oldiesman

If some folks would quit focusing endlessly on Wierwille's sins and dirty laundry, maybe the focus wouldn't be on the preacher; but other, more important things.Does focusing on Wierwille's sins magnify the True and Living Way, the Christ?

Who cares? He taught that the Word of God is the Will of God, and ingrained it in lots of us. There's more power and lasting blessing in that one thought than all the nasties you guys love to focus on.

All I can say about this subject is I don't think the way VPW taught it was accurate, or works. Also, he made some comments that look like fear motivation to me. But I prefer to refrain from the personal attacks and leave true judgment up to God, since He knew where VPW's heart was.Regarding controls put on people...I view it as people in large part allowing controls to be placed on themselves, by joining the Corps and believing that decisions made by VPW for them were godly decisions. I suppose folks who thought differently could have easily opted out of the Corps, and many did. Lots of folks chose to not go Corps as well. Regarding the stolen teachings...I've seen instances that VPW plagiarized some sentences. But we all knew back then and now that VPW "learned from men of God scattered across the continent". He got PFAL from a variety of sources...some Leonard, some Stiles, some Bullinger, some from his own study. He "put it together", he adapted it to his own class form and the "interpretation" he thought was the best. I think it was the best at that time, and lots of folks thought the same as me, judging from their years and years in twi. There are many many goodies in PFAL, if you spent a fraction of the time focusing on the truth contained therein then you'd have something other than VPW'S sins to chew on and digest.

I guess it depends. I think he believed what he taught on many issues. What is it that he taught that he didn't believe? how do you come to that conclusion?

I fail to get the significance of this. Paul was talking to Israel, but Romans 10:9 applies to everyone, as well. Would you rather had VPW taught that Romans 10:9 only applies to Israel, and get folks (non Israel) thinking how they can't be saved, because Roman's 10:9 doesn't apply to them specifically? THAT would be lying.

Laleo, this is a good paragraph from you, thanks, and I believe this would also apply to those of us who still think a few good thoughts about VPW and TWI. Thanks.

Thank you, Radar :)-->

Been away for a few days.. wow hey this is a good thread :)--> Evan, to the best of my knowledge, works of the flesh committed by a Christian doesn't disqualify same from walking by the spirit, when they do. If they did, then I suppose the good Christians who post here, some of whom continually engage in hatred, wrath and strife, would be disqualified as well.VPW preached and taught the Word. Not everything was right on but boy he made an impact and taught the bible is truth, and instilled in us solid respect for that Word. Folks who hung around for years, were blessed with twi and proved by their lives and for themselves that TWI was a genuine ministry at one time. Ours (and VPW'S) good godly works were not in vain.

VP preached and taught God's Word, so if you believe the Word is a scam, and patently false, then ol VP was promoting a scam. If not, then I shant not accuse VP of being a scam artist. Paul said someplace that "if in this life only we have our hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." In other words, if the Word is a myth, a fantasy, then we are all in deeeeeep doo doo.

The statement was that he wasn't ever committed to the "ministry of the Word"... In other words, he didn't care about God's word moving and blessing people, all he cared about was building a corporation? That's an insult and evil communication about a decent guy, who did care that folks were blessed. It's like if I said something about your commitment, you a faithful believer for years and years wanting the word to move, but I say all your concerned about was meeting your own needs and didn't care about ANYTHING else. That's a slam. I've heard a couple of instances of extra-marital affairs. NOTHING like what VP is accused of. But the disparagement was questioning Don's commitment to God; not that he wasn't an angel. None of us were (or are) angels. I just saw as strange somebody coming on here having all kinds of nice and understanding things to say about VPW and LCM, but cuts DEW down. Sounds pretty cockeyed to me. Kind of hypocritical too. But thats the way personal vendettas go I suppose.You amaze me too, Belle. I hope we can learn from each other. Hopefull, since Don always struck you as a kind man, does he deserve to be labelled as not having any commitment to the Word, and all he wanted was to build a corporation? How kind a man is that?Thanks for sharing.

Of course HCW slammed him. What do you call that?I wouldn't disparage ANYBODY like that, much less a guy who generally has a good report with folks, and a great report with some folks like me. Sounds like a significant personal vendetta to me. Oh well Don prolly never kissed his butt or something. Otherwise, hi Mike :)-->

Aah. Another Wierwille Worshipper!BUT! A Don Wierwille hater ...It kind of amazes me that someone would come on Greasespot and have nothing at all nice to say about Don Wierwille (who rarely gets criticized), while simultaneously having kindness and understanding toward VPW and LCM. Personal vendetta rant?

Oakspear, I think a bullet in the head would have been justifiable in most jurisdictions. As a matter of fact, I think it can be argued that that would have been the preferred way. It's quick, effective, and gets the job done faster than trying to wrestle with a fierce crazy person.Now if you're Arnold Schwartzenegger, I don't know. If you have the physical training and conditioning to take down a crazy possessed woman, in the act of murder, with your bare hands, you can try if you want. I guess it depends on your physical condition, but I wouldn't bank on it. I'm not a lawyer or a cop, but as far as I know, one may use deadly physical force to prevent a murder. Heck, they'd be a hero.

She really deserved that one too, because of what she did. Since we're talking about violence against women, had Yates been caught perpetrating her murderous act, it would have been legally justifiable for anyone to have killed her right on the spot.

Johniam, I haven't seen that scene in a while, but I remember everyone watching that movie loved it when she got wacked, because of what she did. Good example. ha ha...those were some bada$$ mamas there...

Why not both? He loved and respected VP, and also used him to get to the top. That was LCM's goal for a long time, to be top dog. The real question is why. Was it for God's glory, to genuinely serve the body of Christ? or for his own glory and sating his own ego? Ol Craig has proven the latter, thus far.I sometimes hope he makes a genuine Godly comeback, like Darth Vader.

Looks like he truly did that.

What a shameless personal attack against someone you never met, someone who has done you no harm whatever, and someone who was just trying to do the will of God, like yourself. Bravo Rascal. What a bastion of love and kindness now that you're out of twi. Garth, whatever you choose to call this, I wouldn't call it widespread female gender bias, all across the ministry. Heck 99% of folks didn't even know this stuff was happening. Highlighting a few cases and saying its equal to widespread abuse, is not being fair or accurate with the facts. But that's what happens when one focuses only on the sins of people. You shant hear anything else. Oakspear, others opinions are definitely valid! But blanket false accusations like there was widespread female gender bias in twi, should be challenged. BTW, if what you're saying is really true, that there was widespread female gender abuse in twi, why oh why did you hang around for so long, or even go back? You had the chance at any time to leave, thank you very much. But you hung around, even with all this female abuse going on? and went back later on? Gag me Oakspear. The pot calling the kettle black. And who gives you the freedom in Christ to perpetually engage in bitterness, wrath, anger, malice and evil speaking? My bible says put that stuff away. Oh, but you're straighting folks out on how we Christians ought to think about our brothers and sisters in twi. The pot calling the kettle black. Vickles, there were just as many women in charge as men. Where have you been? I had just as many female coordinators during my stint, as males. IF there were this female gender bias you so love to embrace, why were fems allowed to runs twigs, branches, limbs? Teach classes and coordinate. Twi wouldn't have put women IN CHARGE of things, if they were thought of as inferior, or second class.And now back to your regularly scheduled thread... Simon, I think you'd have a point if folks knew she was capable of murdering her 5 children. But who knew that?

Steve, if I'm suffering from Tunnel Vision, then so are you my friend! What was I "sheltered" from? Perhaps not having to deal with a family who wasn't involved with twi, for years. Since my whole family was involved, it was a blessing. But the "connections" argument doesn't make my experience or opinions any less valid than yours, or anyone elses. Oh and btw, if you asked those of my family who are still alive, if there was widespread female gender abuse, they'd probably say it's preposterous, like I just have. What nonsense.

It's a cybermyth that there was widespread female gender abuse.I wouldn't have been involved in a group/movement for almost 20 years, had there been widespread female abuse in it. That's preposterous.

It's a myth women were victims in twi. Just another myth, from the Victim Mentality Propaganda cyberworld, to brainwash the weakminded into believing that women in twi were/are victims. Like some massive gender bias? Blahah. Balderdash.Except for VP Wierwille and a few others, I think the women in twi were running the show just as much as the men; in the case of the wives, perhaps from behind the scenes instead of upfront. And single women always had lots of ability and powerful functions and positions in twi. They still do. And who's running the show now?

Wow. :)-->