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"Sorry, Twinky. I just don't buy your perspective, that the PFAL class (and books) is merely man-given." Try not to be too shocked that nearly everybody else doesn't buy that pfal was 'the God-given PFAL class.' "If you look at my perspective, OF COURSE God is allowed to give revelation for a class that would bless many." I'd say we all agree that God is "ALLOWED" to do so, that He COULD do so. He can also make purple cows and flying buffaloes from which we would get buffalo wings. Hard to get converts when you don't go past "He COULD do this, therefore he DID do this, and you'd see that if you adopted my worldview for a few months." " I saw its benefits in the past, as well as currently." Twinky asked a legitimate question of you, and tossed you a "softball." You declined to answer, and are just being vague on that. Your choice, but it stifles discussion and weakens your case that you REFUSE to get specific at your leisure. " But we debated this for many years. You are not bringing up anything new." But he asked about your experience. That wasn't "debating." Other people recognize parts of a conversation. We can discuss things in a manner that they aren't continuous commercials for our pet cause. We can also have casual discussions ABOUT our pet causes. It's not too late for you to TRY to pick up those skills. "Sorry to ignore you Wordwolf. Too many details; too many repeats." "Too many repeats" is probably not the best complaint for you, of all people, to lead with. On the other hand, you didn't need to comment on what I said- I just recapped for those tuning in late. You could just stipulate to all that and move on, which is what I expected and you pretty much did. I did post that I was recapping for the others. "I hope your attention to detail helps in your ministering to people." It does, and generally in ways you wouldn't expect it to. I've also found it seems to work best when mixed with humility. "Why would you be more curious about my publishing success than in my little mirror explanation to cman here? " I thought you'd said all there was to say on your mirror explanation, and I didn't think there was anything to add that wasn't already said. So, I thought of that as an effectively-closed topic. On the other hand, your casual mention of both publishing AND being quoted in someone's reference work raised a few OBVIOUS questions. Since you normally refuse to give direct answers, I thought I'd try a direct question AGAIN and see if, just maybe, you'd answer directly anyway. You're also not the first person I've asked about a book they'd written, and you probably won't be the last. "Writing a book is one thing; publishing another. Self-publishing is easy and free nowadays. I'm more interested in the circulation of the ideas than paper printing and "official" fame. Most of what I write in recent years on free will first appears in discussion forums with others who are focused on this difficult topic." See, that's a persistent problem, and one that undermines your credibility. There's no attempt at CLEAR communication- there was an IMPLICATION, DELIBERATE "wiggle-room" was inserted, all to make people GUESS at what you meant, all so later you could deny it and accuse people of misunderstanding you after your DELIBERATE poor communication. Did you self-publish? Was it a print book, or an e-book if you did self-publish? The reference book- was it also self-published by an amateur author, or did a professional publishing house sign off on the thing? You INSINUATED that it was all self-publishing, that you made an e-book or something, and someone else did the same and quoted yours. There's no clear statement to that effect, either way. BTW, if you DID self-publish an e-book, there's nothing wrong with that. However, your casual mention of the book's publication sure made it look like you wanted people to think you were a formally-published writer- which is a much bigger accomplishment and, it seems, wasn't warranted.