Discerning of Spirits do we really know what is?

[year2027]

God first

Discerning of Spirits do we really know what is?

06-11-2007

Beloved friends

God loves us all my dear friends

Discerning of Spirits do we really know what is?

Lets take it slow

Here the Greek word for discerning and the three places these Greek word is used in the bible.

Discerning - G1253. diakrisis, dee-ak'-ree-sis; from G1252; judicial estimation:--discern (-ing), disputation

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful (disputations.)

1 Cor 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another (discerning) of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to (discern) both good and evil.

Spirits - G4151. pneuma, pnyoo'-mah; from G4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Comp. G5590

We here see that the Greek word for spirits is talking about a image either of fleshly which some call the devil image or the image of Christ which is the image of God.

But how do we used this gift with the love of God and no miss used the gift my thinking there are evil images were there are not.

Now there is another word used as discerning but its not the same word as we are looking at

1 Cor 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not (discerning) the Lord's body.

Its Greek meaning

G1252. diakrino, dee-ak-ree'-no; from G1223 and G2919; to separate thoroughly, i.e. (lit. and reflex.) to withdraw from, or (by impl.) oppose; fig. to discriminate (by impl. decide), or (reflex.) hesitate:--contend, make (to) differ (-ence), discern, doubt, judge, be partial, stagger, waver.

Thank God this word was not used as the word discerning in 1 Cor 12:10 for (discerning of spirits)

It might of gave us a right to point fingers by discriminate one another because we got a bad feeling of a person and say there had a bad spirit but that not what discerning of spirits is about.

Lets look at the three verses we see it used again with some context.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful (disputations.)

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Its talking about seeing others believers weaknesses without despising the weak believer or judging the believer as evil.

1 Cor 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another (discerning) of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Here we all know the context ia a gift of the holy spirit to help our walk while it comforts us in the love of God.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to (discern) both good and evil.

6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Its talking about teaching one another how to changed from evil to good helping our friends not to do dead works.

Other wise its seeing others believers needs of images and receiving a image how we can help them while only seeing the love of God in them as you teach without pointing fingers like the Way ministry did to us or some churches do.

So I boldly say its nothing about seeing devil spirit every time some one does not agree with us or see eye to eye with what we believe.

Thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[Jeaniam]

I have heard it said that a believer needs great love to accurately manifest discerning of spirits, in order to be able to love the person and confront the spirit. I think most of the so-called 'discening of spirits' in TWI was bogus and nothing more than five-senses discernment that had nothing to do with God. I was involved with TWI for more than twenty years and was only directly confronted with an evil spirit once. While I do absolutely believe in the presence of an evil spirit on that one occasion, I also saw many people who were badly hurt by the bogus discerning of spirits by the representatives of TWI.

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Jeaniam

God loves you my dear friend

yes the Way cult manifest discerning of spirits was for the most part bogus

yes I say more people were hurt than help in the Way by miss using discerning of spirits

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[sirguessalot]

again...like i mentioned in other threads about other related topics (because they are all interrelated)

...this notion of discerning of spirits was common to more than just the first christians

the 9 manifestations of God

the 9 faces of God

etc...

spoke not only of the stages of the process by which all existance manifests

but spoke of the various ways in which we are born into it as humans

in other words

not only could one observe the 9 steps that a dinner party manifests itself

but one could recognize the 9 basic types of people in the world

to discern the textures and contours of this not only included intellectual knowledge

but emotional and intuitive skills and practices as well

and discern the ways that these 9 energies interact and relate to each other

these thoughts and practices were alive in pre-christian jewish, egyptian, celtic cultures and others

and even flourished beyond what is recorded in the epistles at the hands of muslims and others throughout history

...the maps overlap quite well

and again...the language we use to describe a thing or process is never the same as that thing or process being described

and so we may find that form and shape of that which our language holds (as a vessel)

is the same or very similar to that being held by another language

this, i believe, is a huge part of discerning of spirits...

where, if the spirit of God manifests in another tongue...one can simply tell

...from the numbers, colors, sounds, and various archetypes all leave their trace across all the languages of man

like i said...there can come a point in any one's life when the theological debates are over

yet not simply because one stops arguing...but because the commonality beyond the words becomes unmistakable

and our fear of betraying our tribe no longer has a hold on us and causes us to "flinch"

we see that the family of God is ultimately red underneath

as it was all along (before we forgot)

and the spiritual change is not some entry of something new

as much as the simplest shift of attention to that which is already there

on the 7th day

is was all good

and God rested

Edited June 12, 2007 by sirguessalot

[Ham]

Roy, I'm beginning to think that the discerning of spirits and casting out of devils, as we were schooled by der vey, was about as primitive as a cave man trying to perform brain surgery with a bone knife.

We were given a whole list of spirits, and we were supposed to match the apparent symptoms to the one that was the closest match..

"look, he yawned, in class! He must be influenced.. maybe possessed! Hmm... has a degree.. could be a fallacious spirit.."

Then the guy who was simply bored to tears is facing the modern equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition..

Maybe some people have had different experiences, but I think the casting out of spirits for the most part is no different than hypnotism. You make a suggestion.. and the person thinks they feel better.

I think it can effect people on an unconscious level.

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Todd or sirguessalot and Mr. Hammeroni

God loves us all my dear friends

Todd "the 9 faces of God"

or 9 images of God

or 9 love views of God

Your reply has blessed my heart Todd I will stop here before I quote your whole reply thanks

Mr. Hammeroni I love this truth "I'm beginning to think that the discerning of spirits and casting out of devils, as we were schooled by der vey, was about as primitive as a cave man trying to perform brain surgery with a bone knife." thanks for it

I seen this happen too "You make a suggestion.. and the person thinks they feel better"

but maybe the gift of healing was used because its was caused by sickness not devils

while we try to cast out what was not there God out love took the believing action to cast out and just healed the sick

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[Sunesis]

Yes, we were taught to watch out for devil spirits everywhere, weren't we? Oy Vay.

Discerning of spirits. If I am with someone and I sense weirdness, something's off, or someone makes the hair stand up - a touch of evil. A shiver down the spine. I think God can warn us of people or situations to stay away from.

On the other hand, a Christian. There is someone you meet, at work maybe and there's an instant affinity, a click, like you know them. I believe God can tell us when we're in the presence of another with his spirit. We do know each other - spiritually.

Much more than that, I do not know.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Sunesis

[JavaJane]

I would have to agree with Sunesis... sometimes there is just something there and you know it. How it was taught in twi was too... scientific? is that the right way to say it? I don't know. Spirit is more like art than science. twi was too into control to really get things in this category right. They tried to make it so that if you took a certain series of steps you would always get the same result. But it doesn't work that way.

I truly believe in discerning of spirits, simply because of my own experiences. Spirit is everywhere and in everything. And not all are evil. (But some definately are.)

My experiences in the field are different from a lot of people, though. I had seen things as a child in this category before I even knew it was talked about in the Bible.

Some people may think I'm crazy. Maybe I am. But I have learned to listen to when something inside tells me to stay away from someone... most of the time I'm right.

Edited June 13, 2007 by JavaJane

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Sunesis and JavaJane

God loves us all my dear friends

Sunesis - JavaJane- yes God can warn us of people but we must make sure its God not their looks or etc and God can show us good people too

JavaJane - Sunesis - that is ok when I saw spirits of Athelets by craig m I saw most of the so call devil in me but I saw them as images on TV were I learn to act that way

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[Jeaniam]

I agree with both Sunesis and JavaJane that discerning of spirits is a real manifestation of holy spirit and that it works both ways to discern both good and evil spirits. Where I think it became bogus in some people in TWI, was when people began to see 'devil spirits' under every rock. This man in his late thirties has never been married (mostly because he gave so much of his life to TWI), so he must have an homosexual spirit. Another woman leaves her cupboard doors standing slightly ajar on a regular basis, she must have a disorderly spirit. My son, who is autistic, has no medical cause for his disability (as far as they knew at the time), so his father and I must have a spirit of error, and passed it on to him. This is what I mean by five-senses discerning of spirits.

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Jeaniam

God loves you my dear friend

all gifts are real

yes "five-senses discerning of spirits" is all ways wrong because it just judging by a outward view

but spiritual discerning of spirits shows that there is a need in a person or group and how to help

with how to help there no value

if I made a person think or even if they get mad the ideal of what might help is there when they are ready

but if they are never readly God would not tell anything us its just to give them a changed

the Way mostly did "five-senses discerning of spirits" and that the way a lot of churches do it but that got to be a way to do it with love while helping not pointing a finger

I do not know if I am being clear but I do not want to point how we have to think but just to share what I see as I hear what others see

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[Jeaniam]

God first

Beloved Jeaniam

God loves you my dear friend

all gifts are real

the Way mostly did "five-senses discerning of spirits" and that the way a lot of churches do it but that got to be a way to do it with love while helping not pointing a finger

I do not know if I am being clear but I do not want to point how we have to think but just to share what I see as I hear what others see

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

I think your point is very clear and I agree 100%.

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Jeaniam

God loves you my dear friend

thank you Jeaniam you have blessed me

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[Jeaniam]

I think the definition we were once given says it about as well as anything. I also believe that it really is true that in order to operate discerning of spirits correctly, you must operate with a great deal of love.

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Jeaniam

God loves you my dear friend

yes with love

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

Edited June 14, 2007 by year2027