Twinky

Thanks, folks, for continuing to add to the poll votes. It's really interesting that there is a large percentage of people who have been out for over 20 years. One person says he or she is still in and several others haven't been out for too long. Please note for anyone who hasn't voted yet that YOU CAN GIVE MORE THAN ONE RESPONSE TO SOME QUESTIONS (eg what did you do when you left) because people surely did many of those things, concurrently or consecutively). For myself, I don't feel half so alone or weird, knowing that so many of you have been through exactly the same things that I did.

Sorry wrong forum

Sorry wrong forum

Thanks, all, for your replies. I'm obviously in for a longer haul than I had expected. I've had them two weeks and have just started my third course of antibiotics. Tillie bit me badly on the first day (she escaped and I recaptured her; she fought like crazy). There is nothing of Twinkle in my house, she has never been here, and after all this time (8 months) I doubt my furniture smells much of her. I have tried the thing with catnip. Tillie perked up a bit but Tallie is not interested. I offer them kitty treats which are ignored and pushed away. I also tried with some Feliway which is supposed to give off calming scents but they ran away from that. I am not sure if it would be good to separate them and keep them in separate rooms, in case their fear is feeding the other's fear. Would they calm down if separated? (Do I want to risk another infection attempting that? I got them as a pair because the Cats Protection place thought that the slightly less scared one would be good for the terrified one.) Sometimes they huddle up together and sometimes they are at opposite ends of the room. Also I have wondered about borrowing a happy settled female cat from somebody to see if she would settle them. What do you think? Or might the bringing together cause more stress? Or the later separation from a loan "mother" cause more distress? I would hate for them to be cage cats forever or worse, put down; I want them to be whole and happy and able to come and go in my garden whenever they want. But it will be a long time before they are allowed out. Let 'em out now, they would be fox dinner tonight. Or maybe not. Thanks again.

I have just acquired from Cats Protection two 14 month old cats. They are from the same litter. They were born in captivity – their (domesticated) mother was brought in as uncontrollable and gave birth to a litter of 6 a couple of days later. Four of the kittens were re-homed at about 3 months and are nice affectionate cats, but the mother cat viciously protected the remaining two and they have never been handled. Mother has now been re-homed successfully and is a nice affectionate cat. The kittens however are real scaredy-pants. They hide in or under anything they can. One’s favourite place is in a corner behind a cabinet. I can see her (Tillie) but not easily reach her. A radiator hangs on the wall and if I try to touch her she squeezes under it and is almost inaccessible. She is in utter terror if touched. The other (Tallie) is also skittish but a bit more submissive. She lives in or under the sink unit. She can be stroked on her head and back but doesn’t like it and as soon as possible departs the area. She took an entire flight of 14 or more stairs at a single bound the other day, so keen was she to escape being touched. Neither makes any sound and if you look at them they just stare back, completely unblinking, eyes wide. They can stare in terror for 20 mins or more. These animals have never been hurt, injured (except spayed), threatened or maltreated in any way except by their own mother, who has taught them completely irrational fear. I feed them x2 a day and empty their litter trays. It would be nice to have a little more “fellowship” with them. In our mighty history of abuse here at the Café, does anyone have any suggestions of dealing with feline abuse? At the moment, I make sure they know that I know where they are, talk to them (get them used to my voice), touch Tallie if she will let me, and generally try to be non-threatening. But I feel if I don’t handle them they will never get used to it. Suggestions greatly welcomed. (PS Twinkle my other cat who went missing is now resident with my mother, who doesn’t want any more cats because they are too much of a tie. Hahaha. She loves Twinkle too much and was desperately miserable when Twinkle went missing.)

Actually I DID put mine on my CV. I thought about it really carefully and decided my CV looked a bit skinny (especially in the "lost years" after they kicked me out and before I came to my senses). I do believe that's what got me the interview for the job where I am now, with a Christian person in charge of the office. But in between times, he had obviously checked out TWI and before making me the job offer asked what |I thought of The Way now. I think my answer was quite sufficient to convince him I wuldn't be having anything to do with that weird organization any more and he promptly offered me the job. I don't have the paper any more and was told to send it back to HQ which I did. Was that right or wrong? Was so confused then I really didn't know which way was up. I am not sure if it will be going on my next CV.

Welcome back, Man, and who knows, you might meet some new friends too! Glad you "woke up" and now that you are awake, it truly is your choice to believe what you want, and get the benefits/consequences either way. You are welcome here whatever your views. Try starting a thread on "social control" and see what responses you get. Could be interesting.

Yes, and added to which, the class might well be run by WoWs who themselves only took the class last year and may not know much other stuff about the Bible and certainly weren't able to answer questions posed by Christians who had been around (in other churches) for many years. My mum took PFAL and talked with the class coord privately thereafter with some queries. He threw her out. She was a disruptive influence or some such - she's never given me a blow by blow account of their conversation but she dislikes him immensely.

"Model number" !!!!! WD: Thanks for starting this alternative thread.

Rascal: I'm sorry you were ill-treated as a mere spouse-corps wife. You got a double whammy. Partly because you are "only" a woman and partly because you were "only" spouse Corps. Of course it was right you had to leave when your spritually tricked out husband left (you can see my tongue in my cheek, right?) (spit, spit, at that sort of attitude). No women were treated as equal partners in their marriages (or other significant relationships). In this you were (unfortunately) not discriminated against. Everyone, please: Can I remind posters that the purpose of this thread is to consider who comes here to the Cafe and not to debate treatment of spouse Corps. That is a significant point that perhaps should be discussed - maybe someone would like to start another thread? (Mods, feel free to lift some of this thread to start a new one!) Thanks, folks for continuing to vote in the poll. There are some interesting results that I hadn't quite expected.

Now if they'd shown that as a preface to Session 1 of PFAL...

Okay, let's try and keep this on track. For the avoidance of doubt, I see Spouse Corps as Corps. So tick that box. Unless you prefer to tick some other box. It's how you see yourself.

Thank you, "Spouse Corps/child in Family Corps" would have been a good addition. Life could be very unfair for such spouses. There are also horror stories from plenty of WC kids here who were affected by their parents' decisions to enter the WC. Non Corps spouses were encouraged to participate in the program and the spouse was often given a job on staff (usually at the same location but there were times when they would be at separate campuses for a month or two). Around my time in rez (early 90s) came the ban on marrying non-Corps and shortly thereafter BOTH of them were required to repeat the Corps program. If either was deemed not up to standard, they both had to leave. One grad of about WC10 or 12 was in with his spouse and she had suuuch a hard time and they both got asked to leave. She had been a good loyal supporter of her husband but simply couldn't cope with the extreme demands of in rez. A good couple was lost there. (Or maybe, was given the opportunity to get found (wry smile).) I must admit I was a little envious of in rez couples having their own room (oh, some space!!) and the opportunity for a few shreds of normal life. You could be right, especially since the highest ranking is "servant" of all. Maybe I'm showing a little Waybrain... Thanks, all, for your responses, please add your own votes if you have not already done so.

Clearly passionate about Scientology, but what exactly does he believe or his belief achieve except to "wanna help" in some vague undefined way? Looks just like some almighty ego kick to me, "I have the answers". When is the next bus outta here? To anywhere?

Spectrum: Wouldn't you have more respect for a research ministry if it actually DID research and also considered the works of other respected theologians/authors? Allowed those authors credit for what work was used/built on (like JE Stiles)? The reason we were discouraged from reading other authors' work is because we would find out the sources of the "research" already done by TWI. But never mind that: Let's consider their view of fellowship. There are many wonderful Christian people that you can meet every day. Can TWI members "fellowship" with them? No way, those Christian people must be possessed. In his eartly ministry JC didn't demand that people hung around with him all the time. In the post-Pentecost period the early Christians didn't make such a demand, either. In later years TWI has done all it can to restrict who can fellowship with whom. In the prison that is TWI, the phrase "cell group" takes on a whole new dimension. How convenient to disregard scriptures like Rom 12:16-18. I leave you to check these for yourself, since you like research.

Ah, Ex, sure you didn't screw up too badly. Some of the sections allow more than one answer, including, "what you did for TWI" and "what you did after TWI." Thanks for everyone's responses, let's see a few more, please! :) :) :)

Well I don't know if this is quite "personality," but on several occasions I followed the example of what was done by others (one in particular) (being a follower of my local leader, y'know), only to have THAT SAME PERSON come back at me and tell me how much I was off the word. Does that add to mental confuson, or what? He simply loved reaming me (and women generally) for doing things he allowed for himself. Got worse just before THAT SAME PERSON threw me out because I just wasn't good enough for him.

MA Vet! Too funny, T-Bone!! but I don't think I'd join you with your other T shirt unless you changed the wording to "TWI's possessed all the time". Well, even that's not fair. Can I have one that says, "Possession of the Lord Jesus Christ" (since I was purchased by his blood)?

Me too me too me too! Maybe if GSC ever gets closed down like Waydale did we could call ourselves the Marked and Avoided. Or Avoiders.

Thanks, all, for your replies so far. I think if I were to start this again I would add another button, "Did you leave pre- or post-PoP?" but too late for that now. Perhaps that can be considered later. Results so far on 66 votes are that 54% of us have had Corps involvement (though didn't necesarily graduate) and 64% of us have been out for over 15 years, which gives some idea of the insidious nature of TWI teachings. The subtle way of inviting someone to "take a break" as a subterfuge for throwing them out has also been raised in several posts. Whether anyone was received back with open arms after such a break is debatable. (I myself was invited to "take a break" and when I returned after 6 months met even more vile treatment than before. I doubt there was ever any intention to do let me back - it was just someone on a jolly to administer more humiliation.) Well done those of you who "took a break" and made it permanent. I think I'd call that being thrown out, rather than leaving volutarily, but it's whatever you feel is appropriate. Looking forward to more responses. Twinky (edited cos I can't type today, hurt my index finger)

In case anyone thinks I've not voted - I did, but made an amendment to the poll and it won't let me vote again.

Folks, it might be interesting to find out a bit about who comes to the Cafe so if you're willing, let's ask the questions. If I missed out a relevant category, apologies, tick other and tell us about it below.

Echoed. I met some of the most wonderful people and I met some of the most vile people in TWI. "When they were good, they were very very good And when they were bad they were horrid" To plagiarize a nursery rhyme.

That was me. I was a fool. I was completely desolate when they kicked me out. I had no-one and no thing. "Burn your bridges," my CC said. So I did. Homeless, friendless, very little money, no career prospects (had given up a professional career), vilely besmeared by certain people - WTF? I was told to come back in six months, so I went back, grovelling, only to face a barrage of more of the same, in fact, including further false allegations. If I felt gruesome to start with, this magnified it. Caring? Compassion?? (SCREAM!!!!!) It was GSC that opened my eyes to the assault on me as a pattern most often against women. And began to restore some of my crushed self-esteem. The haranguing here frightens me a bit (too reminiscent of old times, still dealing with some aspects of that) but it's great to be able to shrug it off. At least I can take off and not read such threads any more. Please bicker politely!

We all had something that attracted us to TWI. Somebody relayed to me what another Greasespotter had said to her long ago: "TWI was like Miraclegro on our personality faults" or something like that. That just about sums it up. If something is overgrown, it needs pruning. Lovingly. We can learn to prune out our more unpleasant behavior. We can start by pruning some of our posts before we hit the Add Reply button. Would be interesting to consider why it wasn't also Miraclegro on our good bits (well, perhaps it was for some of us, at least in some areas) but everything "negative" was shoved under the carpet. I recall when asking for some help/need - some emotional wrangle I was in, can't remember the details, too long ago - that it was the squeaky wheel that got the attention and we should aim not to be squeaky wheels. Real helpful, that was. Not that the squeak could be oiled, but that we shouldn't be "squeaking" or needy in any way. It does appear under pressure, doesn't it?! Still, enough pressure and all that thinking should eventually be squeezed out. Can't agree with you, Eyes, that you can't get the sponge clean again, just needs lots of washing (with the Word perhaps, but not with Da Verd).