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templelady

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Posts posted by templelady

  1. Annam,

    What you seem to fail to realize or be unwilling to accept, is that fact that many of us here do not agree with what you

    1. HAve decided scripture says
    2. Have deciced scripture doesn't say
    3. Have decided is the correct course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture
    4. Have decided is the incorrect course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture

    YOu might find it easier here at GSC if you accepted that

    1. Scripture often speaks to different people in different ways
    2. Scripture and God often point out a different set of actions to different people in the same circumstances
    3. God treats all his children as the individuals he created, speaking to each in a manner they best understand, and appointing tasks to each that will best assist each individual in advancing spritually.

    This does not mean that there are not abosolutes in God's thinking, Adultery, Murder, Worshiping of idols, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are absolute NO's yesterday, today and tomorrow.

    But much of the rest of life has as great deal to do with location, time, events, and the individual as to the "correct" way to go.

    Per God and Jesus Christ, we ARE NOT the judges of another's walk. We can disagree, we can state why we disagree, we can state how we would react, we can state why we would react that way, but to add to any of these the caveat that this is how God says it is to be done, is IMO, wrong except if it is clearly stated as opinion.

    Even when a person commits, say, adultery, while we would be right to say God views adultery as a sin, we would be wrong if we claimed to know what God wants the Aldulterer to do in terms of steps toward repentance, and getting back in fellowship. The steps to the goal will be different on a case by case basis and between God and the individual.

  2. Here are some links I found:

    the first gives a case by case profile of some agregious cases of prosecutorial misconduct, along with police, judges and expert witness who have also tried to circumvent the truth.

    http://www.truthinjustice.org/p-pmisconduct.htm

    The second has a state by state breakdown of cases that were overturned by reason of police, DA or judicial "errors"

    http://www.justiceworks.info/index.php?mod..._position=60:56

    This last has an interesting way of starting an e-mail list to form an action group for people who want to change the laws regarding our judiciary system. I put it in just as an example of what a concerned citizenry might accomplish.

    http://lawmall.com/abuse/

  3. The reason I care about Mr. Nifong and his punishment, irregardless of the fact he resigned the day before punishment was pronounced, is because I have deep concerns aboput the way our judicial system operates.

    Many of us here have other concerns regarding what is happening not only with Nifong, and a certain pantless judge, but in courtrooms across this country.

    If a poster thinks a topic is nothing to be concerned about they can simply ignore that topic. What posters starting the threads think, mean and intend can only be learned from those posters since they is the only one, besides God, who knows what they are thinking. So if a poster who starts a topic tells me that they did not intend for that topic to be a political discussion I take them at their word.

  4. Had my degree well before the TWI years, thank God. To me any religious or secular organization that hinders or otherwise campaigns against people getting the highest degree of education they can is wrong.

    People who have an education, are better equiped to hold a job, raise a family, think and analyse, and support those around them.

    Education is not confined to a four year degree. If you want to be a carpenter, then an apprenticeship with the best carpenter you find is a worthy goal, trade school, night classes, correspondence classes from an accredited school, getting you GED if necessary are all praiseworthy efforts that should be pursued even if doing so means some sacrifice on your part.

    Whether you attend classes as part of career objectives or simply to gain more knowledge in an area of interest, the discipline and study habits you learn as you pursue your goals are two of the most valuable traits any of us can possess.

    Just another of TWI short sighted policies

  5. Here are my notes from a teaching some time in the late 1980's... meaning it was part of my corps training.

    I kid you not... these are genuine actual notes from a teaching. And back then I took notes almost verbatim.

    I read them now and just can't believe I swallowed it all: hook, line, and sinker!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HUPOTASSO

    Hupo - a motion from the underside

    Tasso - to appoint; determine, or ordain... "to determine to submit"

    [literally] -- loving obedience by proper arrangement and deliberate decision

    There are 40 occurances in the New Testament of this word

    This is the number for probation/trial period (40 days and nights, 40 years of wandering...)

    As was pointed out by a previous poster I'll go with the number forty as the number of times isn't as relevant, IMO, as what we learn form the various verses.

    A believer must prove that they can walk in submission in ALL categories of life before they can be called spiritually mature. (to grow up in Christ is to "mature").

    Christ was the only person that was able to submit in all categories of life. To look at it another way, a perfect life is the result of ALWAYS submitting to God's definition of what is right. None of the rest of us, as far as I am aware, have ever accomplished this. Striving for perfection is not the same as having attained perfection.

    There are no shortcuts. It takes first-hand experience to know the benefits, attacks, growth, and necessity of submission. If you don't understand these things, you cannot lead people.

    All it takes to "lead" is to have followers.

    I remember when my boss called me in the office to have a discussion about some of my behavior which he felt was exhibiting a bad example for our residents to follow.

    Boss: "whether you like it or not, many people here regard you as a leader of sorts."

    Me: " just because they are following me doesn't make me a leader- it just means they have poor judgement in selecting who they will follow."

    I was wrong of course, if someone is following your words or actions you are a leader, like it or not. Submission or not. In TWI it appeared to me that the leaders, for the most part, were the very people who failed to submit to to ethics and moral values shown in the Bible

    Who submits? According to the Bible:

    believers submit to God and His Word

    Yup God's Word, not leadership's interpretation of same

    believers submit to leadership

    Believers are to submit to leadership that is of God. The Bible is replete with directives on how to know the good shepards from the wolves. Leaders who do not themselves adhere to the Word of GOd are not to be followed in the religious arena.

    believers submit to other believers

    Depends on the situation, and if what you are being asked to submit to is what God wants for your life. This last is important, even good actions are not good if they are contrary to what the Lord has revealed to you concerning what He wants you to do.

    youngsters submit to elders

    True unless abuse is involved and then youngsters have a right to turn to other adults for aid. They also have the right to disregard elders who are asking them to do things which would result in disobiedience of the child's parents. They are to be respectful in refusing, polite, and non confrontational, but have the right to say "my parents do not allow that."

    children submit to parents

    See first part of last response

    wives submit to husbands

    Yes, the husband is head of the house--the exceptions would be in case of abuse of herself or her children, or criminal activity.

    devil spirits submit to believers

    Yes

    We all submit to someone or something CONSTANTLY. (to bosses, to our physical bodies, to the laws of the land, etc.)

    Think of the chaos that would ensue if we didn't willingly submit.

    Submitting to the direction of one's boss is not the same as having to submit to a leader who is not related by blood, part of your employment, or a member of law enforcement, especially if that leader is demanding you work for them for free, give them money you can't afford to give, or submit to abusive and potentially illegal activities.

    Submission is in the mind. It requires controlling your thinking to the end that it becomes your heart's desire to submit LOVINGLY (by proper arrangement). Acts 2:42 --> 1)Actions 2)Respect 3)Results!

    True, as stated

    The Key to Submitting:

    When you are given a directive, IMMEDIATELY drive your mind to think of how it CAN be done, and not to why it cannot be done, or why it should not be done. That is negative. Ask yourself, "How can I accomplish the thing that is set before me?"

    "I was only following orders" . Only a very foolish person does not stop to consider the propriety of a directive, no matter who is issuing it. God expects us to use the minds He gave us to make decisions about good and evil and then follow only the good.

    WHAT IT IS NOT...

    Submission is not a list of "thou shalts" dictated from one person to another.

    It is the result of people working together to reach an agreement on the Word (being like-minded).

    Where is the believing if you are not like-minded? Not working on a common goal?

    This is double speak at its finest. What besides a list of "thou shalts" were 98% of the directives handed down by leadership? Again we are faced with reaching an agreement on "the Word", with what the Word says being defined by leadership, so as to support their position.

    What gets in the way of LOVING submission?

    FEAR! "What if the person I am submitting to is wrong?"

    No, a common sense question that God expects me to ask and find the answer to before I proceed

    1) Fear is ALWAYS wrong, so you are already doing the wrong thing by going down this path.

    Fear is an emotion given us by GOd as an early warning system of things that are wrong and/or dangerous

    2) See the Christ in people: expect them to get it right (pray for them daily: for your leadership, for the ministry)

    Agreed. Whether leadership themselves succeeded in this arena is a discussion for another day.

    3) Overseers, it is your job to believe in the Christ-in-you to get it right... you are submitting to God's Word.

    Agreed. with the caveats mentioned before concerning the interpretation of God's Word.

    FEAR! "Submission is confining, binding, stifling..."

    Sometimes it is--another part of that early warning system mentioned before

    1) Growth is limited without a proper framework providing direction and support

    Agreed

    2) Put your heart and soul into obeying and you will see the results

    Agreed. But never lose sight of the fact that bad ideas make bad results

    If there IS a mistake, God will cover it... it is NOT your business; NOT your responsibility.

    Funny, my Scriptures tell me that my actions are my business and my responsibility. If I choose to put my brain in park and willy-nilly follow every directive that comes down the pike, without ever stopping to think about whether saids directies are good or bad and the ramifications of doing them, I cannot expect my Heavenly Father to be permenently on call to clean up my mess. Heavenly Father frequently spares us from the consequences of our mistakes, that is called grace. Grace does not however mean we can continue to go blindly through life. As Paul put it "should we sin more so that grace may abound?"

    1st Occurance of Hupotasso: Luke 2:51 (context starts in verse 42) --> Subject to them

    The results are seen in v52 --> you can see how obedience brought blessings and avoided hurts.

    This kind of obedience starts in the physical realm when we are children. The actions are obvious. The results are obvious.

    It grows as we grow in Christ into the spiritual world, which is very subtle.

    Look where God lists disobedience to parents: Romans 1:28-32

    Look at the "company" this sin keeps... the worst!!

    Obedience is VERY important to God.

    God expects obedience, not excuses.

    Sometimes our disobedience is due to immaturity. We mess up, but we will do better next time.

    Sometimes our disobedience is due to a cluttered mind. We "heard" but didn't fully listen, remember, and obey.

    The solution is to be quiet, to watch, to learn, and to obey next time.

    By always putting the Word first in our thoughts, by submitting one to another in loving obedience by proper arrangement and deliberate decision, we will experience the benefits and see growth in our lives.

    It sounds so good, so spiritually "right on". And it is on the surface. It isn't the idea of submission, or the scriptures that support the ideas that are wrong. It is the interpretation of submission by TWI which was used to make the believers do things which if they had reflected on first they would have known were not of God. And the saddest part of all was that TWI used intimidaton to promte the Fear they were deriding to get the rebellious to submit.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Okay, I have to go lie down now... I feel sick.

    I get sick everytime I realize that my own lack of using the brains the good Lord gave me have caused so much pain to so many people. TWI was at fault for their twisting of scripture, I was at fault for taking the easy way and submitting when I should have rebeled

  6. Yep, we have a definite problem with judges in this country too.

    Like I posted earlier we need to get clear on what we want from our court system. Any lawyer or other officer of the court will be the first to tell you that the justice system in the arena of a trial is not about, justice, fairness, or even the truth--rather the outcome is dependent on which side presents the best "story" to the jury.

    We need to get rid of the notion that Average Citizen needs to be feed specially tailored sound bites of the truth because otherise it will be too confusing. We need to stop allowing lawyers to prevent information being presented to the jury simply becuase it disagrees with their story version as opposed to whether it is the truth.

    As it stands now, every day in this country DA's go before judges to prevent already convicted defendants from having DNA analysis performed on samples from their cases. Why is this? What can a DNA test do? It might show that the defendant is guilty. It might show that others were involved. It might show that the defendant is, heaven forbid!, innocent.

    If it is either of the last two, it means that the prosecution messed up, either by the deliberate withholding of evidence, the suppression of evidence, or inadequate investigation. You would think that freeing the innocent would be the top priority for any officer of the court, but in this country this is not the case.

    The insanity that is our legal system needs to stop!!

    Anyone who has the power to influence 12 people in such a way that an innocent person could be convicted or a guilty person goes free, needs to be held to the highest standards of truth and ethical conduct. It should be completely irrelevant as to which side, the defense or the prosecution, "wins" a trial. The criteria should be that the innocent go free and the guilty are punished. Anything that impedes or prevents this from happening should not be allowed in the legal system.

  7. Thanks all, I am much calmer today, my Dr here has hopes we can locate a surgeon and have the surgery performed within the next two weeks. Meanwhile I trudge on, 428' today with 112' feet with nothing and the remainder with a cane. I will walk out of here :dance: , I will be healed :love3: , I will return to my life :rolleyes: .

  8. Nifong deserved to be disbarred. It is my hope that this case may open up other DA's to such disciplinary action. For a long time I have observed that DA's are alllowed unbelievable leeway in distorting, withholding or otherwise disregarding the truth.

    I have had first hand experience of DA's presenting evidence that they knew to be false and concocting scenarios made out of "whole cloth"

    There is no way that a person can expect a fair trial unless lawyers are held to the strictest standards when it comes to the truth. As it stands now a DA and most defense attorneys are "held harmless" for the most outrageous of conduct. It is sad to realize that if Mr Nifong had first, not deliberately withheld evidence and second, confined his inflamatory remarks to within the courtroom, he would not have been held accountable for any of his actions.

    It is time that we as a people recognized that it is not a requirement under our system of jurisprudence for the DA to be concerned with presenting the truth, instead the job of a DA is to successfully prosecute those who have been deemed "enemies of the state". An "enemy of the state" is anyone arrested, and charged.

    A DA can withhold knowledge about potential witnesses and evidence that may exonerate the acused as long as he has no intention of using the evidence or witnesses himself.

    Say it comes to the DA's attention that a man was walking his dog by the side of a lake during the time period a body was supposedly dumped there. Under the laws of most states the DA is not required to notify the defense of this witness unless the DA plans to call the witness. If the witness says he saw a blue van instead of the red station wagon the defendant drove, the DA is not required to divulge this information or present it in court. It is the job of the defense to ferret it out, or in other words, just get lucky.

    Trials need to stop being thought of as contests between lawyers, which is how they are viewed by the lawyers now, and start being about the truth. All the truth, no matter where it leads or how it affects the win loss ratio of the attorneys. All information that comes to the attention of either side, all witnesses that come to the attenton of either side need to be disclosed to all parties on either the prosecution or defense teams. Failure to do so whether, by destroying, hiding, failure to ask for, or any other device designed to circumvent this happening should be vigourously prosecuted each and everytime it occurs.

    The judicial system should be separate from the political system. Governors, mayors and other government leaders should never be allowed to bring pressure to bear on DA's to prosecute. DA's should never use cases for their own self promotion. The same is true of defense lawyers. There only two parties who should be the focus are the victim and the accused. Both the victim and the accused can only be benefited by the complete truth, convictions gained by less than this which result in the innocent being found guilty or the guilty allowed to go free do not avenge the victim rather just create new victims.

    The practice of law is a career, politics is a career. If you want to be a politician the number of cases tried, number of sucessful prosecutions and/or number of sucessful defenses should not be allowed to be used in campaigning. If we take the political benefit out of the equation, demand that all witness and evidenciary knowledge be devulged to both sides, enforce failure to do so with fines and disbarment we just may be able to regain trust in the judicial system.

  9. If you are talking specifically about why the "About The Way" forum continues to revist topics on a regular basis, then here is a possible answer.

    Most of the people here at GSC suffered abuse of some sort or another at the hands of TWI or are still suffering.

    You don't find many people who would tell a fifty year old woman that she should "get over" being repeatedly raped by her father for 10 years. It is accepted that this event leaves life long residue in her life. Some of that residue is easier for her to put in perspective than others, but that life event will always influence at some level decisions she makes in certain areas of her life.

    For some of us healing comes when we find we are not alone in our sufferings. for some of us healing comes when we find a place where we can vent as much and as often as we want. For some of us healing comes when we are able to comprehend the why behind the abusers actions. For some of us healing comes when we can help others who are in the place now we once were. For some of us healing comes when we find out that rather than being "crazy" we are actually on of many with the same experience and reactions. For many healing is a combination of some or all of the above and others I haven't mentioned or thought of.

    All of us, because we are individuals, are more prone to being hurt by certain behaviors than by others. All of us, because we are individuals, react differently to a given situation. This means that some people experience deep scars from an incident where another may be able to brush off the same incident with little difficulty. Some of us tend to "take the bull by the horns" when dealing with life's problems, some of us tend to retreat.

    It is highly presumptuous for anyone to decide that another has had "long enough" to "get over it". This does not mean that we as friends are not allowed to point out methods by which help may be found in the "moving on" Process. This does not mean that we as friends cannot say "you need to get a handle on this and move forward, you are in a pit". What it does mean is that we as friends and fellow voyagers in this life have a responsibility to approach the scarred with compassion and empathy as well as "tough love" where needed.

    GSC was established first and foremost, as a place where the goings on of TWI both bad and good could be examined and discussed. This site brings answers and healing to many. As long as I feel a need for my participation, as long as I see that there are still people wresting with what happened in their lives, as long as I feel my interaction with my fellow posters may help them heal or understand, I will continue to post here.

    If any poster feels that this site or the "About The Way" forum in particular is of no use thay have the right to state such or avoid it all together. What they do not have a right to do, IMO, is denegrate other posters who wish to participate for whatever reasons

  10. Is the moon making us all wacky or just hypersensative?????

    Larry asks a simple question about the existence or non-existence of a particular study

    Then his motives are questioned as to why he would want to know.

    The value of the study, if it exists, is questioned.

    He is given some links which probably aren't exactly what he was looking for

    Larry becomes frustrated, everyone else becomes frustrated, and the "slam fest" is on.

    Having myself been guilty of the same kind of behavior here at GSC on more than one occassion, this is not an "I am better than the rest of you" observation. I am merely suggesting that perhaps all of us MYSELF especially, need to stop and think before we jump to conclusions about the motives of people posting unless the motive is clearly spelled out by the poster. Because sometimes knowledge is sought simply because, for whatever reason, our brain has formulated a question that just won't go away.

    So let us cut each other some slack, OKAY :rolleyes:

  11. In Alaska any adult may perform one wedding a year. This makes getting married just a matter of a license, and a few friends. Another anomally of Alaska law: if you get a marriage license you are considered married even if the license never gets turned in as long as you can produce one person who witnessed the ceremony.

    This last was discovered by friends of mine who failed to send in the license after the ceremony. Five years down the road, when everything went south, they were packing to go their separate ways and they found the, still unsent, license. The couple decided to just shred the unsent document and carry on since clearly the state had no record of the marriage they figured they could forgo the legal hassels and money for a divorce. They were shocked when, a few weeks later while finishing tying up loose ends over property matters, they discovered that even though the license was never received the state considered them married and a divorce would have to be obtained. As the Clerk of Courts said to them, " if not receiving a license in the mail meant people weren't married- half the people in this sate aren't married!"

    This is even more crazy when you know that Alaska does not recognize Common-law marriages.

  12. Sexual predators are just that, predators. A predator, all things being equal, chooses where he lives and works in large part based on how close prey is.

    In the wild that means lions, and cheetahs follow and live around antelope herds. In the case of child molesters that means not only being around children but being ALONE around children.

    A sure fire method of gaining access to children, other than your own or close family members' in a solitary situation is by entering a profession that will allow you access. Teachers, religious leaders, doctors, children activity leaders (ie Boy Scouts) all have this kind of opportunity. Couple that with the fact that most of us have a certain degree of reverence and respect for those people involved in these occupations and you have a tailor-made situation. Children are taught to respect and obey these authority figures. Most of us, even in this day and age, don't spend time in angst over whether or not our minister etc. is a child molester.

    If the molester is able to gain the trust of the parents, and since this is essential to the predators success they are experts in gaining parental trust, then the likelihood that said parents will entrust their children to them is highly probable.

  13. Sudo is right--it hasn't ruptured yet!!

    I am calmer. The appointment nurse is busy trying to get me scheduled at Providence Hospital for surgery ASAP.

    I have talked to the social worker here and she says they will definitely hold my room here for 5 days and arraingments can be made for longer. I have made it clear, that having experienced the after surgery care at Providence Hospital and the care here at Providence Extended Care Center, I want to be back here as quickly as possible. I figure one day for surgery and three days for them to make sure the stiches are holding etc. Then I can come back here and finish up recovery from the latest surgery and then resume learning to walk etc.

    This surgery will not be as traumatic as the last one. It won't be rushed under emergency conditons. I heal fairly quickly and have already made up my mind that I will be pushing myself to sit on the edge of the bed etc. so they will discharge me back to PECC quickly.

    When I came here from Providence the first time I could barely feed myself and was totally helpless in ALL other areas. That was the 13th of March. Now, aside from the walking issues, I do practically everything necessary for my care by myself or with very minimal assistance. Coming back to the computer lounge, just now from PT, I walked 175 feet with one of the therapists at my side without a cane or other assistance. I wobbled twice but stayed on my feet. In addition, I have lost 60 lbs plus my blood pressure is now 114/61 as opposed to the 142/90 it was in March. I think that because I am much better physical shape and have a much better mental attitude this surgery should go pretty well.

    Thank you all for your prayers, support and love. Unless you have been in the kind of situation that I have found myself in during the last 4 months, you really have no idea just how much the knowledge that others care about you does for your general physical and mental well being

    God bless you all, my friends

    Maureen "mo"

  14. THe doctor just talked to me--THe results of the MRI are in

    I have a narrowing in the spine that might be causing the numbness

    the bad NEWs

    I have another aneurysm on the aorta that ruptured.

    I am stunned, in shock, and plain scared.

    Trying to set up surgery ASAP.

  15. Having known God before TWI, (although not always on speaking terms with my Heavenly Father, and that had all to do with how certain ministers outside of TWI portrayed Him and nothing to do with who Heavenly Father actually is) it wasn't so much a matter of finding God after I left TWI as to listening to Him.

    This isn't to say that it didn't take many years before I found the place where I feel loved, accepted and can continue to grow spiritually on a daily basis, because it did -twelve years to be exact.

    Having had a solid Christian upbringing; with Church, Sunday School, and church sponsered activies being a weekly routine; meant that TWI was not my first introduction to Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Even though I still disagree with some of the ideas presented by various ministers pre-TWI, the fact I had a foundational understanding of spritual matters before TWI meant that I was not completely spiritually adrift when I left.

  16. People should be allowed to wear whatever they want. If their choice of clothing allows body parts that the law says should be covered to be uncovered, then those laws which address this problem should be brought to bear.

  17. I babysat for the first time when I was eight. I sat on my neighbors patio with her new born who was sleeping in an old fashioned pram while my mother, 20 feet away, weeded a flower bed in our yard. His mom was home from the store in under 30 minutes and the little angel never woke up.

    My first paying job was selling Avon door to door when I was 16.

    Then during the summers while going to college I worked as a maid in a motel. I guess this would be my first real job, with a boss and a paycheck.

  18. Outcome A - The Human.

    Based on the descriptions you chose, you are practical, reliable, friendly, and fit in with people quite nicely. You probably have a regular family and do well in acedemia.

    All I have to say is-- if my family passes for "regular", unless they are talking about certain physical functions of the human body, we are in serious serious trouble as a species

  19. VPW was a sociopath.

    If what he was doing was good for him, no matter how it affected anyone else it was right.

    If what was being done in any way made him angry, feel bad, or not make him feel good, it was bad.

    Very clear black and white logic

    VPW good

    Others bad

  20. The customized version of the Brainwashing Quiz:

    1. When the Bible is being discussed among your (non-TWI) friends, do you continue to believe that you know more than anyone else about the subject?

    NO

    2. Do you still think that people who believe in the Trinity are "idolatrous" and therefore have forfeited their chances for eternal life? NO How about their "crowns in heaven"? NO

    3. Do you hang on to the idea that all negative things come from the devil?Sort of

    4. Do you avoid wearing a cross around your neck or having one as a wall decoration in your home? NO

    5. Is your first reaction to a difficult situation to speak in tongues - silently, in your mind - rather than to immediately pursue a solution to the problem? NO

    6. Do you think environmentalists are nature-worshippers? Not in a the sense of being a "pagan" religion

    7. Do you use a wooden spoon as a "rod of correction" on your child? NO

    8. When you experience failure, do you begin to re-trace your recent past in order to identify where you "blew it" spiritually? Sometimes

    9. When considering whether an idea or event is valid, is the Bible your ultimate reference point for truth? Depends on the idea

    10. If you encounter a mentally ill person, does you "diagnosis" of that person include the name of a devil spirit? NO

    11. When you pray, does each sentence of the prayer begin with ... "Thank you father"? NO, well sometimes, still working to erase this one

    12. Do you believe that when a Christian husband and wife disagree, the wife should submit? Not if you mean "submit" as in admitting her postion is invalid

    13. When someone is very very very successful at what they do, do you consider that this might be because of an affiliation with the Adversary? NO

    14. Do you find yourself rejecting any perspectives from other religions? NO

    15. Do you believe that babies are not alive until they take their first breath? they aren't aLiive until they take their first breath, but I consider them as human from the point that they can survive out of the womb. Since medical science has saved infants born after as little as 5 months in the womb, this window between fetus and human has grown smaller and smaller

    16. Does it still matter to you how many were crucified with Christ? NO

    17. Is your life patterned more after the Epistles than the Gospels? No

    Add up your "yes"s and "no"s. If you have more "yes" answers than "no" answers, you are still brainwashed, and TWI still has a grip on you.

    Ten No's

    Zero Yes's

    and seven somewhere in betweens

  21. Other Christian churches are not as all encompassing as TWI.

    Any other church, can become the focal point of a person and/or their families lives. You can by choice limit yourself to only associating with those who are of your faith, only attending church functions, reading, listening, or viewing only church sanctioned books, music , tv, and movies. You can vote for only those that encompass your belief system, you can even find work with others of your faith. But in most churchs, this extensive interaction is optional.

    TWI and other groups of its ilk, took the voluntary out of the process. For those in the 90's especially, TWI was so pervasive in the lives of its followers, that my understanding is that they even had to have a written down scheduled time for sexual relations with thier spouses and they then had to submit said schedules to their leadership for approval.

    This kind of life, leaves no room for any "outside" involvement in any arena. Leaving this kind of organization means that it is not just chunks of your life that are being surrendered, but your entire life for the duration of your involvement.

    TO have years of your life thus wrenched away is very traumatic. It is also impossible to explain to someone who has not experienced the same thing. Thus GSC is one of the few places ex-TWI can come and not have to spend hours explaining the who, what, and why, of the organization that is TWI but can just come right to the point of their particular issues.

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