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On 6/29/2019 at 3:07 PM, DontWorryBeHappy said:

One of my ANCC Nursing certifications is in Psychiatric Nursing Pharmacology. This discipline is involved with the study of the active “ingredients”, mechanism of action, common side effects, and therapeutic results expectations available from the proposed medical therapies and interventions. I have have hundreds of  clinical hours in the treatment, counseling, and studying of patients whom TWIt would have classified and consigned to the “trash heap” of devil spirit possession. It was a wonderful journey of learning and understanding of not only the mental illnesses human beings have to deal with, but also the utter ridiculousness of Advanced Class Aryan propaganda, antiquated “Christian” superstitions, and the “mechanics” of devil spirit possession and it’s accompanying mandatory dissing of ALL forms of psychiatry and psychology as having been “born in a seance”. A true disservice to those suffering treatable and curable psychiatric disorders.

As a fellow believer in science and the scientific method, along with being a fan of and “dabbler” in quantum physics, I realize that things like “demons”, “possession”,  telekinesis, telepathy, etc, are indeed possible theoretically. That allows for the thorough scientific investigation of what TWIt referred to as all things “spiritual” with an open and curious mind based on the objectitivity of the scientific method. An example of this is the investigation into Einstein’s hypotheses of “spooky motion at a distance” and “time travel”.

Point being.....the possibility of “devil spirit possession” exists. However the doctrines and “procedures” of dictor paul re: “the holy spirit field” are fabricated, fictitious, and fraudulent imo. They are no different in effect and “results” than what is depicted in “The Exorcist”, or “The Exorcism Of Emily Rose” and other horror film cult favorites. They are also no more proveable, efficacious, or “real” than what those films display, imo. Fundamentalist Christian teachings, theories, and understandings of “devils and demons” is NOT objective nor does it rely upon scientific method to validate its claims or doctrines. It is basically a collection of hand-me-down, ancient superstitions and hearsay regarding heretofore inexplicable human behaviors or experiences, imo. Can such things as described in the AC happen? The possibility exists, but scientific study and investigation has yet to yield objective proof. So, as a healthcare professional, I choose to go with the proveable, predictable, and repeatable therapies which have been discovered and implemented in the clinical arena. At the same time, I do not discount the possibility of miracles, healings, and other inexplicable “spiritual” phenomena.

I believe the teachings and practices of modern fundamentalist or charismatic “Christians” in the “devil spirit realm”  are disinformed, inappropriate, misguided, dangerous, and damaging to those they are applied to. They are close-minded and suspicious, as well as ineffective and anecdotal evidentially. TWIt doctrines and practices in this “holy spirit field” are subjective at best, and totally based in the personal perversions and peccadilloes of vp wierwille, BG Leonard, J.E. Stiles, Glenn Clark, Rufus Mosely, Earl Stanley Jones, Rosalind Rinker, K.C. Pillai, Oral Roberts, E. Kenyon, and others whom wierwille used to “credit” with inspiring or mentoring him. They are based completely on personal experience and “private interpretation”, NOT Biblical “research, teaching, and fellowship”. TWIt adherents are dangerously self-deluded in their fairy tale understanding of devil spirits and possession. They are misguided and become religious bigots just like Falwell Jr., Franklin Graham, Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, Jim Bakker, all the Swaggarts, the Bo and Stanley Reahards, the Sue Pierces, the Gerald Wrenns, the Charlie Quillens, the Mark Frontczaks and Victor Barnards, The SOWERS, Greg Backes, Maurice Goulet, John Lynn and his latest “ministry”, TLTF, the Terry and Melanie Wilsons in Black Forrest, CO,  Momentus and all the other Dan Tocchini cults, STFI, Vinny Finnegan’s Living Hope Ministries International, “Dr.” Dale Sides and his bs “Liberating ministries for Christ international”, Brian Bliss and his phony “Christian Leadership and Service Academy”, Geer’s “Word Promotions Ltd.” franchises, Earl and Nancy Burton, Kris and Katie Kile and their Momentus offshoot, Howard Walker and his WC FB Page, Steve Sann and his John Richeson Ning Way Corps site, Jerry Carr, Bob Hanna, Bob and Kathy Mathieson, Paul Norcross, Larry Panarello, Revival and Restoration with Boob and Doody Moneyhands, Michael and Cindy Fort, Ed and Jackie Horney, et al, Michael Rood and his Rood Awakening Jewish roots cult, and all the rest of the domnionist, alt-right neo-Nazi cults, offshoots, and splinters of that horror show in new Knoxville, Ohio.

DWBH, excellent post!!  I remember years ago, all the Bulls--t, we had to go through to see a doctor, while in Way World.  I hated that "Third-Aid," nonsense!!  Inside of seeing a doctor, people would pray for you.  I think praying for others, is wonderful, but sometimes you need to see a doctor, and take medication.  

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On 6/30/2019 at 8:53 PM, Kathy Niclaus said:

Per the capacity for real care and compassion from non-straight people, and benefitting from it- I have been a tangible recipient.

I am going to give you the skeletal backstory of a WOW year romance, 1978-1979. It was with someone who was bisexual but sexually inexperienced and ambiguous. Becoming involved with the ministry committed him to heterosexuality. He asked me to marry him and I accepted. He went WOW, I went back home at the end of my WOW year. On Christmas Eve, he broke it off by phone. Naturally I was crushed. At the following Rock of Ages we were cordial, I got the truth out of him one night after three beers, and that was the end of it. We maintained semi contact at subsequent Rock of Ages but not in between. The last time I saw him was at the message board in 1983.  6 years later I was married, cooking dinner, I get a phone call out of the blue. It was him. He had made phone calls using directory assistance to family in New Jersey and found me.  I think he was rather shocked to learn that I was married. I was already in counseling because after all I had married a sociopath but of course that wasn't anything that was acknowledged by counseling clergy especially not when he was in an income bracket that provided handsome abundant sharing.  There was a Thanksgiving card in the mail, and then a Christmas card. The next time I heard from him was a phone call on Christmas Day.  He was surprised I had never received a letter he sent.  I realized then the sociopath intercepted it from the apartment mailbox cluster.  That was 1989. After that all contact was lost.  Fast forward to 2015. After sporadic attempts over the years, once I became computer literate, I was finally successful in re-establishing contact with him. He was in a domestic partnership of 22 years with a man. After multiple unfulfilling relationships with other women after me, he turned his attentions to guys.  Emotionally he still relates to women, but physically his attraction towards men had grown. I immediately told him I did not judge him on his sexuality.  It did not take us long to pick up our friendship where it had left off, and given the years to grow up and mature and have the perspective and understanding of trial and experience, it was actually much better and easier.  I unburdened my conscience by apologizing for my many faux pas and rash remarks made in youth.  Gratefully he had a much kinder memory of me and my behavior then I had of my behavior at the time. Or perhaps over the years he chose to remember the good things because there were a lot of good times between us, and a lot of times yes,  I did try to be the good girlfriend, especially when he went out on the  WOW field with care packages, etc.  So pretty soon things were kind of like they used to be, with email replacing letters, and me sending the occasional box with something home-baked or something unobtainable where he lives, like fantastic everything bagels.  Then there is Christmas and his birthday.

So here are some photos-

Fast forward to my birthday in 2016- FedEx shows up- large Australian opal surrounded by two rows of diamonds set in 14k gold ring comes from him for my birthday. He remembered that way back in 1979, when we were two penniless 19 year olds, that my dream engagement ring was an opal set with diamonds.

That was not the only gift. The other gift is a 22" strand of real multicolor south seas pearls, each 20mm in diameter, with a 18k gold clasp with an inlaid diamond.

For Christmas 2016, my birthstone Peridot and diamond earrings, 14k, and Peridot and I forget the other stone set in 14k ring.

Birthday 2017 I forgot the stone (I have the tags saved) six carat pink oval stone crowned with diamonds in a setting that makes it look like a pineapple and in homeage to my residence in Arizona a vintage pin of a roadrunner with Ruby and diamond. One piece has I8k one has 14k, I forget. 

I would say I have definitely benefitted from my friendship with a gay man in my life- my ex husband was never so generous to me, quite the opposite. And the benefit has not just been material things. He has been a wonderful thoughtful friend, as is his partner. 

So, ya never know.......

 

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Kathy, beautiful!! 

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On the overall topic of how the Way dealt with homosexuality, I take it back to doctrine. VPW believed the Bible taught that homosexuality was the result of a devil spirit, of "possession". I don't recall him ever getting into the biology of it all or trying to learn if there was any other reason for it occurring. He recognized that genetics and overall physiology could cause a person to be inclined in any number of different ways, and used the sports type analogies to illustrate that as well as other things like upbringing, etc. So he knew enough about "environment versus heredity" psychology and science to form a position on it from what he understood of the Bible. He didn't like to take things to their ultimate outcomes logically though despite his emphasis on "being logical" because if he had he would have had to answer at the least that the logical outcome of the state of "sin", man's fallen nature as the Bible spoke of it would produce a biology that would pass on traits from generation to generation and that those traits would express themselves in progeny. Of course he knew that and included that in some of his Advanced Class teaching on these "spirit possession" topics, and in so doing had to teach that the only "real" solution to it as a human problem was the spiritual "new birth" to right size and correct the physical degenerative results of sin in human nature.............but to fully embrace that he would have had to recognize that even the Bible itself states that the new birth is not a 100 percent physical correction of our human shortcomings and is rather a "promise" of a "hope" and that the "treasure is in an earthen vessel........a reality seen if only by the fact that everyone ever healed by anyone in the New Testament then still someday died, including Lazarus who apparently died. Twice. Once all of this is extrapolated out to practical applications, the question of human sexuality becomes a much much broader topic. Easy enough to spiel off in a 10 minute teaching that then falls apart under scrutiny, because it's not "The Word", it's someone's version of it.

From the years of say, 1969 through 1980, I heard him teach multiple times on the topic in Advanced Class sessions, Corps meetings and in response to events and various kinds of media coverage. After that until he died in 1985 I had less contact with his live teaching so I can't say where he might have taken it but it would be news to me and others who had heard him teach on the topic many times if he explored other aspects of it. He taught that homo's are possessed by a devil spirit, which could be cast out, or repelled by the new birth and a life of living by God's Word, scripture.

I would say for all those who became fully embedded and engrossed in that teaching (especially the form of it that Craig fronted) there was little compassion felt for homosexuals. He created an entire society that celebrated ridiculing and debasing homosexuality, justified in his mind by the fact that doing so was simply ridiculing Satan and the devil spirits possessing people. If he was in fact striking out against his own family and close associates it makes it all the more vicious - it wasn't just business, it was personal.

Craig wasn't alone in that regard, he and a few others of the early group were fully on board for that, without much thought about it at all. He and a few others gloried in how quickly they could accept and start repeating anything that dripped out of VPW's mouth the night before. It was embarrassing to see all these red blooded young men act that way, until I realized some of them had their eye on being the next Pres' and were willing to trade their manhood to be his "transition plan".

For the rest of us it was still all about "people". Craig could live ungodly all day long in his crystal "Word" bubble and convince himself he was still God's Man, while attacking and flailing on homo's, homo sympathizers and anyone who smelled suspiciously homo to him that day. And lots of that Emporia crew had been fed that and backed it.

Not everyone though - but if you swallowed VPW and then Craig's limited view understanding of it and fed whatever was bugging you that day with it you didn't have much compassion or care for people, other than to smugly make fun of them.

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On 7/16/2019 at 8:02 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Kathy, beautiful!! 

I know, right?!

If you could have been at my house on August 9, 2016, when I shut the front door from FedEx, and opened the box, and then peeled away the package, and first saw a small velvet ring box and thought "what the hell?" and found that opal ring, but then the big velvet box- like Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman"- opening it up to those pearls- REAL natural pearls- I just could not believe it. Unbelievable. The moral of the story is be nice to those gay ex-boyfriends, because you never, never, never know!!!!!!!!  Maybe it's karma paying me back for all the money I wasted by donating ten percent and then some of my income to TWIT as someone here calls it, LOLOLOL! Because I know even though the independent appraisal that came with those pearls was probably on the "padded" side, they are easily alone worth close to what I contributed to TWIT out of my earnings, since most of my income was made after I was out (my ex-husband was the major earner while I was in.)  Hmmm, it's been awhile since I've worn them, think I'll get them out for an upcoming outing. Thanks for the reminder!

Kathy

 

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1 hour ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

I know, right?!

If you could have been at my house on August 9, 2016, when I shut the front door from FedEx, and opened the box, and then peeled away the package, and first saw a small velvet ring box and thought "what the hell?" and found that opal ring, but then the big velvet box- like Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman"- opening it up to those pearls- REAL natural pearls- I just could not believe it. Unbelievable. The moral of the story is be nice to those gay ex-boyfriends, because you never, never, never know!!!!!!!!  Maybe it's karma paying me back for all the money I wasted by donating ten percent and then some of my income to TWIT as someone here calls it, LOLOLOL! Because I know even though the independent appraisal that came with those pearls was probably on the "padded" side, they are easily alone worth close to what I contributed to TWIT out of my earnings, since most of my income was made after I was out (my ex-husband was the major earner while I was in.)  Hmmm, it's been awhile since I've worn them, think I'll get them out for an upcoming outing. Thanks for the reminder!

Kathy

 

Kathy, I would wear them everyday!! I love Pearls, and don't care who sent them to you. They are fabulous!! I know very little about real jewelry, but even I could see they are real. Enjoy!

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On 6/30/2019 at 2:00 PM, Kathy Niclaus said:

Hey Oldies, 

By any chance, were you Way Corps, on Assignment in New Jersey?  Lemme know!

Kathy

 

Negative.

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