waysider

Pond----------Thank you for responding to my post. As I stated, I neither condemn nor condone this line of thinking . I merely present it as an expository discourse. I might further add that we were sworn to an oath to never expose what I just exposed. This oath taking was done in what appeared to be a lighthearted spoof of pagan ritual, but one has to wonder how serious the expectations of secrecy may have been. Early on in the growth of TWI we were taught that revelation regarding the present could never ( and I emphasize never) contradict what had already been established in the scriptures. This , of course, was revised by the concept that revelation could change even though the scriptural evidence was weak and selective at best. I'm sure this seems like it is off topic from the discussion on mental illness but hopefully it may be found to be enlightening on what was taught on the subject.

Pond--------sorry. I left out some vital pieces of info. You asked how someone would know of the presenceof such spirits. This would be by operation of the manifestation of "discerning of spirits" wherein GOD tells you directly that a person has a spirit or spirits. Word of knowledge and word of wisdom would then come into play as GOD's way of instructing the "discerner" what if any thing should be done to correct the situation.(ie. casting out the spirits in the name of Jesus Christ). Compare this with VPW's own walk and demise and perhaps it will become apparent why some of these issues seem to be such a really huge subject of controversy.

Pond---------- please forgive me if I seem to oversimplify my explanation of devil spirits. TWI used a progresive, building block approach to teaching this subject. Furthermore I am not suggesting you accept what I am presenting or that I personally subscribe to these beliefs. -------In the very beginning, Lucifer sat at GOD's right hand as his second in command. He plotted to overthrow GOD with the help of a group of angels he had won over to his cause. GOD was wise to the plan and cast him out of heaven along with his co-conspirators( 1/3 of the angels in heaven ) . They now roam the earth and seek physical entities to inhabit so they can act in a manner that will usurp GOD's glory and seek to take credit for good works(angels of light). These spirits are organized in a military fashion.(5 star general down to pfc. sort of thing.) TWI taught ,at least when I was involved that these spirit "possesions" or infestations if you prefer explained such things as cancer, suicide, alcoholism, sexual deviation,etc. They also taught these spirits explained such things as virtuousity in the art fields such as child piano prodigies. This is a tremendously oversimplified explanation but will hopefully begin to give some insight into the subject. Mental illness was one example of what they considered to be devil spirit possesion or infestation if you prefer. It puts a tremendous amount of guilt on someone who wants to serve GOD to think they may somehow be glorifying the devil.

Just to clarify. -----------Depression is not necssarily about " feeling sad". Depression manifests itself very differently in adults than it does in children. There are even more differences when discussing boys as opposed to girls. Two recommended books on understanding depression in children are : REAL BOYS by Wm. Pollack, Ph.D.(re: boys) and REVIVING OPHELIA by Mary Pipher,Ph.D.(re: girls) These not only show why a boy may display anger or a girl may lack self esteem, they offer insight into how to be a part of the solution.

I've heard peole say GIGO means " garbage in/garbage out", but now I'm starting to think it might mean"glad I got out".

Pond--------I agree with you that there are those who would benifit most from counselling. These people include those whose conditions are caused by a tangible problem with their situation such as poverty, loss of a loved one, etc. Counselling can often show these people methods to cope or even to actually change their situations. There are also those who are over medicated or incorrectly medicated. Medicine, despite popular belief, is really not as precise a science as we would like to believe. As to your statement that medications only treat the symptoms and not the cause I must disagree in part. Some problems that manifest themselves in the mental arena are caused by organic irregularities. These simply can not entirely be dealt with by virtue of counselling anymore than a diabetic could be counseled into producing the correct amount of insulin. As to the issue of testing, no doc. worth his/her salt would blindly prescribe such meds without proper medical testing. True, there is no test that definatively shows which chemical is lacking or abundant in the brain. There is likewise no test that will show exactly what went " haywire" in the brain for it to mis interpret how much insulin the body needs. If there were it would make treatment much more effective and less unpleasant. There is room for both approaches but knowing how to administer them is sometimes as much an art as it is a science.

Let the day take the shape it wants to take and drink it all in. It's the first step of a very exciting journey.

I was just a "twiggy" by the time this happened. I remember answering the phone and hearing the voice explain an announcement was about to be read. The voice then said " When I finish reading I will hang up".In all the years since I never could get an answer to what happened or how he died. It was a subject that was off limits at the grassroots level. I had my suspicions but never really knew until I read it on Greasespot. This wasn't just another tragic cancer death, nor was it just the death of a respected leader. It was a death that completely unraveled what we had been taught about spirtuality. By his own teaching we were taught cancer was possesion. So then I begin to wonder; were we taught by someone who was possesed?Or even worse, if he was wrong about the posession what else was he wrong about? What did this all mean about the credability of beliefs that were now a part of who I had become? Well, many of those types of questions have since been answered for me. Maybe I should use this as fodder for a"3x5" but I wouldn't want to leave anyone out.

"KEEP ON TRUCKIN'!!"

Maybe if we started refering to them as "briefings" and "de-briefings" it would all make more sense. Not justify them,mind you, just add a touch of reality.

Many years ago a childhood friend was diagnosed with schizophrenia. He did not have two personalities or display violent behaviour as so often depicted on TV and in the movies. He simply lost touch with what was real and valid in his life. He was a gentle, caring, and artistic person. He had a flare for turning a phrase that was to be envied. He was an outpatient and was given very heavy meds that included melaril and thorazine. I took him to twig afew times but he said it wasn't his cup of tea. One night I found him slumped over the wheel of his parked car. Beside him was a note that said he had learned something about himself he could not live with. I never finished reading the entire note because at that moment a patrol car was passing by and I flagged it down. His father asked me to be a pall bearer and of course I obliged. When I left the cemetary I got into my car and drove for nearly 3 hours to be a student in DWA ( wayspeak for Dealing With The Adversary). The class did nothing to address the emotions I was feeling other than to teach me to cast them off and replace them with scriptures. I never felt guilty for his death. I had been a good friend as best I knew. The only guilt I ever felt was when I wondered if GOD hadn't led me to his car to raise him back up. It may sound like a bizzare thought in retrospect but at that time we thought we could do virtually anything if GOD just gave us the "go ahead". What's my point? It's great if you can somehow understand what is going through that persons mind but even better if you can love them for who they are. That's what GOD does for all of us . He loves us for who we are,warts and all.

Anyone remember that joke about playing a country song backwards? Something about your wife coming BACK to you,etc?

Rachel----- My apologies for such a poorly worded post. When I said "for you to be so ----etc., I should have said "for ONE to be so------etc. This is truly some interesting subject matter and I hope your observation stirs some enlightening responses. OK. all out of time. The bell just rang for English class.--------

Sky King had a plane?----------I was too busy crushin' on Penny to notice. ( Please don't tell Annette Funny Cello)

Rachel--------- Sounds like some really interesting stuff to look into . Kinda demonstates human nature for you to be so wrapped up in one's own words and voice that we ignore what the other person is saying. Looking forward to seeing where this all leads.

Just curious.--------Did they factor in "The Trumpet OF The LORD"? -----OH sorry, I meant to post this on the music thread. My bad.

Hullabaloo------Shindig(Host: Bobby Sherman?)--------Sadly most of those shows have been lost forever because it was common practise to record over previous shows in the name of economics. Kind of like when we recorded a disco album over the top of "The Allman Brothers Live at the Filmore" so we could reuse a 27 cent cassette tape. SIGH!

Clammy--------A little boy talked to GOD one day.---"GOD how much is a million dollars?"----Well son, to me it's like a penny.---"GOD how long is eternity?"-------Well son, to me it's just a minute.-----"GOD can I have a penny?" SURE son, just a minute.------------GOD doesn't give a rat's patutti about green paper. He can return it to you " Pressed down, shaken together, and -------well, you know the rest.

OUTTHERE-------I wasn't sure if your request for $$$ info was directed toward me. I hit the highlights on post #10. The only actual $$$ amount that comes to mind is $6/wk. for MANNA. It seems pretty silly now but I think I only made about $2/hr. at my "9-5". I do recall once calculating the rent on 8 townhouses against the general fund paid by 50 people and being astonished by the overpayment.There was rarely much left for anything other than the laundromat and lunches which we had to buy ourselves, as well as gas for the car. (35--45 cents a gallon?) ---A bit of humour in the mix: MANNA coordinators always seemed to be female so we called them ( informally, of course) MANNA MOMMA'S--Ain't nothin' in the world tastier than homemade familia made in 100 lb. batches. YUM YUM!!

HEY SMOKEY!-----from the posts I've seen here today, it sounds like you've got a real keeper stateside. ( ok it's a derail, so bring me up on charges.) I think it's great she's reading PFAL. May be now she will stop saying "it's all Greek to me " when you make references to TWI and PFAL.

Hi Medic's Wife.-----Welcome aboard !----- I think it is a good thing you are studying the PFAL materials. In doing so you will gain tremendous insite into the hearts of posters and more importantly , the heart of Medic. IT is true there are many dark clouds hovering over TWI and much controversy over the PFAL class. GOD is much bigger than TWI, the PFAL class, or any other religious organization or class. Though I am not defending TWI or PFAL, there are some wonderful things you can take away from the class if the desire is in your heart. GOD can enlighten the eyes of your understanding but don't forget that old addage," Can't see the forest for the trees". There must be SOMETHING worthwhile in it or we wouldn't all be here.----------"Ladies and gentlemen, we are about to encounter some turbulance. Please fasten your seatbelts---------

Coolchef--------You really nailed it for me when you pointed to 1.)love and 2.) good people . I am not the only one in my family to have been involved with TWI, simply the first. When I first saw things i thought were not right I was concerned and reluctant to discuss them with my family. Here is where the fear comes in. They thought of me as sort of a trailblazer and I wasn't really sure my suspicions were any more than just that. I feared they might feel the trail I had "pioneered" for them was not as it seemed. I think the fear of disappointing them definately affected decisions I made. To go home and admit you may have been wrong would have been tough because it somehow says they were wrong to listen to you in the first place.Today, when I apologize to them for getting them involved, They almost invariably tell me they are thankful their involvement introduced them to so many wonderful, loving people. Many of them became lifelong friends.--------The Best of Times?"--------I don't think you will find it on a calender or a clock because they seem to freeze time in one place. " The Best of Times" are the times we stop to reflect on GOD's love and great friends we have met and are continuing to meet ( And yes that includes the ones who live in cyberville)

By JOVE, I think I need another clue.

FREE AT LAST---------- "how long was the FL program?"---- It was a two year commitment. One of the unique features was that first year and second year were not segregated. The first house I was in was 4 first year men with a second year married couple. Some limb staff aso lived in FL housing. Mainly it was 6 men to a townhouse or 6 women . The only coed aspect was when marrieds lived with singles or other married couples . My second year, families with children were added to the mix though children were not required to participate at the same level of intensity as adults. RE: phones --- they were permitted but they were very expensive and virtually every call would be long distance. With 6 people in a home, you can imagine how that could get out of hand. Add to that the possability you could be moved to another home on a moments notice and the phone point became moot. The only payphone available,albeit still "long distance" was at the nearby truckstop, called (you guessed it) WAYSIDE TRUCK STOP.-----GROUCHO------I agree with you that the lack of any real academics was a vast disappointment.-------But on the bright side: I got an ambiguously sounding handle from it. No wait! Did I say that was the "bright" side?

CA DREAMING-------GENEVA RED------Yes indeed!----- Prove positive that the Mississipi saxophone ain't gender biased. -----Another very cool lady harper to check out if she comes your way is "Little" Annie Raines. Very warm tone, and big thick sound. Works out of Boston with Paul Rishell as aduo and has done work for Susan Tedeschi.