oldiesman

OnionEater, I don't understand what the official policy is. Wishing for Freedom said mortgages are not allowed, but now you're saying mortgages are. What's up?

JM, if you do decide to keep going to the fellowships, I'd love to hear what they're teaching, and your thoughts and experiences. It seems some folks who post here see only continuous evil in everything about TWI. But some of us don't. So feel free to share, if you like. If you can't stomach the responses, you can always go private with one of us if you want.

Perhaps. JM, back in my early days of TWI, like the 1970's and 1980's, it was possible for the average "Joe" to just go to a fellowship once a week, and proceed no further if you like. I don't know if that's possible today. From what I've heard, they want more commitment from participants today. But hey, I know exactly what you're talking about. Perhaps you can keep trying it for a while and if you feel too much pressure, back off?One of the early mottos of TWI was that the participant "freely availed" themselves to spiritual nurture and growth. Therefore if you feel you're not "freely availing yourself", perhaps you are being pushed into something you may not want? Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good.

JM, here's what I would do: confront the friend you have been going with, and the coordinator of the meeting, with the things you have apprehensions about. See what they have to say about your thoughts, and see if their response makes sense and satisfies you. I think it all may boil down to this: can you trust them, and are they being really honest with you and care about what you think? Once you get answers to those questions, you may be able to figure this all out for yourself.

At one time I thought his first name was Loyd. What's a Loy?

JustThinking, I don't know about hq because I wasn't there for longer than a ROA to know. But I suspect it was the same there as on the field, cause when VP was in charge, people generally agreed with what he was teaching; after all, we all thought he was so accurate. People who disagreed just left.

Excath I think you nailed it.

Me too, Johniam. Additionally, I still had family members standing with TWI at the time, I'm sure that had some pull as well. But like you, had I known what I do now, in all probability the departing would have been earlier.

Sorry Oakspear, I misunderstood you.From what I've seen, the teachings were pretty uniform when VPW was in charge. Any significant diverse teaching wouldn't have been allowed. But I do believe that at times, things were said that VPW probably wouldn't have approved of if he knew about it, or else he might have said it differently. One example might be how when someone was sick, VPW taught that you don't teach believing to a person when they're sick, but when they're healthy. Now maybe some others were overzealous and didn't follow that.

Stayed Too Long, you wouldn't be talking about Roman Catholicism would ya? Seems all too familiar.

Yes. No.I think VPW is responsible for everything he knew about before 1982. Things he didn't know about, is not his fault. And after ol Craig got installed as President, it was a whole new ballgame. Look at it this way: if George Washington and Ben Franklin were alive today, would they recognize this country as the same one they founded? I think it's similar with VPW and present day TWI.

It's pretty ridiculous that TWI still holds fast to the belief that having a mortgage is somehow off the Word. What stupidity. Like that's any worse than being continously indebted to your landlord?

WhiteDove, I mentioned that on page one of this thread, although not quoting the scripture. As they say, those who have ears to hear, will hear. ...

Who's dismissing it? The verse says that if a condition is met, forgiveness is required.But It does not say that if that condition is not met, forgiveness is prohibited.

I can't speak for Catcup, but I'd like to hear her viewpoint on your question. I don't believe life is so mechanical that one is required to wait for repentence before forgiveness/mercy is administered. Gee, that would be another law I'd have to follow. But what about walking in the spirit... fruit of the spirit is love, joy peace longsuffering gentleness goodness meekness temperance against such there is no law ... Also there may well be a legitimate reason why the person who caused harm is not repenting. they may be preoccupied, unaware, oblivious, blind, cold, hardhearted, or dead. Why do I have to base my ability to forgive and have mercy on someone else? I don't.

Another definition of a troll is a dwarf or giant, in Scandinavian folklore, inhabiting caves or hills.

Good morning folks. Wow this thread got some action over the weekend. I'd like to fly this trial balloon and see how long it takes for it to be sliced and diced and carved into oblivion: Catcup said: Or forgive someone who's dead, and can't make restitution or answer back with "I'm Sorry" when confronted with their evil acts. That doesn't mean VPW didn't do horrible things, what it means is those who consider themselves followers of the Lord should try to see it from the Lord's viewpoint: (note that this is the very same book in the bible that some use as an excuse not to forgive, unless there is repentence first.) Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. how'd ya like to have a website dedicated to your evil acts, relentless accusations about you, for all to see? And ya can't respond ... Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil. Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Mercy is the withholding of merited condemnation. That's was Jesus thinks, what do you think?

To All Who Read This: Happy Weekend!

WOW! look at these early Way Magazines available on ebay: July 1967 Aug/Sept. 1967 December 1967 Jan. 1968 -- Filming of PFAL!

I had to quote this to make sure I wasn't imagining it... am I seeing things? there are others besides me who feel this way? hey what happened to Research Geek?

Belle: You got me curious, what was it that you disagreed with, and what doctrine did they change?

My statement is based upon experience, and common sense. While in TWI, I always got answers to questions. Everytime I wrote a letter to VPW or LCM, I always got a polite answer. Is that what we're talking about here, leaders not responding to questions? if that's the case, then my experience with twi was, I always got polite answers. I have multiple letters to prove it.Now whether those answers agreed with what I personally thought, is another matter. Here's where I rely on experience and common sense. I think that's what we're discussing here, people changing when challenged with something you think is right? I may think a doctrine or a policy is incorrect, and I may be absolutely correct. But whether an organization is going to change simply because I think a doctrine or policy is correct is an entirely different matter. If you've experienced a group that has changed a policy due to your influence, wow, now that's something! I've never experienced that. Most times, more than one voice is needed to change a policy or doctrine, like a consensus of many folks, or committee. The bible speaks of when folks don't listen to you and what to do ... you move on "shake the dust off your feet". You politely excuse yourself. Also remember the verse "if a man be ignorant, let him be ignorant"? I've been rejected many more times then I have been accepted. When we were out wow, we gave folks one or two shots if they wanted to believe with us, then if not, we moved on. Arguing only works up to a certain point, then its time to move on. Do you have a job? What if there's a policy on your job site that you think is wrong, or doesn't make sense, but your bosses think is perfectly ok? you go discuss it with them, and they will politely give you their side of the story, and their decision. You either accept it, or reject it. If you reject it and want to keep the job, you keep your mouth shut and go with the program. If you keep on challenging them, you'll eventually get fired. Such are the way of things.

This is true of every religious body. One may ask questions, but the answers may not be the ones one believes are correct.There's a set of beliefs, and one may question but only up to a point. When the organization will not change, it's time to move on and join another movement to your liking, or in the case of Martin Luther, start your own movement. I'm glad he did!