oldiesman

And therefore, we have to throw away everything we were taught in twi, and start over, right? Shaz, let's assume that Wierwille was psychotic. So what? It's virtually meaningless now. It still doesn't change the fact that PFAL and ooodles of other teachings of his and others can be accurately representing the true God. It is quite possible, and lots of folks still believe it.If you want to take each and every jot and tittle of his teachings and examine them to see if they make sense and are true, that's your right and privilege. Go ahead. I am not of the view that just because Wierwille said something, that it must be true, and therefore, is exempt from examination ... On the other hand, if some of his teachings are accepted as truth, I believe they stand alone and are truth alone irrespective of how he lived his life. In that case, he didn't use his best efforts to adhere to the teachings in practice and wasn't the man he knew he should be. But truth is still truth. If you or anyone else comes up with something that makes more sense than the truths we already received, I'm all ears. But saying Wierwille was psychotic is virtually meaningless at this point. Reminds me of something John Lynn said: we are free from Egypt, and "took the gold."

How is everyone defining "worship"? How does one know they are "worshipping" something, as opposed to loving, respecting, etc. etc.?

WHATEVER anyone says about possible idolatry in TWI, goes double, triple, quadruple, for the Roman Catholic church. Whatever evils TWI has done, the RC church beats them 10 times over.

If Boston wins it all, I think the Yanks would be exonerated cause the curse is lifted. If Boston doesn't, the Yanks really really choked, and need a real shake up. Keep these: Matsui Olerud Sheffield Mussina Everyone else should go including Torre, and especially the most overrated player in the game, Alex Rodriguez.

You all know this already but here's how I see it: worship of the bible is like worshipping Jesus, by twi's rationale. There is no difference. The bible is the "written word". Jesus is "the word in the flesh". They are both "the word." TWI always taught that the written word takes the place of the absent Christ. Christ is not here in person, so the bible is here to take his place. We are to respect the bible as treat it as God's Word, just as if Jesus were here speaking it. Doesn't matter who speaks it, it's God's Word. I do think a case can be made that twi worships the bible ... but whether that's idolatry is another matter, since "God and his Word" are one in the same (John 1:1).

Shaz, was Wierwille a psycho? ha ha... I think he was something of an enigma, someone who speaks God's Word, then practices these secret disgusting things behind the scenes. Looks like he walked by the flesh and made a habit out of it, and should have had more control over himself. (sometimes I feel that way about myself too). Maybe there's something to the fact that he had all that power, and nobody to keep him in check? I am reminded of the words of Lord Acton: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I prefer to keep what things already make sense, then if someone comes along with a better or more accurate truth, I go with that. It simply doesn't make sense, to me anyway, for me to throw out what already makes sense, unless something better comes along to replace it.Thanks for your sharing. :)-->

There's no doubt in my mind that Wierwille's evil works caused some folks to get hurt. ... There's no doubt in my mind that Wierwille's good works caused some folks to get help. ...

Raf PLEASE STOP taking twi's side in this. Else you may END UP HERE....

I'd like to know how much mooola they got. ;)-->

Take heed, thou who excuse and deny past evil, thou who still adhere to Wierwilles Doctrine, thou shalt meet the same fate! Hear the sounds of your eternal condemnation! Hear It and Take Heed!

Forever Condemned To Darkness Take heed, thou who dismiss past evil, thou shalt meet the same fate!

Here's where we differ on this Rascal.Here's what I believe: when Wierwille was walking by the flesh, he was walking by the flesh. When he was walking by the spirit, he was walking by the spirit. YOU seem to be of the viewpoint that it was impossible for Wierwille to receive anything from the true God, or communicate anything from the true God, because Wierwille walked by the flesh too much. I do not believe this ... I think this is the same old crap about God not dealing with anyone unclean ... God works with sinners ... if HE didn't, I think we're all in a heap of doo dooo.

Wierwille's sex club and his other sins didn't stop God and his word from moving in twi-1. Yes, my whole family appreciated from those who moved the word in twi-1, along with a whole lot of other folks. The fact that those secret evil things happened doesn't change the blessings that happened, and I'm not going to renounce the blessings of God working in people's lives. Those are factual, historical realities. The fact that you keep bringing the evil up and can't stop doing it, only proves that that's all your concerned about. That's all you care to remember. Rascal you certainly have a right to dwell on whatever you want, just don't expect me to follow your example.

Rascal, if anyone was relaying their personal testimony on these threads, and I called them a liar, then please produce the thread where I directly called anyone a liar while writing personal testimony, and I will publicly apologize. If you can't produce anything, then kindly be quiet.If memory serves, I do remember once that I disbelieved someone who relayed personal testimony, and later apologized because someone stated I wasn't there, so how would I know? Words to that effect. But that's not what we're talking about here, and the fact you should bring something up that's that old, reveals your heart for past trash ... I will apologize to YOU, Rascal, for calling you a false accuser, when you apologize to ME, for various and sundry things, including "attacks on the innocent".

Hi Danny! No, I haven't called many liars about what happened to them! That's ridiculous, how could I call someone a liar about something that happened to them, if I wasn't there?I HAVE called people false accusers, when they falsely accuse me of something. When someone has falsely accused me of something, I guess that does include lying, so yeah, when I am falsely accused, the person doing the false accusing should put away lying, as well. I HAVE said I do not believe everything I read on the internet. Do YOU believe everything you read on the internet? Ya know, perhaps I should just start calling people liars when they type something. After all, that's what I'm being accused of, calling people liars, and maybe I should just do it, so that these folks who are falsely accusing me of calling people liars will get some kicks ...

Words of Wisdom from Brother Johniam

What The Hay, thanks for your posts, you've got wisdom and understanding ... :)-->

Thanks for the support, Johniam and What The Hay. Goey: Goey, to answer your question, my baby is the same as your baby. But, when I make statements similar to saying that I saw and experienced "the baby" in twi-1, that's when I get the most hassles from some people, and responses like: -and- -or- Goey you said in a previous post that twi-1 was rotten to the core. I didn't see that, and what I'm saying is, I, and yes, WE (those I fellowshipped with and saw), got the baby in twi-1. I wasn't the only one there who experienced the baby. I think back and just can't believe that folks I fellowshipped with were just impersonating love, joy, peace, and all those goodies; that they weren't really real. So if you think I'm speaking for others here, yeah, that's what I'm doing, cause I witnessed it. But I do "get it" that some folks experienced horrible things and therefore can't or don't want to remember anything about the goodies, if they experienced them at all. I agree with what GeorgeStGeorges said:

When did I say her personal testimony was false? Her personal testimony is her personal testimony. How can I claim it's false if I wasn't there to witness it for myself? If that's what she said happened to her, that's her testimony that happened to her.I will say that I don't believe everything I read on the internet, that's true. But that's a far cry from calling someone a liar. Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

I never called you or anyone a liar. Produce the quote please. I HAVE called you a false accuser, which is exactly what you are doing right now.

When did I ever write that:(1) in my world it was always all daisies and goodness and light; (2) there were never problems; (3) the experiences of others don't count; (4) others are liars? You are putting words in my mouth, and your namecalling is unnecessary.

Wordwolf, I'm not arguing against it, but I mentioned in a previous statement that I thought the verse was being misapplied by some. I read it in context as a present tense warning to remove those who cause trouble in the church. The way I see it, I get hassled so much because I don't think like some others. Period.Wordwolf, if you read attempts by me to silence personal testimonies, please offer examples of same.

Awwww Rascal, don't feel bad. I'll be ok, really. :)-->

Rascal, speak for yourself please.

Would you then presume you dumped Proverbs a long time ago, because Solomon was a man of the flesh? You know he was a sex addict, no better than Wierwille. He had 700 some odd wives? concubines? whatever. Solomon was a man of the flesh if there ever was one. So then I guess that disqualifies any spiritual workings in his life, according to The Rascal Principle?