i very much enjoyed his first book a few years ago, "The Power of Now," and quite easily consider Eckharte Tolle one of the most relevant spiritual voices today.
the fact that his work is being accepted so widely in the mainstream is pretty amazing, but not all too surprising, as his way of being not only smoothly synthesizes and summarizes a wide swath of the world's contemplative traditions, but his "pointing out" is very plain english, simple and direct.
also...i think it helps to keep in mind that while he is a specialist in pointing at consciousness, he does not spend a whole lot of time in the nitty gritty details of other specialized fields of consciousness. His is a very important but general message/technique. Good thing most fields of consciousness studies accepts other corners of the field.
but if all anyone ever read in the field was ET...it is way plenty, with a lot of leverage for interior transformation.
and as with all such teachers...i'm sure he may end up with some sort of cult/culture surrounding him. But given the nature of what he is saying, at least it will be a open peaceful culture.
Anything ''advising'' me on what my life's purpose should be, turns me off completely. I won't be participating. Whenever the world gets on a bandwagon for something, it's usually entering the wide gate off the deep end.
Even though I am a Christian, I do try to learn from anywhere and anyone..............(lessons learned through cult recovery)
But, the moment it twists scripture to ''fit'' their own imagination, I throw out the baby and bathwater. Sound familiar? He shares parables through the lens of his agenda.
I heard it's a nice piece of fiction though. Just because he talks about Jesus doesn't mean he believes in Him. He talks about Buddha too.
If you are ''Christian'' please read it with a bible in hand and a discerning eye.
I have this book but haven't read it yet, so I'll go look at Oprah's site for info. Thanks for mentioning it.
Advising me what my life's purpose would be? Where did that come from? I thought Eckharte Tolle was all about living consciously, which could be practiced in the light of different faiths. But I guess I won't know until I read the book!
When I read the power of now, I felt like if I didn't get it, or I didn't agree "it" was supposed to fall apart or be less than something or be somehow not the rightest life -- I am always leary about that.
I am all for understanding ourselves and the universe, but not at the expense of ourselves or the universe...meaning I am not going into denial to try to elevate something not ready to be elevated or shouldnt be elevated in my conscious mind -- I am probably not clear, but without having read it...the new earth...which I will probably try to read eventually, I cant really say what I think...but I still have learniness.
While I also think Oprah has done a world of good...I still think she has lost certain connections to real people and never had some connections to reality as exhibited by her responses to people recently. She is still naive. I dont argue that what we think affects everything, and I do think the "law of attraction" has some merit, but all this metaphysical stuff still doesnt help the little boy with cancer or the girl who's eye got shot out by the mom's gang banger boyfriend by accident.. all of whom I have in my class. (she did just get a very nice galss eye---but it does roll around once in a while)
I read the Power of Now some time ago, about the same time as I was moving into Wiccan/pagan ideas. I think the biggest thing I came away with during that whole time was the new idea that I was connected to all, to others, to the earth and world around me... that the separations in my life as I'd viewed myself and others were unhealthy, caused destruction in many different ways.
As young person I was a Roman Catholic--the exclusive and right true church, all others on the outside were somehow less. Then in college I got into TWI where I stayed for nearly 20 years--again, in the exclusive right way, separated by the new birth and right doctrine from all the other mistaken folk (though 'saps' would be closer to the actual viewpoint of others).
Especially in the TWI times, I often felt a discord between 'doing the word' and compassion, but being a busy wafer I had no time to really look at that. During that time of the reading of Power of Now was when I started to really view such discordances inside me.
I don't really think metaphysical stuff is supposed to do the actual hands on work of helping those with horrible injuries or illness or lives, but that is the realm of work of people of compassion and connectedness to try to alleviate. Perhaps if more people saw their own connections to others, through metaphysical thought, more brilliant minds and resources would search for answers to illnesses and horrible circumstances, and perhaps the desire to join a gang or war and solve issues with deadly violence would lessen, replaced by pursuits that built community and hope, a 'we all win' perspective instead of an 'I win, you lose' perspective.
I can see from the fundamentalist born again doctrinal background, that all of this type thought would be dangerous and devilish--the whole doctrine is built upon separation from the evil world, from others outside the fold, not connectedness except within the select community.
I think the evil world would be a whole lot less evil if others felt a connection to their fellowman and the world around them, saw other's suffering as part of their own.
That's my thought, anyway. It fits with my goddess type beliefs that treasure compassion, community, responsibility, individuallity...
Any way, if anyone is doing the Oprah thang, I'm (finally) registered as melodiwy, a name that has no actual personal meaning, I was just trying out dozens, and that one actually worked... Not questioning music...
i think it helps to note that there is also a wave of post-metaphysical thought...and i would put ET's work "at the door" to that.
and i wouldnt put ETs work and "The Secret" on the same level either
to use a very simple metaphor...that would be kinda like mixing the lessons of 1st and 5th grade
but i also fear that this topic could get real heady (mostly boring and unreadable) real fast...so i will leave it at this: just as there is a difference between physics and meta-physics...there is a difference between meta and post-meta...and imho, PFAL doctrine is mostly a mix of crude metaphysics and sloppy religion...
...but even a broken clock is correct twice a day
...
on inter-connectivity and separation and such...
i love what you wrote about that...and the notion of unity always reminds me of the scriptures regarding "love your neighbor as yourself"
but it seems that we often settle for much less in our interpretations of it
we often tend to apply a "golden rule" type of interpretation...as if the commandment is merely a figure of speech to "do unto other..."
but i dont believe that even begins to touch the depth of the commandment
in terms of real experienced connectedness..."to love your neighbor AS your self" is an invitation to shift one's natural (but small and isolated) sense of identity.
...to drop the other-versus-self illusion ...if only for a moment...and then perhaps for life
...like asking a leaf to love other leaves as a part of one's whole TREE of self
figures of speech aside...we literally see our SELF in each other's eyes...and are capable of living and loving accordingly
imho...THIS is the kind of consciousness E. Tolle speaks of...not the carnal materialist self-centered perspective of modernity
our very sense of "selfness" is transforming ...whether we resist it or not
the very boundaries around who we think we are is constructed...and moves...and are destined to be torn down and rebuilt
the self and other dichotomy is only relatively true
Interesting that love your neighbor had such conditions in TWI--the neighbor was defined alot differently than I think Jesus meant. That made a discord within me, for sure.
I see the teachings of the Jesus of the gospels to be quite in line with the writings of E Tolle, though I find much Christian doctrine jarring and disconnected from what I perceive Jesus to teach.
I've yet to read the ICHing, but that is something I plan to spend some time in one day.
On metaphysics--yes there seems to be a carnal form that is concerned with material gain for personal use etc, when I think the real value doesn't concern material accumulation at all.
And then there is a whole other plane of understanding that doesn't involve goods, materials etc, prayer and spells to get stuff, or get out of stuff. An area that needs a better defining word, I guess.
not to get off the subject of ET, but there is a great book called Jesus and Buddha. One side has Buddha's sayngs (who lived what? 400 yrs before christ) and the other side has the same ideas, but expressed by Jesus.
This evidence lends itself to the idea that there are truly some universal concepts that people pay attention to all over the planet.
BUT, ;like the Ching teaching regarding Yin and Yang, I also blieve for all these universal concepts honored by both Buddha andd Jesus and followers, there are equally opposing concepts that throw down those concepts and there will always be followers o selfishness ...maybe I have a bleak outlook, but it doesn't mean I dont personally folow the more compassionate way. I guess I jut don't think all the trees will get along even if the leaves of one tree do a spectacular job at it....
I wasn't able towatch the online class--I got in but it was way too slow. The class can be downloaded --the video, or mp3 or transcript, which is what I down loaded onto my palm.
I think if anyone was interested but didn't have the book they still might enjoy the class/transcripts. The message boards are interesting also.
I signed up for the class, but I am really behind right now. I spent the previous 2 weeks taking care of my nephew while my sister had twin baby girls.
I'm reading chapter 1 still. I started to listen to the podcast for chapter 1, but I need to finish the chapter first.
I don't know what I'm expecting out of this. Eckhart Tolle says either you will be enlightened or bored. If you are ready for enlightenment, you will get it. Am I ready?
I signed up for the class, but I am really behind right now. I spent the previous 2 weeks taking care of my nephew while my sister had twin baby girls.
I'm reading chapter 1 still. I started to listen to the podcast for chapter 1, but I need to finish the chapter first.
I don't know what I'm expecting out of this. Eckhart Tolle says either you will be enlightened or bored. If you are ready for enlightenment, you will get it. Am I ready?
I can't follow the actual schedule, either--I have a spring break vacation right in the middle of it. But the online class can be downloaded in several different ways( Ipod, etc) for your convenience.
I haven't run into any of that yet, and don't remember that from the Power of Now, but I read it some time ago and may have skimmed things. Heaven knows I'm sick of being told what to do, especially if it involves an 'or else!'! Not receptive to that.
I have the pdf transcripts--I do much better reading than listening, which makes me sleepy.
This is not a new jot and tittle dogma. Many of Tolle's ideas can be found in other writings, other writers, other religions.
He pretty much defines how he is using a word, to try to communicate what he sees...some words have so many shades of meaning.
Not a new set of rules to follow that will have better results than the last set of rules you tried(see how much more abundant you are! with OUR doctrine)...not a competition of doctrine.
Shrug--seen plenty of that in church and in pagan circles, ooo this spell/prayer will work sooo much better than that last circle/ church/ prayer group. All about the having. And all work about the same, IMO
This is more about your inward work/spirituality/viewpoint, ability to see where your thoughts and emotions come from and why, not another new doctrine. Personal work that would be unique to each individual.
You can stay what ever religion you are or aren't , and call God whatever you want. Or change as you see fit, or not. But know why you are doing it. It should mean something to you. Deeper thought than renewed mind, keep the brain busy phrase processes we learned in TWi--which actually shut up our inner voice by brow beating it with doctrine.
I guess I haven't expected a new doctrine of truth to be followed like some new ministry...seems un Eckhardt Tolle-like...If you are expecting a rule book to follow, this isn't it. Rule books take simple memorization...and conformity.
--that really is not the point of the book, but apparantly from the Oprah message board, that is exactly what people are getting out of it...new dogma, new buzz words. I suspect that is not the point of E Tolle's book--don't know about Oprah!
I prefer Goddess, personally. I see no compelling reason to change to accept someone else' word/view. I can figure out my own. Have't heard anyone say I have to change to be part of the cool Tolle kids group yet. Not that I care!
yes I know what you mean -- and no I ain't joining that kids group either.....maybe its the idea that human nature is too turn it into a "new thing" -- call it what they will....it becomes less meta and more followa...
I am enjoying what I had so far...confirms somethings I already thought...don't completely agree with seperating from the voice all the time --- we do have fight and flight for a reason...but then voice can get in the way of fight or flight becasue we listen to voice when we should be in tune to fight or flight.
yes I know what you mean -- and no I ain't joining that kids group either.....maybe its the idea that human nature is too turn it into a "new thing" -- call it what they will....it becomes less meta and more followa...Heehee, good one
I am enjoying what I had so far...confirms somethings I already thought...don't completely agree with seperating from the voice all the time --- we do have fight and flight for a reason...but then voice can get in the way of fight or flight becasue we listen to voice when we should be in tune to fight or flight.
We(hubby and I) turned our fight or flight voice off for years in TWI and renewed our minds instead
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sirguessalot
this is one of the books i am currently reading
i very much enjoyed his first book a few years ago, "The Power of Now," and quite easily consider Eckharte Tolle one of the most relevant spiritual voices today.
the fact that his work is being accepted so widely in the mainstream is pretty amazing, but not all too surprising, as his way of being not only smoothly synthesizes and summarizes a wide swath of the world's contemplative traditions, but his "pointing out" is very plain english, simple and direct.
also...i think it helps to keep in mind that while he is a specialist in pointing at consciousness, he does not spend a whole lot of time in the nitty gritty details of other specialized fields of consciousness. His is a very important but general message/technique. Good thing most fields of consciousness studies accepts other corners of the field.
but if all anyone ever read in the field was ET...it is way plenty, with a lot of leverage for interior transformation.
and as with all such teachers...i'm sure he may end up with some sort of cult/culture surrounding him. But given the nature of what he is saying, at least it will be a open peaceful culture.
a lot of material googles up on him, too
thumbs up
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bliss
Anything ''advising'' me on what my life's purpose should be, turns me off completely. I won't be participating. Whenever the world gets on a bandwagon for something, it's usually entering the wide gate off the deep end.
Even though I am a Christian, I do try to learn from anywhere and anyone..............(lessons learned through cult recovery)
But, the moment it twists scripture to ''fit'' their own imagination, I throw out the baby and bathwater. Sound familiar? He shares parables through the lens of his agenda.
I heard it's a nice piece of fiction though. Just because he talks about Jesus doesn't mean he believes in Him. He talks about Buddha too.
If you are ''Christian'' please read it with a bible in hand and a discerning eye.
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Bramble
I have this book but haven't read it yet, so I'll go look at Oprah's site for info. Thanks for mentioning it.
Advising me what my life's purpose would be? Where did that come from? I thought Eckharte Tolle was all about living consciously, which could be practiced in the light of different faiths. But I guess I won't know until I read the book!
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Bramble
I tried to sign up on the Oprah site but it wouldn't take any user name I typed in!
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washn'wear
Bliss, I am kinda with you on this.
I am very leery of formula living.
I will still give these thing an ear as I still believe in prove all things hold fast to that which I can agree with ---usually the good
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Bramble
Formula living? Eckhart Tolle?
Can you explain that?
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Bramble
Finally was able to get registered!
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washn'wear
When I read the power of now, I felt like if I didn't get it, or I didn't agree "it" was supposed to fall apart or be less than something or be somehow not the rightest life -- I am always leary about that.
I am all for understanding ourselves and the universe, but not at the expense of ourselves or the universe...meaning I am not going into denial to try to elevate something not ready to be elevated or shouldnt be elevated in my conscious mind -- I am probably not clear, but without having read it...the new earth...which I will probably try to read eventually, I cant really say what I think...but I still have learniness.
While I also think Oprah has done a world of good...I still think she has lost certain connections to real people and never had some connections to reality as exhibited by her responses to people recently. She is still naive. I dont argue that what we think affects everything, and I do think the "law of attraction" has some merit, but all this metaphysical stuff still doesnt help the little boy with cancer or the girl who's eye got shot out by the mom's gang banger boyfriend by accident.. all of whom I have in my class. (she did just get a very nice galss eye---but it does roll around once in a while)
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Bramble
I read the Power of Now some time ago, about the same time as I was moving into Wiccan/pagan ideas. I think the biggest thing I came away with during that whole time was the new idea that I was connected to all, to others, to the earth and world around me... that the separations in my life as I'd viewed myself and others were unhealthy, caused destruction in many different ways.
As young person I was a Roman Catholic--the exclusive and right true church, all others on the outside were somehow less. Then in college I got into TWI where I stayed for nearly 20 years--again, in the exclusive right way, separated by the new birth and right doctrine from all the other mistaken folk (though 'saps' would be closer to the actual viewpoint of others).
Especially in the TWI times, I often felt a discord between 'doing the word' and compassion, but being a busy wafer I had no time to really look at that. During that time of the reading of Power of Now was when I started to really view such discordances inside me.
I don't really think metaphysical stuff is supposed to do the actual hands on work of helping those with horrible injuries or illness or lives, but that is the realm of work of people of compassion and connectedness to try to alleviate. Perhaps if more people saw their own connections to others, through metaphysical thought, more brilliant minds and resources would search for answers to illnesses and horrible circumstances, and perhaps the desire to join a gang or war and solve issues with deadly violence would lessen, replaced by pursuits that built community and hope, a 'we all win' perspective instead of an 'I win, you lose' perspective.
I can see from the fundamentalist born again doctrinal background, that all of this type thought would be dangerous and devilish--the whole doctrine is built upon separation from the evil world, from others outside the fold, not connectedness except within the select community.
I think the evil world would be a whole lot less evil if others felt a connection to their fellowman and the world around them, saw other's suffering as part of their own.
That's my thought, anyway. It fits with my goddess type beliefs that treasure compassion, community, responsibility, individuallity...
Any way, if anyone is doing the Oprah thang, I'm (finally) registered as melodiwy, a name that has no actual personal meaning, I was just trying out dozens, and that one actually worked... Not questioning music...
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sirguessalot
good stuff Bramble...
a few thoughts...
...
on metaphysics....
i think it helps to note that there is also a wave of post-metaphysical thought...and i would put ET's work "at the door" to that.
and i wouldnt put ETs work and "The Secret" on the same level either
to use a very simple metaphor...that would be kinda like mixing the lessons of 1st and 5th grade
but i also fear that this topic could get real heady (mostly boring and unreadable) real fast...so i will leave it at this: just as there is a difference between physics and meta-physics...there is a difference between meta and post-meta...and imho, PFAL doctrine is mostly a mix of crude metaphysics and sloppy religion...
...but even a broken clock is correct twice a day
...
on inter-connectivity and separation and such...
i love what you wrote about that...and the notion of unity always reminds me of the scriptures regarding "love your neighbor as yourself"
but it seems that we often settle for much less in our interpretations of it
we often tend to apply a "golden rule" type of interpretation...as if the commandment is merely a figure of speech to "do unto other..."
but i dont believe that even begins to touch the depth of the commandment
in terms of real experienced connectedness..."to love your neighbor AS your self" is an invitation to shift one's natural (but small and isolated) sense of identity.
...to drop the other-versus-self illusion ...if only for a moment...and then perhaps for life
...like asking a leaf to love other leaves as a part of one's whole TREE of self
figures of speech aside...we literally see our SELF in each other's eyes...and are capable of living and loving accordingly
imho...THIS is the kind of consciousness E. Tolle speaks of...not the carnal materialist self-centered perspective of modernity
our very sense of "selfness" is transforming ...whether we resist it or not
the very boundaries around who we think we are is constructed...and moves...and are destined to be torn down and rebuilt
the self and other dichotomy is only relatively true
we truly are a riddle in a mirror
...at first
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Bramble
Interesting that love your neighbor had such conditions in TWI--the neighbor was defined alot differently than I think Jesus meant. That made a discord within me, for sure.
I see the teachings of the Jesus of the gospels to be quite in line with the writings of E Tolle, though I find much Christian doctrine jarring and disconnected from what I perceive Jesus to teach.
I've yet to read the ICHing, but that is something I plan to spend some time in one day.
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Bramble
On metaphysics--yes there seems to be a carnal form that is concerned with material gain for personal use etc, when I think the real value doesn't concern material accumulation at all.
And then there is a whole other plane of understanding that doesn't involve goods, materials etc, prayer and spells to get stuff, or get out of stuff. An area that needs a better defining word, I guess.
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washn'wear
not to get off the subject of ET, but there is a great book called Jesus and Buddha. One side has Buddha's sayngs (who lived what? 400 yrs before christ) and the other side has the same ideas, but expressed by Jesus.
This evidence lends itself to the idea that there are truly some universal concepts that people pay attention to all over the planet.
BUT, ;like the Ching teaching regarding Yin and Yang, I also blieve for all these universal concepts honored by both Buddha andd Jesus and followers, there are equally opposing concepts that throw down those concepts and there will always be followers o selfishness ...maybe I have a bleak outlook, but it doesn't mean I dont personally folow the more compassionate way. I guess I jut don't think all the trees will get along even if the leaves of one tree do a spectacular job at it....
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sirguessalot
gawd i talk/write too much sometimes
i hope you guys share some of your experiences of the online classes here
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Bramble
I wasn't able towatch the online class--I got in but it was way too slow. The class can be downloaded --the video, or mp3 or transcript, which is what I down loaded onto my palm.
I think if anyone was interested but didn't have the book they still might enjoy the class/transcripts. The message boards are interesting also.
http://event.oprah.com/videochannel/ondemand/od_main.html
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Nottawayfer
I signed up for the class, but I am really behind right now. I spent the previous 2 weeks taking care of my nephew while my sister had twin baby girls.
I'm reading chapter 1 still. I started to listen to the podcast for chapter 1, but I need to finish the chapter first.
I don't know what I'm expecting out of this. Eckhart Tolle says either you will be enlightened or bored. If you are ready for enlightenment, you will get it. Am I ready?
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Bramble
I can't follow the actual schedule, either--I have a spring break vacation right in the middle of it. But the online class can be downloaded in several different ways( Ipod, etc) for your convenience.
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washn'wear
I finally finished he MP3 of night 1. It was good...metathinking....thinking about what you think about.
I think I had to start doing that as a prerequisite to leaving the way and then started thinking about the other thoughts running through my head
so far so good...as long as it doesn't turn into a "your good if you.... " or "your not good if you...."
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Bramble
I haven't run into any of that yet, and don't remember that from the Power of Now, but I read it some time ago and may have skimmed things. Heaven knows I'm sick of being told what to do, especially if it involves an 'or else!'! Not receptive to that.
I have the pdf transcripts--I do much better reading than listening, which makes me sleepy.
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excathedra
sorry no can do
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washn'wear
I am not sure I am ready to call God all consciousness...or maybe I am missing his point.
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Bramble
This is not a new jot and tittle dogma. Many of Tolle's ideas can be found in other writings, other writers, other religions.
He pretty much defines how he is using a word, to try to communicate what he sees...some words have so many shades of meaning.
Not a new set of rules to follow that will have better results than the last set of rules you tried(see how much more abundant you are! with OUR doctrine)...not a competition of doctrine.
Shrug--seen plenty of that in church and in pagan circles, ooo this spell/prayer will work sooo much better than that last circle/ church/ prayer group. All about the having. And all work about the same, IMO
This is more about your inward work/spirituality/viewpoint, ability to see where your thoughts and emotions come from and why, not another new doctrine. Personal work that would be unique to each individual.
You can stay what ever religion you are or aren't , and call God whatever you want. Or change as you see fit, or not. But know why you are doing it. It should mean something to you. Deeper thought than renewed mind, keep the brain busy phrase processes we learned in TWi--which actually shut up our inner voice by brow beating it with doctrine.
I guess I haven't expected a new doctrine of truth to be followed like some new ministry...seems un Eckhardt Tolle-like...If you are expecting a rule book to follow, this isn't it. Rule books take simple memorization...and conformity.
--that really is not the point of the book, but apparantly from the Oprah message board, that is exactly what people are getting out of it...new dogma, new buzz words. I suspect that is not the point of E Tolle's book--don't know about Oprah!
I prefer Goddess, personally. I see no compelling reason to change to accept someone else' word/view. I can figure out my own. Have't heard anyone say I have to change to be part of the cool Tolle kids group yet. Not that I care!
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washn'wear
yes I know what you mean -- and no I ain't joining that kids group either.....maybe its the idea that human nature is too turn it into a "new thing" -- call it what they will....it becomes less meta and more followa...
I am enjoying what I had so far...confirms somethings I already thought...don't completely agree with seperating from the voice all the time --- we do have fight and flight for a reason...but then voice can get in the way of fight or flight becasue we listen to voice when we should be in tune to fight or flight.
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Bramble
We(hubby and I) turned our fight or flight voice off for years in TWI and renewed our minds instead
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