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First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of the absent Christ. Damnable heresy all the way here. It would be worded better if they just told the truth: The way ministry takes the place of the real Jesus Christ. That holds true across the board for people in the way international. The directors act as the head of the body. The way ministry is considered by the way ministry "the functioning body of Christ"...the way corps stand in the gap....the only gap I have ever known about was the one that was put between God and his people by the sin nature. The real Jesus Christ stands in that gap as the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus Christ died for our sins...not the way international. I could keep going....does anyone have any idea whatsoever where this awful doctrine originated? I have never heard it outside the way ministry. Was this VPW's brainchild? To me this is a very anti-Christ doctrine. Nowhere is Christ ever called absent and nowhere is he replaced by anything. He has all the preeminance. Period. Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone and no other foundation can no man lay. I

Seared conscience to lock in that great wierwille flavor

This downward, corkscrew-motion of twi's "ministry" was inevitable.....inescapable. Why? Because God is not mocked....and the truth, and fruit of one's life, eventually comes forth. For indeed, wierwille was a "wolf in sheep's clothing" who cloaked himself with a persona and position that violated the very essence of Christian norms and the "Office of a Bishop." He was every bit the man that the Scriptures describes of Simon in Acts 8:9-11. The people had been deceived, for a season, and thought of Simon(wierwille) as -- "this man is the great power of God." The fruit of twi's abusive, coercive actions have come home to roost. The way corps has been abandoning this "twi-servitude" since 1977......wave upon wave, realizing how they were NOT bound to give allegiance to a pseudo-Christian (cult) outfit that cherry-picks selective verses while skewering others. Nor, year after year, ignore the revisionist history of wierwille's past and proclamations of "greatness".....when his drunkenness, plagiarist, and contentious striving was divisive and demeaning to the body of believers. And, martindale only added an exclamation point to it all. For most of twi-followers.....wierwille was seen thru the window of time 1972-1982. Throughout that short span, vpw's stage demeanor, voice inflection and plagiarized teachings were spotlighted. Way Publications and The Way Magazine amplified his teachings and air-brushed him with a patriarchal image. Valets, body guards, and the "Safety Department" safeguarded his sexual predation and lock-boxed his secrets. Enablers of old were given fiefdoms and elevated stature to keep the wierwille/man-of-gawd mystique burning brightly. Wierwille's "works of the flesh" were manifested in lust, pride, strife, division, drunkenness, adultery, wrath and more. Yet, the inner circle of the "ministry" (cough, cough)....rode the gravy train into retirement as the money poured in. Ten years of exponential abundance in twi......stripped from the true ministries of Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner. Even Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, could NOT mask the deception and theft of B.G. Leonard's stolen class while endeavoring to explain in detail how wierwille broke from the denominational church system and rose to prominence. Had wierwille come clean with his past sins.....and then, been able to walk with the power of God....some redemptive qualifiers might be in order. BUT....wierwille could not and did not walk by the spirit of God, nor operate the nine manifestations that he took excruciating pains to define in his advanced classes. No wonder, his advanced classes introduced all kinds of tangents and diversions to keep us from learning what was standing before us In Plain Sight.....wierwille was a false teacher.

Ya think after this long teaching the secret should be out. The off shoots too who made tons of bucks.I would rather speak and give people the word than make a darn dime.God is our sufficiency

The greatest secret for Christianity was the revelation of a savior and lord to save mankind from sin. Not some shell game manipulating words like word of God will of God. That is just a hollow catch phrase. Bartholomew begat Josephus begat an idea for VP that so many begats should involve him because all the women of the kingdom belong to the king These clowns were begat by Pharisees.

Absolutely! Looks like even the very same diagrams!!! The only person I'd be able eto stomach listening to is the black guy. He sounds enthusiastic and as if he has actually "made the word his own" and doesn't parrot word for word exactly what has been said since PFAL was first recorded. Nothing tempts me to consider for a millisecond undergoing this class ever again. But remember. "The word of God is the will of God." Okay? Well, the word is all about ACTIONS. Love God, and show it by doing things. Being kind to people. Being giving, being kind and compassionate. Forgiving one another. Looking out for the needs of others, and selflessly tending those needs. Getting out there and mixing with all sorts of people - good, bad, low in status or high in status. Absolutely none of "the will of God" is about sitting in a fancy ivory tower, or even a fancy auditorium, and listening and scribbling notes to oneself. Even less about isolating oneself to only hang out with others just like you.

Ah yes, the old switcheroo game! Switcheroo: an unexpected change, especially one in which one thing or person is quickly or secretly exchanged for another from: Cambridge Dictionary: switcheroo Also see Wikipedia - bait and switch

You know I think these questions illustrate the problem with the doctrine very clearly. Do you see the confusion here by the juxtaposition of the Bible, a sanctioned interpretation of the Bible, and spiritual direction in life? With Way logic all you need to do is line up your opinions with their sanctioned interpretation of the Bible (compliance to past Way teachings) and you have a renewed mind. Brainwashing language masked as spiritual maturity.

### There are reasons why TWI was not as formidable in 2017......as they thought they were. 1. Years of dissenting voices had been percolating below the surface. By August 2016, they sent the Board of Directors a letter of concerns and grievances. This dissenting group viewed this as an Acts 15 attempt to confront "the church elders" and resolve this growing divide. According to reports, the directors would not meet with them as a group......but offered to meet separately with couples, attempting to divide and conquer the group. 2. Thus, this dissenting group of corps marshaled greater numbers to their side. The chasm had widened. These corps want Rosalie to resign.....ousted from her position of power over them. So, even though Jean-Yves is "installed" as president.....Rosalie RETAINS her position of power as vice-president. The corps instantly recognize this as a ruse. Jean-Yves is nothing but a figurehead. Rosalie holds the power. By March 2017........letter to directors signed by 60 corps (and implying dozens more agree). 3. In this confrontation, the directors are dealing with major players. Four couples have been corps coordinators......overseeing campuses and several hundreds of corps thru the years. Plus, they'd gone on to oversee regions, limbs and branches. Other major players had been hq-staffers for decades......in security, investment, legal, international outreach, etc. No longer were these corps 30 year olds.........they are NOW 60-70 year olds and pi$$ed at the system of corruption. 4. Add in the factor of social media. How much communication and organization was done via phone/texting one another? How many years have these corps been visiting GreaseSpot Cafe's site and read the thousands and thousands of threads here? Open forums, open discussion....allows light to expose the deceptive tactics and leadership that has lulled twi-followers into blind allegiance. Yet, they are nothing more than BLIND GUIDES. [Matthew 23] 5. Rosalie kept pushing and pushing these corps to do more. Yet, many of them simply wanted the respect and public thanks from the directors for their decades of service .....and then, retire graciously. The cult could not and would not allow this. 6. There's a saying....."Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Well, what about these corps who had been scorned? Did the directors think that they could dispose and trash their reputations like twi did to others decades ago? Hello??? The internet is here. Social media is here. NO LONGER CAN THE DIRECTORS SILENCE THEIR CRITICS. 7. In business, it is said that one displeased customer will go on and tell his experience to 12 others. That's 12 other people who have heard and are now influenced by a rotten business or an overpriced service. Bad publicity travels around the city faster than you can imagine. What did the directors think would happen? Are they SO CLUELESS that they think bad business goes unspoken? 8. Imagine......40+ years in twi-service and now THIS? You don't think that is going to cut deeply? 9. So, yeah......the directors have sowed the wind and shall reap the whirlwind. No surprise. These corps are going to keep telling others......friends, co-workers, kids, grand kids, etc. How many will stop tithing/absing to twi altogether? How many will start going to another splinter group? How many will finally recognize this whole ruse as a cult experience? 10. Will twi every learn? This is no longer the 1970s when wierwille was able to rule with dominant power over others. Today, the internet and social media has changed everything. This latest toll has INDEED been a significant blow to twi. ### Until the board of directors address their sins and REPENT..... twi will continue its downward spiral. There is no way that a regurgitated class is going to be a dominant force in twi's rebuilding. If that's the only sleight-of-hand trick that they've got.....then twi will fade into obscurity. .

Thanks, Chockfull. A mind filled with God's Word? Does that mean a mind filled with the Bible? Or does it mean filled with God's will? So much bull$hit it almost makes sense. A renewed mind is not one conformed to any doctrine, any book, any teacher - this is an enslaved mind. A renewed mind is one that is free and clear. Like a child's mind. Free to be in awe of the wonder of that which cannot be named.

YW!! Unfortunately, they haven't.

I was raised a RC and did everything to be the best young man possible. Went to mass twice a day, being the alter boy at 6:30am low mass, and singing in the choir at the 8:15am high mass. After a number of years realizing all the masses, studying everyday after school, did nothing to make me closer to God. On the contrary, feeling nothing towards God was quite disheartening and led to hating the whole mess, and after graduation, the only time attending mass was at weddings and funerals. However, I did feel God was still important, and when witnessed to at a cafe by a TWI WOW, jumped at the idea to once again do something God wanted me too. I ate PFAL up like a hungary kid. My bible had all the believing and faith markings, and anthing else heard in a tape or from a leader. However, after my branch leader and his wife died in a horrific car accident, and no leader had any intentions of raising them from the dead, but condemned them for missing the revelation God was attempting to give them to avoid the accident, my faith went South. I stuck around for years after that, only because of the fear of becoming a greasespot my midnight overtook me. When I filed for a divorce I was M&A so was forced to leave. Thank goodness I was finally out and able to recover sanity. Being out and able to think for myself, started realizing the only actions I saw about God performing miracles, was in a book written thousands of years ago. Why no parting of water in a lake when people were overtaken in a storm? Why no water being turned into wine, or the hungry getting their meager food multiplied to them? At this point, questioning the bible and God really made sense. I can’t put a label on the kind of unbeliever I am, but have determined God, Santa Clause, and the Easter Bunny are in the same class. I believe there is some kind of supernatural powers, but don’t believe anyone of them will ever be my savior. Like Sam Harris said, being an atheist allows me to expand my knowledge of life. I cannot explain it all for sure, but can study things I do not understand.

If Christ is not absent, then why is there a "return"? Or "coming of the Lord". It must be talking about something other than what we were taught.

Right. I got that from the beginning. The food just brought me to the thought that labels are a product of our conditioning. Labels are insufficient and usually problematic, divisive and destructive for the labeler and the labeled. Whether we realize it or not, labels are constructed out of laziness, immaturity and a lack of clear thinking, intellectually and spiritually. Can we see this about ourselves? One can not see what actually, truly is as long as one is artificially labeling. And one can never come upon that which is eternal, that which has no name, if one is always seeking to label according to one's conditioning, programming, indoctrination. This was true in Bronze Age Palestine and it's true today.

Pygmy Pharisees take the place of the risen Christ?

The TWI Death Spiral Was Inevitable This downward, corkscrew-motion of twi's "ministry" was inevitable.....inescapable. Why? Because God is not mocked.....and the truth, and fruit of one's life, eventually comes forth. For indeed, wierwille was a "wolf in sheep's clothing" who cloaked himself with a persona and position that violated the very essence of Christian norms and the "Office of a Bishop." He was every bit the man that the Scriptures describes of Simon in Acts 8:9-11. The people had been deceived, for a season, and thought of Simon(wierwille) as -- "this man is the great power of God." The fruit of twi's abusive, coercive actions have come home to roost. The way corps has been abandoning this "twi-servitude" since 1977......wave upon wave, realizing how they were NOT bound to give allegiance to a pseudo-Christian (cult) outfit that cherry-picks selective verses while skewering others. Nor, year after year, ignore the revisionist history of wierwille's past and proclamations of "greatness".....when his drunkenness, plagiarist, and contentious striving was divisive and demeaning to the body of believers. And, martindale only added an exclamation point to it all. Although this downward death spiral, this trajectory, has been happening for nearly four decades, it wasn't until the internet presence of Waydale (Paul Allen's website -- starting up in April 1999) that exposed the deception, manipulation, and exploitation elements at twi's highest levels for all to see. · Waydale gave a voice for victims to speak out. · Authoritarian rule was the intimidating heavy hand that smacked relentlessly. · Malignant narcissism was at the core of victor wierwille's drive for power. · Hidden in "leadership-language" -- the corps were to be brown-shirt followers. · Subjugation....to subdue the youth into a subservient body of worker-bees for twi. · Behind the doors of the corps indoctrination program were sexual predators. · Trustees, wives, corps coordinators, and others were enablers of these secrets. · Hiding behind Scriptures....was the subtle power of spiritual abuse in twi. This last exodus of corps and others, the Revival and Restore Group (2016/2017) were the last of any "stronghold" that twi had on the infamous CORPSE PROGRAM.....LOL. So, how does the board of directors respond to this??? More entrenched cover-their-a$$es. And, put Donna Lombardi Martindale in the SEAT OF POWER AND CONTROL as CEO.....Chief Effing Officer, er.....Executive Officer. hahahaha Divorced and damaged by her husband from two out-of-court settlements regarding sexual abuse and predatory claims, Rosalie was able to slow-walk and incrementally move Donna up the ladder during a 20-year shell game. I swear, this is SO OBVIOUS......and these people claim to be deeply-vested into research, r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. OMG So, the activity on the field becomes dismal and the abundant sharing starts to dry up. They push and push for the "remaining remnant" of corps (55-70 year olds) to hit the streets and WITNESS, WITNESS, WITNESS. Yeah, like that's gonna work. LOL. Notice how the board of directionless idiots never look in the mirror to see what is causing the problems!?!?! The authoritarians love this adulation and access to power over others. How do they attempt to fix these problems? Obfuscation. They direct their resources to muddy the waters and obscure THE EXODUS OF CORPS......to bring in young neophytes (new kind of life/energy) to teach/regurgitate wierwille's plagiarist class from Leonard, Power for Abundant Living Today. Ugh. For all their boasting of power.....wierwille and his yes-men walked in craftiness and handled the word of God deceitfully [II Corinthians 4:2]. What a clown show. With today's internet......hopefully, most people will be able to sniff out this deception and exit stage left. In the end, there is very little room at the top of the pyramid. · Craig Martindale gets a $65,000 yearly pension. · Does Rosalie Fox Rivenbark Shumate get a $65,000 yearly pension? · How about Howard Allen? And Wanda? $130,000 total each year? · And, Donna is in line for this $65,000 yearly pension as well. · How many OTHERS??? · Do the field corps get access to any of these pensions??? · Or.....is THAT why the field corps are finally awakened to the con? Wait till the young bucks figure out the scam. Wait till they figure out that they are being fleeced of time, money and labor that goes into the pockets of the authoritarian cult leaders. Then, they too will be bolting towards the exit doors. Twi has always been a series of revolving doors and preying on the youth. When the way corps youth could NO LONGER BE EXPLOITED for rock of ages labor......the Rock of Ages STOPPED. The Twi-Pharisees loved the annual pilgrimage to fill their coffers. Me? I got tired of the herd-fests and hypocrisy. .

Yes and when you tie the thread back together to his correspondence doctorate degree you see that homiletics was his thesis paper and major presentation for the degree. Spoken words and the effect of them, trying to maximize them. That really sums up VPs efforts. So all of the cons and conspiracies and secret knowledge is what he focused his efforts on. Not the study of scripture. It is very evident by the fruit produced.

The greatest secret for Christianity was the revelation of a savior and lord to save mankind from sin. Not some shell game manipulating words like word of God will of God. That is just a hollow catch phrase. Bartholomew begat Josephus begat an idea for VP that so many begats should involve him because all the women of the kingdom belong to the king These clowns were begat by Pharisees. This is called a flawed major premise. If the greatest secret is the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God, yet it is cryptic, what do you need? Ta-daaaaaa the Ronco 9000 VPW self interpreting Bible! And if that doesn’t work then just ask VP and he will tell you what it means via a literal translation according to usage. Whoa that’s a mouthful lol

Same here. I thought about it for a nanosecond...I did read that it was a personal injury/tort matter. Back to Pete...

Kenyon is now apartments for seniors (it was totally gutted and remodeled). ESU just is the holder of the transcripts from the original College of Emporia. The chapel was redeveloped by the same group after a church abandoned it and it suffered massive water damage and vandalism. Most the rest of the campus is owned by a variety of businesses. http://www.emporiagazette.com/latest_news_and_features/article_a89eb138-35db-5576-90a5-3db16315f057.html

I agree, T-Bone. I believe I was "in" later than you (78-97), every time I can wrap my head around another piece of this, it is a blessing to me. I'd like to think that I'd gotten all the old twi cobwebs out, when you shine your finely tuned light on it, lo and behold, another one pops up! Thanks, because when I see it, I can begin to eliminate it.