this is like the 3rd discussion about something like this? or maybe it's just me that thinks i've read something like this at least 3 times. and how many discussions are there on here about divorced parents where one parent is in the way and one is not and the one that is not is going through all sorts of litigation and expenses to keep their children from being exposed to the way? i know one thing and that is that i wish i hadn't been dragged to a "bible study" as a kid! the argument that "most churches are good christians and they would never hurt children" doesn't hold up because all "christian" denominations have been in the headlines for hurting children. this group is supposedly preying on inmates children which means at least one parent isn't around and more than likely the other parent isn't helping much or they'd already have their children in some activity so they wouldn't be caught in such a net. what if the kkk wanted to hold their "bible studies" there? the kkk bases everything they do on their version of the "christian" bible. what if it was the way? what if it was the family? or any other known cult? i just don't get "christians" that would raise real hell about any other group touting a reilgious viewpoint in public housing and other public places complaining about somebody not wanting their brand of religion in public housing and other public places. when i was a kid there was a tv program called "dinosaurs" and was about a dinosaur family with a baby and 2 teenagers and their daily lives, and there was a 3 or 4 part episode about W.A.R., and it was called this because it stood for We Are Right, and in the end nobody knew what they were fighting for except that they were sure they were right and the other side was wrong, but neither side know what they were right about but just that their being right was all important. sounds like "christianity" to me.
and one more thing is that anybody not totally intimidated by slavering lawyers would grasp that "equal access" is not about being forced to let a group in but is about if you let one group in you have to let all the other groups in. just because litigation is a bully thing that usually isn't decided by the courts but is given up on by the defendants because of cost and other concerns doesn't mean that the interpretation of the ruling by the bully lawyers is correct.
I think Fox just targets their audience and these are the stories that provoke response and interest.
As for the group, I don't really know much about them. It sounds like they have been reaching out to this community for years. Providing needed services and help . . . along with sharing the gospel.
As for children of inmates. Well, I love that they reach out to this population. With basically one in a hundred people in this country incarcerated, it is a much needed service.
It seems an extension of prison ministry. I wish it were as simple as the custodial parent finding other activities. . . just not that black and white.
Many, many woman in prison do not have a spouse or partner caring for their children. Many have family members, poor and burdened themselves, caring for their children.
Most inmates rely heavily on others for kindness and help. Some don't really care what happens to the ones they leave behind. . . if this group is legit. . . I applaud their efforts.
If not. . . why have they been there 20 years. . . someone has some explaining to do.
believe it or don't. . . but some people just want to help others. . . strange but true. . . there are christians who want to reach out and love. Crazy. . . I know.
why is it that only Fox News is the only news source for them?
It's like getting a warning from the "Weekly World News."
Can't help it WW - gotta ask.
First - I rarely "watch" any news whether it be CNN, MSNBC or Fox. I found out long ago that if you don't watch the news you don't often miss much. If it is really important then a colleague or two will tell me and I can catch up.
So...I confess I know little about Fox except that it is generally labeled as very right-wing and biased. However I notice that a lot of people seem to think that CNN is very left-wing and biased. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder perhaps?!?!?! Since I have equal disgust for the repetitive, putrid, hate-filled, limp-genitaled arguments of both the right and left it makes little difference to me. I have also noticed that both CNN and Fox carry identical stories when issued by AP, Reuters or other international news sources that claim independence.
That confession being made about ignorance of the news business - one should also ask the opposing question...
Why is it that the other big news sources do NOT mention them?
Both questions have equal merit from an objective perspective. I don't care about either company - let them all rot along side of all politicians regardless of political ideology...But ya know the old saying one good question deserves another.
Edited for the following:
Right wingers please do not answer the question with some grand left wing conspiracy bias theory on the part of the news.
Left wingers please do not answer the question with some grand right wing conspiracy bias theory on the part of the news.
Of course since every left winger I know claims not to be left but moderate and every right winger I know claims not to be right but moderate - no doubt some of you will post those tired old theories...Please...Please do not. You are not moderate when you post that junk...you're still in cult thinking be it left wing, right wing, or jesus wing.
Not that either or both of the above is/are not true - however I've heard both of those arguments too many times for too many years...I don't need, or want, another tired old fixated closed minded, IQ of 63, politically and religiously driven rerun of political theory and journalism. If you're going to post those kinds of responses please start another thread called something typically inane like None Dare Call it Conspiracy...well unless it's either from George Aar or GrouchoMarxJr in which case I will get some good belly laughs at their most cynically sick sense of humor
HEY!! How come NONE of those news agencies does good reporting on over three decades of efforts by NORML that have spanned both left and right tendency administrations?
The story is sort of muddled, not unlike the story a few weeks back of the home bible study in San Diego that had to get a license. The leader of that Bible Study was calling the city government Nazi's.
It only came out later (after some handy dandy reserach by WW) that it was because there was atraffic hazard and a neighbors car had been rammed by one of the bible study group members.
In this storyThe Chapter leader has his story of how wonderful they are but their are no interviews of the residents of the projects (who according to the story have the say in the matter ) or their objections. So the story is at best partial and there is no way of knowing the full story
I have no idea what they are doing because that was left out of the story but I am pretty sure that I would be very uncomfortable with anyone trying to convert my child, no matter how good they think they are......
First - I rarely "watch" any news whether it be CNN, MSNBC or Fox. I found out long ago that if you don't watch the news you don't often miss much. If it is really important then a colleague or two will tell me and I can catch up.
I like to have a variety of news sources- and compare stories online from different newspapers, TV stations and so on,
on the same story. Plus, I read the newspaper and listen to news on the radio.
(I only look something up online when an issue is raised.)
So...I confess I know little about Fox except that it is generally labeled as very right-wing and biased. However I notice that a lot of people seem to think that CNN is very left-wing and biased. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder perhaps?!?!?! Since I have equal disgust for the repetitive, putrid, hate-filled, limp-genitaled arguments of both the right and left it makes little difference to me. I have also noticed that both CNN and Fox carry identical stories when issued by AP, Reuters or other international news sources that claim independence.
That was one thing that caught my attention- this was not picked up on Reuters, the AP wire, the BBC....
Some LOCAL newspaper, TV station, etc should have carried this. The only local source I can find is one
SPECIALIZING in church news. I don't consider that a "neutral" source.
Don't believe in CNN if Fox is being ignored? Fine with me. If a story is legit, you can skip
CNN, Fox, MSNBC and still find lots of sources.
When something is LOCAL news, it's BIG news to local news sources!
Tulsa isn't a hole in the wall, it's a city with newspapers, TV stations, etc.
An absence of coverage by all those, by itself, DOES say something.
The story is sort of muddled, not unlike the story a few weeks back of the home bible study in San Diego that had to get a license. The leader of that Bible Study was calling the city government Nazi's.
It only came out later (after some handy dandy reserach by WW) that it was because there was atraffic hazard and a neighbors car had been rammed by one of the bible study group members.
In this storyThe Chapter leader has his story of how wonderful they are but their are no interviews of the residents of the projects (who according to the story have the say in the matter ) or their objections. So the story is at best partial and there is no way of knowing the full story
I have no idea what they are doing because that was left out of the story but I am pretty sure that I would be very uncomfortable with anyone trying to convert my child, no matter how good they think they are......
You know, I caught that too about the residents having a say. That made me wonder if something happened recently that was not appropriate.
I would think, if they have been welcome for so long. . . there may have been an issue, but you are right. . . partial story at best. It was written to envoke a response. I am sure it did.
Fox excels at tabloid news designed for a paticular segment of the population. They cornered a market.
Having been to visit a women's prison tonight, I would love to think they are providing activities for the inmates kids. It is such a huge need. Huge. Heartwrenching and huge.
I welcome all hands on deck as long as they are legit.
I do get the concern about conversion of kids. But, I have been to Christian camps and rally's as well as places which provide for underprivleged kids. It probably isn't what we might think of, given our time in TWI.
They are christian based, there is bible reading and something akin to an altar call, but not pressure or stress to convert. I imagine most know this sending their kids into such programs.
Heck, I used to help run one. I had parents of other faiths sending their kids. It was always with the understanding we respect that. We did.
Sometimes these people really do want to give and offer some place for the kids to go. They offer a Christian alternative. Sometimes they are great. . . sometimes not.
Given there is not enough info and the article neglects to answer certain questions. . . it leaves us hanging as to a conclusion.
Certainly by design. . . you make some excellent observations.
I'd like to think that they do some good but the way the article is written its a he said, she said.
Larry Koehn the chapter leader was told by Youth at Heart who wont answer any questions. Then they referred him to the housing authority who says they dont have jurisdiction. They said it was up to the residents.... Then does he or Fox talk to the residents? ...noooo..all there is so far is hearsay...<_<
.......
Yea well, and my friends friend told me, that his co workers exwife knew a woman once who was my fathers dentists assistant, who said that my Dad while under sedation said that my sister once said that my mothers cousin.....etc..to infinity.
(what a cluster$%^&)
What I dont understand is why the guy or Fox doesnt go to the residents to find out what the problem is and either iron it out or at least get the story and reasons straight.
I do get the concern about conversion of kids. But, I have been to Christian camps and rally's as well as places which provide for underprivleged kids. It probably isn't what we might think of, given our time in TWI.
They are christian based, there is bible reading and something akin to an altar call, but not pressure or stress to convert. I imagine most know this sending their kids into such programs.
Heck, I used to help run one. I had parents of other faiths sending their kids. It was always with the understanding we respect that. We did.
Sometimes these people really do want to give and offer some place for the kids to go. They offer a Christian alternative. Sometimes they are great. . . sometimes not.
I recommend a DVD I'd suggest that you check out. It's called 'Jesus Camp', and boy is it an eye opener. Its about a religious summer camp for kids that is run by some (IMHO) rather rabid Pentacostals/Fundamentalists, and in some respects would make LCM's manner of control seem mild by comparison. ... I kid you not! :blink:
Seriously? I'd ban these folks from the Housing Projects. ... In a heartbeat.
Don't believe in CNN if Fox is being ignored? Fine with me. If a story is legit, you can skip
CNN, Fox, MSNBC and still find lots of sources.
I missed one thing and so did you methinks...my lack of trust in CNN has nothing to do with Fox being ignored - as posted above I despise them all - heck I'm not even biased - I despise them all equally. If I wasn't too lazy I'd tell you about an interesting experiment we did with "big news" and consumers.
Just CMA here so you don't think I am somehow a Fox advocate, or some equal time advocate ,or trying to save the gay Foxes from the Carnal News Network.
I recommend a DVD I'd suggest that you check out. It's called 'Jesus Camp', and boy is it an eye opener. Its about a religious summer camp for kids that is run by some (IMHO) rather rabid Pentacostals/Fundamentalists, and in some respects would make LCM's manner of control seem mild by comparison. ... I kid you not! :blink:
Seriously? I'd ban these folks from the Housing Projects. ... In a heartbeat.
The Jesus Camp is a scary thing! There are bad people who slap the name Christian on something and carry on with impunity. I guess we all, to some degree, can relate to that premise. . . no?
The article is so lacking in detail. . . it leaves one unable to draw a conclusion. Typical Fox, written to elicit a response. . . fear.
It could actually be a case of religious persecution, it happens to Christians, Muslims, Wiccans, and most faiths. . . at one time or another.
It could be the group did something bad. . . and is justifiably banned. It would not shock me either way.
I know many stories of mother's dependent on the kindness and goodness of others. Some of them are first time offenders, who are spending more time in prison than violent offenders. Some rapists, murderers, and home invaders walk out sooner than these women will. There are such extenuating circumstances in these cases. . . to hear their stories is to have your heart broken. At least my bleeding heart.
So if this group is legit. . . and are providing a wholesome place for the children of inmates to go for a few hours. . . it is a real shame they are no longer welcome.
Why ban them? Because they are Christian and the Jesus Camp exists? Because LCM is out walking free? Because there is no God?
If I could roll up my sleeves and get to Tulsa. . . I would. . . I can't. . . are you going to do it? So, IF IF IF they are a good group. . . I hope they get to stay. The more people helping. . . the better.
Some Housing Authority projects in this country put war zone's to shame. A safe haven is a big deal and sadly a drop in the bucket.
so many discussions to respond to in my inbox and i've got about 5 minutes to use right so this is the shortest response i can handle right now. it doesn't have to be about the group itself either being "good" or "bad" but could just be that the equal access act written as it is there might be some other groups asking for access that are not what the residents want but if the residents let in one group they have to let in all groups. or maybe the residents just need to take back their space while internal politics work themselves out. nothing in the article says it has anything to do with the group itself.
"A Christian evangelical group that works to improve the lives of underprivileged children says it has been prohibited from conducting Bible study classes in public housing projects in Tulsa, Okla., potentially violating a Supreme Court ruling that upheld religious groups' right to the use of public institutions."
"A Christian evangelical group that works to improve the lives of underprivileged children says it has been prohibited from conducting Bible study classes in public housing projects in Tulsa, Okla., potentially violating a Supreme Court ruling that upheld religious groups' right to the use of public institutions."
A search just now on this story still shows 2 sources.
"Disclaimer: This article is a blog post and does not represent the views or opinions of Reiten Television, KXNet.com, its staff and associates and is wholly owned by the user who posted this content. "
And THEIR source-according to the link THEY posted- is FOX NEWS.
So, that quote should read, "ACCORDING TO FOX NEWS......"
TULSA, OK -- A Tulsa business has been flooded with hateful e-mails and phone calls after a misleading story aired on a cable news network. The story outraged viewers across the country, claiming religious activities had been banned from Tulsa's government housing complexes. The company being blamed for a ban on the words God or Christ says it's not true.
"It was just a big misunderstanding," said Youth At Heart Director Jocelyn McCarver.
Employees at Tulsa's "Youth at Heart" say misunderstanding or not, they're now dealing with hateful e-mails and phone calls. A story that aired on Fox News Channel said Youth at Heart, who provides recreational activities for Tulsa Housing Authority properties, wouldn't allow religious activities there. That got lots of folks riled up.
"Well, most of the emails have been from people out of state. So, I guess they're looking at Fox News. So, they're not supporting us anyways," said Youth At Heart Director Jocelyn McCarver.
But, religious activities are allowed on the properties. They just have to be scheduled through the residents themselves, not through the housing authority or its subcontractors.
A statement from the Tulsa Housing Authority shows it's a federally funded agency and therefore does not directly sponsor religious activities on its sites. They refer religious organizations to schedule those with resident associations.
"We're not banning Child Evangelism. We're not banning the use of the name of Jesus or God," said Youth At Heart Director Jocelyn McCarver.
Fox News Channel picked the story up after a religious group, Child Evangelism Fellowship, talked to the Tulsa Beacon newspaper.
"First of all we were quite shocked because we've been going to these housing complexes with this group for 20 plus years," said Larry Koehn with Child Evangelism Fellowship.
It wasn't until after the story hit the national airwaves and after millions of Americans were outraged they discovered they were wrong and that the whole issue was a simple misunderstanding.
"I need to be sure I know all my facts before I start talking to the news media and that I keep control of the situation for the sake of our ministry and for everyone involved," said Larry Koehn with Child Evangelism Fellowship.
Child Evangelism Fellowship will continue to provide its religious activities at Tulsa Housing Authority properties.
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WordWolf
For stories that are supposedly accurate,
why is it that only Fox News is the only news source for them?
It's like getting a warning from the "Weekly World News."
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brainfixed
this is like the 3rd discussion about something like this? or maybe it's just me that thinks i've read something like this at least 3 times. and how many discussions are there on here about divorced parents where one parent is in the way and one is not and the one that is not is going through all sorts of litigation and expenses to keep their children from being exposed to the way? i know one thing and that is that i wish i hadn't been dragged to a "bible study" as a kid! the argument that "most churches are good christians and they would never hurt children" doesn't hold up because all "christian" denominations have been in the headlines for hurting children. this group is supposedly preying on inmates children which means at least one parent isn't around and more than likely the other parent isn't helping much or they'd already have their children in some activity so they wouldn't be caught in such a net. what if the kkk wanted to hold their "bible studies" there? the kkk bases everything they do on their version of the "christian" bible. what if it was the way? what if it was the family? or any other known cult? i just don't get "christians" that would raise real hell about any other group touting a reilgious viewpoint in public housing and other public places complaining about somebody not wanting their brand of religion in public housing and other public places. when i was a kid there was a tv program called "dinosaurs" and was about a dinosaur family with a baby and 2 teenagers and their daily lives, and there was a 3 or 4 part episode about W.A.R., and it was called this because it stood for We Are Right, and in the end nobody knew what they were fighting for except that they were sure they were right and the other side was wrong, but neither side know what they were right about but just that their being right was all important. sounds like "christianity" to me.
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brainfixed
and one more thing is that anybody not totally intimidated by slavering lawyers would grasp that "equal access" is not about being forced to let a group in but is about if you let one group in you have to let all the other groups in. just because litigation is a bully thing that usually isn't decided by the courts but is given up on by the defendants because of cost and other concerns doesn't mean that the interpretation of the ruling by the bully lawyers is correct.
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brainfixed
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George Aar
I wonder how long before Faux News just abandons any inkling of journalistic responsibility and just starts making stories up out of whole cloth?
I think they're getting close now...
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geisha779
I think Fox just targets their audience and these are the stories that provoke response and interest.
As for the group, I don't really know much about them. It sounds like they have been reaching out to this community for years. Providing needed services and help . . . along with sharing the gospel.
As for children of inmates. Well, I love that they reach out to this population. With basically one in a hundred people in this country incarcerated, it is a much needed service.
It seems an extension of prison ministry. I wish it were as simple as the custodial parent finding other activities. . . just not that black and white.
Many, many woman in prison do not have a spouse or partner caring for their children. Many have family members, poor and burdened themselves, caring for their children.
Most inmates rely heavily on others for kindness and help. Some don't really care what happens to the ones they leave behind. . . if this group is legit. . . I applaud their efforts.
If not. . . why have they been there 20 years. . . someone has some explaining to do.
believe it or don't. . . but some people just want to help others. . . strange but true. . . there are christians who want to reach out and love. Crazy. . . I know.
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RumRunner
Can't help it WW - gotta ask.
First - I rarely "watch" any news whether it be CNN, MSNBC or Fox. I found out long ago that if you don't watch the news you don't often miss much. If it is really important then a colleague or two will tell me and I can catch up.
So...I confess I know little about Fox except that it is generally labeled as very right-wing and biased. However I notice that a lot of people seem to think that CNN is very left-wing and biased. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder perhaps?!?!?! Since I have equal disgust for the repetitive, putrid, hate-filled, limp-genitaled arguments of both the right and left it makes little difference to me. I have also noticed that both CNN and Fox carry identical stories when issued by AP, Reuters or other international news sources that claim independence.
That confession being made about ignorance of the news business - one should also ask the opposing question...
Why is it that the other big news sources do NOT mention them?
Both questions have equal merit from an objective perspective. I don't care about either company - let them all rot along side of all politicians regardless of political ideology...But ya know the old saying one good question deserves another.
Edited for the following:
Right wingers please do not answer the question with some grand left wing conspiracy bias theory on the part of the news.
Left wingers please do not answer the question with some grand right wing conspiracy bias theory on the part of the news.
Of course since every left winger I know claims not to be left but moderate and every right winger I know claims not to be right but moderate - no doubt some of you will post those tired old theories...Please...Please do not. You are not moderate when you post that junk...you're still in cult thinking be it left wing, right wing, or jesus wing.
Not that either or both of the above is/are not true - however I've heard both of those arguments too many times for too many years...I don't need, or want, another tired old fixated closed minded, IQ of 63, politically and religiously driven rerun of political theory and journalism. If you're going to post those kinds of responses please start another thread called something typically inane like None Dare Call it Conspiracy...well unless it's either from George Aar or GrouchoMarxJr in which case I will get some good belly laughs at their most cynically sick sense of humor
HEY!! How come NONE of those news agencies does good reporting on over three decades of efforts by NORML that have spanned both left and right tendency administrations?
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mstar1
The story is sort of muddled, not unlike the story a few weeks back of the home bible study in San Diego that had to get a license. The leader of that Bible Study was calling the city government Nazi's.
It only came out later (after some handy dandy reserach by WW) that it was because there was atraffic hazard and a neighbors car had been rammed by one of the bible study group members.
In this storyThe Chapter leader has his story of how wonderful they are but their are no interviews of the residents of the projects (who according to the story have the say in the matter ) or their objections. So the story is at best partial and there is no way of knowing the full story
I have no idea what they are doing because that was left out of the story but I am pretty sure that I would be very uncomfortable with anyone trying to convert my child, no matter how good they think they are......
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WordWolf
I like to have a variety of news sources- and compare stories online from different newspapers, TV stations and so on,
on the same story. Plus, I read the newspaper and listen to news on the radio.
(I only look something up online when an issue is raised.)
That was one thing that caught my attention- this was not picked up on Reuters, the AP wire, the BBC....
Some LOCAL newspaper, TV station, etc should have carried this. The only local source I can find is one
SPECIALIZING in church news. I don't consider that a "neutral" source.
Don't believe in CNN if Fox is being ignored? Fine with me. If a story is legit, you can skip
CNN, Fox, MSNBC and still find lots of sources.
When something is LOCAL news, it's BIG news to local news sources!
Tulsa isn't a hole in the wall, it's a city with newspapers, TV stations, etc.
An absence of coverage by all those, by itself, DOES say something.
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RumRunner
All excellent points - TNX
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geisha779
You know, I caught that too about the residents having a say. That made me wonder if something happened recently that was not appropriate.
I would think, if they have been welcome for so long. . . there may have been an issue, but you are right. . . partial story at best. It was written to envoke a response. I am sure it did.
Fox excels at tabloid news designed for a paticular segment of the population. They cornered a market.
Having been to visit a women's prison tonight, I would love to think they are providing activities for the inmates kids. It is such a huge need. Huge. Heartwrenching and huge.
I welcome all hands on deck as long as they are legit.
I do get the concern about conversion of kids. But, I have been to Christian camps and rally's as well as places which provide for underprivleged kids. It probably isn't what we might think of, given our time in TWI.
They are christian based, there is bible reading and something akin to an altar call, but not pressure or stress to convert. I imagine most know this sending their kids into such programs.
Heck, I used to help run one. I had parents of other faiths sending their kids. It was always with the understanding we respect that. We did.
Sometimes these people really do want to give and offer some place for the kids to go. They offer a Christian alternative. Sometimes they are great. . . sometimes not.
Given there is not enough info and the article neglects to answer certain questions. . . it leaves us hanging as to a conclusion.
Certainly by design. . . you make some excellent observations.
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mstar1
I'd like to think that they do some good but the way the article is written its a he said, she said.
Larry Koehn the chapter leader was told by Youth at Heart who wont answer any questions. Then they referred him to the housing authority who says they dont have jurisdiction. They said it was up to the residents.... Then does he or Fox talk to the residents? ...noooo..all there is so far is hearsay...<_<
.......
Yea well, and my friends friend told me, that his co workers exwife knew a woman once who was my fathers dentists assistant, who said that my Dad while under sedation said that my sister once said that my mothers cousin.....etc..to infinity.
(what a cluster$%^&)
What I dont understand is why the guy or Fox doesnt go to the residents to find out what the problem is and either iron it out or at least get the story and reasons straight.
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GarthP2000
Geisha,
I recommend a DVD I'd suggest that you check out. It's called 'Jesus Camp', and boy is it an eye opener. Its about a religious summer camp for kids that is run by some (IMHO) rather rabid Pentacostals/Fundamentalists, and in some respects would make LCM's manner of control seem mild by comparison. ... I kid you not! :blink:
Seriously? I'd ban these folks from the Housing Projects. ... In a heartbeat.
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RumRunner
I missed one thing and so did you methinks...my lack of trust in CNN has nothing to do with Fox being ignored - as posted above I despise them all - heck I'm not even biased - I despise them all equally. If I wasn't too lazy I'd tell you about an interesting experiment we did with "big news" and consumers.
Just CMA here so you don't think I am somehow a Fox advocate, or some equal time advocate ,or trying to save the gay Foxes from the Carnal News Network.
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geisha779
The Jesus Camp is a scary thing! There are bad people who slap the name Christian on something and carry on with impunity. I guess we all, to some degree, can relate to that premise. . . no?
The article is so lacking in detail. . . it leaves one unable to draw a conclusion. Typical Fox, written to elicit a response. . . fear.
It could actually be a case of religious persecution, it happens to Christians, Muslims, Wiccans, and most faiths. . . at one time or another.
It could be the group did something bad. . . and is justifiably banned. It would not shock me either way.
One of the people I know at a Woman's Prison, gave birth to her child while shackled to a hospital bed. http://www.famm.org/ProfilesofInjustice/St...ColletteMA.aspx
I know many stories of mother's dependent on the kindness and goodness of others. Some of them are first time offenders, who are spending more time in prison than violent offenders. Some rapists, murderers, and home invaders walk out sooner than these women will. There are such extenuating circumstances in these cases. . . to hear their stories is to have your heart broken. At least my bleeding heart.
So if this group is legit. . . and are providing a wholesome place for the children of inmates to go for a few hours. . . it is a real shame they are no longer welcome.
Why ban them? Because they are Christian and the Jesus Camp exists? Because LCM is out walking free? Because there is no God?
If I could roll up my sleeves and get to Tulsa. . . I would. . . I can't. . . are you going to do it? So, IF IF IF they are a good group. . . I hope they get to stay. The more people helping. . . the better.
Some Housing Authority projects in this country put war zone's to shame. A safe haven is a big deal and sadly a drop in the bucket.
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brainfixed
so many discussions to respond to in my inbox and i've got about 5 minutes to use right so this is the shortest response i can handle right now. it doesn't have to be about the group itself either being "good" or "bad" but could just be that the equal access act written as it is there might be some other groups asking for access that are not what the residents want but if the residents let in one group they have to let in all groups. or maybe the residents just need to take back their space while internal politics work themselves out. nothing in the article says it has anything to do with the group itself.
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geisha779
"A Christian evangelical group that works to improve the lives of underprivileged children says it has been prohibited from conducting Bible study classes in public housing projects in Tulsa, Okla., potentially violating a Supreme Court ruling that upheld religious groups' right to the use of public institutions."
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WordWolf
A search just now on this story still shows 2 sources.
1) Fox News.
2) http://www.kxmc.com/News/Nation/387998.asp
"Disclaimer: This article is a blog post and does not represent the views or opinions of Reiten Television, KXNet.com, its staff and associates and is wholly owned by the user who posted this content. "
And THEIR source-according to the link THEY posted- is FOX NEWS.
So, that quote should read, "ACCORDING TO FOX NEWS......"
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GT
Typical top notch reporting by Faux News:
Misunderstanding Over THA Religious Policy
Edited by GTAdd link
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WordWolf
TULSA, OK -- A Tulsa business has been flooded with hateful e-mails and phone calls after a misleading story aired on a cable news network. The story outraged viewers across the country, claiming religious activities had been banned from Tulsa's government housing complexes. The company being blamed for a ban on the words God or Christ says it's not true.
"It was just a big misunderstanding," said Youth At Heart Director Jocelyn McCarver.
Employees at Tulsa's "Youth at Heart" say misunderstanding or not, they're now dealing with hateful e-mails and phone calls. A story that aired on Fox News Channel said Youth at Heart, who provides recreational activities for Tulsa Housing Authority properties, wouldn't allow religious activities there. That got lots of folks riled up.
"Well, most of the emails have been from people out of state. So, I guess they're looking at Fox News. So, they're not supporting us anyways," said Youth At Heart Director Jocelyn McCarver.
But, religious activities are allowed on the properties. They just have to be scheduled through the residents themselves, not through the housing authority or its subcontractors.
A statement from the Tulsa Housing Authority shows it's a federally funded agency and therefore does not directly sponsor religious activities on its sites. They refer religious organizations to schedule those with resident associations.
"We're not banning Child Evangelism. We're not banning the use of the name of Jesus or God," said Youth At Heart Director Jocelyn McCarver.
Fox News Channel picked the story up after a religious group, Child Evangelism Fellowship, talked to the Tulsa Beacon newspaper.
"First of all we were quite shocked because we've been going to these housing complexes with this group for 20 plus years," said Larry Koehn with Child Evangelism Fellowship.
It wasn't until after the story hit the national airwaves and after millions of Americans were outraged they discovered they were wrong and that the whole issue was a simple misunderstanding.
"I need to be sure I know all my facts before I start talking to the news media and that I keep control of the situation for the sake of our ministry and for everyone involved," said Larry Koehn with Child Evangelism Fellowship.
Child Evangelism Fellowship will continue to provide its religious activities at Tulsa Housing Authority properties.
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geisha779
Fox loves to get people upset. They feed on it. There is an air of urgency. . . . a call to arms around these stories.
It is going to become evangelical christians self-inflicted wound.
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mstar1
uh- duh-- that just might be a good idea....
....much ado.....etc etc.
hope he runs his ministry with a clearer head than that........it still doesnt excuse Fox for their lack of research and fact checking
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brainfixed
uh, right. and this guy's "ministering" to children?
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