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The footnote on page 91 of The Word’s Way is an ancillary piece of information that wierwille put there to further explain the sea reference in Revelation 21:1 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.” wierwille’s footnote on page 91 of The Word’s Way reads as follows: “no more sea,” is a Hebraism referring to “no more wavering, confusion, trouble or unrighteousness.” Granted, wierwille’s footnote does have the word “wavering” but I fail to see the connection to alcohol and drunks as you say nor do I see how it gives support to what you said about it being a ‘Hebrew idiom of the mind in the future as all minds will be fully renewed’ : Mike said: “I see two connections between Leviathan and alcohol. One is how a drunk looks as he tries to walk in a straight line. It looks like someone trying to walk in a boat that is rocking on the high seas, being rocked by a sea monster. It also feels like the high seas to a drunk who attempts to walk on dry land. The other connection occurs in the Book of Revelation where it says that in the future there will be no more sea. That is a Hebrew idiom for no more WAVERING of the mind in the future as all minds will be fully renewed. Add to this the passages about Peter looking at the waves as he walked on and becoming fearful. Drunks are notorious for having a tempest tossed mind, full of wavering.” I will say this about wierwille’s footnote – the ONLY word of his that MIGHT come close to what “no more sea” probably means is the word “confusion.” On page 2265 of NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible: Bringing to Life the Ancient World of Scripture the following comment is offered by Revelation 21:1 …’there was no longer any sea.’ Some sources spoke of the purification of creation; others, of its transformation; still others, of its destruction and rebirth. Because the sea disappears, Revelation at least evokes transformation, though scholars debate how literally Revelation intends its different images. Some scholars associate the sea with evil (or chaos, as much earlier in ancient Near Eastern thought), with death (20:13) or with the beast (13:1), but it appears positively in some other passages in Revelation (5:13; 15:2). Perhaps the sea disappears here because Isaiah’s new heavens and earth do not specifically mention it. More likely it is replaced with the joyful river of life from God’s throne (for the righteous; 22:1) and possibly the lake of (for the wicked; 21:8). End of excerpts ~ ~ ~ ~ Early Christian commentaries have had similar ideas of chaos and death as those noted in the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible…to give you a taste here’s Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament Volume XII: Revelation The inside jacket talks about the postcritical revival of the early commentary tradition known as glossa ordinaria – a text artfully elaborated with ancient and authoritative reflections and insights to supplement modern commentaries by framing them with notable interpretive voices that have long since sustained the church…on pages 354 and 355 of this volume it provides the following comments by Augustine a theologians & philosopher and Andrew of Caesarea: Revelation 21:1b no more sea The restless and stormy and stormy life of people will pass away. Augustine. It is hard to know whether [the sea] will be dried up by the terrible heat of those flames or will itself be transformed into something better. For though we read that there will be a new heaven and earth, I cannot recall having ever seen mentioned a new sea, save perhaps in the verse of the Apocalypse, “sea of glass similar to crystal” . Yet in that passage John was not talking about the end of the world; moreover, he did not claim to have seen a sea proper, but something like a sea. Still, as prophecy is prone to intermingle the literal and metaphorical and so veil its meaning, it may be that in our present text, “and the sea is no more,” John was speaking of the identical sea he spoke of earlier: “and the sea gave up the dead that were in it.” For then, this world of ours, made restless and stormy by the lives of men (and hence, figuratively, called the sea), will have passed away. City of God 20.16. There will be no more need of commerce. Andrew of Caesarea. Concerning the sea, it says that “the sea was no more.” For what use is there of a sea when people no longer need to sail it or to acquire by means of it the goods grown in regions lying far away? Moreover the “sea” is symbolic of the turbulence and unsettledness of life, and so there will be no need of it when there remains no trouble or fear among the saints. Commentary on the Apocalypse 21.1 End of excerpts ~ ~ ~ It is inconclusive if Mike actually thought he had a wierwille reference to support his ideas – or that he just imagined wierwille’s reference said more than it did – or that he was merely bluffing and hoped no one would look up the Word’s Way page 91 footnote. I’ve become somewhat of a softie – and now like to give folks a chance to save face. Perhaps Mike would like to revise his comments intermingling Leviathan and alcohol, drunken pedestrians, tempest tossed drunken minds and the supposed Hebrew idiom for no more WAVERING of the mind in the future as all minds will be fully renewed. For some reason the scene in Forrest Gump came to mind – where Lieutenant Dan shows up at the dock to say hi to Forrest coming in on his shrimp boat; Lt. Dan explains to Forrest “I’m here to try out my sea legs.” To which Forrest replies back “Well, you ain't got no legs, Lieutenant Dan.”… Revelation 21:1b Revised Movie Dialog Translation “and there were no more sea legs”. = = = = = You needn’t remind me of remembering stuff that wierwille taught! I still have all my PFAL books and his other work, as well as Lifelines, and a 12 year accumulation of Way Mags, Sunday Night Teaching Tapes, my corps journals (plural!), corps night teachings, my own handwritten notes from corps tapes – since I had easy access while in residence, not to mention for 2 years in residence we had to live, breathe and sleep PFAL…so don’t try to bluff me – I was a supreme wierwille-worshipper! And don’t forget – I’m not letting those “precious memories” of toxic-nonsense-doctrine go to waste – one of the big reasons I post at Grease Spot – is to help others escape the nonsense as I said on the thread The "Second Wave" of returning to PFAL has SUPPOSEDLY started in that post I said: “here we are at the umpteenth session of the ALLEGED 2nd wave of returning to PFAL has started…in case anyone is wondering about these long and detailed critiques of mine and why I am going full steam ahead – it’s because my target audience are the PFAL-fans mentioned in the very first post on this thread – which includes more than the fans that the thread-starter knows personally – it also includes current followers of TWI and also the offshoots…and really ANY PFAL grad who has a strong sense of disillusionment derived from the failure of PFAL to fulfill the goals/claims/promises/benefits that “The Teacher” (wierwille) stated AND the perception of inconsistencies between the actions of “The Teacher” (wierwille) and the ideals he supposedly represented… I am trying to be more dispassionate as well as making more of an effort to suppress my weak attempts at comedy and sarcasm – which is a toughie for a class-clown wannabe. Considering my own experience of leaving TWI and what led me to reevaluate their dogma - it was usually persuasive discussions using calm words, logic, and evidence – whether it was from fellow way corps who had already left before me, old friends I knew before I got into TWI, or other EXTERNAL sources like books on systematic theology, psychology, philosophy, critical thinking and websites like Grease Spot Café. This post was a long time coming – “inspired” by one of my favorite sessions of the PFAL class - battle of the senses (session 6, I think – funny how much I still remember). If I would give this post a parody title, I’d call it battle of the senseless…or maybe YOUR intuition and cognitive skills versus wierwille’s “revelations” …I also thought it could be called PFAL’s sedative to YOUR intuition and cognitive skills. “ end of my quote ~ ~ ~ ~ In case you haven’t figured out my strategy by now – here it is in a nutshell…I’m really not concerned with changing your mind or winning you over to my way of thinking. That’s not to say you’re hopeless – cuz I believe if someone is still alive there’s always hope…My intent is not even to win others over to my way of thinking…All I want is to inspire folks to do their best and clearest thinking…anyway - if we all thought alike then no one is really thinking. and here’s one more piece of unsolicited advice: maybe you should refrain from that sloppy regurgitation, imaginative elaboration and deceitful misquoting of wierwille-theology when you try to bolster his memory or promote some whacky idea - you wind up actually making wierwille sound worse than he already is…you’re not being a good PR agent for the cause. That’s all for now -