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If you are CHARLIE, then those are your ANGELS. ("Charlie's Angels.")

This was Smash Mouth (or The Monkees) with "I'm A Believer."

I was hoping for another quote, but this is Styx' song "Mr Roboto."

It's JUST a discussion. It's not a competition.

Some perspective on "the OTHER side of the story".

No one is being combative with you. You asked questions and answers were provided. You've accused people, at least implicitly, of crying and not moving on. I tried to help you understand that your dismissiveness is not merely a childish cop out, it's a form of gaslighting. Perhaps my showing you this caused you discomfort, causing you to falsely accuse me of trying to start a forbidden topic while blaming you for it. After admittIng the possibility of my own failure at communicating, I offered a different illustration. Now you 're gaslighting again accusing people of being combative. This is how you react when you are challenged and corrected? It's a discussion. You aren't the only one allowed to take a passionate position for or against an idea.

Some on this board have been consistently kind and welcoming. Others of you have been consistently combative. Gentlemen, I have no interest in this. Where's the prize? What would make a ....ing contest worthwhile? I've probably stepped on toes. Sorry about that. If I'm going to be combative with anyone there better be something worth winning. https://x.com/TopGResistance/status/1920262595455357177?t=r2Ene5aPv5pHM4VSHYR6hQ&s=19

Of course not. Just shedding light on darkness.

Gosh golly gee... is it OUR job to convince the JoyfulSoul guy to be less judgmental? I kinda doubt it.

When someone so wildly misses the point, it seems to me there are at least three reasons. 1. They are incapable of understanding. 2. They willfully ignore the point. 3. I failed to articulate. I always assume #3 first. You asked why people are here at Greasespot. Rocky said to shed light on darkness. Then you said, "I can kind of understand that for awhile but then I'd be moving on. Once I've talked something out I'm looking for fresh." I attempted to illustrate a parallel to a familiar, yet vague, concept to encourage you to examine your own dismissiveness of the value people derive from this board. Try this. You've already talked out your views on the trinity. Yet, I assume, you still talk about it, you still make your case against it. (I'm not a trinitarian, btw.) What if someone told you to quit crying about the trinity and move on? Can you not see you dismissed and minimized in the exact same way a reason why people are here at Greasespot?

I don't care how he spends he spends his time. Just saying, that wouldn't be for me. Now you're going to start that again and act like I started it again!? At this point I'm ready to listen to somebody else talk about what they want to talk about. 5 pages of this thread, here. I'm ready to follow the wind of the spirit where it blows.

Do you not see a parallel with a certain religiopolitical ideology to which you are so fervently opposed? You haven’t moved on from that, even though you’ve got it all worked out. What if someone told you to quit crying and move on? See? It’s kinda like that.

lol. I almost forgot how privately interpreted this was.

I can kind of understand that for awhile but then I'd be moving on. As a ministry I can better understand it, giving others the opportunity to talk over their issues. But, that would be ministry. Service. Once I've talked something out I'm looking for fresh. About that, I think I've learned there's only one thing in the world that never gets old and that's the Holy Spirit. That's true. Songs get old, the presence of God never gets old.

And as the sun set slowly in the west and the cows mosied toward the safety of the barn... EDIT: Oops. I forgot the part about the smiling driver, waving gleefully as he sped past and continued down the road.

It's too early for me to share the personal and painful details of my life. I can tell you that with the support of God , my family, a psychiatrist, and a psychologist, I've been able to move forward. Although I don't resent TWI, I wouldn't recommend anyone attend TWI unless it's ONLY to receive information about Romans 10:9 and then leave in peace. Where do I start? Lies about the ministry's origin, lies about the content they teach, plagiarism, abuse. Leaders believe they are chosen by God because of VPW's misuse of Romans 13, and those leaders believe that since they are called by God, they can do whatever they please. If you are with the ministry, they will be with you; if you walk away from the ministry, all those friends.. will stop talking to you. They use people, they don't love them. They "research" the WORD OF God only to the extent that it doesn't contradict VPW. (CULT-RED FLAG) They have abused thousands of people around the world, and now that Martindale and Rivenbark are gone... they go around telling people to "forgive" and move forward with the "Love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation." It's not an honest organization that publicly and openly acknowledges mistakes; they only do so privately (at some point the will do) TIME TO COME HOME uhh? They don't teach people not to harm; They don't teach people not to harm; they demand that victims forgive abusers, and they keep the abusers in power. If you want details, send me a PM. God Bless U, PD: Vern seems like a good man, with good intentions. But he doesn't have the strength to weed out TWI's sectarian practices. (I met him 3 times)

To shine LIGHT on the darkness we've seen. Why would that be a bad thing?

And, thank you, Joe. Somehow I imagined us all as seniors, I think it's fascinating to hear from someone recently with The Way. I'd love to hear your story, too. Just got my call from the "Limb Coordinator", if that's what we're still saying. Wonderful, fascinating conversation. He's 65 and he's been around his whole life...I mean, he's telling me about VPW's tangential real life relationship with the people in the recent movie, Jesus Revolution. Yep, both of us, doing a comparison of Lonnie Frisbee and VPW. Along those lines, Ted Haggard, ever heard of him? I had the opportunity to speak to him after church once. I'm pretty much full. Gotta process. Gotta 'hear' from God. Still hope to hit the Rock and maybe now a "limb" meeting. If you spill your story out here, Joe, I'll be listening.

Thank you, Nathan

Raf can answer for himself, obviously, but I read his post as just showing you around - what's available, how to get it, and what to do with it once you've got it. Different forums for different topics. Discuss whatever you want. Only politics is out of bounds. Avoid politics and you're good.

For those of you asking. The Way is no longer supporting "tithing", in their STS they talk about "GIVE" and in the last fellowship I participated I was encourage to give freely. So they are not longer asking for 15% even for graduates of the advanced class ( I was) The Way has changed in the recent years? For sure, ¿ real changes? Not at all. TWI is bringing back the "good old years", uploading VPW teachings on their Youtube Channel, offering basically the same content. And hiding some of their core teachings in order to look more appealing to a younger crowd. Good people in TWI? For sure, you can find good people everywhere. You'll receive a lot of love in the beginning (Love-bombing uhh) ; as long as you don't commit to the ministry, they won't ask much of you. When you become deeply involved with TWI, the hell and abuse begin. And even though LCM's abusive tactics are no longer as prevalent, the emotional and psychological manipulation persists. I left TWI a little over two years ago. If you have any question about current TWI, just ask. Have a good day!

See, Vineyard librarian. Now, that's the kind of thing I find interesting. I'd love to hear this story. That's not specifically about The Way, however. Out of bounds?

Modcat5, It makes me wonder how tightly the lines are drawn. I think this is the only currently active thread and and I haven't posted to any others. This is the third time the boundaries have been laid out for me (second by a mod). Are you saying the forum is not about people who have been involved with the Way? Just, the Way itself. I find it very useful learning about the spiritual life of the person I'm talking to. Everyone has had their experiences with the Way and this one came away and became a Catholic. Another came away and sometimes listens to LCM- just, imagine that!? Somebody has been deeply traumatized by his experiences. And, atheists. Of course I have shared a lot about my Journey, my faith and ministries I've been associated with. Are you saying Im pushing some kind of limit? As far as I know I'm the only one interested in reaching out to them and the truth is, how much a class costs isn't something I've even thought about. I'm not into rocking boats. I just don't know how strict you are about confining the subject matter. Comparing the lives of VPW and Lonnie Frisbee, for instance, to me that's very interesting. OTOH, you could say that's not about the Way. I just don't know because this freewheeling exchange has been therapeutic for me. I'm not really in need of anything, however. There's Charity, now. Comparing IHOPKC and The Way, is that out of bounds?

I was never personally involved with IHOPKC. I learned of Bickle when a couple of his books were part of a Vineyard church library I was overseeing. If you type "bickle" in the search box above, you will see my posts about them. If you want to follow up on any of them, you can do it through those threads.