The Trap

[Sushi]

*****POSTED BY ABIGAIL***** SORRY

I have been thinking about some of the differences between your more main stream churches and groups like TWI and CES. Now, I could be wrong on some of this, because I never have spent much time with a main stream church and all I know of CES is what I've read here.

One of the draws, for me anyway, to TWI was the notion that they could explain the Bible to me in a way that made sense. That they were basically a research ministry with little doctrinal error and with the meekness to correct doctrinal error when they found it. However, knowing what I know now, I would have to say groups like CES and TWI do have doctrinal error and correcting that error is not so easy. Point being, despite the claims, CES and TWI are not necessarily more "perfected" than the Methodists or Baptists or Catholics when it comes to doctrine, nor are they likely to ever be so. The reason for this is, any way you cut it, you still have people involved, Where there are people there will be mistakes, there will be "private interpretation".

Now, the drawback to groups like TWI and CES that does not exist in many (note I did not say all) mainstream churches. The trap. Your average churchgoer respects the minister or priest (the leadership). They expect them to have a better knowledge and understanding of the Bible than the average joe has. Many would even expect to receive good advice or counsel from them, should they be in need of it. BUT, what they do not expect, what they would not likely even tolerate, is for their minister, priest, pastor, to come into their homes and micromanage their lives. They would not tolerate being loudly reproved (read humiliated) if their home was not clean enough, for having a mortgage, if their kids were not quiet and obedient enough, etc.

Likewise, they are free to have friends and family from outside the church. They may disagree with some of the things their friends and family believe, or the choices they make, etc., but they love them and spend time with them. In other words, they are not isolated from people with different world views and beliefs.

However, with TWI and some of its spinoffs, for some reason, we tolerated the micro management, we allowed ourselves to become isolated and cut off from our families and our friends who were outside the group. [bTW, this is the classic m.o. for an abusive situation be it with a spouse, a family member, a religious organization, etc.]. When this set up takes place, we have placed ourselves in a very vulnerable position. The cherry on the ice-cream is, unlike most mainstream denominations, you are basically not allowed to disagree with your leadership.

You are at a serious disadvantage here. If you dare to disagree and speak up, you face the very real possibility of being marked and avoided. [something most mainstream denominations don't practice]. If you are marked and avoided, you are truly on your own, because you have no one left to turn to. Your other option is to disagree silently and pray no one catches on. However, this usually requires you to sell yourself out, to take actions that make it difficult for you to look yourself in the mirror. Or conversely, to not act when you believe you should. Over time, that too takes a huge toll on the individual.

It is a trap. It is the trap which has ultimately lead to the pain so many of us at the cafe have endured.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Sushi

[Dot Matrix]

Abagail

A huge AMEN!

Thanks for posting it Sushi

[socks]

Yah! Merry Christmas!

I always felt, in my own little personal brain view, that the Way and the essence of what it did got confused after a time. It was 'biblical research and teaching and fellowship' and a 'ministry', which is a kind of service. The 'fellowship' part to it wasn't actually part of the 'service' purpose of the Way, it was what participants at all levels of interest did together.

What it was not - an all-service, all-in-one, church. It had a specfic purpose, reason for being. That gave it a very flexible presence, in theory. The organized activities could change, everything about what people did that got involved could shape it, in there local 'fellowship'. In many ways, a greenhouse for supporting growth.

Well, in theory. CES advertized itself as a Christian Services ministry. That automatically tells me what to expect and not expect. In both the Way and a CES, it would IMO be completely reasonable and expected for people to be able to be members of other churches or organizations and not have restraints placed on them of any kind.

That lack of respect is so true. I got an auto shop to get a repair done. They do the repair, that's the service. Tire shop, buy a tire, They make recommendations. I decide, buy the tire. They do what they do but they don't sell me a car, insurance, issue licenses, design sound systems. They provide services and if it's good they're successful. If the mechanic yells at me for not rotating my tires and insists I'm a lousy driver and they're doing me a favor because they're the best in town, I don't go back. I expect them to do what they do, do it well and if they're 'nice', I'll go back.

I think your point is valid. A lot of ministries say one thing, do another, and don't stay on target as to what they want to do. And if the service is bad, they don't change, they tend to defend instead of trying to improve. It's inherent in their 'real' purpose, which is to tell people what to do, where, when and how. Real learning that stands up to the promises is minimal after the initial contact is made.

Edited December 24, 2006 by socks

[polar bear]

Sushi-Amen and amen. When the church starts to pry into family and personal matters, it's called-

CONTROL!

[oldiesman]

However, with TWI and some of its spinoffs, for some reason, we tolerated the micro management, we allowed ourselves to become isolated and cut off from our families and our friends who were outside the group. [bTW, this is the classic m.o. for an abusive situation be it with a spouse, a family member, a religious organization, etc.]. When this set up takes place, we have placed ourselves in a very vulnerable position. The cherry on the ice-cream is, unlike most mainstream denominations, you are basically not allowed to disagree with your leadership.

Depends on the individual. I don't see this as a "one-size-fit-all" occurrence.

But, I do like the terminology that it was "allowed" by the recipient.

Some of us never tolerated any micro-management or tolerated it at different times.

At times I did, at times I didn't.

You are at a serious disadvantage here. If you dare to disagree and speak up, you face the very real possibility of being marked and avoided. [something most mainstream denominations don't practice].

Oh yes they do.

Just try to go in and change any mainstream church's doctrines or practice. Really try.

They will ask you to leave, and if you push it, you'll be accused of heresy.