Leaderboard

Why do we need PFAL? In the AUTHORIZED book on TWI, titled “The Way Living in Love” (by Elena S. Whiteside, co 1972, American Christian Press, Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 72-89132), on page 178 Whiteside quotes wierwille as he talked about his long search for definitive answers…wierwille stated “I was praying. And I told Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on. And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others. Well, I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe that God would talk to me.” Expanding on what I said in my previous post: “Think about the early days of the 1st century church. They didn’t have little New Testaments to pass out for witnessing or to follow along with while in church. They didn’t have a complicated theological system and didn’t need to teach converts the keys to the interpretation of The Word - they EXPERIENCED and SHARED about the Living Word - Jesus Christ. Mark 16:20 says they simply went forth and preached everywhere, the Lord WORKING WITH them.” I add the following... Contrary to wierwille’s IMAGINATION of how HE THOUGHT “The Word” was made known in the first century – there is scriptural evidence to indicate Jesus as well as famous preachers like Paul had to rely on whatever scrolls were available in local synagogues… Acts 17:1-4 ESV mentions a typical means used by Paul: ‘Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.” The only “Bible” in Jesus’ and Paul’s day were copies of scrolls of what we’ve come to know as the Old Testament see Bible Hub - The Bible in the Days of Jesus Christ - and it’s not like every synagogue or other repository for religious / sacred writings had the ENTIRE Old Testament. An interesting side study is the formation of the Old Testament…”It was during the reign of Hezekiah of Judah in the 8th century B.C. that historians believe what would become the Old Testament began to take form, the result of royal scribes recording royal history and heroic legends. During the reign of Josiah in the 6th century B.C., the books of Deuteronomy and Judges were compiled and added. The final form of the Hebrew Bible developed over the next 200 years when Judah was swallowed up by the expanding Persian Empire.” ( from History website - how the Bible was formed ). According to one answer offered on the internet: “…Your average synagogue in Jesus’ day would likely have no scrolls at all, and not even a building. Please remember that Jesus lived during the Second Temple Era. Rabbinical Judaism centered around synagogues did not develop until after the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple some four decades after Jesus’ death. During Jesus’ lifetime, the typical synagogue was just a group of villagers who met to decide local matters according to what they knew of the law, much of which would have been transmitted orally in the rural area of Galilee where Jesus lived, where there weren’t even any Roman roads. In the larger towns/cities the synagogue would have met indoors, and would likely have had scrolls containing the Law. But the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh (which Christians call the “Old Testament”) containing the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings had not yet been established as a canon. Various groups used various collections of scrolls, not all of which agreed with the official scrolls held at the Temple in Jerusalem. And at the time of Jesus, when the legitimate Zadokite priests had been replaced by Rome with Idumean priests, who had no scriptural authority to hold their positions in the first place, many groups considered the current Temple leadership to be illegitimate. The followers of Jesus, for example, were into the Enoch traditions, which were relatively recent and generally not considered authoritative. In short, a synagogue at the time of Jesus was nothing at all like a modern synagogue. It was not involved in worship, which was centralized in Jerusalem officially but also still took place in various rural “high places” where there were altars and in homes. Rather, the synagogue was more like a local court which decided what to do about all the minutiae contained in the Law, such as divorces, how to compensate someone whose livestock had been allegedly harmed by someone else, what punishment to mete out to a thief, and so forth. Whether or not an actual Torah scroll was available depended on how large and wealthy the place was.” From Quora - During Jesus' time, would the average synagogue have had all the Old Testament scrolls? Even a quick search on the internet of WHEN The Bible was written will give you a wide variety of answers – NONE of which will support wierwille’s FANTASY that God would teach him the Word as it had not been known SINCE the FIRST CENTURY…wierwille’s ABSURD, RIDICULOUSLY FANTASTIC CLAIM makes God look like an idiot who never paid attention at a college or seminary (whether accredited or not ) when curriculum got into the history on how we got the book known as The Bible. Wikipedia – Dating the Bible Wikipedia – The New Testament Bible Gateway Blog - When Was Each Book of the Bible Written? Grace To You.org - When were the Bible books written? Biblical Archaeology.org – When was the Bible written? United Church of God.org - When were the books of the Bible written? CARM.org - When was the Bible written and who wrote it? By Matt Slick The International Bible Society - When was the Bible written? Why did I take the PFAL class? Good question… There were a lot of reasons...but I’ll mention the one that best relates to this and my previous post. I was looking for some definitive answers. The claims of benefits on the back of the green PFAL sign-up card seemed to me to be the ticket to definitive answers. Little did I know it was wierwille’s idea of definitive answers – which is PFAL - an insidious fourfold mix of 1. his signature intuition... 2. dogmatic fundamentalism... 3. pontificating demonology / spiritualism i.e., the “mechanics” of EXACTLY HOW stuff works in the spiritual realm... and 4. Gnosticism – the secret knowledge - “the keys” to the interpretation of “The Word” and experiencing the same knowledge and power of the first century church in our day and time and hour.” oh well, live and learn...I was young and naive...It all sounded good to me at the time... A really good con man will sell you the shirt off your own back...I think I’ve learned more about the Bible and experienced more of what life and freedom should be about since I left TWI. Interesting lines in the song Tin Man by America: “Sometimes late when things are real And people share the gift of gab between themselves Some are quick to take the bait And catch the perfect prize that waits among the shells But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have” = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Why do we need PFAL? I don't...we don't That’s all for now, folks ! (<that is my first wave) That’s all for now, folks ! (< and that is my second wave) (but if you you're reckoning from my previous post - I guess these are the second and third waves...I dunno I'm confused now... .... ok that's it for now... yikes - a fourth wave ?!?! ...or is it? ...oh W.O.W. the fifth wave... alright - bonus question for extra points: who was the fifth Beatle? )

My memory is LCM's explanation. The Adversary cannot create. He cannot make a spirit for the individual as God does with holy spirit (lower case). So he puts a "wedge" into a person's "door" - which is what seed is. The singing ladies had a song about keeping the door shut tight. "Out of fellowship" referred to obedience to God - which could mean many, many things. Not just going to fellowship. LCM was raging against AA, at the start of this thread. Alcoholism is a devil spirit in his world.

And....it was worse than THAT. Many of us corps were assigned every 3 or 4 years to move to another state. From our meager bank accounts, we paid for the U-hauls, the upfront deposits, moving expenses and any incurred storage fees. Upon arrival, we found grads who were hurt and withdrawn as a result of bullying by the departing corps "leader." So, we rolled up our sleeves and toiled to regain their trust, respect and commitment to standards of moral and spiritual integrity. These gains were achieved by perseverance. Acquiring suitable secular employment was no easy task in a new state. Oftentimes, we didn't have references or recommendations to ease the transition. Needing to "hit the ground running," we had little time to find good secular employment so we'd settle for less....with the prospect of more. Is there any wonder why many corps moved in the circles of self-employment.....painting, landscaping, roofing, window cleaning, commissioned salesperson, etc..... when wierwille demanded ALL CORPS attend Corps Week and ROA each year? These directives exponentially burdened the corps. With each passing year, the central mandates and burdens from hq mounted. Add babies, toddlers and bills to pay....Oh, My! It was not just the secular job, but all the responsibilities that we were expected to juggle in the circus act. Witnessing. Teaching. Running Classes. Paperwork. How could the trunk office staff be SO OBTUSE to this groundswell of abuse leveled at the field corps? No Region, Trunk or Corps Coordinator had the gonads to tell wierwille (or martindale) that field corps could not keep pace with his narcissistic demands. Yeah....those jackasses that strut the halls of the OSC Building are the administrative pencil-pushers and looters of the productive. While many of us went into worn-torn states, toiled 70-80 hour weeks and saw God's grace and power in action......the directors, with their greedy-beady eyes, stashed more cash into twi-coffers. Robbing the areas of their strength and ability to grow and prosper....rather than keeping 85% in the state to use for operating expenses, room, building, etc. [agreement that Jimmy Doop outlined with wierwille]. This centralized funneling of abundant sharing to headquarters has been plundering states and areas since its devious inception. If you ever want to grasp the magnitude of how destructive these cult mandates were to the corps, just look at the massive exodus of field branch, area and limb coordinators. THOSE are the men and women who toiled in the trenches to help others until they could no longer withstand the financial burdens, the plundering from hq in God's name, the bullying and spiritual abuse. Not the staffers at hq. Not the advanced class grads ensconced in good-paying secular employment. The field corps. That's why ruthless directors at HQ are clamoring to have these seasoned field leaders return .

There's my second wave of PFAL. Goodbye PFAL. Goodbye imitation replacement PFAL. Goodbye imitation replacement cult leaders. That is the only wave a rational person is going to make

It was worse than that. We worked secular jobs that we couldn't focus on to earn money to pay for rent for a large enough home to hold church meetings in. Then on top of that we sent in tithes and offerings from those earnings. All so we could have the privilege to work a fulltime non paid job doing all the leg work so jackasses in high towers can act important and make policy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why 95% of their leadership training graduates have fled for more rational endeavors.

I miss Steve's thoughtful posts, but as is common here, we can still debate the issue even though the original poster is long gone. And what you say, T-Bone, is worthwhile and very interesting. Just don't expect Steve to respond!

Sky it’s funny I was thinking about this and our training. We were trained product salesmen, no different than traveling around hucking vacuum cleaners or encyclopedias. The parts of our training that helped instill any kind of discipline in me I am thankful for. Of course the overall arching idea of being groomed as a pawn for a selfish hedonists pleasures is the part that is the most difficult to acknowledge for many, some would prefer a seared conscience and false narrative. That part makes me sick. I can actually look at most genuine acts I had during that period as a minister to be outside that framework and pattern rather than perpetuating it.

https://www.verywellmind.com/news-science-shows-smiling-really-does-make-us-feel-better-5075811 I am guessing someone who puts on the TWIG face too long forgets it's a MASK. It's an act. That little mental engineering must have consequences.

Gnosticism is a hunt for secret knowledge to defend yourself against some unseen enemy, yes? Assuming something or someone is out to get you is a form of narcissism.

A large percentage of Biblical scholars are of the opinion that I Timothy, II Timothy and Titus were authored by someone other than Paul. Paul is thought to have died in about 65 CE. These books appear to have been written about 35 years later.

Twi is not, nor ever was.....true Christianity. Wierwille set up a pyramid system to exploit the goodwill and self-sacrifice of youthful energy, ambition and labor. Through manipulation, intimidation and guilt..... twi elevated its loyalists as they climbed-the-ladder-to-spiritual-maturity: Becoming Corps Grads. In public teachings and presentations, wierwille hailed "his corps kids" having committed their lives to this twi-servitude..... er, lifetime of Christian service. Yet, in reality...... the corps were little more than exploited slaves.... stringing the chairs before meetings, smiling and ushering and collecting the abundant sharing, re-teaching pfal material in twigs, faithful to work at every rock of ages. Who at the top wouldn't want a system like this to continue indefinitely? We were the victims of our moral consent. We were victims of guilt. We obeyed and self-sacrificed against our better judgment. Year after year, with this pilgrimage to every rock of ages.... we were propping up wierwille's deceptive scam. Every rock of ages, every big meeting.... became a herd-fest! Moving masses of people from one teaching to the next was the "central-bureaucratic-plan." WTF Really? The boredom was monotony..... moving towards insanity, except that I don't think they wanted a DIFFERENT RESULT. Why would they? Doing the same thing over and over again was reaping adulation and money to twi's coffers $$$$$$$. Wierwille couldn't DO any more, because he DIDN'T HAVE any more to give. He was a man of homiletics and theatrical presentation.... not a man of godly action and production. His mind was limited to habit: serial plagiarism and standing before congregations. Throughout all those years on corps and staff, I never once saw wierwille do something that I'd categorize as receiving/operating word of knowledge, word of wisdom or discerning of spirits. On the contrary, I saw him deflect, stammer and fume when certain situations would arise. Cults are the bottom-feeders of religion......these "leaders" are deceivers, seducers, looters, parasites, grifters and weasel-opportunists. Teachings and methods are manipulated to present a dichotomy....."us verses them," black versus white, right versus wrong. When you strip away the "colorful" teachings....you see they were pinpointed to induce a set of fears. To me, there is no doubt that the directors would like seasoned way corps TO COME BACK and board the train of twi-servitude..... because it enriches them, THE LOOTERS WHO PROFIT FROM THE SELF-SACRIFICE OF GOOD PEOPLE, GOOD LEADERS. Corps and Advanced Class Grads who gave decades of ABS and labor to twi Trustees/Directors try to act "spiritual".....but are deadbeats and scumbags Wierwille was propped up for decades by serial plagiarism and enablers Some smart and savvy leaders saw thru vp's shtick early on..... and walked away Others gave years in twi-service..... to finally discover its deception and corruption Once unshackled from a cult... a bountiful harvest of life and love is restored That's why, to me....... NEVER allow yourself to be reattached to a splinter group!!! Those guys have been groomed for decades by wierwille/twi..... and STILL heap adulation onto wierwille and adapt all of his methods into their splinter groups. Two-fold the evil [Matt 23:15]. .

Ah, WW, what has Pillai got to do with the 12 Steps? Especially in the Christian context. Reminder. Here is Step 1. I think in our recovery from TWI, all of us had to start from this place. Our separation from God - either before we ever heard of TWI, or quite possibly because of TWI. I assure you - my life had become so unmanageable that I was near suicidal when they kicked me out. Except that I had so little energy and motivation that I couldn't even do that. Profound depression, PTSD, who knows. Thank God he rescued me and all is very, very well now. Pity I couldn't have listened to him earlier and got out of the misery of the post-TWI state years before.

You guys are waaaay off topic.

That's why I said "As per" and "supposedly".

Hello. If you want to socialize, we have game threads still going in the Games forum, and you are still welcome to join. "From 2002-2008 I was an advocate here that we return to PFAL to see how much we missed the first time(s), and to see how much we forgot or drifted from. I am convinced that 99% of all the woes reported here are due to us all NOT GETTING IT RIGHT the first times." You also outright contradicted the Orange Book in a few major issues- like vpw claiming we could get to the originals and how we could do that, and you saying we could NOT, and vpw saying something like 90% of Scripture means just what it says, and you saying the meanings are hidden, and vpw saying the class (book, once edited) was a class of KEYS and was to UNDERSTAND Genesis to Revelation but not to replace them, and you said it DID replace Genesis to Revelation. You said a lot of things, and usually switched to vague, uninformative wordings in order to obscure either a lack of substance or outright contradicting pfal while explaining pfal. Most of us here were around to see all of that, but a few new people may have missed it. For those people, I'd like to add that I in no way exaggerated what he said nor misrepresented it. Most people who have passed through these metaphorical doors are convinced that the problems were due to vpw violating the Bible and fair moral and legal codes while claiming he was our spiritual leader, and teaching his disciples to be two-fold the child of hell that he was- although, frankly, few matched in in that respect. Most actually cared about people, and only a tiny handful were that sociopathic or that fanatical to match him. You reluctantly agreed he wasn't perfect, but credited that to him being "OVERgifted" probably due to him being "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn" and "where he walked, the earth shook." (Seriously, those were his words, not mine.) You said the keys to getting it right were the hidden keys to pfal you knew and none of us did, and that the failure to get it right wasn't due primarily to pfal being a flawed product. "In those years I was only able to get a very small few of the GreaseSpotters to view things this way. The few of us came back to PFAL, this first wave of us, found it to be better than when we originally enjoyed it. " There were fewer people in your new group than in the "Heavens Gate" comet watchers, or so many other groups convinced they were there primarily due to some secret they know. The US is loaded with people who think they know "the secret" to what's really going on. Thousands of people believe that. The great obscurity of your product, and the requirement that one have fond, nostalgic twi memories seriously limits the target audience of the public. " I predicted back here at GreaseSpot then that I was only dealing with the "First Wave" of those returning to PFAL. " Nostalgia arrives in waves with decades. That's true regardless of content. And calling a handful of people a "first wave" shows a disregard for the term "wave." [To be followed with claims he did not, then later claims he was metaphorical in some way and that I failed to understand him, then later claims it was deliberate so someone could "spring his trap." Some of these posts follow VERY predictable patterns- like Mike returning after being refuted completely and claiming that his last visit showed him coming up with answers to everything and coming off unscathed.] "About 2 or 3 years ago I started seeing lots of Facebook Groups being started by lots of pro-PFAL people, and many comments by other pro-PFAL people. " Defining "pro-pfal" can change who is meant by a lot. By some definitions, that would include ME. Also, "many" is a remarkably vague term. "The number of Facebook Groups" is a lot like when twi defined a 5-person graduating class ENTIRELY by which percentage was going on to do what- 20% to do this, 20% to do that, which was 1 person each time. Facebook groups can be of a single person and a tiny, occasional audience. They also OVERLAP a lot- so 10 Facebook groups on this probably include 80% overlap- or more- of their audiences. "Every now and then a nay-sayer chimes in, but it's obvious how ineffective they are." Isn't it amazing how ineffective a naysayer can be, when they show up at a venue with a purpose to which they are diametrically opposed? ""After 35+ years now, lots of people are done comparing the flurry of clone classes that cropped up after 1986, and have found they fall way short of the original." That's not what they themselves are saying- that's your opinion of what they are doing. Their own answers would be quite different, and NOT rely on vpw, pfal, or anything involving a farm outside New Knoxville, in most cases. BTW, out of the supposed 100,000 people who took pfal, there are perhaps a few HUNDRED, at most, who are doing the splinter thing, with another few hundred if you include twi and SOWERS and so on, the groups with the authoritarian leaders and so on. In nearly every case, the audiences are all aging out- and in the other, the soil doesn't have depth. "

Am I the only one who thinks Bullinger's Figures of Speech sound a WHOLE LOT like Harry Potter spells? Condescensio! Hypocatastasis! Asyndeton! Polysyndeton! Expecto-Runaroundem!