Man nor any other created thing or being in all their folly cannot change or alter anything GOD sets in place for everything GOD does He establishes it.
I tend to believe that GOD himself is a "black and white" thinker! His mercy and attributes are not His shades of gray...they are as unmoveable or unalterable as GOD
Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Pro 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: [and] meddle not with them that are given to change
Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or [being] his counsellor hath taught him?
Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and [who] instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations [are] as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 ΒΆ For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.
Isa 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap [their] hands.
God's Word surely is all encompassing and he does cover it all! Very nice to know that His will will be done in the "Grand scheme" of it all!!!
What have You been studying Cman?
I am working on Daniel and Revelation...which is amazing. I always wanted to understand Revelation.... in light of history, other books of the bible and a few commentaries to sift
If you could give me an idea of what you are doing with Daniel and Revelations, that might help with where I can chime in. Cause I don't know much and know a lot about what I don't know :).
I think what both Daniel and John were seeing were in real time for themselves and what they could see of the layers and changes that all go through.
I don't think it was some movie for them, like the word vision seems to indicate.
To me, History regarding these things would be different according to each person.
Although it stays current and changing.
Some could have already experienced what they were saying and speaking of.
If you could give me an idea of what you are doing with Daniel and Revelations, that might help with where I can chime in. Cause I don't know much and know a lot about what I don't know :).
I think what both Daniel and John were seeing were in real time for themselves and what they could see of the layers and changes that all go through.
I don't think it was some movie for them, like the word vision seems to indicate.
To me, History regarding these things would be different according to each person.
Although it stays current and changing.
Some could have already experienced what they were saying and speaking of.
2.http://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/davis_bob/ commentary - on Daniel and Revelation
3. My Bible and concordances and maps..etc.
He is a good commentary and it all plays on or downloads to the "Real player" ( a free down loadable media player).
I don't agree with His trinity viewpoint but I am able to sift that out and glean from his knowledge and to document his historical sources and findings!;
It is time consuming, but worth the effort!
Maybe, You, or anyone else would like to share their knowledge of these two inter-related books, as this is the 1st time I have ever understood Daniel or Revelations and yet I am still
not ready to really discuss it on a teaching level...It is still processing! After being told not to bother with it and finding how exciting and informative it truly is, I hope that others will add
It was great of You to check it out so quickly and to share your thoughts with me! I am still working through it!
I hope that I have not disrupted or derailed your thread with my questions!!!
I brought it up in correlation in a way to what is GOD's will and how is it being done... relating to the subject of Your thread! I am sorry for the tangent!!!
I wish more people were responding to Your Thread here; I think that it would make for a really great discussion; but that is a privilege and a choice.
Since this is my 1st real in depth look at Revelation and Daniel..I am really excited that I can put some of it together and increase my knowledge and understanding, without having
exclusively a TWI take on it.
Now, I can look objectively at any viewpoints that may help me, and sift them to find GOD's true will! After all is said and done, GOD and GOD's Word and GOD's Will still remain the
same, established and unalterable, now and forever! My goal is to learn it as He, GOD intends it be known; Without altering it, or adding to it, or subtracting from it to suit my will.
Back to GOD's will being done!
I never was denominational or religious; That is all too complicated for me. Just way too many viewpoints of GOD for me. If the Bibles wrong then I deserve the consequences or
whatever! Although, I am convinced it isn't wrong at all!!!
All that I have ever truly wanted to know is GOD, His Will and His Word purely and unadulterated. He has loved, saved me in all manners, watched over me, healed, protected me, and
forgiven me. I could not list all that God has done for me or my children, Loved ones and friends!!! The absolute, very least that I can return back to Him is to love, honor, and trust His
will and Word in my all too human, but genuine way.
Love You Cman, thanks for taking the time and the effort to reply to my queries; and for your input here at GRSC!
What do You think explains the many thousands of different interpretations by mankind of the Word/Scripture throughout all the ages, since GOD desires that His will is done and He is
not given to change. He allows us free will choice to hew out our own cisterns, but particularly states:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
and
Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
God's Word is His Will... It testifies of Him. How else would we know GOD??? By the billion different viewpoints and schools of thought??? To know GOD's Will/Word we must learn it,
decide to apply it and live it! We would not know Christ or to be Christlike without the Word of GOD. We were created to be godly, not ungodly!!!
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
I first learned these in TWI classes, but since then I have relearned them in the Bible with GOD as my teacher and instructor. They are still the same. God doesn't change, His Word and
Will doesn't change.
We change as we choose to; but should we change in anyway we choose to???: If GOD's Will is to be done should we change His Will, by our free will???Are we the clay now going to
fashion the potter??? HAHAHA Are we now going to instruct GOD to understand and accept our will over His Will/Word He gave us choice, but both in the Old and the New
Testament we see there are consequences for choices that are against His Will/Word. He has that right. He is the creator and we are the creations. We are specks to Him, but He in His
love made us worthy through His grace, mercy, lovingkindness and constancy and invariance. He exalted us but we will always still remain under Him and accountable to him in His good
time and pleasure!
Least we forget that this is only an age, "The Age of Grace", a small speck of time to GOD whose reckoning of time is incomprehensibly different than ours is. This age will pass at and by
GOD's Will/Word alone...not by our will. What can we change by our own wills that will effect GOD's Will or the age to come??? Free Will can bite You if You're NOT careful and it is
not tempered by GOD's Will/Word and meek to GOD!!!
Eph 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1Ti 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.
I like learning from You too Cman. I respect You greatly and I like your style!
Ahhh, :) I thought it was about John chapter 1 ...that helps me a lot; except as You say it is a difficult chapter!!!
I didn't want to assume where You were coming from or to infer something that You didn't state! It never hurts to ask hey?
Now I have to brush up on John chapter1.
I certainly hope for You and me that someone else more on Your par starts contributing to this fine and interesting thread, while I check things out a little more I have been gone out a
lot today
I am sure that You have been reworking what You learned for a far greater amount of time than I have.
I mull it over longer.
I like to read it...listen to many different word based commentaries and work it.
Now we are on the same page! I understand that loud and clear!
"The Word of God without God is empty.
Without God to take us through it, we by ourselves cannot get it.
By our own doing alone, we cannot get the meaning.
Maybe that's worded better."
You have such amazing depth of understand!
John chapter 1 is just so very controversial! I can see it from at least three different viewpoints:
Trinitarian, Non trinitarian and as referring to as GOD's foreknowledge!
It matters mainly to GOD what I believe; so I don't argue it, dispute it or debate it much, I just keep it as I am able to understand it! Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
In the past 20 years that I have studied GOD's word I see too many clear references to
Christ being the Son of God rather than God the Son. If someone asked me about it, that is what I would teach and show them...every man decides His own heart!
It always seems to come back around to our free will and our level of understanding versus GOD's Will and knowing! Still His will is what will absolutely prevail! It is really only
logical,...Mankind wills are individual, unequal, too divided and incomparable to GOD's Will. GOD's will is not divided at all...it remains constant and trustworthy!
I appreciate the compliments, but it certainly is not my doing.
Any thing I know is brought together by God.
I could never pull it off myself.
Back to 'will the will'.
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Hey, don't laugh at me too hard, but for some reason I think better in the KJV; and I have some thoughts and questions about some of the verses you posted along with some that I
have added. I also want to thank You for bringing them up here as they are becoming far clearer to me than they have ever been before!
Jhn 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jhn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
This is conditional that we are His friend here, if we do the will of GOD!
Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Jhn 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Jhn 15:18 ΒΆ If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.
Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Jhn 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
Jhn 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Is hateth here opposing GOD and His Will or total rejection of GOD?
Jhn 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Why would they not have had sin?
Jhn 15:25 But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
Jhn 15:26 ΒΆ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
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anotherDan
yeah, I think so
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RainbowsGirl
Man nor any other created thing or being in all their folly cannot change or alter anything GOD sets in place for everything GOD does He establishes it.
I tend to believe that GOD himself is a "black and white" thinker! His mercy and attributes are not His shades of gray...they are as unmoveable or unalterable as GOD
Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Pro 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: [and] meddle not with them that are given to change
Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or [being] his counsellor hath taught him?
Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and [who] instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations [are] as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 ΒΆ For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.
Isa 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap [their] hands.
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cman
Thanks for the input anotherDan and RainbowsGirl.
I think there is a lot to what is said about now as well.
Our current experience is probably in there as well.
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RainbowsGirl
Hey(((((Cman)))), :)
God's Word surely is all encompassing and he does cover it all! Very nice to know that His will will be done in the "Grand scheme" of it all!!!
What have You been studying Cman?
I am working on Daniel and Revelation...which is amazing. I always wanted to understand Revelation.... in light of history, other books of the bible and a few commentaries to sift
through.
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cman
Hi RainbowsGirl,
I'll have to give it some more thought.
Right now I gotta go to work.
But it sounds interesting and I think we can see some 'will' also.
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cman
If you could give me an idea of what you are doing with Daniel and Revelations, that might help with where I can chime in. Cause I don't know much and know a lot about what I don't know :).
I think what both Daniel and John were seeing were in real time for themselves and what they could see of the layers and changes that all go through.
I don't think it was some movie for them, like the word vision seems to indicate.
To me, History regarding these things would be different according to each person.
Although it stays current and changing.
Some could have already experienced what they were saying and speaking of.
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RainbowsGirl
Dear Cman,
I am using:
1. http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.html
2.http://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/davis_bob/ commentary - on Daniel and Revelation
3. My Bible and concordances and maps..etc.
He is a good commentary and it all plays on or downloads to the "Real player" ( a free down loadable media player).
I don't agree with His trinity viewpoint but I am able to sift that out and glean from his knowledge and to document his historical sources and findings!;
It is time consuming, but worth the effort!
Maybe, You, or anyone else would like to share their knowledge of these two inter-related books, as this is the 1st time I have ever understood Daniel or Revelations and yet I am still
not ready to really discuss it on a teaching level...It is still processing! After being told not to bother with it and finding how exciting and informative it truly is, I hope that others will add
what they know or how they view it.
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cman
Thanks RainbowsGirl, that helps. And I can relate to processing info as it comes and when to speak of it. I'll check it out.
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cman
I find it refreshing, that this fella sees that in Revelations the seals are opened.
Though that's not his exact words, it seems to be what he sees.
As opposed to Daniel where those things are sealed.
Although Daniel receives a promise as well in chapter 12.
The rest is a lot of history as you noted.
History of the writers and the happenings of the day.
But I don't think either Daniel or Revelations is dealing with world events.
As in the meat of what it's talking about.
But events of the individual soul and spirit of every person.
Whenever these things do happen within, it will be now then, as now is now.
And I believe has happened already in many, which was now then.
As well as a continual coming of the Lord's Day.
For each person.
Which also reminds me of Genesis 2:4.
So a few thoughts.
Not too much I hope.
Overall he seems honest.
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RainbowsGirl
Thank You ((((Cman)))))),
It was great of You to check it out so quickly and to share your thoughts with me! I am still working through it!
I hope that I have not disrupted or derailed your thread with my questions!!!
I brought it up in correlation in a way to what is GOD's will and how is it being done... relating to the subject of Your thread! I am sorry for the tangent!!!
I wish more people were responding to Your Thread here; I think that it would make for a really great discussion; but that is a privilege and a choice.
Since this is my 1st real in depth look at Revelation and Daniel..I am really excited that I can put some of it together and increase my knowledge and understanding, without having
exclusively a TWI take on it.
Now, I can look objectively at any viewpoints that may help me, and sift them to find GOD's true will! After all is said and done, GOD and GOD's Word and GOD's Will still remain the
same, established and unalterable, now and forever! My goal is to learn it as He, GOD intends it be known; Without altering it, or adding to it, or subtracting from it to suit my will.
Back to GOD's will being done!
I never was denominational or religious; That is all too complicated for me. Just way too many viewpoints of GOD for me. If the Bibles wrong then I deserve the consequences or
whatever! Although, I am convinced it isn't wrong at all!!!
All that I have ever truly wanted to know is GOD, His Will and His Word purely and unadulterated. He has loved, saved me in all manners, watched over me, healed, protected me, and
forgiven me. I could not list all that God has done for me or my children, Loved ones and friends!!! The absolute, very least that I can return back to Him is to love, honor, and trust His
will and Word in my all too human, but genuine way.
Love You Cman, thanks for taking the time and the effort to reply to my queries; and for your input here at GRSC!
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cman
Thanks for your words RainbowsGirl.
I do believe you are right on track with the topic.
In considering the Word, I don't think scripture is the Word.
Scripture is a result of the Word which is Christ.
And how we each understand that Word written in the heart,
we act according to the will that is the heart.
So it's in the heart that the matters of will are performed.
And not scripture is the word of God and will of God.
But a growing learning experience of process' being lived.
And our changing perspective, understanding and being shown Christ.
By way of being shown we can see.
Words from others can enhance and broaden our perspective.
As it is seen and heard in wisdom, spirit, and understanding.
That's what is being shown to me anyway.
So I don't have to rely on my ability but on that which is done inside.
Then the will can be executed by a decision.
To either think or do a thing or three or more.
Seeing and hearing from new eyes and new ears with a new heart and mind.
Is not something that can be forced, or forced into submission.
But allowed to occur at the spirit's will.
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
So our common sense is there to keep us going as well.
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RainbowsGirl
What do You think explains the many thousands of different interpretations by mankind of the Word/Scripture throughout all the ages, since GOD desires that His will is done and He is
not given to change. He allows us free will choice to hew out our own cisterns, but particularly states:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
and
Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
God's Word is His Will... It testifies of Him. How else would we know GOD??? By the billion different viewpoints and schools of thought??? To know GOD's Will/Word we must learn it,
decide to apply it and live it! We would not know Christ or to be Christlike without the Word of GOD. We were created to be godly, not ungodly!!!
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
I first learned these in TWI classes, but since then I have relearned them in the Bible with GOD as my teacher and instructor. They are still the same. God doesn't change, His Word and
Will doesn't change.
We change as we choose to; but should we change in anyway we choose to???: If GOD's Will is to be done should we change His Will, by our free will???Are we the clay now going to
fashion the potter??? HAHAHA Are we now going to instruct GOD to understand and accept our will over His Will/Word He gave us choice, but both in the Old and the New
Testament we see there are consequences for choices that are against His Will/Word. He has that right. He is the creator and we are the creations. We are specks to Him, but He in His
love made us worthy through His grace, mercy, lovingkindness and constancy and invariance. He exalted us but we will always still remain under Him and accountable to him in His good
time and pleasure!
Least we forget that this is only an age, "The Age of Grace", a small speck of time to GOD whose reckoning of time is incomprehensibly different than ours is. This age will pass at and by
GOD's Will/Word alone...not by our will. What can we change by our own wills that will effect GOD's Will or the age to come??? Free Will can bite You if You're NOT careful and it is
not tempered by GOD's Will/Word and meek to GOD!!!
Eph 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1Ti 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.
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cman
I do like those verses in Peter.
If the scripture is not by man's will.
Then neither can a man interpret them.
They must be interpreted by the Holy Spirit.
The strong man must be bound.
And his goods will be taken.
His interpretations, his thinking.
Does it not say he will come as a thief?
And also in Glory.
All of our knowledge of scripture,
our knowledge of customs and the times.
Does not interpret the scripture.
'came not in old time'
It will come in it's time and that time will be present.
Certainly it's good to know what the scriptures say.
And that is only on the surface of the scripture.
To get to the deep things of God it takes the Holy Spirit.
The deeper meaningS of scripture.
Then it's the Word living and real and experienced.
As we experience this Word, this is when it is seen.
As it is shown to us by the Spirit and not what we think.
And it's even better then, I'd say.
As Romans and many places say.
We must die to see Christ.
Not physical but mentally dead to our own thinking.
To let this peace that passes all understanding take hold.
Scripture is not the Word, Christ is the Word.
No man can see God and live.
The only begotten Son, Christ, declares God.
Is the declaration God?
Or is it what is sparked in the heart.
Which will take the declaration even further.
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RainbowsGirl
Well ((((Cman))),
I will have to give some thought to and to examine what You have said in Your last two post.
I do not fullly understand all of what you're saying, and I am not clear as to how you arrived at these thoughts???
Can You help me any to understand more clearly!???
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cman
I don't know...
I'm just glad we can speak to each other without any problem.
Both of us clearly want to understand and see more.
So...I'm not sure the words will come from me.
In order for you to see the desires of your heart and more.
That's not my department...:)
And I do learn from your words as well.
Somehow there is not any contradiction between yours and my words.
Just different perspectives of understandings.
Which will cross paths eventually.
As everyone's will I believe.....
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cman
Perhaps John chapter 1 would help with what I'm trying to communicate.
Or not. Might make it harder to see.
That section had always been a tough one to deal with in the past.
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RainbowsGirl
I also am very glad we can talk like this too,
I like learning from You too Cman. I respect You greatly and I like your style!
Ahhh, :) I thought it was about John chapter 1 ...that helps me a lot; except
as You say it is a difficult chapter!!!
I didn't want to assume where You were coming from or to infer something that You didn't state! It never hurts to ask hey?
Now I have to brush up on John chapter1.
I certainly hope for You and me that someone else more on Your par starts contributing to this fine and interesting thread, while I check things out a little more I have been gone out a
lot today
I am sure that You have been reworking what You learned for a far greater amount of time than I have.
I mull it over longer.
I like to read it...listen to many different word based commentaries and work it.
It is a process for me and take time!
So off I go to work on it!
See You when I get back Cman!
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RainbowsGirl
This is too precious ((((Cman)))))!
"o...I'm not sure the words will come from me.
In order for you to see the desires of your heart and more.
That's not my department..."
It isn't Your department :o
Imagine my shock and dismay
Thanks for Your patience!!!
Sometime I wish it wasn't my department either...it can be a down right difficult department at times!!! :unsure:
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cman
Better stated would be-
scripture by itself, is not the Word of God.
Without the Holy Spirit to show us what is meant and said,
it's just what we think it says.
Which in itself is not bad.
All things are pure to the pure.
Scripture can be found in many writings.
Not just the bible.
So they are certainly tied together.
Scripture,--- and the Word, which has been since the beginning,
are not exactly the same.
The Word of God without God is empty.
Without God to take us through it, we by ourselves cannot get it.
By our own doing alone, we cannot get the meaning.
Maybe that's worded better.
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RainbowsGirl
Thank you Cman,
Now we are on the same page! I understand that loud and clear!
"The Word of God without God is empty.
Without God to take us through it, we by ourselves cannot get it.
By our own doing alone, we cannot get the meaning.
Maybe that's worded better."
You have such amazing depth of understand!
John chapter 1 is just so very controversial! I can see it from at least three different viewpoints:
Trinitarian, Non trinitarian and as referring to as GOD's foreknowledge!
It matters mainly to GOD what I believe; so I don't argue it, dispute it or debate it much, I just keep it as I am able to understand it! Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
In the past 20 years that I have studied GOD's word I see too many clear references to
Christ being the Son of God rather than God the Son. If someone asked me about it, that is what I would teach and show them...every man decides His own heart!
It always seems to come back around to our free will and our level of understanding versus GOD's Will and knowing! Still His will is what will absolutely prevail! It is really only
logical,...Mankind wills are individual, unequal, too divided and incomparable to GOD's Will. GOD's will is not divided at all...it remains constant and trustworthy!
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cman
I appreciate the compliments, but it certainly is not my doing.
Any thing I know is brought together by God.
I could never pull it off myself.
Back to 'will the will'.
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
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RainbowsGirl
Hi Cman,
Good to see you!
Hey, don't laugh at me too hard, but for some reason I think better in the KJV; and I have some thoughts and questions about some of the verses you posted along with some that I
have added. I also want to thank You for bringing them up here as they are becoming far clearer to me than they have ever been before!
Jhn 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jhn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
This is conditional that we are His friend here, if we do the will of GOD!
Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Jhn 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Jhn 15:18 ΒΆ If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.
Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Jhn 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
Jhn 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Is hateth here opposing GOD and His Will or total rejection of GOD?
Jhn 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Why would they not have had sin?
Jhn 15:25 But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
Jhn 15:26 ΒΆ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
In Foreknowledge...Right?
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cman
Some good questions.
Just having them will lead to understanding.
I don't think I could answer them fully.
But they can be answered.
Even re learning the intent of those scriptures will happen.
And way to much has been made about foreknowledge imo.
There is so much to 'now' that we can be seen that the rest will show itself.
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cman
It's kind of cool though...
If words were presented about those verses or any other subjects.
The one hearing could get a whole different perspective.
Inspired and activated by one set of words can reveal a whole new set of words.
And reflections, perspectives and activation in anyone listening.
We speak, but we are not in control of what the hearer hears and what it inspires in others.
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