honest discussion of the trinity?

[T-Bone]

Isn't this a little scary, Wolf? For all the time and brain power expended on this and other threads, in correspondence, conversations, teachings, presentations, lectures, books, preachings, magazines, movies and TV, now and throughout the past two+ millennia, wouldn't you think we'd have some kind of fairly certain idea of who the God we worship is? Or who His son, the savior of the whole dang world, might be? Why do we have such trouble getting past even the basics of faith?

Note that that was a rhetorical question, the last one. I'm not looking to derail the thread, just reiterate the futility I feel when discussing points of doctrine, especially the trinity.

-JJ

I think we know everything we NEED to know,

but not everything we WANT to know.

That is an intriguing thought, JumpinJive. I think your post is quite apt for this thread. In my opinion, who God and Jesus Christ are, is a core element in this bundled package of faith. I am purposely alluding to an operating system – which is how I see my belief system. For my operating system – I chose the Christian faith. I said "Christian faith" rather than "the Bible" to mean my belief system goes beyond mental activity with a book – which cannot respond to my input.

I view the Bible like interactive software – helping me connect to God, people, life. Unpacking this "bundled faith" is therefore much more than an intellectual pursuit of Scripture. Jesus' comment in Matthew 22:40 implies that God designed Scripture to be experienced based on one's interactive relationship with God and neighbor. I get the idea from this and other comments by Him that one of the most important things…essential things…basic things of the Christian life is relationships based on a love-dynamic. And I will up the ante on this thread by saying I believe that is MORE IMPORTANT than having the "correct doctrine" on the identity of Jesus Christ and God! If someone says "Oh you're wrong – doctrine shapes practice." To which I agree – but what is the practical consequence of me haggling over what He meant when He said, he who has seen ME has seen the Father [John 14:9]?...But now let's look at a couple of His other statements: why do you call Me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? [Luke 6:46]...by this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another [John 15:35]. Neither statement offers a clue on Jesus' identity – but the practical implications are enormous. The basics of my faith do NOT include a thorough understanding of God or Jesus Christ – however the integrity of my relationship to them and my fellowman under girds EVERY aspect of my faith.

And I think Word Wolf expressed the "tension" I feel in a lot of my personal studies. I believe God has placed the essential information in plain view in order to satisfy the needs of my soul. But there are many topics that I look into – that are fun to explore…elusive…inexhaustible…and even though they do not satisfy my curiosity – they excite me in just the thrill of the hunt!

Edited April 29, 2007 by T-Bone

[TrustAndObey]

I like how you put that T-Bone (and WordWolf).. So many things God has given us to understand clearly, yet so many things are not.. And while I may know many things about my earthly dad and his life, there are many things I don't know, but the more time I spend with him and share with him and him with me, the more I do get to know. Had he even written a book about himself, I still would only know what he chose to have written, but it's the personal one on one time where I get to ask questions and know him personally beyond the book.

So what if all I know to begin with is there is a God and he has a son Jesus Christ.. Maybe they somehow make up one "god" essence. Maybe they don't. Why should that stop me from getting to know them personally and walking out on what they do share. I'm fully confident that what I need to know, they will tell me, and what I need not know, why waste my time I could spend with them in my own mental agony?!

[JoePascha]

hello,

1st, let me say that I grew up in TWI and am well versed in TWI's teaching on this subject. I remember arguing with trinitarian ministers while I was still in high school and making them feel stupid. Atleast, they couldn't respond to the arguments against the deity of Jesus that I gave them.

When I tell people from a TWI background that I now whole-heartedly embrace the Nicene Creed they are incredulous. They assume that I have done this for social reasons or to fit in to a church, or the like.

I believe that I have rejected Way Doctrine on this issue because my study of the Scriptures compels me to. Further, I believe that everything in the Nicene Creed can be derived from scripture, either directly or by scripture buildup.

I believe that the Truth has nothing to fear from honest evaluation and critique. I feel I have done that.

What I have not done is present my findings to people from a TWI background. I would truly welcome anyone's honest discussion of this topic with me. In fact, I am asking for it.

I am still learning and believe also that I have somethings to share that might just bless someone.

Is anyone willing?

Dear SonoftheFather:

Greetings in the Name of Christ our Lord and Savior!

I read what your post on your beliefs with respect to the HolY Trinity and the Nicene Creed being the Truth. I agree with you also after many years of studing God's Word.

God Bless you always,

Dcn.Joe Pasquella

[year2027]

God first

Beloved JoePascha

God loves you my dear friend

when I think of trinity I think of the number three

the trinity or three power of mankind

1. the image of growth life

2. The image of soul life

3. the image of spirit life

then there is the three or trinity of spirit

1. spirit of God

2. spirit of Christ

3. spirit of us

The three in God to me are

1. God in God

2. Christ in God

3. us in God

So yes I believe in the trinity but just not the way the world does or not the way the Way Ministry does

I see trinity as the word family of one kind

the kind image, the kind spiritual being

I embrace the Nicene Creed too and many other books great reading to find questions to ask God and Christ

I see God as a personal God and Jesus Christ a personal brother

The Way look at things as a group believed but God is too personal for that we are all being molded as children of God one on one

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy