Ham

Seriously, you may have a real valid point there. with the code of silence, and the real strange doctrines that were embraced only (or mostly) by "the inner circle", anything is possible.

I dunno.. it would probably go more like this: "donna, have harv throw some more saltpeter in the fire."

I don't know.. but just a thought of seeing rosie wearing one of those red or black hooded robes, prancing around the cauldron and throwing a little salt peter in the fire might be pretty convincing.

Pat, you mustve been praying for me, heh heh. Just thinking, the bread and vegetables guy could use this as an example of how a thanks letter should be written. Probably think it was a compliment.

"Blessings" column. To whom it may concern, I would like to thank you for the little effort you expended for the thanksgiving weekend event. At not other time did da verd become so living and real for me. As I sat through yet another eighteen hours of such great spiritual enlightment, I could actually feel how Jeremiah felt when he was buried up to his neck in excrement. After a while, the teachings really began to smell of the same, of the bull variety. Your unnerving attention to "details" for the weekend surely made it all possible. Thanks once again for an unforgettable weekend. Love to the household, your eternally ingratiated follower, Joe.

OK Pat.. I feel something coming on, regard outhouses. It's floating around up there somewhere.. maybe a couple of days. No guarantees.

Now, I saw on another thread- another nice new phrase- "you can come back. Things are better here now, really." I would sooner "go back" to living under an outhouse..

House, I am not holding my breath while waiting for an apology either. Probably never see it, I can live with that too. But I think it was more of the principle of the thing. Most people that I have met actually care about the effect their words have on others. These are what are termed by TWI as "rank unbelievers" (another one of those great phrases!) and "empties floating by in the river of life" (whooee, pretty good spiritual judgement from one who spiritually couldn't find his rear end in the dark if his life depended on it..). I guess my point is, the worst of the worst (at least in TWI's opinion) has more kindness, consideration and honesty than the MAJORITY of the whole group combined. I saw some people with very minor faults recieve treatment that ordinarily and logically should be reserved for child molesters, rapists and murderers. And most of the "household" agreed with such treatment, at least some of us started waking up. "Let the devil work them over" was the supposed judgment. "No help from us". Have to get up in the middle of the meeting to use the bathroom? You were possessed with devil spirits from hell; just demonstrated how slothful you were, so "disrespectful" of the convening MOG. This actually happened. This and much more done because of another nice little phrase: "gotta keep the household clean". Funny how while all this stuff was going on, the most unclean bastard was sitting on the top of this supposed holy and righteous organization. And it has not changed. Same filth there today.

Good point Belle. That may also explain why there was so much mistrust and suspicion. Craigers and company knew what THEY did. And they knew how well they could keep a secret, by silence, intimidation and any other means possible. Is it possible that they were so skewed that they thought everybody else in the ministry conducted their lives in the same manner? Like the corpse said about me: "we KNOW that you is screwed up.." more like he was saying "I knows screwed up, and you must be screwed up too."

Holy cow! They even cut their financial ties from their biggest supporter. Of course "good" reasons were given. But was what was done "good" or "best"?

It may be a shot in the dark, but, If I were a younger staffer, or considering going in corps/vey disciple.. a logical conclusion would be: In twenty or thirty years I am going to be one of these people posting here about the BS I had to put up with. Consider the crap they did to ordinary folk like me, not corps, not staff- all I wanted was to go to "twig", learn the bible, have fun. What chance do you think you will have as the years go on? If the organization even lasts that long- you will be viewed not as an asset. Health care costs (or even the possibility of health care costs- we all get old sooner or later) will make you more of a liability than you are worth to them. A lot of folks here waited, hoping things would get better; and they sure did not.

Hopefully it's not just another "leak" for the WAYGB..

They've probably made him a region coordinator. Now wayfers far and wide can be warned of the dangers of mixing bread and vegetables. Funny, among my first thoughts when I met this guy was, "man, how did a guy that has less than an equivalent of 5th grade education make it through the corps?" On top of that, he had a pretty stupid looking smile when he fondly talked about his bread and vegetables..

Kinda reminds me of the little "meeting" before I never went back. "We know something is wrong with you. Your only chance is to spill your guts. Now." For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what great evil that I was supposed to be or have done. The guy was just shooting in the dark. I said that basically, "I'll get back to you on it" and left. Last I saw or ever care to see them again. He wasn't real sharp- this was the guy who's claim to fame was eating three times a day without mixing his bread and vegetables. Cripe, if we had any books or stuff from "cop outs" I am sure he would have known. Frustrated, he just started shooting in the dark.

Belle, now if they confronted with 100 decibels (maybe some real good music) and about two gallons of beer, things would have been different!

Galen, that explains a lot. I think thing went sour in a real big way when Ole Craigers finally figured out how to get enough full time corpses to pass around to everybody. His mandates were to be obeyed to the letter, and he figured out a way to get the job done. In my opinion, MOST of the corspes, at least the ones I met, were expertly schooled in advanced meddling. Their kids would "accidently" find something they would consider incriminating in your house. I can document this, but will let the party have their privacy. The fact that the kids had absolutely no business in your private affairs was irrelevant. It's pretty despicable to stoop to using your own children as moles and stooges. Makes me curious about the "believer" that did the painting for you. I can almost hear the justification. "Well, we'll "talk" to him, but we are God's household. Do you think we are supposed to have secrets from each other? What else are you not telling me?" Those are the kind of arguments I have heard. I would not be suprised if that was partly how they treated you. For us, I think the full time corpse thing was one of the factors that really killed anything good that ministry had going for it that was left. We avoided the rotten apples as long as we could too, and could ignore stupid mandates. The full-time meddlers association made that impossible after a while. I won't say all corps were bad. My cousin is a corps grad, and she is pretty terrific. She did have enough sense to know when to leave.

The other common phrase that went with that: "You just need to be spiritual enough to handle it". Really helps after being screamed at an hour and a half for something you did not do..

I think the WOW thing got me going on this one.. you know, scream first, figure it out later. Gotta walk in love! When overseers heard the word "loan" it was probably like red to a bull. Flew in a rage- couldn't convince them of anything after that. Still, no apologies, "they are just doing their job.."

Got to thinking about this one: "this is the age of confrontation". "all that is necessary is a genuine spiritual suspicion". They quoted and revered that junk like God himself came down and wrote it in stone tablets himself. Just wondering, how many of you ever received an apology along with a statement that they (higher ups doing the "godly" confronting) were WRONG? I can't remember even a single incident. Usually an underling would justify it, "they did it because they love". To he** with whatever effect it had on the one wrongly accused. Just take a deep breath and get over it- "renew your mind". I am normally a decent human being.. but I can "get somebody by the throat" if I really have to. I can count the number of times I did so in my life on less than half a hand, and then only when it was really needed. But for Martinpukes underlings, they did not seem to be happy unless they could confront the he** out of somebody before breakfast, right or wrong. I think things got to the place that whosoever could scream the loudest was revered as more spiritual.

I do not claim to be a prophet of doom or anything, but what would it take? One or two more attacks like 9-11? The money would still be worth something, they could use it to wallpaper the old red barn.. I think most of us could fend for ourselves in pretty austere circumstances, not them. They could always go to busy intersections and carry signs, "will brainwash for food".

Yep. But the tactic is based upon an unproven premise, that when they reach the end of the rainbow, the money will still be there, or have value. My bible says something about trusting in uncertain riches..

Yeah, Oldies.. you can drive! Of course "better" is a relative term. Better than what? Oh yeah.. the new classes. Must be "better" than the old wineskins.. somebodies gotta pay for that little investment. "Unlike our old horse poop, we now make sure it is well cooked."

Sounds typical. No apologies or explanations for what happened. Just "come back, the water is a little warmer now.."

It was not a bribe either. "If you do so and so, I will pay for the car." The lady saw what she perceived a change for the positive in her son's life and wanted to contribute something, out of love. I think the leadership wanted to kick him off the field- somebody higher up still had some common sense.

Plus he had all the payments, cash in hand. For the whole year. The leadership was aware of all of these details. Insurance paid for the year. If the mom did indeed fall into hard times, it would not have made a bit of difference. Still, they ranted.. you know, yell first, then try to figure out what's really going on later.