Lifted Up

On 6/29/2019 at 10:07 AM, Kathy Niclaus said:

Yeah, I'm going there. WTF, I had to listen to how evil it was for twenty years, and then pretty much continued to believe it was unnatural for over another decade plus.

I listened for less time then you but continued to believe it for longer, i.e. around three decades.  My waking up on this subject, as on a few other things, started with my best survivor friend's account of a very caring friendship she had had in the past. This friend eventually died of AIDS. But I quickly learned in real time that her testimony, and her friend's caring, was real., mainly thrugh other friends I met through her. And, even before my mnd was really changed, the seeds were planted, unintentionally, by the hate spewed in LCM's rants.

I was led to believe in the Way and Way Corps that gays and lesbians did not have the capacity for real care and compassion. I was very wrong. I see lots of it, and benefit from some of it.

1 hour ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

I just found this in my  email spam folder. If you were talking about me I am no longer involved with CFFM and have not been to their fellowship center since 2006 as I stated.  However if you're currently being sexually abused I would definitely encourage you to report it to the police if it's appropriate.

spam? That's an interesting one. I had made a modesty lengthy post that vanished. Let's just say for now I forgot to enter the post, though I am awfuly sure I did. No, I became involved in TWI in 1975, entered the 8th corps, and my sexual assault happened in 1979. I just fully recalled it in the fall of 2017, though I began to remember it as a "minor event" around the time Kristen Skedgell published he book and when, for a couple years, I was by far the most prolific poster on her blog, "Thriving Reality"'  A bit later Kristen moved beyond talking about her Way time publicly, but I came across a wonderful non-Way non-cult person who took her place as my best survivor friend,.In the last year and a half I have acquired plenty of recovery resources so I'm not appealing to anyone to take their place. In fact, my recovery resources are intentionally non-Way, because I see little compassion for the hurting among those who promote and/or teach the "love of God" the same "way" as was done in The Way. That includes the "splinter" groups; do any acknowledge Wierwille's misdeeds without passing them off as irrelevant to them?

What did "loosening up" mean?

I will make a short version of y reply which was in here. But I know my main sexual assaulter is one of those who ignores hurts and carries on with wonderful sounding words and prayers in the one she is in.

On 5/31/2019 at 9:35 AM, Infoabsorption said:

Years ago when VPW's indiscretions were starting to come out in the open, I remember hearing phrases like "I didn't like his flesh, but he sure could teach some hot Word". I guess it's the same with failed prophecies. A lot of these people admit VPW had weaknesses but they seem to justify their admiration of him by his ability to teach the "Word".

I find it hard to accept "The Word" taught inor out of The Way, if it had its roots in, never mind how long ago or by whom or how good sounding and "non-cultic" the teaching. In The Way all looked down on anybody not from the Way who promoted Christ and I know that trend continues, Way or splinter. Just like Thw Way...and what was once my favorite restaurant...was founded "for the glory of God"....by prolific abusers and sexual assaulters...and rapists.  Do any, Way or splinter, acknowledge that that happened without demeaning survivors?

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 12:44 PM, chockfull said:

Wow - if I am to understand this correctly, here is some background information to what LCM experienced and taught others too during his "VP and Me" gag inducing teachings.

So dictor tries to accost a young woman on coffee crew, invites her up to the motor coach, then gets rebuffed.   After this he teaches the top Way leadership that they need to "loosen up" in the sexual category and specifically references the victim who rebuffed him.   

To be quite clear, what dictor meant by "loosen up" was adultery and sexual assault, sometimes drugged.    In modern terms, a white Fundamentalist Bill Cosby.

My sexual assault, at the hands of two women, was followed by me retreating across to my side of the trailer, and burying myself in my top bunk, but awake. Meanwhile, the two women involved told one or two of the corps guys on my side about the "event". For some reason, no doubt partly because they came in after "lights out", they had no idea I was already there, still, silent, and awake. they started talking to the others about it, and somebody said that it was good for me to be loosened up. So quite right about the meaning. No. VPW didn't do anything on that coach invite, just worked away while I snacked on the pastry. I never heard that he went for males like he did for the women.

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:55 PM, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Remember, all the women I mentioned were single, unmarried, and therefore, in dictor’s perverted mind, “property of the King” as dictor said they were in the Old T., referring to Saul, David, Solomon and then the long line of the Kings of Judah and Benjamin in the south and the Kings of the 10 northern tribes, united under the name Israel. Which, when critically examined put EVERY king of Israel in the immediate and untenable position of breaking 3 or 4 of the 10 Commandments (most notably, “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.”, and, “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”) including, in most cases, Thou shalt not lie, and Thou shalt not commit murder! That meant if dic’s “rightly-dividing” was indeed right, every king of Israel should have been put to death!

Which I guess explains why this male, on my only private invitation into the coach (at Emporia) got only a pastry to eat. (He invited me when he observed me working alone as coffe crew king). But didn't "the king" apply to any "man of God"?  Evidently we "Men of God" (corps men) were supposed to "loosen up" sexually so we could claim our rightful...well, our "rights" to get our "needs met". Thus my sexual assault at HQ during my last residence year. And I overheard that term "loosen up" used specifically about me right after the "event". I can only speculate if prolific abuser Victor Barnard was  treated that way, but probably "cooperated".

1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

Gosh Lifted Up, I hope you didn’t take offense from my crass pun... after I read your recent post of a past experience on Unraveling Cult Indoctrination I wish I had not made such an insensitive joke from your post here. Please accept my apology...I hate it when my sarcasm causes collateral damage.

You have obviously adopted on of my skills of winding up apologizing for thinking I said the wrong thing! No offense taken. But maybe I gave you that impreression, so maybe I SHOULD apologize LOL. I suppose I could see your wondering more if I were an actual victim in that coach...but even then I always look at intent. My "event" came at the hands of two corps women at HQ. And for corn sakes, don't go by my old old old ancient waybrained posts from over ten years ago...i.e. pre-"Losing the Way".

22 hours ago, T-Bone said:

I think so...that’s why they used shag carpet in the motor coach .

LOL. I don't remember from my only visit in 1978. Maybe because I only got a pastry there? (He invited me in after seeing this lifelong non coffee drinker run the coffee crew. I wasn't sexually assaulted there; that was later at HQ)

On 5/8/2018 at 1:17 AM, Rocky said:

Living free! 

Yep. And if this is for newbies, can returning oldies use the info too?

1 hour ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Penworks, great post!  I think I probably had a "causal involvement with TWI."  When I left TWI, I felt nothing.  But, I understand why some people had serious problems leaving.  I feel for those people who ended up with drug, and alcohol problems.  I think when I was in, 1978-1988, TWI fulfilled a need for me to belong.  I think if I had had a happy childhood, I would not have been an easy recruit for a cult like TWI. Perhaps others feel the same.  I know many of the people I knew in TWI, had difficult childhoods. 

When your body leaves, and your mind is still in, you may not feel traumatized at the time, but it may come back and hot you decades later. It can be a mixed bag, with great feelings of relief at thinking for yourself being accompanied or followed by feelings not as good. I think my awakening got going slowly more than a decade ago, then was given a huge push by a fellow 8th corps account of her abuse and sexual assault...you can guess who I mean.  Then I came across others, including my best survivor friend...completely non-Way and non-cult...whose support helped me remember my sexual assault and break my silence about it last fall. Others have helped, not even with the aim of doing something for just me...e.g. not the least of whom is this Penworks person! (You might say she takes the Edge off our trauma!) Not to mention...okay, I am LOL...a lifelong friend of the survivor friend above, just by being an example with her great unconditional sensitivity to people, as opposed to what at times seemed like genuine caring in the Way, but which also seemed to hinge on one's loyalty to the group and doctrines.

So as not to ignore the rest of your post, my childhood was pretty good. Parents split up when I was a wee one (believe it or not, i WAS little once) but Mom was great, and we spent plenty of time with Dad while he was alive. I just got involved by a co-worker invite, and like many, was captured by the conditional care....the love bombing if you will...and there I was. Much better to have people care for you unconditionally...including one I should mention given all I have bared here, my counselor.

On 2/8/2018 at 6:37 PM, Twinky said:

Too right, Penworks! 

On 2/8/2018 at 6:04 PM, penworks said:

Breaking up is hard to do. Some people had a casual involvement in TWI. Others were encased in it like in an airtight plastic bag. Breaking free is HARD. I think it's a miracle any of us are here and able to compose a complete sentence. Maybe I should speak for myself, but truly, for those of us who were sold out for so long and gave so much, creating another life post-TWI has been VERY hard work and if it weren't for many good people (many are here on GSC), healing love, education, and time, I can't imagine what would have become of me...

 

Yea, too right. It is basic to trauma recovery that you don't compare someone's ordeal to someone else's. Even length of time in is included. Breaking free IS hard, especially when the attempt to break free only gets going 3 to 4 decades after your body has left. Some have no APPARENT problem adjusting; some have lots of them. This is not only true of cult life, but of any trauma, including sexual assault (I've had both). Maybe you should speak for yourself? Hell, just keep doing what you're doing because some are still finding their voice.

 

Does whitewashing have any relationship to sweeping the dirt under the carpet?

Just found out, after a 3 week vacation, that Psalmie passed away about a month ago. Will miss her.

BTW, I did the only actual work I ever did in a political campaign 50 years ago this fall in Columbus OH, for a losing candidate, though he was the incumbent. Maybe another reason to avoid politics!

It's time to remember again my first 8th corps roomie. And I also remember the day on Waydale chat that Groucho and I were first getting acquainted and we discovered our common link with Rummy...Groucho's being the stronger of course, but I have my memories also.

I acquires two facebook friends who are rather avid political posters, on opposite sides of the spectrum. It wasn't by design, but seeing their political posts (which are a majority for each off all their posts), I became more adamant than ever about staying out of politics on FB. I see their posts, and of course they are not targeting me personally, but most of their posts are designed to demonize the other side to the extent that I have to be a complete idiot and/or morally bankrupt to believe other than what their post says. Or to put it another way, black is made to seem as white an d vice versa...and this reminds me too much of my deprogramming. In the process, if I don't watch myself, I CAN draw unintended personal insults from these posts...the worst of these actually happened a few years ago here on Greasespot, though I kept my peace about it. I also think that, wierdly enough, my work as a baseball umpire during the summer helps me see both sides of an issue. Not that I don't have political opinions or don't think political results are unimportant. But I guess I'm naive (did I spell that right?)...in thinking we should be able to have political discussions with respect, but as this does not seem to be the case, I pretty much stay out of politics on FB. But, I keep those polical friends to help remind me of the reason.

So I stop back at the old tavern and the same ol' barflys are here!

Added a grandaughter to the family: Lily Kay Nice was born in January 2011 and lives in western Nebraska.

Well hi there OAK. What a break; my own visits are pretty rare.

These days a lot of the people I know keep adding grandkids!!!

Always good to see you, Oak.

You really need to get yourself a hobby, though, to occupy some of that free time.

Hey, at least he still works. What does retire mean anyway? Saw my former Big Brother (from the like named group) a couple weeks ago in the DC area for the first time in 38 years. He is 72 and still works (as a ploygraph expert...I can refer you!) And Oak likes people; who else would come up here to visit like he did years ago?

what did i say lifted up? i can't remember

and i'm glad you still love me

and where are her blogs and your responses?

and i wish you would keep going

Kristen's blog is at Losing the Way: Kristen's blog

I made my first post anonymously then all the rest with my name (Billy).

I was referring to the brief private exchange we had in which you told me you thought my deprogramming experience was worse than the crap you put up with because they were playing with my mind in the deprogramming. It was bad enough, but that factor was hardly absent in the abuse you took. However, true or not, it helped give me a perspective on how difficult it can be to live through then try to recover from trauma; physical, mental, or both.

I finally was able to purchase this book.

I know I am about four years late, but.....WOW!

All I can say is thank you kristen for putting into words what some of us have struggled for decades to understand and express. I admire your strength.

You're not late; you needed to read it now; I needed to read it four years ago.

Never underestimate the impact your own personal testimoney has had on others.

As I more or less said a few years ago, that's what generally has the real impact. And that is what Kristen gave, personal testimony, and not a lecture on others' experiences; she simply and plainly told us what happened to her. Perhaps I am much more sensitive to the difference, having had a lot of stuff shoved down my throat in a deprogramming.

As a bonus to me, not only did Kristen give her personal testimony, but as such, it rang a lot of extra bells. I was in the same state under the same limb leader during the same year for our "apprentice" corps year, then at Emporia during that first 8th corps residence year she spends so much time on. But the bells kept ringing after that time, all the way to the start of my final residence year at HQ when I went through my own minor sexual "incident", which for all of its minor nature, red flagged the much worse experiences that Kristen and excie and others went through.

Better not get going too much though or I won't be able to stop. You may not wanna hear me go on and on; besides, if you do, Kristen's blog posts are sprinkled very liberally with my responses over the last four years or so.

A few years ago, after Kristen's book came out, Excie told me something in a message related to her abuse and my deprogramming. What she told me was bull :) but I still love her for it.

Over a year since anyone posted here. Time to get a couple minutes at the top.

Hey, we may be a weird Corps, but we're certainly . . . enthusiastic!

I won't argue with either. Now, how many minutes is the 8th corps thread gonna be on top?

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. We lost Moses that night at 1 am. Funeal is Saturday with visitation tomorrow evening.