oldiesman

dizzydog is right. it doesn't make any sense to start new threads when there are open questions. i'm still waiting for answers to the PFAL ERRORS thread. thank you.

Bob that's so funny, thanks for the memories.

Bob, yeah that's me alright, 29 years ago... LOL... Geeze to be young again, Valerie thx for the memories. I'd like to find out where Brother Wyda disappeared to, does anyone know? Sorry for the derail but I have to share this story about what kind of a great Christian brother Bob Hansen is: On the Amarillo WOW year I'm driving my wow sister's Opel Manta down the highway, I get in the left lane to pass and get side-swiped by a huge truck. It demolishes the car and the truck disappears. A policeman comes on the scene (a way believer!) and a bit later, my wow sister who owns the car, and Bob Hansen to the rescue. As my WOW sister leers at me with a look of disdain and disgust on the vile peon slimeball who recked her car, Bob surveys the situation, and with razor sharp wisdom says, "well, the devil just tried to kill Phil." He then proceeded to lend us his car, "old blue" which performed admirably for the rest of the year. Bob you got me out of the soup that day and I'll never forget that. Thanks so much. Now back to our regularly scheduled Wierwille-bashing.

Hey Bob, could you send me that pic, I might be in that... oldiesmanpics@aol.com

Linda Z said: I can't say it any better and this reflects my experience as well. Thanks Linda.

Song, I still SIT after all these years and think that was one of the crown jewels of TWI-1. Thankful for J.E. Stiles and Victor Paul Wierwille for the meticulous teaching...

Dmiller, Instead of just giving them away, why not sell them on ebay? There are folks on ebay who would be happy buying them and you'll make some money. However, if you don't want to do that and you won't be persuaded, I'll gladly take them off your hands. LOL... email me if you want at oldiesmanpics@aol.com

I recall what was said at one point was that TWI was not a church, but when they had that tax problem with the state of Ohio, they eventually won in court and proved that TWI was in fact a church. Other than that, I can't imagine why VP would say that TWI wasn't Christian, or TWI despises Christianity. I highly doubt you'll find anything from VP like that around.

Garth, Has nothing to do with the integrity of the Word, but believing something very evil about a person who means something to you and you love. The allegations of VP being a rapist and a serial rapist have been over-the-top for myself and the others I know who never post. Some folks I know don't even believe he committed adultery, let alone raping someone, and think the very allegations are the work of the devil, and most don't want to hear it and consider it unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Try to look at it this way. If someone you loved was accused of being a serial rapist, you'd probably be disturbed about it very much. You'd probably either want to ignore what people are saying, to shield yourself from the allegations, or you'd want to hear everything about it you possibly could, and after hearing it try to make an informed decision based upon what was said. In this thread, I asked the question if there were any other allegations besides the two made of VPW drugging people. I don't think that's a particularly probing or obnoxious question and if someone else wishes to come forth with another allegation, that's their privilege. By the way, I've already spoken about this with John Lynn and asked him this very question, and he was kind of reluctant to get into it with me and he didn't get into many details. He does confirm that VPW had sex with many women, as was stated in The Cult That Snapped. But I get the impression that VP's alleged acts of drugging people is kind of shrouded in mystery and not very clear. And I also find it difficult to envision Howard Allen being complicit in all of this...geeze. Be that as it may, all of this are my thoughts and opinions and I don't mean any harm by expressing myself, and I sincerely hope that my words aren't taken as personal attacks.

In regards to Rev. Liberty's article: Does Ms. Liberty use the bible as her source of authority and truth? Because as far as I know, the bible doesn't give a pass to those who are complicit and initiate adultery and fornication. If I'm wrong, please supply biblical passages to argue the point.

There's a question I've wanted to ask for a while, and since this was brought up, I might as well ask. Are there any other women besides Marsha and Excathedra who claim having first-hand experience of being drugged by Dr. Wierwille? (By being drugged I don't mean just alcohol, but something was put in the drink that prohibited these women from acting responsibly, saying no, etc.)

I do think there's something to be said about the above, especially from those who knew him and didn't experience evil, but good from him. There's a viewpoint that says, "why take personally another person's alleged evil experience, when he did right by me." I think alot of ex-way people fall in this category, and don't feel obligated to jump on the proverbial finger-pointing bandwagon, which may explain why there are so many who don't post. [This message was edited by oldiesman on December 29, 2003 at 6:02.]

I'd say that VPW was in fact an intentional evil-doer. But so is everyone else! It's called sinning. It's called not being perfect. Unless one believe's the last time they sinned, it was accidental? I venture to say that if a Greasepot poster's sins were commented on, ad infinitem, and every sin and bad habit pattern, were encouraged to be brought forth and out in the open on the internet, the way they encourage and bring forth Dr. Wierwille's sins, it wouldn't be a pretty sight. It would be very nasty. It could be very devastating. Check out Matthew 5 and ask yourself if you've been perfect lately, as God is perfect. Matthew 5

Galen, I'm with you, I like PFAL too and thought it was excellent. A few things now stick out like a sore thumb, such as the purported "law of believing" and "Christians Believe The Preposterous"; but other things so overwhelmingly made up for that: Jesus is Lord, Christ in You the Hope of Glory, Salvation by Grace, being sealed with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, etc. I'm very glad TWI (VPW and many others) were around to teach those things.

Outin88, Funny you bring that up because your current belief was VPW's belief when he wrote that on page 9 of Jesus Christ is not God in the introduction. I was surprised reading that, because before that, we were taught that the abundant life meant "life in all of its manifestations", physical, material, spiritual, etc. What a surprise to learn that Dr. was adding a wholly different twist to it. Today, I concur and believe what you believe and what VP wrote in JCING.

Mike, please start a topic and respond one by one to Rafael's "PFAL Errors" list. I've been waiting for your response on those issues, and since you'll be having much more time soon, a response from you on those issues would be appreciated.

Steve thanks for the compliment. Have a great weekend, everyone.

Vickles, No, I'm sure I would've seen it if it were present where I was fellowshipping for all those years. I even made an attempt myself to be a twig coordinator in 1990, and even then I didn't dog people about ABS when the horn was passed around, when cash was collected without qualification. This was in 1990. Ironically, the last twig I went to was about 40 miles away from my house, and the woman running the thing would collect cash and checks for ABS, but wouldn't deposit the stuff until sometimes a month later. Finally one day when my checks weren't getting cashed promptly, I asked her about it, suggesting that she should deposit the money promptly and not sit on it. She didn't take too kindly to that suggestion, and accused ME of legalism (Ha ha). And that was pretty much the last TWI fellowship I attended. I think we've all had our share of wierd experiences, but I think I'm correct in saying that the true anal-retentive legalism of TWI-2 started in the early 1990's and beyond.

Yes I think TWI-1 is the late 70's and prior to that...

CW, I was in the TWI-1 that wasn't restrictive and/or anal retentive at all. Good leadership who loved folks and just wanted God's will to prevail in people's lives. Even tithing/ABS wasn't micromanaged...those were the days when you were allowed to give cash...

Lightside, I'd like to read it if anyone has it, or if it's contents can be posted it would be appreciated.

Mike, thanks for mentioning this incident.

Watered Garden, thx for mentioning something nice about the Medical WOWs. I shant hesitate to add that they weren't the only good folks around. Lots of folks weren't mind-controlled morons. Individual experiences may vary.

Coolwaters, I didn't suggest your experience was invalid, just not necessarily indicative of Waybrain. There's nothing personal here. But I would say you heard some pretty strange things that's not necessarily attributable to twi policy. You also said Dr. Wierwille said that diabetes was caused by a devil spirit? That's a new one on me.

Datway, if this was a TWI-2 custom, then it came after I left. When I was around, the homeowners I knew were happy to remain as homeowners. On the other hand if you wanted to go in the Corps you had to get out of debt, but is that really Waybrain? A requirement of the Corps maybe...