Ham

For Loy's "victory speech" simply substitute "the one true household" for "the communist world", "Headquarters" for "Kapuchea" and "over-run with devil spirits" for "Vietnamese". Fits to a "T".

Cripe, that almost would sound like Hitler's "acceptance speech" at Nuremberg had he survived. Just substitue "Aryan" for "communist", "Germany" for "Kampuchea" and "Jewish" for "Vietnamese". Staff and Corps- if the time ever comes, your wonderful BOT and "leadership" will turn you over like there's no tomorrow- "the PEOPLE made us do it". "It was THEIR idea, we just went along with the gag..." Hope you have a good story.

Maybe THIS WEB SITE will answer the question.

We'd have to change the song: "When the Mars hits your eye like a big custard pie that's.. well, something, anyway"

Belle, my mom took one look at me and basically said, "no way". No license for you, heh heh. The alternative would have been, at least at the time, horrific.

Probably couldn't get a real job having so many skeletons in the closet..

I agree. They taught us to fight, and dirty at that: With our family. Sixteen easy lessons to learn how to smile, nod, and think they are full of ...., all at the same time. And never accept no for an answer. "You wanna take this class?" "No." "Well, maybe you just don't know all the benefits like I do..." With our acquaintences and co-workers. NEVER (at least from a practical sense) accept NO for an answer. "You wanna take this class?" "No." "Well, maybe you just don't know all the benefits like I do..." With our spouses. Continuously look for any form of "devilishness" and report it immediately. Can't have anything "unclean" in the camp, you know.. Probably the worst, they taught us to fight dirty with OURSELVES. Just renew the mind, ignore the bad manners, hold questions about idiotic doctrine in abeyance, until TWI experts can "get back to you about it". Sit and take it because "the bible tells me so". Forget that that little voice telling you all is not well may just not be the devil himself.

"Whoever wishes to blame or attack me is entitled to do so. I regret I didn't have enough experience to totally control the movement. On the other hand, with our constant struggle, this had to be done together with others in the communist world to stop Kampuchea becoming Vietnamese. "For the love of the nation and the people it was the right thing to do but in the course of our actions we made mistakes." Yep. Several million "mistakes". Those are the words of Pol Pot. And in the end, it was not much more than "I regret I couldn't fully control the movement"- or rather, "the PEOPLE made me do it". Denial, to the end.. even from the leader of the cult..

I have read some of the junk people have written. To me, the attitude of "well, boys will be boys" is reprehensible.

Def, quite true, and they did it in broad daylight. I wasn't thinking of going back as far as Cambodia- but the enormity of that was about the same as that of the Jewish holocaust. One point something million human beings, tortured and murdered. Maybe we have not learned the lesson, yet.

It would be fitting if Martinpuke had to spend the rest of his days as a janitor in one of those dreaded holocaust museums..

But what gives this denial phenomena such a "cult" appeal? I think that it is a matter of trust. Anybody that has enough of an "open" mind in this regard, to even CONSIDER that people can be so devilish, are a threat. A threat- no "implicit obedience". Another threat- questioning orders, or the logic or sense of ANY dictate from immediate or higher superiors. Its your job, just to JUMP. I honestly think the bastards are loaded with the same stinking spirits. Same tactics. "Well, Loy wasn't THAT bad. He did give us da verd.." Same frigging denial.

Politics aside. So Arabs claim land was stolen- and I don't EXACTLY agree with the notion that we owe "them" a living or anything quite like that- I don't think that is really what its all about. Hitler named his enemy. If he wasn't stupid enough to write it down in Mein Kamf perhaps we would not be talking about this. The "enemy" was, in HIS opinion, LESS THAN HUMAN. Most of his men completely agreed with him. Just a little side note, Martin Luther practically believed the same thing. At this point, I don't quite know what to think about that. According to Hitler, The Jews were genetically inferior. The Jews were not ONLY genetically inferior, their genetic nature made their character UNREDEEMABLE. The Jews could not be trusted. The Jews were the CAUSE of Germany's trouble. Under Hitler's regime, the Jews were driven from public office, they were driven from their homes into ghettos, they were SYSTEMATICALLY targeted for destruction- the "final solution" to the "Jewish problem". This is documented. Not to mention the horrific medical "experiments" performed on them. I guess Hitler thought they were good for something. Ptooie. Don't tell me the "solution" was gonna be a slap on the wrist, and a hearty "well, behave yourselves, boys". History records something far worse. On the surface, I see how such an account can be hard to believe. Hard to believe, indeed. I STILL find it hard to think that people can be THAT evil. But I can think it. "Modern" times are no better, except perhaps we take action a little bit faster. We've had, what- at least two similar attempts in the last twenty years to eliminate an ethnic or unique group of people. Apparently, evil does not like to change- it likes it here. "They" would just LOVE for us to "just get over it".

Hey, no problemo. Probably good to remember some stuff anyway. At least it doesn't hurt, at least like it did. A lot of the self-righteous @$$holes probably have a few suprises waiting for them in life though.

Catcup, I think Wa**a*e and Mr. he who speaks fondly about his vegetables are first cousins..

Just a little point- ALL water contains large clusters of molecules. Its called hydrogen bonding. If you add something that mixes with water, such as ethanol (burbon or scotch), the mixture STILL consists of large molecules, as the water bonds to the alcohol nearly as readily as it does to other water molecules. The forces between the molecules from hydrogen bonding is what keeps the molecules in close proximity (liquid form) at room temperature. If dissolving oxygen in the water breaks it up into smaller units, there would logically be less bonding between the water molecules, as a whole. The whole point- if adding oxygen does what they claim, the water would no longer act like water.

Sincerely, thanks for your contribution Catcup. You may say that this one hit pretty close to home for me.

And you, "Rev." can eat three meals without mixing bread and vegetables, drink water for "miraculous" energy, you simpering idiot, don't even think of claiming MY failure as some kind of victory, or vindication for YOU. Just wait you SOB. Just wait and see what happens to you when YOUR wife decides to quit taking your .....

Looking back, I can say that since we were hitched together with vey doctrine and practice, that there WERE times that "they" were really able to work us over. What a blind idiot I was..

Here is a link to some science I would call the "real deal". Enjoy if you know chemistry or physics.. it really blows the jackasses "science" out of the water. http://www.remember.org/History.root.rev.html http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-...enial/blue.html I think about the only reply from the deniers to most of this is "wah, wah, wah, you're not playing fair.."

But I think I have the anwer to that. It inspires HATE. No longer are "they" watching YOU, "they" are watching "them". You might say it has "cult appeal".

Yep. Why bother.. Just another juicy tidbit for us to "circle the wagons" around. In a way, as far as the group is concerned, the bizarre belief is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that you band together and defend it to the death, supporting those who were gracious enough to give you a few crumbs of "truth".. Makes me wonder why ole vic would choose such rubbish for us to tie our wagons to. Lots of better causes, like "the earth is flat" or "they never really went to the moon"- some have found these pretty effective.

So much for "conventional" Way marriages..

Funny though- I found out what SHE was really like. A real "redneck" at times, but I thought it was kind of "cool". Anything better than the roles determined by Vey personnel was an improvement. I turned out being a forty-some year old hippie. Sorry, just can't fight it any more, heh heh.

Groucho, this describes me pretty much exactly. Everything we did was ministry related. When we were finally out, she found out what I really was like. It scared the he** out of her, and I can't hardly blame her either. My marriage only lasted about four years outside of TWI. I think she thought that she had married a monster. Who knows, maybe she was right. No common interest (the ministry) and it was dead. Twenty five years, and it was over.