Nah, I figure by this time they'll just have to DEAL with spoilers. :)-->
I knew Gollum was going to pop up again after his fight with Frodo (which was awesome, by the way). And the look of pure joy on his face when he finally got the ring back was incredibly done.
What are the differences between the movie and the book?
Saruman's fate and the Scouring of the Shire are the two big ones most people mention.
The confrontation with Shelob is supposed to be in The Two Towers, but they moved it to Return of the King (great move, by the way).
Faramir is underplayed in the movie, but one of the most touching scenes is when Pippin sings for Denethor while Faramir is on a suicide mission. There's also a hint of some chemistry between him and Eowyn, but it's not explored at all. I hope the extended DVD gets further into that, if there's a "that" to get further into.
Since I'm going to see the movie anyway, ... I heard that the Gollum bites Frodo's finger off when he fights to get the ring back. Does he in the movie?
Now is that a gross image or what? :D-->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
I haven't seen the movie yet Rafael, but in the book, Eowyn and Faramir are both recovering from their nazgul wounds in the House of His Healing Presence...er...Houses of Healing :D-->
Eowyn is in love with Aragorn, Faramir falls for Eowyn, who eventually returns his love. They marry after Theoden is buried in Rohan.
That's not in the movie???!!!
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
That scene is in the movie. It's powerful as hell.
Oakspear,
Eowyn is in love with Aragorn. That's in the movie. Aragorn does not return her love. That's in the movie.
Faramir falls for Eowyn, recuperating in the Way Woods, marrying after Theoden's burial: none of that is in the movie. Hopefully some of it will be in the extended dvd.
The odds against the Men aren't nearly so great as appear on the screen. Minas Tirith was beleaguered, but when the Rohirrim arrive they even out the fight quite a bit.
Elrond doesn't visit Aragorn in Rohan to give him the sword Anduril. Aragorn gets Anduril before the Fellowship leaves Rivendell in book 1. Elrond's son Elrohir visits Aragorn in Rohan to remind him of the Paths of the Dead. Legolas does not kick nearly as much a$$ in the books as he does in the film, and Gimli is hardly comic relief.
Sam wants to go with Frodo at the Grey Havens, but is told he did not bear the Ring long enough to have to go. In the appendices, we find that after Rosie's death from old age, Sam finally gives the Red Book to his daughter Elanor and takes the ship to join the other Ringbearers.
Merry, at age 102, visits King Eomer for a while before Eomer's death, and Merry and Pippin both are interred next to King Aragorn when they all die, some 120 years after the end of the story. Upon the King's death, Legolas builds a ship and Gimli acompanies him down the River Anduin and out over the sea, the last of the Fellowship.
I would say that most of the changes from the book to the movie were in the category of details. There were very few changes that were in any way major.
For instance the Paths of The Dead change that Zix mentions. Elladan and Elrohir (Elrond's sons) play such a small part in the book, and do not appear "on stage" until this scene, that introducing them (as well as Aragorn's fellow Dunedain rangers) would only confuse by adding to an already large cast of "main" characters.
Other changes were in the manner of compressing or alluding to things that are not fully developed. Like the above mentioned Faramir-Eowyn romance. The whole Houses of Healing chapter would have, IMHO, bogged the movie down at a critical point, the meaningful glances they give each other at the coronation tell the tale.
The change that I saw that was most significant was the decision to not include "The Scouring of the Shire", and the connected fate of Saruman.
For those who didn't read the book, the returning Hobbits, as well as Gandalph run into Saruman and Grima Wormtongue on the way to Rivendell. Treebeard got soft-hearted and couldn't bear to keep him caged up. By the time the hobbits return to The Shire, they find that a group of ruffians have taken over. Pippin and Merry organize a rebellion and take back their country. The leader is revealed to be Saruman.
Frodo spares Saruman's life, but Wormtongue knifes Saruman in the back after Saruman kicks him. Hobbit archers kill Wormtongue.
There have been arguments raging on LOTR web sites for over a year about this ommission. I would have liked to see the book adhered to in this case, but it did not detracy from the spirit of the book, and things still were tied up nicely.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
The Rohirrim joining the battle shouting "Death, death, death" was awesome.
The look on the faces of the Orcs when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli jump off the pirate ship, then the LOOK on their faces when the dead army materializes.
Merry wounding the Nazgul and Eowyn killing him. (the Nazgul, not Merry!)Quite a few women in the audience cheered when she exclaims "I am no man"
The depiction of Denethor's insanity was scary.
The look on Frodo's face when he claims the ring just before putting it on at Mount Doom shows more than a little insanity in his eyes. Gollum's look just before he lands in the lava is priceless.
There were parts of the movie where I literally cried, others when I cheered. I was on the edge of my seat despite having read the book at least a dozen times.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
One potential problem that I will have to rewatch to double check for is Frodo's finger. I'm sure you all remember when Gollum bit off the finger to get the ring, leaving a bloody stump and also that Frodo had it bandaged up in the scene where he was in bed. However, I'm not sure about the scene with Sam and Frodo sitting on the rock, and I'm pretty sure that later scenes show Frodo with a full finger again. I don't know for sure and will watch it again when it comes out on DVD, but I do think they messed up there.
Of course, that's nothing compared to what I read about the first one which apparently shows powerlines and either a plane or car (I forgot which.)
I don't know about that, P-Mosh. I watched it again yesterday and didn't notice any finger inconsistencies. It's in bandages when he wakes up and Gandalf is there. It's also very clearly a stump when he's finishing up his book.
If you ever have a few months to kill, go to The Movie Mistakes Web Page. It should keep you busy for a little while. For example, a car could be seen in the distance in the scene in Fellowship where Frodo and Sam are leaving the Shire ("If I take one more step, it will be the farthest from home I've ever been"). They fixed it for the home video and DVD release.
A fave mistake of mine is a little one: In the Two Towers, just before it looks like Pippin's about to get tramples by a horse, take a close look at his hands. They're unbound. A few seconds later, he crawls over and cuts the ropes off his bound hands.
The scouring of the shire would have been a nice touch, but the telling of the tale was exhausting enough as it was. I put it in the same category as Tom Bombadil: You miss it if you know it belongs there, but for those of us who were unaware, it's not a big deal.
I skimmed The Hobbit, which I do intend to read in detail another time.
Right now I just finished the chapter "A Knife in the Dark."
It's amazing how "talky" these books are. I mean, The Fellowship of the Ring is a talky movie, so I figured the book would be even more so. I just didn't figure on Aragorn reciting an entire poem on Weathertop while everyone knows the Black Riders are on their way. :)-->
FOTR is the talkiest if the three, fortunately. Why it takes them a couple hundred pages to get from The Shire to Rivendell is beyond me, but since Tolkien wrote them to entertain his son while he was away at war, I suppose it might have been intentional to stretch things out a bit.
The good thing about The Hobbit is that it's a self-contained story--plus, what fantasy epic would be complete without at least ONE dragon in it? ;)--> (And a badass dragon, at that. Smaug could wipe the floor with every other literary dragon.)
If you don't watch out, you'll (heavens forfend!) start playing Dungeons & Dragons... muhahahahaha!
Secret Signature of the Day==v
"You think you hate it now, but wait till you drive it..."
Yeah, I guess I stopped reading once Bilbo got the ring, since that was why I was looking at it in the first place.
I read Flight to the Ford yesterday and was a few pages into Many Meetings, which is so much cooler than the movie. Frodo meets Gloin (which answered my earlier question about Gloin and Balin, although Gimli hasn't been introduced yet).
I liked flight to the ford better in the movie only because they made it so much more clear that the stabbing of Frodo was a dangerous thing. In the book it's like, "Oh my, I've been stabbed. This hurts somewhat. Hey, wait, I can't move my arm. Is that tea you're making? Can you rub it on my shoulder? Thanks. There, much better. Whew."
Only later do we learn the gravity of the stabbing.
In the movie, it's like:
FRODO: F-ING OWWWWWWW! Ack!
SAM: What's the matter Mr. Frodo?
FRODO: Gurgle.
STRIDER: Oh s--t, Oh s--t, Oh s--t.
MERRY: What's the matter?
STRIDER: He's turning into one of them. We need to get him to Rivendell, which is six days away, but we need to get him there like an hour ago. If only there was an unbelievably hot Elf around who could ride a horse faster than the wind.
I FINALLY saw the movie last night (Christmas kinda got in the way). I immediately came home and skimmed thru ROTK because I didn't recall the dead guys helping win the battle in Minas Tirith. They didn't. They helped in other ways - but they didn't zip around the city like the film depicted.
I was very disappointed when I read that Peter Jackson didn't even think about filming "The Scouring of the Shire" because he never liked that chapter in the book (that was in Newsweek in late November)!
Saurman will be dealt with in the extended DVD version, but without the chapter that was mentioned above, it will obviously be something the screenwriters saw fit to weave into the plot.
They also don't mention that Merry & Pippin have grown considerably taller from drinking Treebeard's water!
Oh - they also left out the fact that the reason Dethanor goes nuts is because he also has a palintir that he's been peering into for a while and Sauron has made him go mad.
The palintir Pippin finds is the one that was thrown out of Isingard by Wormtongue in an attempt to hit Gandalf.
Funny - I hadn't read the information in the appendices in a long time until last night. I'd forgotten that Sam goes off after Rosie dies.
Lotsa things - but I still thought it was fabulous. And Andy Serkis deserves some kind of award for Gollum, as does Sean Astin, who was more of a hero than Frodo, IMO.
RAFE - you never read the books??? Bro - dig in!
Oh - someone told me that Jackson was going to make "The Hobbit" - anyone know if it's true?
Hope R. color>size>face>
P.S. Did any of you find the movie a bit gay? (not that there's anything wrong with that!)
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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Zixar
Rafael: You can use the white-on-white trick for spoiler coverage:
Which looks like:
Spoiler text goes here.
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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Raf
Nah, I figure by this time they'll just have to DEAL with spoilers.
:)-->
I knew Gollum was going to pop up again after his fight with Frodo (which was awesome, by the way). And the look of pure joy on his face when he finally got the ring back was incredibly done.
I will see it again and again and again.
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Zixar
I keep forgetting you didn't know what was going to happen...
;)-->
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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Raf
For those who know:
What are the differences between the movie and the book?
Saruman's fate and the Scouring of the Shire are the two big ones most people mention.
The confrontation with Shelob is supposed to be in The Two Towers, but they moved it to Return of the King (great move, by the way).
Faramir is underplayed in the movie, but one of the most touching scenes is when Pippin sings for Denethor while Faramir is on a suicide mission. There's also a hint of some chemistry between him and Eowyn, but it's not explored at all. I hope the extended DVD gets further into that, if there's a "that" to get further into.
Anyway, are there any other major departures?
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GarthP2000
Raf,
Since I'm going to see the movie anyway, ... I heard that the Gollum bites Frodo's finger off when he fights to get the ring back. Does he in the movie?
Now is that a gross image or what?
:D-->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Oakspear
I haven't seen the movie yet Rafael, but in the book, Eowyn and Faramir are both recovering from their nazgul wounds in the House of His Healing Presence...er...Houses of Healing
:D-->
Eowyn is in love with Aragorn, Faramir falls for Eowyn, who eventually returns his love. They marry after Theoden is buried in Rohan.
That's not in the movie???!!!
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Raf
Garth,
That scene is in the movie. It's powerful as hell.
Oakspear,
Eowyn is in love with Aragorn. That's in the movie. Aragorn does not return her love. That's in the movie.
Faramir falls for Eowyn, recuperating in the Way Woods, marrying after Theoden's burial: none of that is in the movie. Hopefully some of it will be in the extended dvd.
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Zixar
The odds against the Men aren't nearly so great as appear on the screen. Minas Tirith was beleaguered, but when the Rohirrim arrive they even out the fight quite a bit.
Elrond doesn't visit Aragorn in Rohan to give him the sword Anduril. Aragorn gets Anduril before the Fellowship leaves Rivendell in book 1. Elrond's son Elrohir visits Aragorn in Rohan to remind him of the Paths of the Dead. Legolas does not kick nearly as much a$$ in the books as he does in the film, and Gimli is hardly comic relief.
Sam wants to go with Frodo at the Grey Havens, but is told he did not bear the Ring long enough to have to go. In the appendices, we find that after Rosie's death from old age, Sam finally gives the Red Book to his daughter Elanor and takes the ship to join the other Ringbearers.
Merry, at age 102, visits King Eomer for a while before Eomer's death, and Merry and Pippin both are interred next to King Aragorn when they all die, some 120 years after the end of the story. Upon the King's death, Legolas builds a ship and Gimli acompanies him down the River Anduin and out over the sea, the last of the Fellowship.
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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Raf
Cool stuff.
experee-enc-eeng tecknakal trouble. Questuns later.
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Raf
Ok, they seem to have fixed the technical glitch.
What I was going to ask was:
Gimli is the son of Gloin, right?
Is that the same Gloin that was in The Hobbit?
And Gimli's cousin, Balin, who died in the Mines of Moria, was he in The Hobbit also?
They say Peter Jackson finally caved and will film The Hobbit.
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Oakspear
Gloin and Balin both appear in The Hobbitt
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Raf
I'm almost certain they are the same characters, but I just want to make sure they're not different characters with the same name.
I think it's cool if Gimli's father was part of Bilbo's original adventure.
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Trefor Heywood
Yes indeed Gimli is the son of Gloin in the Hobbit as Balin (he of the Moria tomb) was also in that story.
If Jackson films it I wonder if he will use Ian Holm to replay Bilbo?
Trefor Heywood
"Cymru Am Byth!"
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Oakspear
I would say that most of the changes from the book to the movie were in the category of details. There were very few changes that were in any way major.
For instance the Paths of The Dead change that Zix mentions. Elladan and Elrohir (Elrond's sons) play such a small part in the book, and do not appear "on stage" until this scene, that introducing them (as well as Aragorn's fellow Dunedain rangers) would only confuse by adding to an already large cast of "main" characters.
Other changes were in the manner of compressing or alluding to things that are not fully developed. Like the above mentioned Faramir-Eowyn romance. The whole Houses of Healing chapter would have, IMHO, bogged the movie down at a critical point, the meaningful glances they give each other at the coronation tell the tale.
The change that I saw that was most significant was the decision to not include "The Scouring of the Shire", and the connected fate of Saruman.
For those who didn't read the book, the returning Hobbits, as well as Gandalph run into Saruman and Grima Wormtongue on the way to Rivendell. Treebeard got soft-hearted and couldn't bear to keep him caged up. By the time the hobbits return to The Shire, they find that a group of ruffians have taken over. Pippin and Merry organize a rebellion and take back their country. The leader is revealed to be Saruman.
Frodo spares Saruman's life, but Wormtongue knifes Saruman in the back after Saruman kicks him. Hobbit archers kill Wormtongue.
There have been arguments raging on LOTR web sites for over a year about this ommission. I would have liked to see the book adhered to in this case, but it did not detracy from the spirit of the book, and things still were tied up nicely.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Oakspear
The Rohirrim joining the battle shouting "Death, death, death" was awesome.
The look on the faces of the Orcs when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli jump off the pirate ship, then the LOOK on their faces when the dead army materializes.
Merry wounding the Nazgul and Eowyn killing him. (the Nazgul, not Merry!)Quite a few women in the audience cheered when she exclaims "I am no man"
The depiction of Denethor's insanity was scary.
The look on Frodo's face when he claims the ring just before putting it on at Mount Doom shows more than a little insanity in his eyes. Gollum's look just before he lands in the lava is priceless.
There were parts of the movie where I literally cried, others when I cheered. I was on the edge of my seat despite having read the book at least a dozen times.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Mister P-Mosh
One potential problem that I will have to rewatch to double check for is Frodo's finger. I'm sure you all remember when Gollum bit off the finger to get the ring, leaving a bloody stump and also that Frodo had it bandaged up in the scene where he was in bed. However, I'm not sure about the scene with Sam and Frodo sitting on the rock, and I'm pretty sure that later scenes show Frodo with a full finger again. I don't know for sure and will watch it again when it comes out on DVD, but I do think they messed up there.
Of course, that's nothing compared to what I read about the first one which apparently shows powerlines and either a plane or car (I forgot which.)
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Raf
I don't know about that, P-Mosh. I watched it again yesterday and didn't notice any finger inconsistencies. It's in bandages when he wakes up and Gandalf is there. It's also very clearly a stump when he's finishing up his book.
If you ever have a few months to kill, go to The Movie Mistakes Web Page. It should keep you busy for a little while. For example, a car could be seen in the distance in the scene in Fellowship where Frodo and Sam are leaving the Shire ("If I take one more step, it will be the farthest from home I've ever been"). They fixed it for the home video and DVD release.
A fave mistake of mine is a little one: In the Two Towers, just before it looks like Pippin's about to get tramples by a horse, take a close look at his hands. They're unbound. A few seconds later, he crawls over and cuts the ropes off his bound hands.
The scouring of the shire would have been a nice touch, but the telling of the tale was exhausting enough as it was. I put it in the same category as Tom Bombadil: You miss it if you know it belongs there, but for those of us who were unaware, it's not a big deal.
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Raf
This had me in stitches today...
The Two Towers Parody
Return of the King Parody.
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Zixar
Raf: So when are you , like, going to read the books, already???
:D--> (p.s. Start with The Hobbit. Tolkien takes a little getting used to.)
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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Raf
I skimmed The Hobbit, which I do intend to read in detail another time.
Right now I just finished the chapter "A Knife in the Dark."
It's amazing how "talky" these books are. I mean, The Fellowship of the Ring is a talky movie, so I figured the book would be even more so. I just didn't figure on Aragorn reciting an entire poem on Weathertop while everyone knows the Black Riders are on their way.
:)-->
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Zixar
FOTR is the talkiest if the three, fortunately. Why it takes them a couple hundred pages to get from The Shire to Rivendell is beyond me, but since Tolkien wrote them to entertain his son while he was away at war, I suppose it might have been intentional to stretch things out a bit.
The good thing about The Hobbit is that it's a self-contained story--plus, what fantasy epic would be complete without at least ONE dragon in it?
;)--> (And a badass dragon, at that. Smaug could wipe the floor with every other literary dragon.)
If you don't watch out, you'll (heavens forfend!) start playing Dungeons & Dragons... muhahahahaha!
Secret Signature of the Day==v
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Raf
Yeah, I guess I stopped reading once Bilbo got the ring, since that was why I was looking at it in the first place.
I read Flight to the Ford yesterday and was a few pages into Many Meetings, which is so much cooler than the movie. Frodo meets Gloin (which answered my earlier question about Gloin and Balin, although Gimli hasn't been introduced yet).
I liked flight to the ford better in the movie only because they made it so much more clear that the stabbing of Frodo was a dangerous thing. In the book it's like, "Oh my, I've been stabbed. This hurts somewhat. Hey, wait, I can't move my arm. Is that tea you're making? Can you rub it on my shoulder? Thanks. There, much better. Whew."
Only later do we learn the gravity of the stabbing.
In the movie, it's like:
FRODO: F-ING OWWWWWWW! Ack!
SAM: What's the matter Mr. Frodo?
FRODO: Gurgle.
STRIDER: Oh s--t, Oh s--t, Oh s--t.
MERRY: What's the matter?
STRIDER: He's turning into one of them. We need to get him to Rivendell, which is six days away, but we need to get him there like an hour ago. If only there was an unbelievably hot Elf around who could ride a horse faster than the wind.
ARWEN: Hello sailor.
FRODO: Ugh!
ARWEN: Oh s--t. Let's go!
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Raf
I just re-read these today.
Guys, you MUST read them. They're rioutously funny.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mollyringwraith/1826.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mollyringwraith/5635.html
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Hope R.
I FINALLY saw the movie last night (Christmas kinda got in the way). I immediately came home and skimmed thru ROTK because I didn't recall the dead guys helping win the battle in Minas Tirith. They didn't. They helped in other ways - but they didn't zip around the city like the film depicted.
I was very disappointed when I read that Peter Jackson didn't even think about filming "The Scouring of the Shire" because he never liked that chapter in the book (that was in Newsweek in late November)!
Saurman will be dealt with in the extended DVD version, but without the chapter that was mentioned above, it will obviously be something the screenwriters saw fit to weave into the plot.
They also don't mention that Merry & Pippin have grown considerably taller from drinking Treebeard's water!
Oh - they also left out the fact that the reason Dethanor goes nuts is because he also has a palintir that he's been peering into for a while and Sauron has made him go mad.
The palintir Pippin finds is the one that was thrown out of Isingard by Wormtongue in an attempt to hit Gandalf.
Funny - I hadn't read the information in the appendices in a long time until last night. I'd forgotten that Sam goes off after Rosie dies.
Lotsa things - but I still thought it was fabulous. And Andy Serkis deserves some kind of award for Gollum, as does Sean Astin, who was more of a hero than Frodo, IMO.
RAFE - you never read the books??? Bro - dig in!
Oh - someone told me that Jackson was going to make "The Hobbit" - anyone know if it's true?
Hope R. color>size>face>
P.S. Did any of you find the movie a bit gay? (not that there's anything wrong with that!)
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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