Ham

Wayfer Not, I think you are right.. I think they kept the cussing to a minimum so kids could watch it. Steve, I think you have a real point. I will revise it, "if you are Rosie, consider using a minimum of makeup. That's gotta make somebody feel sorry for you". Would not want to scare the jury too much. They might vote to lock em up and throw away the key just on instinct for survival. How about, number 7! 7. If you find it difficult or next to impossible to tell the truth (pretty likely scenario), and by some stroke of stupidity you find your self on the stand under cross examination, answer incriminating questions with a double negative. "truly, at no time did I never support abuse of any kind". Keep saying this while keeping the mistaken notion that "da jury" is gonna buy it.

I thought a little about that. It would be funny if they were "cursed" and HAD to tell the truth for a day.. reminds me of Jim Carey in "Liar, Liar", the bathroom scene where he's trying to fabricate an excuse for having a continuance. "What are you doing?" "I'm beating the he** out of myself." But I think that is what the half bottle of tranquilzers is for. Helps them say anything.

And that's another thing. If things are so much better, kinder and cheery, why do they have to spend half a fortune on LAWYERS? What is this with the almost constant litigation? Might be more honest if they slowly leaked out- "people can come back now. It would make it much better for our lawyers (have to pay them you know).."

Probably WAY to late for them to try to distance themselves from the guy. Look how long it took for them to oust Loy. Probably still waiting for "the word" of the lawyers..

OK. I know this is another nice "what if" deal, but suppose some of our dreams come true, and the BOD and crew find themselves facing "Da Jury". Being the kind and generous folk that we are, perhaps we should offer them some advice to help them get off the hook. I was thinking: 1. Learn to Cry. Hard, and for a long time. Some jury members may be impressed. 2. If you cannot learn to cry, there still may be some options. Pay Lind** to work you over with his stick. Dark, depressed, sagging eyes may have the same effect, second only to crying your eyes out through the whole trial. 3. Go to one of the cheapest second hand clothing establishments that you can find. Don't wanna give the impression that you have any money. 4. If you're Rosie, consider not wearing make up. That's gotta make somebody feel sorry for you. 5. Rosie should forego the "treatment" with the stick. Probably not make a bit of difference. 6. A couple of Zoloft and a handful of valiums may help. I could keep going, but won't spoil all the fun.. any other good suggestions?

Kinda interesting.. the really good guys that were near the top either left or were ousted long, long ago. It took them a lot longer to find the good folks further down the tree and pressure them, or run them off. I think the full time corps / conduit from hell thingy is the best thing they could have done. Sure didn't take long to see the organization for what it really was.

Yep. Could be why we did run, or did not fit in- we (or they) found out that we were not rats.

Still, it would be preferable compared to the "beating" they may have coming their way. Holy smokes- seems like prosecuters are always looking for a nice easy case- and this would probably be it. Side with and protect abusers and criminals on a regular basis- I think they are in serious trouble. The current thing is not about just "treating people mean". Here we have a guy caught in the act, so to speak. And they continue to support the bastard. I am not legal expert, but from what I understand, if its a conspiracy, all kinds of things go away, like statutes of limitations, corporate "protection" included. Seems the settled lawsuits that implied corporate wrongdoing should get somebody's attention. At least one judge suggested that there was evidence indicating some kind of conspiracy. All of their piddling little millions would not be enough for them to buy their way out of it. Think of it: it could be an easy victory for a young, coming up the ranks assistant prosecuter. This little cornfield outfit does not have the resources to be able to put up much of a fight, compared to some of the larger groups. But I am only dreaming and guessing, and posting this only as such. At least in my mind it sounds pretty logical.. I don't think it's too much of a derail.. things certainly would be better! Just never be able to go back..

Honestly, I think it would have gone a lot better for them to have closed the place down voluntarily.

Deleted.. sorry, putting them in the wrong threads today for some reason..

Belle, I would like to add, don't think that the "corporate veil" is going to protect you. Now is the time to take some advice from the other fleeing rats. I'd run for my life..

I dunno.. maybe they are just trying a new tactic. No longer will they need an army of lawyers to pry the name "the way" from other organizations. Make it look bad enough, and in a short time, organizations will be ripping "the way" from all of their charters and letterheads voluntarily, like there's no tomorrow!

Hey House, here's another one "like the yak family". Used to encourage the group to protect itself. I think it turned into "like the rat family"- instead of running off, they tie their tails together and confront the world with the "logic" of their message!

The subject of two of the most recent threads may be pretty relevant here. Things are better, really? Why then are they STILL protecting "clergy" that really, really sinned? They are still calling they guy, supporting the guy through his "opportunity". Same old stuff. "If it really happened, God would have shown us". I think the TWI spin experts have quite a lot of work ahead of them. This one may do them in. Time for ole rico to calm the crowds, somehow explain that the ship is not really sinking, while the innies watch the rats run for their lives. Looks like things very likely may be much better.

How about: "you are welcome the The Way". Of course they don't use that one any more. That one was replaced with "if you don't kiss our rear ends in the exactly prescribed manner, don't let the door hit you in the a**". Maybe they will get all gushy and cheery faced again. People will be "welcome" again, just have to redefine what "welcome" means. "You are 'welcome' (we will gladly take your money, time, family life, and any other perceived resource. We still expect you to continue to kiss the MOG's rear end, however. Failure to do so will still place you outside of the walls of 'zion', in the realm of wild beasts. 'Results' are still not guaranteed. But you can come back; things are better than they were. When we abuse you, it will be while wearing a cheery smile, and using softer words) at De Vey. Hows that for a "literal translation according to usage"?

From Houseisarockin: "We've heard it rumored they were working on new classes. Ed Horney went somewhere, somewhere in the belly of the system. I've wondered what he was doing. New classes...I've wondered. All it is, all it is." I must have missed this the first time through. Went into the "belly of the system" heh heh- I sure wouldn't want to be him when he "comes out" heh heh heh..

Yep. And the silence is almost deafening. I wouldn't hold my breath for them to chime in here in their own defence, not that they even care. Perhaps they are pleased to be living so as to have "the ministry to be blamed". But I do not know how different they really are from other groups. Once you make a claim of infallibility, that Craigers is THE Mog, and to this day adhere to his mandates, suggestions and questionable doctrines like they were written in stone... in their opinion he was speaking excathedra (sorry exie, NO comparison to you intended!) , and will defend his stuff to the death. Sounds familiar to at least one other group. I think this is part of the heart of the subject of this thread. Once you claim infallibility, you get everything that comes with it. This includes the blame when it goes sour. The situation with this clergy guy is pretty darn sour. Passing the blame to poor stooges will not work very much longer. Not a very comfortable position for TWI I think. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. They must be between a rock and a hard place. Admit the wrong and wrongdoing, and losen your grip over the little flock that is left. Whatya afraid of? Afraid they might be able to have a little fun? Or hold on to the austere and devilish mandates of your lords and masters- LCM, Rosie and group? In my opinion, either way, they lose.

OK Bob! Yes, I think TWI is responsible, in part (a large one) or in whole. In my opinion they bear responsability, either way you look at it. 1. They are infallible, hold the secret decoder, know all the secrets of devils and men. They had to have been very aware of what was happening, and allowed it. 2. They are snake oil salesmen, or their decoder does not quite decode right. They really can't see devils through 10 feet of lead, concrete and reinforced steel. Their arrogance of believing otherwise at least allowed this "little problem" to slip by. They are then guilty of negligence. And I am not blaming the poor stooges that bought into the junk. It may be harsh, but I too was a stooge once..

And from my observations- the product itself was regarded to be above scrutiny. Usually the fault landed on somebody- had to be because they had some secret fault, or they had "proven themselves to systematically miss it" or some other such nonsense. Kinda like the poor guy that accidently gave ole craigers a rough plane ride. He was attributed almost every attribute from slothful to outright devilish. My point is that the product (how they think they understand the bible) is not really all that that they claim.

Abigail, I really do agree with you. I also feel that a lot of good, well meaning people were set up for failure. They were expected to see devil spirits through 10 feet of lead. After all, they were taught "how". I think the well meaning folks who seemingly "missed it" really paid the price, often publically. Like what I heard in a couple of "counciling" sessions. "If you will do EXACTLY what we tell you, you WILL get the situation resolved." When failure ensues, somebody has to be tagged with the blame. Sometimes life just kind of does not work that way. And the corps that I knew. Some were pretty sharp. Others though.. pretty damn arrogant. Somehow the "one size fits all" walk by the spirit is not at all what it is cracked up to be.. at least in my opinion. What I think I really object to is the claim that somehow this is the ultimate in "Christian Living"; it can't be- at least in my opinion- if somebody that is doing all of the supposed right things misses something like this.

And, Uncle H, "Rosie... show some leg.." brrrrrrrrr..

Yep, Uncle H, follow the money.. somebody's gotta help them out with all of those pesky old lawsuits.

I have heard the kind of answers given to similar questions. "Why are you asking?" "What is the motivation behind this question?" No straight answers. If things go real bad, they would rather publically defame and/or mark and avoid the poor stooge that "missed it". The product must be preserved, AT ALL COSTS.

"Branch coordinators insist such a thing could never have taken place because the daughter of B would have to have been possessed to do such a thing. She could not have been possessed because God would have given them revelation via discerning of spirits if she were." Abigail, I think this little "account" really says it all. If there is any weakness in the organization to be exploited by anybody, this has got to be it. What arrogance! I cannot logically see why anybody in their RIGHT mind still puts up with it. If all the "training" and classes really did what they claimed, they really would have known. This is just one more example showing how spiritually blind and inept they have really become. The overseers have proven themselves to be experts in meddling, even in every insignificant little area of the followers lives, and they miss this one. Like days of old, they strain at the gnat, and swallow the camel. Blind leaders of the blind. I would like to see what they say if innies had the audacity to call them on this. I would bet the farm that the answer would not include, "we were wrong".

Thanks Belle.. no internet at home yet. You'll find me in chat sometime soon, as soon as details work out!