oldiesman

Ex10, you didn't miss it, in fact you were there to witness it. He led (or was a major part of a movement that led) thousands of folks to a more accurate knowledge of the bible, folks who might not have been reached otherwise. No question in my mind that's a huge accomplishment.

P.S. VPW got all or most of his stuff from men of God scattered across the continent. So then if most of what he taught was erroneous and self-serving, would it be fair to say these men whom he got these biblical truths from were erroneous and self-serving as well?

Goey, I don't mind changing my thinking on things if what I am believing is error. In fact, I welcome it. However, I want to be very sure that I don't change my thinking and throw out biblical truths, simply because of Wierwille's walk (or lack of walking) in these truths in Christ. Truth should stand by itself, whether or not VPW lived up to it. Just an observation on my part: it's too bad some folks now disbelieve almost everything we learned in TWI because of disenchantment and disappointment with men's walks.

I think this logic makes some sense. Saul was a murderer. Can you imagine if there were a Greasespot Cafe of the First Century? Folks would be posting on it how much of a creep Saul was for murdering beloved family members. Now there are those who would point out all the good Saul (also called Paul) has done....but like the sins of Wierwille it brings little solace to those who have been affected by the evil. In that sense, who cares whether he's repented or not, the damage is done, the dirty deeds are a historical fact. So I think you can believe God's Word, even though it may have come from, or was expounded by, sinners and malefactors.

Actually, the thought of paying the tithe to insure protection from God came first from Dr. Wierwille, in Christians Should Be Prosperous. Here are some notable quotes: As long as the people tithed, they prospered in everything. When they withheld their tithe or tried to substitute second-rate offerings, when they became stingy with God and refused their rightful offerings to Him, they became afflicted, oppressed, diseased and defeated. Whatever our life's calling may be, we can prosper only as we return to God at least a tithe of all our increase. Then we have His divine protection as well as His manifold blessings. Tithing is our minimum financial insurance, health and accident insurance. Malachi 3:11 is not only for the farmer. The devourer for your sake will be rebuked too; he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground, nor will he destroy anything else if you will stand on God's promise and claim it by saying, "In the name of Jesus Christ I claim these blessings, I claim this prosperity, I claim this goodness." You claim it with your mouth by believing it in your heart. Don't pray for prosperity if you don't tithe.Concerning the last quote, I believe everything works that VP said except the last sentence.

Have a nice weekend, everyone.

Yes, you're taking this too far... Do you have a Type A personality? Relax...

Why must it be run by TWI, why not run by the Wierwille's themselves? I would contribute to that, sure.

Rascal, you have a way about your writing that is very accusatory. As you may recall, I was commenting on Ginger's post about victim mentality and I conferred with her that it existed, then quoted something from Naomi Judd. You're taking this way too far. I'm just expressing an opinion. If there is such a thing as victim mentality and being a wound addict, and it doesn't apply to you, FANTASTIC! I'm very glad.

Oaks, had the statement been "I complied through fear", it would have been saying that that person, speaking for herself, complied through fear. By saying "we", it infers that all of us, every one of us, not just that person, complied through fear. That statement does not apply to me, at least not to any great extent, which was why I spoke up. Perhaps if folks would just relay their own experiences and not speak for others, we'd all understand each other better? I don't need folks to try to psycho-analyze what I experienced...I know myself what I experienced.

On second thought Tom, please keep quiet, ok? Perhaps you should take a break from Greasespot?...I will feel a whole lot better if you do. lol...

Tom, so then I should just be quiet when somebody says "we complied through fear ... " etc.? It's not a true statement from my viewpoint and doesn't apply to me, so should I just be quiet? That's what you're asking me to do. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but again state my viewpoint that I think the open exchange of ideas is best for everyone. What happens if, when somebody says something I don't like, I ask them to be quiet? lol...

Tom, like everyone else, I have significant time invested in TWI, and I'd like to continue to express my viewpoint about it. That's the best answer I can give you at this time.

Rascal, I view "spitting out the bones" as a good thing; you view it as a bad thing. Our experiences with TWI were so very different that I don't know if we'll ever have agreement whether TWI was a godly organization or a devilish organization. To be fair, I think it was both at the same time.

I think this is where they blow it. They should just offer the class to interested believers who have completed the other class requirements, like it was in TWI-1.

Zix, I'm not sure how more circumspectly i could express myself on this thread, except to just be quiet.

The open exchange of ideas is what Greasespot is all about. Sometimes things are said that cut into my heart like a knife, as well. But that's all part of participating in a public forum. No viewpoints are immune from scrutiny and examination. If that changes, I'm sure Pawtucket will let us know.

Abigail said: In other words, I should just be quiet and not express my viewpoint? OF COURSE it's up to others decisions. ALL I AM DOING is expressing a point of view.

Again, I think being manipulated by TWI, if one views it as such, is one's own perspective of how they viewed it then, and how they view it now. I don't think I ever allowed myself to be manipulated, at least to any great extent, and there's lots of folks like me. Here's what John Lynn said, which I tend to agree with:

I think this is too general a statement for everyone. Personally, for me, it doesn't apply. Experiences vary.

At one time, you could have been missing twig for months, and still attend the Advanced Class. No more.

I'm so glad I was never a part of TWI-2.

Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept [them]. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Mal 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation.

"Christians Believe The Preposterous" but, in fairness I'll say that when I was involved in TWI-1, folks had the option not to tithe and still be around and get blessed. That happened to me for years.

Insurgent, I thought they changed and now don't bother folks who buy cars and houses?