IMF777

Zixar, I'd do the same, but first I'd let the loved ones with family buried in the campfire area come and get their remains. Then they can be buried with dignity and not have anyone have to beg for permission to visit their grave.

From what I have read about the Peeler case, in my opinion, it looks like TWI will be forced into bankruptcy, and have their assets seized. What would you bid on at the auction? [This message was edited by pawtucket on January 22, 2004 at 18:10.]

Napkin Lady, The Judge has set a trial date of July 12 at 9:00am. Torches,staves, and hanging rope are optional.....Just kidding....

I just noticed that TWI's 2003 Financial Report has just been posted at: http://www.excultworld.com/twi_financial.htm Gee, 2002 was $48,961,850 and 2003 was $48,954,586 Seems a bit similar?????

From reading the Peeler's complaint, most of their grievences are not doctrinal at all, but allegations of deceptive practices that are not religious beliefs. Reading Attorney Lawrence Levy's 2 interviews on Ex-Cultworld, his approach was never to get into the religious beliefs, but to emphasize the groups actions in regard to the laws of the land, like deceptive trade practices, cooercion etc. Bob Snow's new book on cults defines a cult as "employing unethicaal manipulative techniques of persuasion and control designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders, to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community". .... "must be involved in some type of criminal action, be it murder, sexual abuse, assault, kidnapping, arson, financial fraud, or some other offense." Page 6 (Bob Snow talks about a cult called The Way International Page163 and following)

Someone asked about tapes being used in court, and the answer I got was they are. If you have any TWI tapes, documents, Way puiblications etc that contradict what you have read in the evidentiary court hearing testimony, the Peelers could probably use it. The rumor I have heard is that the Peeler's attorneys are going after the trustees personally and attempting to pierce the corporate veil. TWI's attorneys are frantically trying to block this with court motions, in addition to the many they have filed to delay the case coming to trial. The Judge is rumored to be tired of TWI's delays, and has set a trial date of July 12 at 9:00am. [This message was edited by IMF777 on January 19, 2004 at 17:12.]

Interesting info I read in Rosie's testimony: page 5 no mention of VPW's academic credentials page 9 A. about 28 countries and 2 U.S. territories page 11 But there's a steady flow of people coming and going page 19 A lot of our followers are in debt page 20 Q.There is an allegation ...that the Way has taught that if someone has one penny of debt, he will suffer disabling harm or death. Has The Way ever taught that? A. Not to my knowledge. I have never heard that. Page 23 about the Peelers.... Q. How about when they left the organization in 2001; were they mark and avoided at that point? A. No they were not Q. How about when they filed the lawsuit....? A. No Q. Have they ever been mark and avoided? A. No, they have not page 25 and 26 how TWI's money is spent: 60% employee costs, facilities maintenance 18%, meetings, classes, training 14% page 28 Craig and adultery First time came to attention was advanced class 1998 (before The Alle** in 1999) Didn't TWI claim it was a one time "affair"???? [This message was edited by IMF777 on January 19, 2004 at 8:53.]

Dear WrestlenotAgainst, Although the idea of saying our piece on this forum is nice, it can't be used in court. It is considered hearsay evidence. However, you can contact Pat at excultworld@prowebtechs.com and ask him how to do it so that could be used in court. He's in law school and should know. I think a notorized affadavit thing or sworn deposition would do at least as far as I have seen on Judge Judy and People's court.....

Cherished child, Unlike the other two latest cases, the Peelers has the financial resources to weather the storm. Also, the rumors I have heard is that they want it to go to trial so that all the facts about this group come out in open court once and for all. Mike Anderson is a very accomplished attorney who represents the Peelers, and as you know, Lawrence Levy is co-counsel and has been very successful in cult litigation. The original court filing: http://www.excultworld.com/Peeler%20Lawsui...20Documents.htm [This message was edited by IMF777 on January 18, 2004 at 14:26.]

Cherished Child: The opening paragraph from the page where the court testimony is posted stated:" This hearing was one of the many legal maneuvers The Way International (TWI) has attempted to move the case to Federal Court. The Judge however, has sent the case back to state court where it started. As of January 2004, depositions are expected to be taken in the case shortly." If depositions are being taken shortly, this would not be a dead case. Also, this was an evidentiary hearing because TWI was trying to have the case tried in Federal Court which would be more favorable to them. The hearing was to determine jurisdiction, not to try the case which is coming up after depositions are taken. Rumors I have heard is that as many as 60 ex-members will be witnesses in the case when it comes to trial.

I came across this posting on another list and thought it relavent about the current case against TWI by the Peelers. This is the actual court testimony by Rivenbark and other way leaders about adultery, debt, mark and avoid, Martindale's "affairs" and other topics. http://www.excultworld.com/Lawsuit%20Docum...evidentiary.htm

Tony, I found this picture of the 2nd? billboard near the bottom of the page at: http://www.excultworld.com/twi.htm People I have asked said it was not defaced like the first one because the web address was too high up to reach and done twice. The Way's symbol is a tree, isn't it? The thing about everyone leaving and a lush tree on one side and a dead one on the other side must have been significant? Anyone else know about this? [This message was edited by IMF777 on January 14, 2004 at 9:30.]

I heard about a video done at HQ with Steve Sann, The Leonards and a lady from way publications. Many of the Wierwille family took BG Leonard's class, including VPW. Near the end of the interview,Mrs. Wierwille came in and commented about how VPW and his family's knowledge about the Holy Spirit field was due to Leonard's class and she thanked them. Many people were going up to the Leonards during this time that they were at HQ including Corps Grads. Most were getting healed and big head was livid with jealousy. Leonard was rumored to be at HQ to straighten it out spiritually, and was going to teach that night. Big head cancelled Leonard's teaching slot and chased the leonards off, commenting that if he taught, so many devil spirits would be released and they would burn a hole in the bigtop.

There was an interesting comparison done between BG Leonard's ministry and Wierwille's. Don't know if any of you have seen it: http://www.waychrist.com/BG%20V.%20VPW.htm

Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far. I need however to find the specific teaching tape(s) that this was said by Wierwille preferably or other board members that stated that TWI is not a christian organization, and or that they despise christianity. Any help would be appreciated. [This message was edited by IMF777 on January 07, 2004 at 12:02.]

Perhaps those who believe VPW is saved are right, and his duties in the afterlife will be assigned based on the life he lived on this earth. The only job I can foresee him having that is appropriate for his life is being either a tampon or condom dispenser, or a tampon or condom itself. Used and thrown away after someone is done with him....

This Wierwille clown probably gets reincarnated every day as a rape victem so that he can finally experience first hand what he did to others......

Does anyone know what Way teaching tape(s), articles, or books that Mr.Wierwille or other BOTs said TWI was not a Christian organization or ran down Christianity? Any help would be greatly appreciated. IMF777@hotmail.com [This message was edited by IMF777 on January 04, 2004 at 12:55.]

excathedra: when pat went away to the cult's training place in kansas we lost track of each other for a few years. We ran into each other a few years ago at the new england press convention and he has been telling me bits and pieces about wierwille's delusion as I call it since. I don't own a computer, so he let's me use his puter which he doesn't even let his wife do, so you could say we're close. Pat suggested I read up on TWIG here at the spot to learn more.

My close friend Pat had had 3 failed cardiac stress tests at 2 different hospitals. He was in sad shape and faced the prospect of quadruple bypass surgery that he may not live through. He went to Texas as a last attempt to save his life, and took BG Leonard's gifts of the spirit course, and was ministered to by Leonard and his wife from BG's hospital bed (he was 94?). Pat looked alive again and a few months later had a heart catheterization performed. The surgeon had a surgical team waiting to perform an expected quadruple bypass and was quite puzzled that Pat's heart and arteries were like new. BG Leonard during his ministering to Pat remarked that he needed a new heart and replaced the old one with a new one when he ministered to him. This Wierwille clown I keep reading about must have been one lousy student of Leonard's, because even from a hospital bed at 94? he kicked butt.....

You might find the research library here the most complete info on TWI and their offshoots. Click on the Research tab down on the left side of the page at: http://www.excultworld.com/index2.htm 12-16-03 9:20 est

Posted on another website by another poster: Is jesus god? For those of us who were indoctrinated by TWI, the reflexive answer is that Jesus is not god. I was of that opinion at one time, but after rexamining TWI doctrines, have concluded that neither TWI nor the trinitarians are right in my opinion. I believe that somewhere in between both extremes may be the truth. Thomas said my lord and my god. Perhaps this hit the nail on the head better than the other two extremes. In TWI, making Wierwille their god was quite easy, yet making Jesus our god was considered somehow evil. Moses was god to aaron and joseph was pharoh to the egyptians. Perhaps this is how the relationship should be to Jesus. Jesus is our god(not THE GOD) and forget about the trinitarian explanation or TWI's version. Perhaps Jesus is our god and has that level of respect coming to him. Any other opinions?

I found this comparison of B.G. Leonard's ministry and V.P. Wierwille's enlightening. It is located at: http://www.waychrist.com/BG%20V.%20VPW.htm

Gee Mark, tell us how you really feel lol Very nicely put and dead on target. Well done!

Did I read it right that someone is still referring to VPW as not only Dr. but as our "father in the word"? I'm gonna hurl.... Lets see: 1) He purchased a fake doctorate, 2) He may have allegedly fathered illicit other children, 3) his PFAL class wasn't his. It was all stolen from other real men of God who lived before him. Will we next be reviving the molds of the bronze statue of that alleged "great man of a god"? Perhaps we can start chanting great is bronze DR. of the ohiowans, great is bronze Dr.... And bow down a little further in our worship of him and be like the Ephesians with their false gods of similar ilk. If the principle from the bible you teach are real, why don't you do the honest thing and recommend the teachers who VPW ripped off. Why don't you sell their books instead of the copies or regurgitations of the thief VPW's stuff??? I am gonna hurl this is so vile........