use the portable ones (that only go up to 4 psi or slightly higher) to stop bruising after games or to recover from exercise faster so they can do more exercise. There's even hyperbaric chambers at some of the major race tracks and for $500 you can do what is called "oxygen doping" which is perfectly legal prior to a race by puting the horse in a hyperbaric chamber for an hour. It won't make a $4,000 claimer into a Secretariat, but it surely will make him a better $4,000 claimer. More importantly to me is a horse that is injured will heal up faster and better with hyperbaric therapy. By the way Krys, the Penta Water you bought didn't fizz because it's not saturated with oxygen. It's 40-50 ppm, which is far better than any of the other commercial products I've tested, but saturation is 75 ppm at 32 F and it has to be far above 75ppm before you see the characteristic milky color. The Pneuma Water I make (that's easier to say than "highly oxygenated water" all the time- thanks Kit!) is pressurized to 80 psi, or 6 atmospheres absolute, a pressure that would kill a person. It generally measures around 400 ppm when measured under pressure and so it's the 325 ppm that flashes off to the atmosphere that causes the pssst and the milkiness. And you won't even see it then unless the container you're pouring it into is high and narrow. Oh, about Newton, physics and collisions. Three of my favorite courses in college were Thermodynamics, Physical Chemistry and Gas Dynamics. Seems I usually loved what everybody else hated! Anyway, the kenitic theory of gasses does a pretty good job of tying in the velocity of gas molecules with their temperature. And to simplify things we usually say they are ideal gasses, which means that all the collisions are elastic collisions and so no reactions are taking place. In organic reactions the rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles for each ten degree rise in temperature- which is why a horses core body temperature can get up to 115 F after a race and they must be walked until they cool down or they will die. They expend so much energy that they lose something like 30 pounds just running a six furlong race. Remember that fuel plus oxygen produces CO2 plus H2O plus energy. Of the energy produced two thirds or more goes to heat and less than a third to contracting muscle tissue. The heat makes the reaction rate increase and finally the anaerobic threshhold is reached and the horse runs out of gas as he starts slowing down due to the anaerobic processes being much less efficient than the aerobic ones are. Am I close to what really happens from a biologists point of view or have I missed something inportant? Best wishes, Dave

Hello Kit. I noticed when I logged in that there have been 50 replies to this thread and over 600 viewers in the past week. So it looks like it is accomplishing what you thought it would six months ago-but I was too stubborn to do it then- for not very good reasons as it turns out. Seems to me that the biggest flaw in science is that there is far too much analysis and far to little synthesis- especially cross-disciplinary synthisis. It's sort of like taking a rose apart pedal by pedal, weighing each pedal, getting it's chemical composition, maybe speculating on how it might tie in with black holes in space or Darwins Theory, and no one willing to say, "Hey, stop destroying all those roses!" when far fewer would have to be destroyed if the physicists, chemists, biologists, psychologists, physiologists, engineers, et al, shared their findings and what was left of the roses they destroyed when they were through with them. But no, each has to have his own rose stash to ruin and pays little attention to what the others are finding. For not one of them can put the roses back together again and return them to their former glory. All of them together can't even do that- but they sure have a better shot at it than any single discipline does. So here one doesn't know who might join in as time goes by. Krys just mentioned there is a fellow that knows chemistry around. She knows biology and some physics (but evidently not quantum mechanics or physical chemistry- two fields I'm somewhat familiar with, but I wouldn't be surprised to find someone showing up who knows quite a bit more about them than I do.) Fact is we are talking about a preposterously simple subject- oxygen, water and good health. We couldadd food into the discussion and perhaps temperature, and then we'd have it all! We need three pounds of food on average, three pounds of water, and six pounds of oxygen each day to live and enough clothes (or a fire) to keep our body temperature around 100F. Other than that, we really need precious little to live. And we only actually get two pounds of oxygen in our blood stream because two out of three oxygen molecules we breath in get breathed right back out again. And, since we're normally breathing air rather than pure oxygen, we have to take in 30 pounds of air each day just to get the six pounds of oxygen so we can use two pounds. And if we add to those facts that each hemoglobin molecule only drops off one of it's four oxygen molecules on each trip around the track from the lungs and back, it looks like a pretty ineffecient body that we have. That is, until we need some energy in a hurry and find that we have it just waiting on us to ask (or demand!) So you'll have more than a little to contribute as time goes on I'm sure. Already your prior post got a marine in St. Croix to think about somehow getting some oxygenated water because of your stellar reputation. Now if only I could talk Paw into adding a spell checker to use for replies, why this wouldn't be all that different than sending you an email- and we never say anything private anyway (at least it can be presumed that FEDGOV has access to all emails if they want to bother to read them!