ckmkeon

Yep it was a nice location, but back to the subject. What went wrong with learning the bible and leaving the Way out of it

CK

where did you go ckm?

I'm Still here

CK

Glad you cleared that up. I had to go back and re-read your threads to remind myself that you, in fact, are not active: you are just taking a position based upon what your parents have told you about VPW and the old TWI.

You have by now figured out that that is a sore spot for many, and that's what they are attempting to convey to you.

Many question the motives of VPW, based upon his behaviour. Many question his teachings, which has been well documented not only by people on Greasespot but other sites as well. Many question his legacy, because of how easily TWI fell apart under LCM, who was his chosen replacement.

Nobody wants to burst your bubble, but this is a place for exploring those things a lot of us believed and stood with for many years. And we were there while it was happening. So, give us the benefit of the doubt and we will do the same for you.

The way I see it LCM was a wrong choice as the next leader of TWI. The only answer I can give is that most christian and other organizations of this sort, most of the time fall apart after the founder dies. But I still believe there is hope for LCM

CK

I didn't vote.

It wasn't a long quote - only two verses. Why does that seem long to you? Hmmmmmm

Your spelling is still atrocious.

Your post(s) are not that cut throat - and you haven't learned when to pick your battles. You come across as someone who is trying to prove himself. Someone who is trying to belong. Someone who is trying to act tough so that everyone will respect him. It didn't work in High School and it won't work here.

There's no spin, there's no lift, there's no real depth.

I don't watch CNN. I think all the media is spin - just which direction do you want to spin it?

The quote you gave with the scriptues and then with the insult makes you a hypocrite. I have decided to pick my battles, since you have nothing informative about the post which is "Which one is the worst leader" I will no longer reply to your post

CK

Socks is right. That would be a long list.

It just doesn't sound right to me.

Ckmkeon, how do you know what the list was of or that there was a list when it was "in behind the table"?

This doesn't jive with what the MySpace young wayfers say. One said M&A was officially dropped a year or so ago and that anyone. YES even you and you, are welcome at a fellowship.

Is that all BS or what?

How did they know your dad was to be checked and not you or anyone else? No Nametage or something?

They brought out a list from behind the table (I could see the list) that said 9th Family Corp and it was about 30 pages long. Then in different compartments in the table they had each corp with a label marked "Mark and Avoid" Everyone is required to sign in at the registration desk where they check all of the names of previous members.

CK

Damn son, doojable makes a mostly friendly post to you, and you turn around and insult her?

She went off topic and that is what happens here in my (topic). You can consider this as a war zone insults back and forth and points being slammed. Although it is not my wish to insult peolpe unless they go off topic. Then I will most of the time insult to get there actual opinion.

CK

So - ckmkeon - What is classic about you? I wonder, why you see it necessary to jab at every individual.

Tell me - how do you choose between the many evils? Then, how do you reconcile it with, "judge not lest ye be judged."????

You find it a bad thing because I won't play your game of quick judgements - or so that is how it seems. Besides, you haven't defined you perameters well. Are they "worse" because they were evil? Because they haven't helped twi very much? Or maybe because they make a nice game for you.

Had you not put the Pope in there, I would have voted that they were all equally bad - even though they were all bad in different ways. I venture to say that a lot of people would have voted the same way.

Oh, and I'm not from Texas - I only live there.

what is it that the Bible says in Proverbs? oh yea:

Ecc 5:2,3

Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon the earth: therefore let thy words be few.

For a dream cometh through the multitude of business: and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

So, no - I will not answer your quiz. You have made it so that it is almost impossible to answer fairly. On top of that, you have proven over and over again that you are not really interested in what people here have to say.

Oh and by the way, if you're going to insult people regularly, you might want to make sure that your own spelling and grammar are impeccable.

Right now I'd say that the person responsible for teaching you how to write did a poor job. But that might just be because you write hastily to get the insult written as quickly as possible - then press "Add Reply" before you proof read.

Now look you just put down this long scripture and already in the same statement you went against it. But why use the old testament we are in the period of grace. Well since you voted we are now discussing each leader and there faults. I have chosen the Pope as the worst leader. He is the most corrupt in my opinion. My post are cut throat and I don't hold back. You can consider this topic and all of my topics and posts to be in the "No spin zone" If you want spin watch CNN

CK

ckmkeon - Do you really want to mimic the awful things that twi became infamous for?

You can say, "They started it." I'll say that you can end it now. Your attitude is making you an easy target for all the ridicule. Basically, you've become and easy mark.

I haven't voted - because I can't seem to choose who's the worst. I only know that I can eliminate the Pope.

No ill intent here - just some friendly advice.

Classic Texan can't make up there mind on choices set up already. Yes I welcome the easy target and ridicule. This does not matter I set my opinions in the fire(GS) for everyone to see. My opinions already have a target I might as well make my points known.

CK

I remember the first time I went to headquarters for a Sunday service. It was in 1975, and docvic had the podium that evening. I never had to submit to a *security search*. Doc didn't read from a page, either.

Did you and your dad have a good time there, CK? (that's what counts).

Shucks -- guess they won't ever let me in again. I don't own a suit.

Yeah it was a nice place and I was glad to go there. It was a very nice "show". It was not a security seach it was a list in behind the table of everyone "marked and avoid" from all different corps

CK

P.S if he would have been on the list they would have asked us to leave

What I can't understand is why we are trying to disect what a man is saying on his death bed. From what I have heard he was on different pain killers like morphine and iodine. There is a chance he did not know what he had said.

CK

That would be your mommy and daddy.

To bad your off your rocker maybe you should look at the top at the choices and decide out of the group who was the worst one or maybe your to chicken to do it. You changed the subject the subject was which one is the worst leader and mommy and daddy aren't a choice. But since were off topic anyway. How about your mom and dad they must have been bad leaders. So you should have chosen them I would have. Now get back to the subject "WHICH ONE IS THE WORST LEADER" AND YOU HAVE A LIST OF CHOICES. FIND ONE OUT OF THE GROUP THAT YOU DID NOT LIKE THE MOST AND TELL US (MOMMY AND DADDY ARE NOT ON THE LIST THEREFORE THEY CANNOT BE CHOSEN) I created this topic to chose a leader in the group who in your opinion was the worst one.

CK

ditto 001!

Well everyone know 001 is a bad leader

CK

Today I went to a TWI teaching service in New Knoxville OH at 3PM. Rev. Ira Berger taught on prosperity. My dad was checked and cleared by security. All of the service was nice the music, the bookstore, and headquaters looked nice also. The first thing was the piano and the organ. Then we sang some tunes out of the song book, and then Ira started teaching. The teaching was all typed on a page and read like a script. It lasted for a hour and a half and everybody was wearing suits. Then everything went fine, we got through the service then walked around and went home. I would have never known anything was wrong with the way just by walking in from the street.

CK

Get back to the topic CK.

Right which one is the worst leader

CK

It's pretty clear to me by his own words that mommy and daddy took away junior's internet privileges.

But was it because of Greasespot, or because he was surfing the conspiracy sites and getting weirder by the minute?

This is your quote not mine I do not know what you are thinking about

CK

Paw and Chas. Well done.

Pay no attention to the young man behind the curtain.

LOL What curtain??

CK

And that's the main point, which you may or may not realize, CK.

We've been there. We know what we are talking about.

Experience has been a harsh teacher to some here.

If we can help you prevent wasting your youth in a dead-end outfit,

(like we did) we'll try.

All you have to do is listen, drop the attitude,

and make an evaluation for yourself (if you really care).

What you choose to do is your business. :)

I will consider the attitude adjustment but I believe we should just agree to disagree. Why say I am wasting my youth? I'm not in "The Way". So how excatly do I waste my youth in a organization which I already believe is bad?? I am just saying I believe the doctrines of VPW not in the TWI today. Dmiller I know what you are trying to do save CK from big bad VPW. It is not going to work

CK

So now the TWI got most of there people in the "out crowd". Did I hear a cash register?? Teens are more emotional?? I haven't noticed.

Mind control OK I stopped the tape who forced anyone to listen to what TWI had to say. It started nice enough but going to mind control it just has to get worst from there. Yes I judged the tape before listening to the whole thing sorry guys

CK

It's pretty clear to me by his own words that mommy and daddy took away junior's internet privileges.

But was it because of Greasespot, or because he was surfing the conspiracy sites and getting weirder by the minute?

I didn't think anything was clear to you, I didn't log on because I was visiting a uncle who was sick. But why do I have to answer to you??

because he was surfing the conspiracy sites and getting weirder by the minute?

What the HELL are you talking about

What conspiracy sites do you think I logged on to?

Before you make stupid remarks about "junior's internet privileges" why don't you get the facts first.

I always try to get back to the topic or post. When I am busy you'll just have to figure it out

CK

Many of us feel bad ckmkeon, because we see ourselves in you.

Young, idealistic, valiant for the truth, laying it all on the line for God. We experienced our youth and vitality taken and used by unscrupulous men who claimed to represent God`s will. ...our trusting hearts vilely betrayed.

You blindly support the people that were in charge of twi .... the leaders that abused us.

They are unworthey of your defense, of your respect.....they took the fruits of our honest labor and used it to fill their bellies.

You are embarked in what you believe is a noble cause.... They depended on youth and exhuberance ... it is what they hide behind ....just like they did us....YOU, like us at one time .... are who the public, the new people will see your integrety and honor .... it will give legitimacy to a flawed doctrine....

I am sad that unbeknownst to you....your good intentions and pure heart are being used to promote an organization and doctrine headed by evil people :(

I almost got a tear..... almost

ck

Then what is the point of your question? Do you know?

What are VPW's leadership qualities, by the way? How do you differentiate between VPW's "leadership" and that of Jim Jones, or David Koresh, or Charlie Manson? I'll grant you, he was not as extreme. But in his own way he used his followers to support a lifestyle which catered to his appetites, egotistical and sexual to name just two. Power and sex, CK, not love - those were the lodestones guiding his compass.

Whatever "good" there was in TWI came in with good people who believed the bible, and believed more as they were taught more. The corruption was at the center, in the name of Victor Paul Wierwille, and as he gained more influence, he perverted the good drawn not by him, or his ministry, but by the false promise of a ministry true to the truth.

Somebody's been filling your trough with hogwash CK. Would that be your mom and dad? Some people, like your sister, can't separate the bible from the Way. Some can't separate it from Wierwille. Same difference, actually.

Ok your either stupid or new let me explain I have said many times I believe the early doctrines of VPW. I have said this many times, why should I read what you have to say?. Therefore I believe that TWI and VPW taught the truth while VPW was alive. That is why I think VPW was a good leader. Since you are not new you must be stupid I have put in different threads throughout GS about my beliefs. Everybody gets it but you why is that

maybe its the 5 year old brain.

CK

Now there's a novel way to chicken out. "I will not have a discussion unless I know your age and birthday!" - ckmckeon - or is it ckmcchicken?

Ya know, you've avoided every question, but I gotta say, I appreciate one thing you said: "One person's hogwash is another person's truth."

You ain't just whistlin' dixie there, CK. Have some more Koolaid.

All I am saying is at least I am truthful

CK

i almost feel sorry for ck

WHY

ck

Somebody's been filling your trough with hogwash CK. Would that be your mom and dad? Some people, like your sister, can't separate the bible from the Way. Some can't separate it from Wierwille. Same difference, actually.

Well I am not going to listen to a 5 year old person (Jan 1 2001). I am 19 I believe what I believe and you can believe who or what you want to believe. One persons hogwash is another persons truth. From what I can tell someone filled your head with "hogwash" that VPW has always been bad.

CK

(P.S at least I put my real birthdate down) <_<

ckmkeon

What are you trying to learn? What is is it about leaders or leadership, or about the list of candidates, which drives your question?

Here's my opinion, such as it is...

If you were ten years older, I'd say you were making a fool of yourself. But at 19, you're only asking, not a foolish question, but a question foolishly, because you haven't really thought about it. You're entitled to be intellectually lazy. It goes with being a know-it-all teen and most of us have been through it, or at least close to it in our Way daze.

At 19, you are clearly a follower, not a leader. A man can't even lead himself, if he can't think straight es to various, ridiculous websites) that you come across as a naive zealot, and nobody can take you seriously, even if you happen to stumble quite accidentally over something true.

By the way, didn't Jesus say the greatest leader was the greatest servant? What do you think he meant by that? What did he mean by servant? I'd be interested in your opinion, if it is actually yours. Do you have any opinions of your own, that you haven't been given by someone else, one way or another?

You know what I think you type way to much this quote of you I made would have been fine. Now my eyes and brain are so "lazy" as you put it, that this thread is putting me to sleep. Yes I have a opinion you read the first thread, the middle thread, and the last thread, because if you would have read everything you would have known my opinion. But I will tell you anyway, TWI was good at one point when VPW was the leader I believe then LCM lost control of "The Way" and that is where they are today. With Rivenbark frozen in fear that is my opinion

CK

testing 1, 2... testing...

I hear you

ck

Who besides me are the other 3 Lutherans that responded to the poll? You can email me or send a private message.Just curious, that's all.

What is a Lutheran??

a person who follows Martin Luther

Is the lutheran church getting closer to the catholic church

and if so what did Luther do

ck