Teddy Roosevelt on "Critics".

[WordWolf]

Did Teddy Roosevelt say it was wrong to criticize?

If one chops up his quote, one might give that impression.

I used to see the quote hung up in college, when I went to play sports.

It was hung up in the sports area.

I also had/have a copy in calligraphy of the entire quote.

Here is the entire quote,

which is very easy to find online:

====================

“It is not the critic who counts,

not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled,

or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena;

whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;

who errs and comes short again and again;

who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions,

and spends himself in a worthy cause;

who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement;

and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly,

so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

~ Teddy Roosevelt

=================

Now you can see why this was placed where the athletes could see it.

This was a commentary on athletes who strived to perform their best,

and others who put forth their best efforts.

It was not a guarantee their "devotions" were correct just because

they strove for them-

it was an admonition to those who never put forth efforts yet

found nothing BUT criticism for those who did.

There is a right and wrong way to criticize,

just as there is right and wrong criticism.

If one only used 1/2 his quote, one might give the false impression

that he meant ALL criticism is wrong.

That would be incorrect, and not wholly honest.

[Jim]

Yawn.

So what? In my opinion, athletics is pretty much a worthless endeavor in any case. Sure, it teaches commitment and excellence to youth, but there are other ways. And for individuals like myself, the inability to succeed in athletics creates lifelong resentment and feelings of incompetence. Better to praise the people that feed us, give us knowledge and ease our physical and mental burdens.

[doojable]

The point is not that athletics are a great endeavor. As I read this quote, it points to the effort given as opposed to the "ease" of criticizing.

This quote applies to so many more areas of life than sports. I can name at least a dozen off the top of my head. There are some things that build people and cement souls because of the team spirit, the sense of a shared effort, the look in the eyes of these folks when they see each other and "just know" that they got the job done.

Now, I realize that the quote says nothing about teams. But it does point to that spirit. A critic can stay on the sidelines and just do nothing but criticize. A doer of deeds has to get in there and work - frequently with others just like him or her.

I'm reminded of a quote by Shakespeare....I'll try to post it soon.

[WordWolf]

The point is not that athletics are a great endeavor. As I read this quote, it points to the effort given as opposed to the "ease" of criticizing.

This quote applies to so many more areas of life than sports. I can name at least a dozen off the top of my head. There are some things that build people and cement souls because of the team spirit, the sense of a shared effort, the look in the eyes of these folks when they see each other and "just know" that they got the job done.

Now, I realize that the quote says nothing about teams. But it does point to that spirit. A critic can stay on the sidelines and just do nothing but criticize. A doer of deeds has to get in there and work - frequently with others just like him or her.

I'm reminded of a quote by Shakespeare....I'll try to post it soon.

I agree with you.

The point I was TRYING to make was that this was not meant as a blanket dismissal of ALL

critics, and ALL criticism, at ALL times. However, if one only reads the opening, one may

get a false impression of that.

When someone is in their giving it their all, just sitting on the sidelines with a microphone

falls far short of their endeavour.

[doojable]

WordWolf -

I'm not getting the message about the "right way" to criticize here at all. Neither do I see a message that all critics are wrong. I really see the emphasis on the person striving- common sense might dictate to me that it takes a certain mentality to properly criticize and do it productively - but I'm not getting that from this quote. I get that because I've lived a bit....

Or - did I just step in one of those discussions that have carried over from another thread? I hate when I do that!

I'd be interested to see the break where only half the quote was used. I mean, unless you stop at "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. " I think the point is made pretty quickly.

Edited January 7, 2007 by doojable

[DrtyDzn]

Criticism from the sidelines given to someone playing the game is called coaching. Criticism broadcast to spectators is called commentary. Neither one is right or wrong. They just serve different purposes.

Jerry

[doojable]

Criticism from the sidelines given to someone playing the game is called coaching. Criticism broadcast to spectators is called commentary. Neither one is right or wrong. They just serve different purposes.

Jerry

Sometimes criticism is just yelling and screaming and telling folks they don't know what they're doing. What you described above is productive criticism. Most commentators have played the games themselves.

I may need to go back to the kitchen now......I know what I'm doing there.

[shazdancer]

I'm glad it's you in the kitchen, dooj. I know very little of what I'm doing there. :D

I'm guessing WW's remark is a carryover from another thread. But I gotta respond to Jim's response. Jim, I'm with you if you think we over-idolize and over-pay many of our top athletes (but don't lump them all in that category either -- I'm thinking Olympic-calibre martial artists and gymnasts, who don't get near the $$). But I disagree that "athletics is pretty much a worthless endeavor in any case."

I also was pretty awful at sports, though I became a half-decent dancer. I don't understand all the money thrown at certain sports, and I live in a town where saying "the Red Socks suck" could start a bar fight. But there is something inspirational about seeing a beautifully executed dive, or a perfect pass, or a fantastic sprint. To me, there is just something uplifting about watching a fellow human being do something amazing, through hard work and concentration.

But don't ask me to watch the Rose Bowl to see it, okay? I'll catch it on the news. :D

Regards,

Shaz

[George Aar]

I'm not quite sure I follow your reasoning WW. I've always heard the whole text, whenever I've heard it quoted.

And, even at that, I'm not all that sure that using the first line or two would necessarily be taking it out of context. But, whaddu I know?

Oh, and re: sports and the money and accolades thrown at it, et al. I found out the other day what the highest paid government job is in the State of Washington. Governor maybe? Nope. Attorney General? Some cabinet secretary maybe? The mayor of Seatte? No, not even close.

The highest paid government position in the state ( by quite a margin, I understand) is the head coaching job for the U of W Huskies Football Team. Yeah, that makes sense...

[Belle]

They are only called critics when they disagree with me.