GrouchoMarxJr

I believe that one of the most valuble things that a person can ever have, in this life, is a true friend. I am happy to say that I have some. I can count them on one hand, and I cherish each and every one of them. I'm not talking about friendly aquaintances but meat and potato friends, that you can trust with your life.

None of my true friendships were made through twi. Most of the folks that I knew in twi have totally drifted out of my life. The friendships that I have now are unconditional in nature. Nothing is expected except trust and respect. There is no "maintanence" required with my true friends. We may not see each other for awhile but when the chips are down, we are standing in each other's corner. I guess I was lucky to have connected with these people.

When a person reaches the end of their life and they reflect upon all that is of value to them, things like money, houses, cars, social position, etc. pale in comparison to personal integrity and having true friends. My friends are a true joy to my heart.

Yeah...wuz up?

I remember Steven Roberts. We were at Emporia at the same time...I believe he was 8th corps. Doesn't he have a twin sister or something?

Prayer list? I put him on a different kind of list. ;)-->

I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings? I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms. Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.

Let's see now, how would his resume read?

Former head of cult, defrocked clergyman, accused rapist, and second string college football player seeks any top position that would pay a triple figure salary with full benefits?

Hey numbnuts, if you're not busy, I got a truck that needs unloading.

During my wow year, our family coordinator bought some band-aids on one of her shopping trips. About 4 months later, I cut my finger and needed a band-aid.

Another time, when I was driving a new student to one of the sessions, a car almost hit us...but didn't.

...And how could I ever forget the miracle of Thanksgiving, 1983...I had forgotten to buy the pumpkin pie for dessert but when one of our guests arrived, guess what they had with them?

I never cease to marvel at the signs, miracles and wonders that constantly followed me around during my twi years.

Joe C is still with twi??? Holy moley, I thought that boy had more brains than that!

Another possibility is Bob M...he's been near the top forever. He was a region leader before lcm even was involved with twi. Besides he's plenty arrogant and full of himself...prerequisites for the job.

Insurgent...you could be right about that,,,

Actually bobby boy is talented. Talented at being arrogant, snobish, self-absorbed, and boorish. I always figured that he stuck it out when everybody else was splitting because he figured he would end up near the top when the dust settled...squatters rights or something like that.

When I was in residence at Emporia, I got a surprise during the noon meal...they announced my name for going to Rome City. After being there for about two weeks, bobby sent me a note, asking "what are you doing here?"...I sent him a note back saying "I was hoping you could tell me"...He never liked me after that and the feeling was mutual.

Speaking of doctrine... When a "clergyman" teaches, in private, that having sex with him is God's will...it's not that surprising that he would also teach publicly, that abortion is "ok" with God.

I know of intelligent women who were taught that it was their godly duty to have sex with the mog. When the woman believes the doctrine that is taught her, the rest is easy. Even if the woman "willingly" complies, she is still a victim...even as Jim Jones victimized his followers with koolaid, teaching them it was God's will.

Compare the motives...the woman is sincerly trying to do God's will as it was taught her, the mog is lying to the woman in order to get into her pants. The woman is giving of herself in order to please God (or so SHE believes), the twi leader is taking for himself in order to please himself...AND lying in God's name in the process! How can any reasonable person possibly include the woman in culpability?

It seems to me that the twi apologists here, can rationalize about anything as long as they end up paying homage to what they perceive as their valuable experience with that little cornfield cult.

I guess I use the word "brainwashed" loosely at times. It's a "push button" word for a lot of folks and often times, they'll get up on their high horse and object to it's useage. Ok by me. I realize that while I was in residence, I had freedom of will...I could have left anytime I wanted...almost did a couple of times.

Being a part of twi for 13 years and then leaving, I wanted to know what exactly had happened to me during my "cult years". Make no mistake about it, twi is a cult by every measure. They employ mind control techniques to induce a group think mentality. It's not unique, ask anyone who has endured military basic training. We were not literally puppets on a string, but we were certainly under tremendous pressure to comply.

I disagree with Oldies when it comes to assigning blame for sexual indiscretions. A "high ranking" clergy who directs himself sexually at one of his own flock, takes the full blame for what he has done. He should be taken out and horsewhipped for his crime. In no way is the woman to share in that blame. How dare anyone try to depict the woman as anything other than a victim.

I stand by my comparison of prison guards and twi leaders. Although there are certainly differences between the two, The ingredients of authority and secrecy working together to cause sadistic sexual behavior is evident in both. Several years ago there was an experiment with college students. Half were made guards and half were made prisoners. The idea was to swap roles after several days. The experiment had to be aborted because the first group had become so sadistical that they were afraid someone would get hurt. Under certain conditions, people respond in certain ways...pure and simple.

In my experience, I always felt the arrogance and uncaring attitude when I was around top twi leaders. The degree of their evil behind closed doors is astounding.

If lcm hadn't run off all the talented people in twi, that cast of charecters you list would be cutting the grass on the back forty. I've heard that of all the old timers that Bob M. is still around. I'm surprised that twi didn't "tap him" for one of the top jobs.

coupcake...Tom and Lori were both very good friends of mine. I knew them in Rochester and in Colorado. I lost track of both of them years ago...what happened to Tom, pray tell?

It is my sincere hope to see twi totally bankrupt and out of business before I am laid to my rest. When that glorious day comes, I will raise my glass and make a toast and as Bob Dylan once said "I will stand on their grave til I'm sure that their dead".

fortunateone...you sound as if you have a pretty reliable source for your statements. Are you a recent "outie" or do you have some kind of inside info?

I left twi in 1987 so my opinions are based on what I knew about these people 17 years ago. I just can't imagine the rosie I knew back then as being able to run twi with any authority or fire at all. On the other hand lcm was the type to have a back up plan...seems as though he would have tried to maintain control from a distance with one of his puppets in charge. Maybe I'm wrong...just sorta thinking out loud.

JustThinking...I think you missed my point. The fact that you used Moses as an example indicates that you perceive the twi version of Christianity. In other words, you need an organization, "headed" up by one leader at the top (shall we call him the mog?) who delegates through a chain of command. Afterall, how else could it possibly function???

Organizations are fine if you're selling soap, building houses or pedaling books and tapes. As far as I can tell, Christianity has one head...Christ. The bible says that he orchestrates "his body" in a "spiritual way". I have nothing against Christian organizations as long as they don't hinder the way in which the Christian "church" is supposed to operate. Organizations are not an essential ingredient, according to the bible, in the spiritual functioning of the church...and don't give me that hooey about the gift ministries because they are never told to operate within an organization either.

As far as mixing evil with aspects of an organization, it's really not mixing apples and oranges when you consider my above points. I guess what I should have stated was that Jesus never formed or belonged to any organization nor did he committ any evil. These are two aspects that twi did engage in. Jesus never engaged in either...that was my point. My implication is that the true body of Christ is organization-free in it's purest form and operates best when individuals have their own access to the Head rather than denying this access by referring to an organization instead of going directly to the Head themselves.

Can anybody tell that I have been soured on religion?

Thinking a little more on this subject, I must take note, that when studying the life of Jesus, I do not see any manipulation or secrecy going on at all. No name tags, no lock boxes, no titles, no corporations, no buildings or properties, no organizational plans, no tax exempt status, no lawsuits, no rape accusations, no power echelons, no chain of commands, no political endorsements, no fund drives, bake sales or bingo nights. Jesus never asked to be paid money to teach, never handed out any loyalty oaths to be signed, was never sadistic or controlling or dishonest.

Maybe twi got it wrong in a few places?

insurgent...good question. Why does it become sexual? The experts claim that rape is not so much sexual as it is a control issue. Inversely, extreme control would logically manifest itself into sexual exploitation. Probably because a persons sexuality lies at the very center of their personal life, exploiting it, would give the controller access to the most vulnerable, and personal aspect of the individuals life. I don't know...seems to make sense.

It only goes to show that if twi leaders had truly cared about their flock, this crap would not have happened. A manipulative, sadistic exploiter is the complete opposite of a nuturing, loving Christian leader.

I recently listened to a prominent psychologist who was discussing the treatment of prisoners in Iraq. He stated that whenever there is a situation where one person has absolute authority over another and is operating under a veil of secrecy, that sadistic behavior often developes leading to sexual humiliation and degradation of the "prisoner".

I couldn't help but notice the paralel between the guard/prisoner relationship and the twi leader/follower relationship. There's no doubt that lcm operated with complete authority and with a veil of secrecy. His sexual exploits are known by many...

This would also help to explain how seemingly well intentioned people walked into a situation where they became sadistic and corrupt. The arrogant attitude of leadership, the aloofness, the sexual exploitation perhaps was fueled by the climate of "absolute authority" and "a veil of secrecy". They became kings in their own little kingdoms. As the brainwashed peasants kissed their rings, their minds went over to the "dark side"...Certainly not in every case, but in many.

Someone already mentioned it, but those damn retemories were terribly boring and at times terrifying. We all crammed them into our heads, had to be word for word perfect, or it wasn't good enough.

Lcm would routinely tear a person apart if they missed a single word. Public humiliation and extrememe verbal abuse in front of hundreds, making an example of them. It wasn't enough that you understood their definitions of manifestations...you had to use the exact same words when describing them or you were treated like a complete bufoon. There were many days that I would sit and sweat it out, hoping he wouldn't call on me....

In 1975 I led a blind guy by the arm up to talk to veepee. He asked veepee to minister healing to him, he was really excited! Veepee told him to "take the class and he would receive his eyesight during the class". I heard him with my own ears. The guy took the class, did NOT get healed, and died several months later...stick that in your pipe and smoke it Mike.

Back when I was involved, every person at twig was given a turn to teach on different nights. It seems that every twig I was a part of had somebody that had no business ever trying to "teach". Those were the most boring nights imaginable. Some new guy with a lower than average IQ. and a "reading handicap" would painstakingly read 4 chapters from the book of Samuel and then "expound" on it.

Those were the nights that I usually pulled a 12 pack of cold beer out of the fridge after fellowship just to take the "edge" off.

Craig Martindale...the man who had a thriving business handed to him on a silver platter? The man who totally destroyed this same business because of his own insecure ego and delusions of grandeur? The man who victimized thousands, accused rapist, and defrocked minister? The man whose biblical scholarship is a total joke? The man who taught us that Eve was a lesbian? The man who considered himself the man of God in the world today?

Why, I believe he loads trucks now.

Tomtuttle...that was hysterical! I sat through my share of those dreaded corps nights myself.

The thing that comes foremost to my mind, when considering "boring moments" with twi has to be, hands down, session 4 of pfal. You remember, where the cornfield preacher goes on and on and on about that amazing piece of research, affectionately referred to as "THE FOUR CRUCIFIED". Just bringing it back to my conscious mind causes a dull ache in my frontal lobe.

It was always when this session was scheduled, that I would volunteer for childrens fellowship...hell, I would have volunteered for cleaning the restrooms in a Mexican bean factory with my toothbrush, if it meant that I could somehow escape having to sit through session 4...one moooooore time.

On and on he would go, the never ending explanation of the robbers and the malefactors. I would chew on the end of a pencil to keep from screaming. I would live for that 10 minute break, when I would gobble down 2 cookies, chainsmoke 2 cigaretts and wash it down with some burnt coffee that would make Juan Valdez want to committ suicide. Then it was "back to your seats"...the dreaded death march back to another hour and a half of grifter vic with his skinny tie. Aaaaarrghhh!!!

I think twi was phoney from it's inception to the present day. If God healed anybody in twi, He probably healed them in the same proportion that He heals people who work for Burger King.

I knew a certain twi rev. who got "healed" at the rock of ages and refused any medical attention after that. His funeral was held a few months later.