likeaneagle, EVEN if it is in 'the word', THEY took it out of context. Didn't we learn that in piffle??? Just like the lockbox thing. A bunch of crap to keep people from knowing the REAL TRUTH of this sick organization.
OMG there are so many times this phrase was used to manipulate folks into silence.
This was used on the parents of molested children to get them to shut up....it was used to silence rape victims...and to hide spousal abuse.
It was usually followed by the equally famous phrase to allow it to be handled *in house* that it was spiritually wrong to take a brother in Christ before the *worldly* courts
Sure, it says it in the Bible, but as with so many topics, TWI taught that part incorrecty, as well!
2Cr 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Cr 6:4 But in all [things] approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Cr 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Cr 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Cr 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Cr 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and [yet] true;
2Cr 6:9 As unknown, and [yet] well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Cr 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and [yet] possessing all things.
So how did TWI get that wrong:
In verse 3, the word translated "offense" in the KJV is the Greek word "proskope" (from the word "proskopto", or to stumble). Proskope should be translated either "the event of stumbling," or "to do something to cause another to stumble."
In verse 4, the word translated "approving" in the KJV is the Greek word "sunistao" (from the words "sun" (with) and "histemi" (stand)). Sunistao should be translated to stand with, to associate with, etc.
In verses 6:5 - 6:7 all of the usages of both the words "in" and "by" (up through by the armour of righteousness) are all the greek word "en" (which implies a static remaining within).
The next three usages of "by" (v7: by the armour of righteousness through v8: by evil report and good report) are the greek word "dia" (which implies a movement completely through).
Here's another key one: verse 8:
honour = docha -- meaning exulted, splendor (a noun)
disnohour = atimia -- from 'time' (a = a negative, 'time' = value)...thus, one of no value (a noun)
evil report = dusphemia -- meaning a defamation (a noun)
good report = euphemia -- meaning a praise (a noun)
as = hos -- meaning 'like'
deceivers = planos -- an ADJECTIVE (note the words so far in this litany from v4 through v8 were NOUNS) -- planos means deceptive
true = alethes (from lanthano, to hide...therefore a = not, lethes = hidden) -- another ADJECTIVE, meaning not hidden
And so on. Don't want to spend all day on this. And I'm sure you don't want to spend all day reading it. The point is that the KJV, in its use of archaic English, does not convey an accurate translation for these modern days of the words.
Verses three and four could easily and more accurately be understood as meaning: doing nothing to cause my brothers to stumble, that the ministry not be blamed, but in everything standing together as the servants of God -- and then go through the litany of contradictions contained in v4 - v10.
But that's not how TWI handled that verse, was it? From what I've gathered here and what I've seen, apparently it was used to discount the ministry or its leadership taking the blame for anything.
1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
It reads better in the Revised Standard Version
3 We put no obstacle in any one's way, so that no fault may be found with our ministry,
It really is about our ministry not a ministry as in The Way- another words walk well (make your momma proud)Dove translation It's about having the respect of others so that to the end you have enterance or their trust to help them when needed. Offf to work I'll see later what Walter did with this in the Corps notes just for fun.
Well, I think it was used both ways in extreme in the 90's.
"No, you cannot sleep over your fiance's house, let not the ministry be blamed!"
"You shouldn't wear that outfit, or witness in it, lest the ministry be blamed!"
"No you should not do that multi-level marketing business........"
"no alcohol at your party......."
let us not forget about how "clean" everything had to be...................gotta bleach those counter tops!
Now, I am not saying that any or all of these are right to do, but, it was always about how the "ministry" would look and not about the individual.
I want to make right decisions based on a love for God and for others that I am in contact with. Yes, so don't become a stumbling block to them. Better motive.
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act2
likeaneagle, EVEN if it is in 'the word', THEY took it out of context. Didn't we learn that in piffle??? Just like the lockbox thing. A bunch of crap to keep people from knowing the REAL TRUTH of this sick organization.
Just my humble opinion.
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rascal
OMG there are so many times this phrase was used to manipulate folks into silence.
This was used on the parents of molested children to get them to shut up....it was used to silence rape victims...and to hide spousal abuse.
It was usually followed by the equally famous phrase to allow it to be handled *in house* that it was spiritually wrong to take a brother in Christ before the *worldly* courts
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markomalley
Sure, it says it in the Bible, but as with so many topics, TWI taught that part incorrecty, as well!
So how did TWI get that wrong:
In verse 3, the word translated "offense" in the KJV is the Greek word "proskope" (from the word "proskopto", or to stumble). Proskope should be translated either "the event of stumbling," or "to do something to cause another to stumble."
In verse 4, the word translated "approving" in the KJV is the Greek word "sunistao" (from the words "sun" (with) and "histemi" (stand)). Sunistao should be translated to stand with, to associate with, etc.
In verses 6:5 - 6:7 all of the usages of both the words "in" and "by" (up through by the armour of righteousness) are all the greek word "en" (which implies a static remaining within).
The next three usages of "by" (v7: by the armour of righteousness through v8: by evil report and good report) are the greek word "dia" (which implies a movement completely through).
Here's another key one: verse 8:
And so on. Don't want to spend all day on this. And I'm sure you don't want to spend all day reading it. The point is that the KJV, in its use of archaic English, does not convey an accurate translation for these modern days of the words.
Verses three and four could easily and more accurately be understood as meaning: doing nothing to cause my brothers to stumble, that the ministry not be blamed, but in everything standing together as the servants of God -- and then go through the litany of contradictions contained in v4 - v10.
But that's not how TWI handled that verse, was it? From what I've gathered here and what I've seen, apparently it was used to discount the ministry or its leadership taking the blame for anything.
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WhiteDove
2 Corinthians 6 KJV.
1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
It reads better in the Revised Standard Version
3 We put no obstacle in any one's way, so that no fault may be found with our ministry,
It really is about our ministry not a ministry as in The Way- another words walk well (make your momma proud)Dove translation It's about having the respect of others so that to the end you have enterance or their trust to help them when needed. Offf to work I'll see later what Walter did with this in the Corps notes just for fun.
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bliss
Well, I think it was used both ways in extreme in the 90's.
"No, you cannot sleep over your fiance's house, let not the ministry be blamed!"
"You shouldn't wear that outfit, or witness in it, lest the ministry be blamed!"
"No you should not do that multi-level marketing business........"
"no alcohol at your party......."
let us not forget about how "clean" everything had to be...................gotta bleach those counter tops!
Now, I am not saying that any or all of these are right to do, but, it was always about how the "ministry" would look and not about the individual.
I want to make right decisions based on a love for God and for others that I am in contact with. Yes, so don't become a stumbling block to them. Better motive.
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