GrouchoMarxJr

Yeah ex10, now that you mention it, I do remember Richard usually being in a "bad mood". He reminded me of a sulking kid that needed to be slapped. Unfortunately, the rest of us were not so indulged when we were having a bad day.

As far as Linda goes, she seemed like a sweet enough lady, but then how many of us knew at the time that she was veepee's mistress?

Thank Gawd I never had to endure the okies version of "Eves a lesbian, I am the great one, give me your money class" Poor Oak spent all that time "working the material" from that class only to be shot down when he showed how stupid it was.

Making this class was, no doubt, a big moment for king okie. He was replacing pfal and finally elevating himself to the position of the "teacher". He probably fantasized that all his minions would be clamoring for his approval on all they believed and did in their lives. His would be the FINAL word in any situation. Nobody would dare question the great man of gawd! And some day, sitting around the campfire, he would finally get to call all his followers..."my kids".

The man should have been dragged off the podium and had his a$$ kicked in front of everybody.

No Johnny Lingo, I won't flame you. You're entitled to your opinion and afterall, I did ask for opinions.

In hindsight, I don't think corps training was supposed to be about learning new things as much as conditioning people to be obedient. Too many components of the "training" were classic brainwashing tools. The actual content of the training was marginal at best in terms of anything scholarly or academic.

All in all, it was a total waste of time...and as far as Richard Th*m*s goes, what a jerk.

I had been told all sorts of "amazing" things before I went in but once I got there I was terribly disapointed.

I entered the 10th corps at Emporia and soon discovered that this "elite" training consisted of taking all the classess that I had already had 8 times each, trying to stay awake for about 3 hours of either "study hall" or someone trying to teach us how to pack a frickin' suitcase or how to shave "properly".

My food rations were cut approximately in half and the sleep deprivation took it's toll. I must admit that with all the running we did, I was in pretty good shape. The brow beatings from martindale and his flunkies wore thin with me after awhile.

The so-called "work program" was a total joke with so many people at Emporia and so little to do. They had me tightening screws on chairs for a month and when I finished the last chair I was told to do em all again. Several times I almost packed my suitcase and disapeared into the night...I should have.

And we paid good money for this?

I left in 87 and when I first heard about this unbelievable "Eve was a lesbian" teaching, the Dr. Pepper I was drinking shot out my nose.

I remember thinking at the time that this was possibly another projection of the extreme insecurity he feels about his own sexual orientation, or he was smoking crack.

In either case, he had no business standing in front of other people, pretending to be anything other than the moron that he was.

I's almost beyond belief that twi still doles out the same sophmoric diatribe from a defrocked minister who was disgraced in public. I never took this "class" and am curious as to how he "biblically" explained how the serpent took the form of a homosexual woman. Did he just say, "take my word for it?"

Oak, back in 87 (before the loyalty oath), at least half the corps I talked to knew ole craiggers was "off", even then. They would only admit it in one on one conversations with me and in hushed tones.

The ones that thought martindumb was right were the ones getting a salary and the ones who were "close" to getting a salary. I'm afraid that many saw things through their "federal reserve note" tainted glasses.

I also believe that when a lot of folks started walking away, there were others who stuck around simply because they figured they would "really" move up the pecking order once the dust settled and they were still "standing".

One good thing that came out of ....ferbrains demanding his loyalty oath is that people had the opprotunity to hold on to their own convictions and make a statement. They had the opprotunity to "make the word their own" by walking away flipping him the bird as they did it. The spit suckers remained.

I don't mean to change the subject here but I feel that I need to address something that was posted by Catcup on page 10 of this thread.

Catcup relates to us a story about an incident of sexual indiscretion that occurred which involved her roomate and R***** P*ny*rd. I am sure that many readers here probably know who the R***** P*ny*rd is, that she is referring to. I would like to clarify a point that came to my mind while reading her post.

Catcup, you claim in your post that you knew RP and his wife and that you were surprised by RP's behavior towards your roomate. Well, I know RP myself (very well), and I was not surprised by your account at all. In fact, it made me question how well you REALLY knew RP.

Using RP as an example of twi's corrupt system of leadership is really not accurate in this case. I understand that because of wierwilles attitude and behavior towards women sexually, a pattern of sexual corruptness developed among the twi leadership. I believe that there were probably many twi leaders who perhaps started off with good intentions and were corrupted by wierwilles example and attitude.However, this was not really the case with RP.

RP was a fly in the ointment to other twi leaders wherever twi sent him. He operated outside of the 9 dots, so to speak. He was a party dude from the "old days". He liked to drink, smoke and chase women. Always did, probably always will. It was only his own charismatic personality that put him into a leadership position with twi. People would listen to him and he could not be ignored. I recall when he was one of the "slated teachers" at a limb meeting. He was scheduled to teach just before the "grand finale" teaching by the limb leader. RP set the room on fire, and when the limb leader finally came out to teach afterwords, it redefined the meaning of "anticlimatic". Rick was an outlaw who did things differently than he was supposed to and he p*ssed off twi leaders wherever he went.

Catcup, I am not questioning your account of what happened to your roomate. I am merely asserting that using RP's behavior as part of the pattern of corruption taught by wierwille is not accurate. RP would have been chasing other women around no matter WHAT wierwille or other twi leaders did or said. He was doing it before he ever heard of twi and simply did not change.

So why split hairs? Because it gives folks the impression that RP was one of the wierwillite clone stooges (there were many) who did what he did because of the groupthink mentality that swallowed up twi leadership. I don't excuse or condone any of RP's behavior. For gosh sakes, he did time in prison for pulling the old "Ponzi scam" on people. The reason I am taking the time to post this, is because I just wanted to set the record straight. Say what you will about the guy but he kept his individuality and independance in a situation when most didn't. Why mention this? Because in 1987 when people were running around confused and upset, RP was one of the few twi leaders who stayed true to his convictions and sat people down and gave them honest answers about what was really going on. Numerous corps came to him in tears, not knowing what to do and he gave them jobs, he gave them money, he let them live in his house. After walking away from twi, he poured out his life and did everything possible to help everyone he could. I will remember him for that, not for trying to get into your roomates pants.

When wierwille claimed to be pals with all these spiritual heavies, maybe he was referring to the people he stole from.

Good point Oakspear, veepee layed that "our ministry" crap on pretty thick. At one point I actually felt like I could show up there anytime and feel at home. I guess you could ask Doug M. how it feels showing up there these days.

Anybody notice how king craiggers spent the whole letter trying to convince his followers that he was being spiritual and not carnal? Then he ends it up by calling em all "employees". I spit my coffee all over the screen.

When you think about it, the whole shootin match was handed to martindale on a silver platter. All he had to do was keep the trains running on time and smile for everybody. Twi was a money maker when he took over the reins. What does he do? Kills the two biggest money making scemes that wierwille dreamed up...ROA & WOW program. Then he demands that people swear a loyalty oath to him. You gotta be kiddin' me! Does this guy get the moron of the decade award or what?

If owning a home eliminates an individual from from coordinating the fellowship, then perhaps twi should sell off all it's property and take to the streets. Or is owning your own property only wrong for the rank and file?

Just curious:

Back in "the day", wierwille used to control wayproductions very closely. He forced musicians with imagination to conform to his strict formula for writing "spiritually correct" music. He stiffled originality, pulled the plug on individuality, and turned what could have been "from the heart" inspirational music into his particular form of nazi propaganda music. It was horrible to say the least.

Who is in control of the form and content today? We know that Mitch Miller is dead. Perhaps some of these "old timers" in wayprod are still following the old wierwille credo of propaganda through controlled content?

To those "leaders" of twi who are reading this:

Have you ever wondered what position you would be holding today with twi if martindale had not run off 90% of the faithful followers, which of course included the most experienced and talented people?

My guess is that you would probably be driving the "honey wagon" at the ROA. ;)-->

A very good question and a lot of good answers.

Let's face it, people are basically "herd" animals. They "need" to belong to some kind of group where they feel they "belong". I think this same inner drive is connected to folks who end up being co-dependant in a relationship.

All through life we see factions gathering themselves into little groups. Fraternities, bowling teams, the Elks club, the Methodist church, etc. It's human nature to want to be part of something that makes you "belong" to something. It becomes unhealthy when a person NEEDS to do this in order to "feel good" about themselves.

Twi took advantage of this inner human condition. Accepting their elitism, arrogance, and "we got all the answers" position came with the package. Instead of a frat jacket, we wore name tags. Instead of a secret handshake, we all babbled incoherant words out of our mouths on cue. Instead of loving people, we used people.

Why did we quit questioning? Probably because we really enjoyed "belonging" to the group. Raising questions only put your membership standing at risk. Once twi convinced a person that an "open mind" was putting you in danger of being swallowed up by a demon, the rest was easy.

In my opinion, the folks with "addictive personalities" have had the hardest time leaving and getting over it. Some of us (in thoses years) "held something back". In other words, I never really "sold out" to twi lock, stock and barrel. I tried to, but there was something inside me that would not allow me to give the allegience that was meant for God to people. No matter how loud numbnuts martinbumb would scream and shout, there was "something" deep inside that said...no deal.

Twi took advantage of this

Hiya Golfie...that was a good quote but it wasn't me who said it. ;)-->

I recall when we gave veepee this "cowboy statue"...it was supposed to be some Remington original sculpture (very expensive) and they made a big deal out of the presentation, making it sound sooooooooooooo prestigious.

This whole idea of "blessing" so-called leaders with gifts was just another example of how the rank and file were to bow down to these great spiritual giants and pay homage. A far cry from the idea of the greatest leader being the greatest servant.

One of Vic's "take my word for it" teachings in the advanced class. I think he just made it up as he went.

Catcup is right on the money (pun intended) with what she has said. I gave those lowlifes more money that I care to think about. The fools ARE the ones who keep feeding this unholy beast with their hard earned money.

I had to find out the truth the hard way. There was no web site like this calling bull.... on these disgusting predators. So for those of you still in, what's your problem? It's not like that bulldyke in newknocksville is holding you spellbound with her ever so charismatic personality and teaching style. C'mon, wake up and take a good whiff. That stench you smell is not the slaughterhouse in Emporia.

If body parts could be enlarged by "believing", then why is martindales brain the size of a walnut?

A fool and their money are soon parted