Lifted Up
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Posts posted by Lifted Up
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quote:
Oaks, had the statement been "I complied through fear", it would have been saying that that person, speaking for herself, complied through fear. By saying "we", it infers that all of us, every one of us, not just that person, complied through fear. That statement does not apply to me, at least not to any great extent, which was why I spoke up.Perhaps if folks would just relay their own experiences and not speak for others, we'd all understand each other better? I don't need folks to try to psycho-analyze what I experienced...I know myself what I experienced.
Oldies, I think I know where you are coming from. Saying "we" without defining who "we" are does seem to imply that Rascal is trying to apply her experience...as she says of being controlled in the name of the Word...to everyone.
In forming my interpretation, I think I have read enough posts from Rascal and others to feel safe in assuming that she was not trying to do that. There are others who have given record of some bad experiences, and I think she had them in mind when she used "we" instead of "I". It is very frustrating to be told that your experience is wrong...that it didn't happen. Therefore, I can see why you made this point. It just takes some effort sometimes to mentally put yourself in someone else's position and perhaps understand what they are saying.
Now, about choosing to be a victim, I assume the phrase in the JAL quote you used referred to choosing to let what happened to someone control their life. I mean, it couldnt mean choosing to be hurt, right, when Rascal and some others had no choice in what happened to them. Unless, of course, you have good reason to deny what they testified to happened to them. Or unless you accept that it happened, but are suggesting that they pretend it didn't happen. That is different than acknowledging that it did happen but not letting it ruin your life.
While I can't guarantee this, I have evidence gathered over the last four or so years on GS and Waydale that Rascal is not letting her bad experiences ruin or control her life. With all the running around and work needed to co-run a large family (and I know something about that) there is no way someone could be controlled by the experiences she has testified to and have things go as well as, to the extent I know, that they are going.
Perhaps these things are being talked about so that others, such as you and me, may know more. For example, having been yanked out of TWI in 1979 is one big reason I did not either experience or see some of these things. And no matter what anyone says about the root causes or early existence of any wrongs, there is no denying that there were big changes in day to day TWI life over the years.
Putting yourself mentally in someone else's position, which you can do while maintaining the integrity of your own experiences, always helps understanding. You are right; it sounded from that "we" alone like she was trying to paint her experiences as she describes them as everyone else's, including yours. However, a little effort in checking things out and doing what I mentioned above will work wonders. Then I suspect you would not be calling the reson for her testimony type A behaviour. Not that this by itself is the worst accusation in the world, but you are using it as your reason that she is either not telling the truth or is grossly exagerating due to "victim mentality"
Yes, the people who give testimonies also give their own interpretations of the reasons for the wrongs, which I do not always agree with. But there is nothing wrong with giving such interpretation, especially if the wrongs happend to them. I just prefer to read and seek out the testimony part, as I have tried to do for the last several years. I was bugged to no end by someone's judgement when someone told me I would have to accept their second hand account of some wrongs since if I didn't believe that, I probably wouldn't believe the personal testimony even if I had it. But I am still not going to reject someone's actual personal testimony...or what it means.
This is my first public post in over 3 months, and who knows how long it will be before the next...so if a further response is really wanted try PT or e-mail (smile092850@hotmail.com ).
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I'll come back for this one post which for more than one reason I would rather keep off the open forum. A good ex-Way friend has his birthday today, and I am thinking of him. I don't understand why contact has been deadened; just lots of guesses. He is not a GSer. Anyway, today is his day, and I pray that those close to him will make it a big day. Happy Birthday Lonnie!
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I left her speechless...
Oh well, this isnt her corps anyway...
nor mine...but gotta put some humility into the 9th.
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I finally got a look at these pictures. Hey, real people, not just screen names!
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Perhaps making the most of your personal contact when you are applying for a job will help. Of course, when you sell yourself, it's not letting them know how good you are, ala the old motivational techniques from the corps, but how much you want to work.
Okay, maybe you do that already. And even here, telling is not nearly as good as doing, though you have to get the chance to do first. But I think a most valuable asset in any job is an EAR to LISTEN to others, be they bosses or co-workers, be they interesting or boring. And, you certainly have an ear to listen. Someone is going to find that out.
OK, all this rambling is not doing you a bit of good probably. Better just go back to the original subject...ignore all the above and just know that I'll be praying for you both.
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Jerry posted...
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I'm just being honest and trying to set the record straight about the difference between "homophobia" and objectionable behaviour.
I'm not going to judge your efforts to do this, except to say you got too philosophical. Examples are always more effecient an illustration. If an ex-Way person wants to illustrate the difference between homophobia... and believing that homosexuality is not Godly, I do believe there is one example that stands out.
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Well, then, maybe we'd both better read your post again. Perhaps it is understandable if my interpretation of what you posted did not match what you were thinking when you made the post. But then I wasn't trying to decipher what you meant. I was making an honest attempt to read your post from the point of view of a victim, and that's how I saw it. In no way do I think that you believe it is Godly to forcibly rape (redundant, I know, but I need the emphasis) someone to satisfy someone's "needs". But in my (good or poor, don't know) attempt to read it from a victim's point of view, that's what it said very plainly.
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Your arm has my prayers.
So do you.
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Not forgetting.
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Mike posted...
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The false virtue of NON-sex is helped along by the real need to protect children from predators, but at the same time the nurturing of such predators is fueled in our culture by how broken sex has become and how so many go without their needs being met in that area.
Who says non-sex is a virtue? I believe, rather, that it has a lot to do with the setting.
But the real thing that grabs me is the line about "so many go without their needs being met in that area."
Mike, have you got your needs and wants parallel???
I need sex. It is Godly for me to go out and rape whom I choose, because even though there will be outrage at my act, that outrage is only culturally and not Godly based. Your statements plainly lead to that conclusion.
Is it Godly to hurt someone? If not, then put yourself in a victim's place (may be difficult) and picture yourself liking some of the acts here described done without your consent.
(BTW consent doesn't automatically make it right either IMO but that's another debate).
Probably the wrong choice of words...instead picture yourself not being hurt by someone touching you in the wrong place.
Tell us, what catastrophic thing happens to a man of God if he doesn't get his sexual needs met?
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You don't THINK I confused you but I used my considerable skill in this area to do so withouth your knowledge. OK, so instead let's say you just cant understand what I'm saying. Same thing. My fault.
My search involved nothing about this person in question. Much of my question referred to testimony that was presumably already given publically...since it was referred to as the gospel truth, I honestly wanted to see it if it existed.
In my early days on the ex-Way scane, on Waydale, I made a search along the same subject line and was rather successful...even beyond a rather well known case. I think I was successful because I honestly wanted to know and refused to deny anyone's testimony. After about 20 years out, I simply wanted to know what had been happening. Naturally confidence and trust played a big part there.
Although my current inquiries are along the same subject line, there is one very important difference; otherwise I wouldn't be making the effort. But if my effort gets nowhere, so be it, and it would serve neither me nor anyone else to persist. Perhaps I am nearing that point now.
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Yes, to be honest, I have an axe to grind, and there is a specific person involved, but my befef is more of a general one. Besides, I still have respect for the person involved.
I see often testimony subordinated to rhetoric when talking about the wrong things of TWI. Yes, a certain amount of anger and sarcasm is unterstandable considering what some people went through. But rhetoric doesn't impress me, having had it shoved down my throat during my forced exit (deprogramming).
When I see people talking...okay, posting...about what specifically happened to them, be it good or bad, that stands out. And when I am making an effort to find out what happened, to search out testimony presumably piublically given, and am told it is not available...or as I posted above, am told "you wouldn't believe it anyway" I begin to wonder if such testimony exists, or at least if it exists to the degree it is talked about by some.
So have I succeeded in confusing you further?
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It is what took place...what happened...to you, in TWI, in any other part of your life, in your life as a whole. And it can tell us a lot. Your story as told by YOU. That makes it believable. Not your story as told by someone else. Would I learn much by hearing someone else tell your lif'e story? Maybe I would learn some things. But it wouldn't have the authority of being real, because someone else can't tell the story of your life and say "this happened to me".
I have always been a supporter of people telling their OWN story...THEIR testimony...about what happened to them in TWI, as well as in the rest of life. I have stated quite a number of times that I will not deny someone's testimony. And since coming onto the ex-Way scene via Waydale a few years ago, I have actively sought peoples' own testimony...not opinions or rhetoric...to fill me in on what has gone on in TWI during all those years since I was yanked out at the end of 1979...and to some extent even during the time I was in. My door to testimony has always been open to the good and the bad.
Now I hear from someone that I don't need to hear a person's own testimony...that they can tell about the experience just as well as the person to whom it happened. I know this is the meaning, because I was told that if I don't believe their second hand account, then I wouldn't believe the person to whom it happened in the first place telling about it. That means, I guess, that to find out what went on, I have to listen to people going over all the bad...and good...that happened to others instead of hearing it from the people it happened to.
I suppose other have listened to the "my story" of someone and refused to believe it or discounted its significasnce. Which must make me guilty of doing the same, even before I have heard it.
Somewhere in here is a believability gap.
The irony of this is that the person who tells me this came out less than a year ago with what for a while I thought was the most the most telling personal (but publically made) testimony ever of something very bad that happened in TWI.
Until suddenly, when applied to general life, the same event changed its definition.
OK, enough rambling. But this forum I think could use more activity. Bring it on.
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As in the old hymm by Charles H. Gabriel, I know that He lifted me...from sinking sand, with a tender hand. Except He is still doing it, since I still find ways to get myself deeper into that sand. It is my way of reminding myself.
It is interesting to hear from those here how each chose as hasndle. It is yours...from your mind, your heart.
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At least three birthdays in the same month? We were more strategic in our planning (if you can believe that) in that we have our seven birthdays in seven different months. We do have some close ones. Our last two sons' are eight days apart, plus two years, and our younger daughter and I are 16 days apart, and never mind how many years.
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Anyone know anything about any of those guys??? I knew them well long ago at Indy.
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I dont think you have any idea...you werent around during THE original THE thread, were you?
Actually I did much of the retemorizing during my interim (WOW) year...at HQ I just worked on retaining it. And, I DID remember my shadow appointment with the top guy.
Pardon the interruption...
HEY, FELLOW 8TH....HELP ME HOLD OUR HONOR UP!!!!!
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Still three days to go, but I'm not gonna let someone's birthday thread slip to page 2 before the big day.
Happy Birthday!!!
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I like good news about people.
And, Kit, I like your post. I sing tenor.
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Since when is commitment mean being blabby? Some of us arent loudmouths.
Actually, when in residence, I spent so much time on my retemories I had no time to talk. I was known for this enough to be reproved by JT at one point for being able to remember so much verse but not my shadow appointment with him.
Oh, I've had my moments at times, though not too many around here remember my record posting on the original Waydale THE thread.
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Using the *word* to control....
in About The Way
Posted
Mandii dunno if you check your PTs much, so if you get a chance...
Just dont feel much like public posting these days.