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Waxit, I believe we all can have a productive conversation if we all really listen, ask questions, be respectful and find common ground. And generally speaking, folks like to have their ideas validated – nothing wrong with wanting that. I've found that really productive discussions involving theology, doctrine, theory and practice tend to go through a refining process – where everyone tries to get down to the nitty gritty of the issues – by focusing on the most important or fundamental aspects of the issues. There is often a give and take that goes on – concessions and compromises – and sometimes something significant is achieved. From my own experience on Grease Spot there’s been times: I’ve abandoned, modified, expanded, changed or simply validated my position on something; broadened my horizon; gained a deeper understanding of something by listening to someone else’s perspective on it. Per your request and as a gesture of good faith, I will briefly state where I’m coming from – although I think one’s belief system is very complex and usually doesn’t lend itself to being conveniently pigeonholed – as you’ll see in the qualifiers I tack on to my position on stuff – and maybe you’ll find some common ground in all this. I am somewhat of a Christian agnostic - I do follow the basic tenets of the Christian faith – but when it comes to God - I do believe in God but feel that there is so much more about the Creator that goes way beyond my understanding or any theology. I do regard the Bible as the Word of God. Even though it has obvious errors and contradictions, especially in some historical or scientific matters – However, I believe any problems are few and far between in matters of faith – the basic tenets of Christianity – such as the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ and all that accomplished…loving God…loving my neighbor as myself…sin, repentance, forgiveness, etc...and anyway "technically" speaking my faith is placed in a person (Jesus Christ ) rather than in a book. But if anything the Bible is certainly one of the means of developing my relationship with Jesus Christ. Also I wanted to be honest and upfront with you about your statement “an agnostic that doesnt regard the bible as the word of God when rightly divided with no contradictions in other parts of the bible”…”Rightly divided” is an interesting and unusual KJV phrase. I think it has been co-opted by various groups – becoming something of a catchphrase that goes well beyond the original idea that it was intended to convey. For some folks “rightly divided” seems to function as loaded language to persuade folks that their interpretation of the Bible or a particular passage is the correct and only valid explanation…Just wanted to let everyone know when I read “rightly divided” in a post, I automatically translate it to “in my opinion the correct interpretation of the passage is as follows…” . Hopefully some sound principles of interpretation were involved in the process…for more on principles of interpretation see Wikipedia Hermeneutics and Stanford Ency. of Philosophy: Hermeneutics and regarding KJV phrase "rightly dividing" see What did Paul mean by rightly dividing for an interesting read. Waxit, hopefully we all can look past what folks say regarding their own beliefs – not dismissing or pre-judging them. That will encourage folks to think outside their own theological box – and that will truly be a productive discussion. == == == Having said all that – I want to address your other post. Waxit, I agree that the basis, foundation…the reason behind obeying the law and the prophets should always be doing it out of love for God and neighbor. But I don’t see why you assume that means the command to keep the Sabbath is still in effect. You may be technically correct in claiming Jesus ".. never said, you can ignore His laws & commandments (Including the 7th day sabbath)"...But I don't think he needed to say that, because he is obviously explaining a "law" that supersedes all that...the law of love...The way Jesus explained the law in Matthew 22 makes me think of an attorney in the courtroom interpreting what is the intent of the law...This "law" of love is obviously a ruling factor in Romans 14 regarding how one should behave around others who may have different convictions than we do...the intent of the law has always been to engender love. Matter of fact there are several passages in the epistles that echo that simple summation in Matthew 22 of “love thy neighbor” and actually do not mention any specific laws that we are obliged to keep – see Rom. 13: 8, 9; Gal. 5:14; James 2:8…it seems to me "the law" has always been about love. Love is the common denominator of anything God has asked of believers. so if a verse like Galatians 5:14 says “For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” and “fulfilled” means satisfied, brought to completion or accomplished – so I was wondering why do you think Christians are duty-bound - morally or legally obliged to keep the Sabbath?