oldiesman

Jehovah's Witnesses not taking blood transfusions is like something I'm talking about. That's an established doctrine, with a written interpretation from the bible, and they all believe that same doctrine. I'd call that JWBrain.

Datway, I'm not picking fights just rendering a thoughtful opinion. Third Aid is something that proves TWI wasn't against doctors and medication. There would have been no third aid if TWI was against doctors and medication. Individual experiences may vary.

Just Thinking, that's definitely Waybrain...

Coolwaters, absolutely I'm serious. I was involved in TWI for 17 years and not once was I ever discouraged from using medication, going to doctors, etc. Do you know of any way books that promote the idea that doctors, medication, etc. should be discouraged?

This is an example of what Waybrain is NOT. For example, substitute this person with a devout Jehovah's Witness. Or how about a devout Roman Catholic? Same deal, only different group names. They would think they're more connected and accurate because of the religious group they're involved in. That's fairly common with religious groups.

What exactly is Waybrain? I'd like to advance the possibility that Waybrain is all (or most) of us all believing the same thing and thinking the same thoughts. Individual experiences vary however. Being advised not to take medication is not necessarily Waybrain, because experiences of others (myself included) may lend credence to having to take medication and there's nothing in Way doctrine that ever prohibited or discouraged medication. If however there's something documented as a standard policy for everyone, then I would think that's fair game to be labelled as Waybrain.

It's available

Wonder, Assuming you believe as many of us who left TWI do, who still think they taught lots of goodies, my recommendation is to consider what Paradiseden said and check out CES or CFF. It all depends on how strong your beliefs are but that's what I would do. I order CES tapes sometimes and know that CFF has some good folks involved there. I would also do what Hope said. Take a year off away from all religion and get a breath of fresh air, if you will. After a year, you may find out what truths you learned in TWI really stuck and what didn't.

Thanks for the info. Evan. I can't believe the closest theatre showing from where I live is in Waterbury Connecticut. I'm going to try to make it this weekend if it works. Has anyone else seen this since last week?

I can't wait to see this. Evan, Does it have any common themes to the other film "Martin Luther" in b/w we saw some years ago? Martin Luther

Rafael, Come on, I didn't think I was namecalling but merely describing what I believe to be a devilish theory. For the record, I think Ex10 who is my sister in Christ is a fine human being, exceptionally bright and of the highest moral standards. You too.

Thomas Heller said: I wholeheartedly agree.

Your accusations do make me cringe. My Spiritual Halitosis counter is jumping off the scale.

P.S. We were taught in TWI about remission and forgiveness of sins. Remission is for the unsaved sinner, forgiveness is for the saved sinner.: I John 1:9 WE WERE NOT TAUGHT "its ok for me to continue in sin and get away with it." That's your morbid, devilishly accusative theory that is arrogantly judgmental and overly condescending.

Rafael and Ex10, The answers to your questions are obvious. Do you care to answer mine:

To Rafael and Ex10, My comments above were directed at what I perceived to be a false accusation, or conclusion, from the above comment, among others. The message of the cross, in TWI, became the reason why we could sin and get away with it? I see that statement as morbid. How can you accuse your brothers and sisters in Christ of being that shallow? I cannot.

P.S. Have you looked at John 10:10 lately? How about Romans 8: 30-37 (KJV):

I think the arrogant position here is the one that automatically assumes that if one believes "because Christ suffered for us, I don't have to", that that means that person says to themselves "its ok for me to continue in sin and get away with it." Where did you get that one from? Who taught that? And why is there so much disdain, disrespect and disparagement for your brothers and sisters in Christ who think that its ok to be identified with the risen Christ and not wanting to tolerate suffering? If E.W. Kenyon is wrong then I'd like to see a better solution than the "sorry you must suffer" mantra of the RC church. "Well, it's just God's will", etc. etc...

Personally I wouldn't call it a shortcut but rather, focusing more on identification with the risen, living Christ: The Wonderful Name of Jesus E.W. Kenyon pp. 62-63

Rafael, It looks like we're still not quite on the same page. The cross symbol and the cross of Christ were two separate things in TWI. There was a complete disconnect. We all know that TWI's position on the wooden/silver/gold cross symbol was one of disdain. We were even taught it wasn't a Christian symbol, from Babylon Mystery Religion. We believed that. Later on in his second book, Woodrow wrote that the cross symbol was godly: The Babylon Connection? Ralph Woodrow page 59. Where I disagree with some posters is the reference that twi's position was one of disrespect and ridicule for the cross of Christ simply because we viewed the cross symbol with disdain. The cross of Christ, in TWI, was separate and distinct from the wooden/silver/gold cross in everyone's mind. The cross symbol was an unchristian pagan symbol not connected with the true meaning of Christ's sacrifice. Do you really think that if the cross symbol, in TWI, meant or equalled or fully symbolized Christ's sacrifice, that we would have looked upon it with disdain and disrespect? No way. Looking back, I agree we shouldn't have made that distinction. But you seem to be saying there is no distinction between the two and in the average Christian's mind, you're right. But you know that we were different and viewed things differently, much like the Jehovah's Witnesses do on certain things.

The cross symbol is not necessarily a godly symbol to everyone, especially us in TWI who were taught its origins. But even so, the idea that TWI should have had respect for and not ridicule the cross symbol is a good debatable point seeing as many Christians respect it and on that point alone I would tend to agree. One must remember when we in TWI saw the wooden/silver/gold cross, no question it was a negative symbol because of what we were taught and believed from Babylon Mystery Religion. The evil history of the Roman Catholic Church also didn't help us view the cross symbol as a godly one. With that said, it doesn't mean the twi position was disrespect for, ridicule for, or ignorance of the cross of Christ, the cross Christ bore, as I've noted from VPW's writings; what it meant was we chose to distinguish the two, something like the Jehovahs Witnesses having disdain for the Christmas holiday yet at the same time believing in the birth of Christ.

Simon of Cyrene and The Cross Christ Bore Another Study in Abundant Living by Victor Paul Wierwille Page 8

I can't wait to see the upcoming Mel Gibson movie "The Passion of Christ".

Hi Danny, Happy Thanksgiving to you and hope you and family are ok. Love, oldies P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to all! Food for Thought: if you don't have a Turkey, it doesn't mean you don't respect Thanksgiving...

Danny, if what you say here is true about organizational structure, then by comparison the Roman Catholic Church, with its divided and subdivided various leadership/overlord/school categories of overlords, are far from exhibiting or reflecting an especial meaning and deep understanding of the cross of Christ. Does institutional Mary Worship enhance the meaning of the cross of Christ? And since they use the wooden/silver cross specifically as a supposed symbol of their faith around their necks, do THEY respect the true cross of Christ by their organizational structure with numerous overlords? If the wooden/silver cross is really symbolic of the true meaning of the cross Christ bore, then they've denigraded it over the centuries by their rotten fruit, and shame on them for wearing that symbol. [This message was edited by oldiesman on November 27, 2003 at 5:52.]