lindyhopper

:D--> :D--> :D--> Thank you, Mr. Thomas Crown, LOL. me huffing and puffing to blow out the candles. It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Welcome what fence?. thanks for answering the question. I'm glad to see a few new innie faces. You know my whole life as an innie and I always had an outie. Now I'm an outie and my outie has become an innie. Are you still an innie when outside? Am I an outie inside or only on the outside? How many outies are only outies because they came out? How many innies still need to come out? What fence? What house? What closet? just glad to BE. I gotta be MEEEEEEEE! It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

He's kickin like a kangaroo. Thanks for asking suz. We started birthing classes. Hee Heee Hee Whooo Hee Heee Hee Whooo How's my breathing? The baby room is starting to look very cute. we're very excited and very busy! we have another month still. Just show me the baby! It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

friend from Indy and Chicago. Did she leave with her Lally relatives. are you here, there, anywhere? Anyone? It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Hi cassy, Rob and Clatissa and family were in my area. I was told by leadership at the time that they decided to leave. (99, 2000?) I don't know if they were later M&A for the hell of it or what. They could still be here in the Baltimore area, I don't know. I would like to talk to them too. I left a couple years or so after they did. Good people It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

HI wyte (whitey?) I guess you were leaving Rome City as we were driving up. I'm sure we crossed paths over da years. I'm in the chat room on occasion. Maybe I'll see you there.

Mr. Thomas Crown, Thanks for your posts here. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and good taste in movies. Soooo... Seeing all that you see, how hard would it be for you to leave? You said that your wife and you have decided that you won't let twi come betweem you. Does she agree with you on most of these issues? Would she be willing to leave? You've made some great points. Please continue. I left about 2 years ago. I can't see how anyone would remain silent without questioning these new policy changes. Maybe some are just glad the heat is off. Chilling. post on. Oh and What's keeping you in?

Thanks for replying Rottie I wrote: you replied: Where did you here that from? Did he tell you that personally? ;)--> You may have just added to my point. I am not trying to be patronizing or anything, just challenging the idea. An ultimatum is a form of coercion and an attemt to passively control the decision of the one it is given to. What kind of a choice is "life or death" or "heaven or hell"? It may not be as apparent when we are talking about God, but nor is it apparent to twi innies that they are in an abusive cult. Could I not also say that those that believe in God, "believers", and disagree with me just don't see it because they are "innies"? They don't see the control. All they see is the good. They don't see the manipulation. They only see the "free will". They don't see my freedom. They only see my sin. Is the concept of being saved all that different from TWI's view of being in the household. The word "saved" alone implies that if your not saved your in for some sh1t. So, what do ya think?

I don't have much time to reply, nor did I get thru the last few posts. Sorry but... Does anyone else think that the bible and christianity and a number of religions are set up in a way that they are prone to "cult" characterists? God is good and good always. Why? Because He says he is and most people agree that he is. What happens if you don't live according to the loving principles he has set up? You die without eternal life. Maybe you aren't blessed as much, maybe more bad things happen to you, maybe if you don't love him he doesn't treat you the same way he treats his beloved? I know, I might be causing an uproar. The devil is wrong and evil. Why? Because God says he is and most people agree with Him. Satanists think its the other way around. Why are they wrong? Well they do have the word Satan in their name. What will happen to them? THey will not have eternal life, and maybe they will burn a little in the lake of fire or just die the second death. Depends on your interpretaion of the bad things that God says will happen. I'll try to get back here soon. Of course by that time ther will be another 50 posts.

Weakness brings down strength was the popular way to repeat it over and over and over and ...in my area. In TWI being unequally yoked really wasn't being yoked to a weaker "ox", it was being yoked to a stronger one. Being a good wayfer is just yoking yourself to another weak 'ox'. Be careful little weak ox. Don't go sniffing other bull's sh!t. You might be lured away. Keep plowing and don't look back even when massa LCM whips you back in line. I found TWI herd and I did eat sh!t. Isn't that in Isaiah? I heard this uneqully yoked BS a lot. I had "unbelieving" friends. Of course if they didn't decide to come to fellowship in the leadership's determined time, I was to ditch these friends like trash. A couple of times I did try and cut back my time with them, but I did usually start hanging out with them more and more again. What was I to do? I didn't have an innie in my age group in our area and most folks were married anyway. I had a few single people my parents age that I could hang with. What if I didn't want to hang with them all the time. Always talking about God and of course there was the unspoken rule that when ever you were out with another believer you should always try and witness (even more so than usual). (Maybe that wasn't 'unspoken'). What if I didn't really like them and didn't want to be around them more than a couple of hours twice a week? I guess I just had to renew my mind. Isn't that simple?!

I did chuckle when you said it would be short, as I looked at the paragraphs you wrote. :D--> I have respect for you and your decision. I don't think I could leave either if my spouce didn't want to. This is the concern I have with one of my siblings. I think at times that his eyes betray his twi loyalty, but I know his spouce would probably never leave. Nor do I think he would ever bring it up to her. Of course this is all speculation on my part. When I look at my parents I see that both of them don't seem happy. Actaully, right now I see the one that I would have thought would never want to leave as the one that may have the greater yearning for freedom. At this point I don't think me bringing up controversial topics about twi or religion would be a good idea right now. Since my marriage and now our baby-to-be, things between us all have gotten a lot better. Hopefully, I will serve as an example to them of a happy, successful, healthy escapee, without grease spots (check my undies). It is nice to see that someone honors their commitment to their spouce more than any other commitment. Thanks Lindy

It was a lot of things. -I started really considering things I learned in college and other read/studied sources. -I had a number of "secular" friends to discuss things with (while trying to witness)(unequally yoking myself, you know). -The control and constant invasion of my private life was getting out of control. -But mostly it took seriously evaluating over several years the "Word" I had been taught, not getting answers and realizing most of it was either wrong or not worth sticking around for. Oh and swing dancing, (its from the devil, you know). :D-->

Anyone know what has/is happening with this great young lady?

Last night the Sugar Hill Gang showed up. A Hap, Hope, a hippady hop hop, you don't stop to the boogie woogie boogie da B. :D-->

I have family in, as some of you know, and I think at times they want to leave. It's just a guess though. How hard would it be for you to be Johny Jump Out? Even with a spouse or relatives in. What would it take? Why not now? How hard would it be, or was it for you? What would be the price you'd pay? What would be the last straw? insurgent, troubled wine, wayward, I would especially like your thoughts. Lindy

Thanks all. Sometimes when I'm visiting with family or talking to the few innies that I know, I think I can sence somewhere in them they want to leave and do what I did. Of course, they would never admit that. Actually it kind of hurts to hear them talk the talk. It is so evident to me now that they are so repressed and their way of thinking is controled. "Control your thinking" ever hear that. I did a lot as a kid. Now I am realizing what it is like to really think and not just think I think. Didn't LCM used to say that the other way around? As an artist, the ideas are really flowing now. I don't have enough time to make all my ideas happen right now while their fresh. I am regaining the confidence in myself and my abilities and that is exciting. The sky is the limit. It feels good to be an artist again and not just a class card producer. I do hope I will make some sort of dent in the minds of my family and friends that are still stuck in. Thanks again you guys and gals. You rock too!

It was a surprise, even though he is like a third brother. He doesn't usually call often. He was freaking me out at first I thought maybe he was going to tell me some horrible news or something. Instead he seemed concerned about me leaving the ministry. Still? Maybe he thought I was going to come back. I think most people were told I needed to 'take a break'. I think I might of told people that at first as well. Anyway, we talkied about it a little, and I told him why I left. He is the first innie/family type person that I have told. I also told him I left know full well that mos tof the people that cared about me would think of me and treat me differently. (hint, hint, nudge, nudge) It felt good. I think I am a lot more comfortable and confident talking about it now. I am not threatened by them or concerned much about their opinion of me anymore. I have really thought about big question in life and know what I know and know what I don't know. Thanks GS! Actually, I had to contain myself to keep from laughing at some of the things he was saying. I'm decieved! I've been tricked by the Adversary! God wants the best for me! After I told him about my questioning God's existence he said I need to let God prove himself to me. How does that work? I tried that for 20 years, a good portion of those years I really belived that it would work. The thing is, the things he said didn't even faze me. It felt good. DAMN GOOD! ________________________________________________ My brother, if you are reading this, I do respect your opinion and your decisions. But,"I" want the best for you. I want you to have real answers. I want you to really think about things outside of the Vay doctrine cliches. I love you and hope everything is well for you and your family. ________________________________________________ Lindy It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

more great words by Long Gone and Dot. I seem to be too slow a typest to keep up. Well said. Well said.

A wonderful set of posts here. Dot- amazing post. Thank you. laleo- I don't think I can say it any better than Long Gone. Yes, testimonials are powerful, but they only support and explain the labels. No, not all of Dots posts were rape. But does that really matter. If you rape one person, you are a rapist. If you do it several times, your a serial rapist. It is not "calling him something other than what he was". Just because every instance was not rape does not change that fact. Labels have a purpose. Lets not ignore it. laleo said: It is words like "violated" that confuse the issue and lessen the impact of what "sick phucks" do. So, yes, lets please keep things in perspective. Abigail said I agree. I have had a lot of female friends that have been raped and/or abused in some way. Most of them agree as well. Even if it does reinforce thier sence of powerlessness, why would that be so bad. It was not their F***ing fault! If any of you have a problem with the term rape in relation to VPW, I'm not going to be one to say sorry and make up another name for you. DEAL WITH IT! and get used to it because it was/is the truth. OK? Lets stop negating the seriousness of what he did by whining about labels and how dissimilar some of the details were. Lets do as Dot requested and "LOOK AT THE THINGS HE DID AND FORGET THE SIGNS THESE YOUNG GIRLS DID OR DID NOT DO." That will without a doubt reinforce the labels. I'm sorry if I was the one that opened that can of worms. It was not what I meant or intended. I'll repeat LONG GONE and alfakat Calling him a serial rapist doesn't say every account was rape, but that many were and the others didn't get as far as he would have liked. Can I say that any other way? Soul stealing is the perfect name for this thread.

We posted at the same time Abigail, I agree. laleo- To me it is usually a remark, advance, or touch that is in an inappropriate way, inappropriate place, all around inappropriate.

laleo- good point. I need to be more clear here. I think there are definte signs that a women does not want to have sex other than saying "no". Maybe I should scratch the second half of the statement. Although, I was thinking of it in light of the first half. I was trying to emphisize the intent of the person forcing themselves on the other and the confusion and inability of a person to always see what is going on when it is happening to them. I guess I didn't do that very well. It was late, as it usually is for me here and I don't always say things the way I intend to. Sorry.

I wouldn[t have expected it, Abigail. I too have been a bit of a mouse at times. I didn't always speak my mind in TWI either at least not the controversial side of it. My problem is that somehow I let people talk over me. I don't think I speak softly in public situations but people have in the past and do still start talking just after I do and I usually stop talking whenthey do this. Untill recently. I have been trying to just keep talking when people do it now. Most of the time these punks just keep talking louder and louder over me. Very impolite and very annoying. I never understood why someone would feel the need to do this. I think they just want to here themselves talk. Anyways, the other night my wife and I were talking to some catholic friends of ours about the existence of God and what not, and this started to happen a lot. Finally, I just yelled "What the FUCl That got their attention and they didn't do it again all night. I don't think they will any time soon either. It is nice to come here and finish a sentence and complete a thought here at GS. It also helps me figure things out that I am wondering about. You just have to take that first leap. I used to be terrible at public speaking. Now I think I am pretty good. Especially when no one else is talking. ;)-->

Oldies- yet another one for you. You said OK, here it is in plain English. If it was not concentual sex, it was RAPE! There is not really any room for grey areas here. If someone refused him or got away from him, then they didn't have sex. Did they? If someone was coersed, manipulated, or confused into haveing sex, it was rape. IF these women couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't know how to say NO in their situation but DID NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM, it was rape. VPW was not just a rapist, but a serial rapist. I know that sounds terrible. It WAS and IS! Your just going to have to get used to it.

What is the deal here!!! This is not a doctrinal thread. Why the need to discuss semantics? Was it just the several women here at CS that VPW had non-consentual sex with? Was it only 10, 20 wommen? Was it 100, 200? Was it concentual with 10, 20 all but ten or twenty? Lets not kid ourselves. This is not the point. Would it matter if he only raped 20 and had consentual sex with the other 100? Would that make some of you feel better? How about if it were only a few head leaders that did the same thing? Would that make you feel better? You think this nit-picking does not take something from these women? Then why do we see these responces you get? It does not matter if it was not every single sexual encounter. Take a look at the thread the Profile of a Sexual Preditor. The reality is that it was probably more like hundreds of women. The man was a preditor. Lets not nit-pick how what I just said is not provable. But you know it is probably true.

I say you need to have more fun with this. How about... I can't, I'm bleeding from my a$$. or I'm sorry, I had scheduled gargling Listerine all night. or but the original Family Feud reruns are on tonight! or Isn't the Word over the World? or I'm sorry I just started a water ballet class they only meet on fellowdang nights. or We don't need to go. I've already witnessed to everyone. or I can't, I'm flying in tonight to be naked on the Howard Stern Show tomarrow. or I orry au ut au ong ov whe a uz icki enu udda ov a iv. (I'm sorry I cut my young off while licking peanut butter off a knife) Just a few you can use, free of charge.