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All right - one serious comment. I will say that over the course of this thread, I have become a lot more aware of the potential and likelihood for fraud associated with this topic. I'm reminded of VPW's story of first SIT in TWLIL. He went to a convention, was up on stage with Oral Roberts and some others. They tried to help him SIT. He spoke a few words of some known languages and perpetuated a fraud. (After that was his experience with JE Stiles, where he had the life-changing experience - the one where an important part of the story is stating that "no woman was going to be around when he manifested, and that women can't be trusted" - some of his misogynistic comments.) In many ways maybe VP was subconsciously telling the real story. He saw the impact Oral was having, wanted some for himself, and perpetuated a fraud to have greater power and influence. We got swept up in it, and anyone having a genuine experience probably was the exception not the rule. And the Pharisee doctrine that engulfs what was taught around the topic is well able to easily engulf and taint the experience itself. And yes, VPW, despite your false doctrine and teachings, it is fairly easy to counterfeit that experience. On the more jovial side of the conversation, have you led any more people you've met on the street into SIT the contrived way? Which, BTW, does show you a whole lot about what's possible. Thx for that.